getluv
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:49 am

Ishrion wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
BNE-SFO eff 9 February 2020 - 3x weekly
BNE-ORD eff 20 April 2020 - 4x weekly


QANTAS FLIGHTS FROM BRISBANE TO CHICAGO AND SAN FRANCISCO OPEN FOR BUSINESS
https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... -business/



Interesting, February? Wasn’t it originally April? Anyways, congrats to Qantas!


QF said "by April 2020."
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eamondzhang
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:45 am

mercure1 wrote:
BNE-SFO eff 9 February 2020 - 3x weekly
BNE-ORD eff 20 April 2020 - 4x weekly


QANTAS FLIGHTS FROM BRISBANE TO CHICAGO AND SAN FRANCISCO OPEN FOR BUSINESS
https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... -business/

QF also announced they upped BNE-LAX to 13x weekly between Jan/Feb 2020 in the same press release.

Sounds like they make good use of the first new delivery (after the two for SFO-SYD route) before receiving a second one for SFO/ORD rotation.

Michael
 
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LAXintl
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:00 pm

AA VP Vasu Raja says look for an announcement in Q4 - likely in October regarding South Pacific flying

We’re working through both new routes, schedule timing changes on some of the routes we’ve got, flying longer seasons, any number of those things. So we’re in the final stages of doing our planning but also Qantas is planning at the same time. And so we anticipate in the not distant future, definitely in the fourth quarter, most likely in October we’ll have news there.

https://viewfromthewing.com/2019/09/24/ ... ext-month/
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FSDan
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:18 pm

LAXintl wrote:
AA VP Vasu Raja says look for an announcement in Q4 - likely in October regarding South Pacific flying

We’re working through both new routes, schedule timing changes on some of the routes we’ve got, flying longer seasons, any number of those things. So we’re in the final stages of doing our planning but also Qantas is planning at the same time. And so we anticipate in the not distant future, definitely in the fourth quarter, most likely in October we’ll have news there.

https://viewfromthewing.com/2019/09/24/ ... ext-month/


"Flying longer seasons" can really only apply to LAX-AKL, as their other existing route LAX-SYD is already year round. I'm assuming changing schedule timing would apply to LAX-SYD, although I'm not sure what adjustment they'd be looking to make there other than perhaps separating the SYD-LAX leg from QF's morning departure and early morning arrival by moving it to an evening departure with afternoon arrival at LAX. That would require the aircraft to spend quite a while on the ground at SYD, but could be attractive if it opens up better connectivity (e.g. to eastbound redeyes) at LAX.
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:28 pm

Flying AKL longer season seems like an obvious change. Actually surprised they cant make it year-round with QF helping sales on the NZ end.

Suppose JV will allow QF/AA to better align their LAX-Australia flying also maximize connections at LAX and offer wider schedule options. For instance, maybe bring back daytime LAX-SYD or offer evening SYD-LAX departure. Today the flying is largely on top of each other.
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chepos
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:45 pm

If MEL supposedly gets added it will be interesting to see if it is a seasonal addition or a year round flight.


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LAXintl
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:17 pm

janders wrote:
Flying AKL longer season seems like an obvious change. Actually surprised they cant make it year-round with QF helping sales on the NZ end.

Suppose JV will allow QF/AA to better align their LAX-Australia flying also maximize connections at LAX and offer wider schedule options. For instance, maybe bring back daytime LAX-SYD or offer evening SYD-LAX departure. Today the flying is largely on top of each other.


Yes the daytime (noonish) LAX departure, and an evening SYD departure would be appreciated by myself.
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jasoncrh
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:10 pm

Qantas has a very weak sales presence in New Zealand. They're not nearly as strong as people think they are. What makes AA work in New Zealand/ what will make it work is the strength of demand coming frm the United States market. AA has a strong sales presence in the US (obviously) and depends on the US market to New Zealand. That market wants to go to New Zealand during the time the flight operates. They may be able to extend a month or two either direction, but few Americans (not enough) want to go to New Zealand in the depths of the New Zealand winter. I dont expect AA to go year round, and know that QF doesnt have the strength to make it work.
United barely keeps, and this is their first time flying it, their flight from SFO to AKL year round. This is the first year it's flown year round - tbd whether it will next year. The fact that United, backed by the full weight of Air New Zealand, can barely make a flight work year round should tell you all you need to know about the supposed help that a non-local/native carrier (Qantas) can provide its partner, AA, on flights to/ from New Zealand outside the Northern winter/ Southern summer high season.

LAXintl wrote:
janders wrote:
Flying AKL longer season seems like an obvious change. Actually surprised they cant make it year-round with QF helping sales on the NZ end.

Suppose JV will allow QF/AA to better align their LAX-Australia flying also maximize connections at LAX and offer wider schedule options. For instance, maybe bring back daytime LAX-SYD or offer evening SYD-LAX departure. Today the flying is largely on top of each other.


Yes the daytime (noonish) LAX departure, and an evening SYD departure would be appreciated by myself.
 
Sydscott
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:29 pm

jasoncrh wrote:
Qantas has a very weak sales presence in New Zealand. They're not nearly as strong as people think they are. What makes AA work in New Zealand/ what will make it work is the strength of demand coming frm the United States market. AA has a strong sales presence in the US (obviously) and depends on the US market to New Zealand. That market wants to go to New Zealand during the time the flight operates. They may be able to extend a month or two either direction, but few Americans (not enough) want to go to New Zealand in the depths of the New Zealand winter. I dont expect AA to go year round, and know that QF doesnt have the strength to make it work.
United barely keeps, and this is their first time flying it, their flight from SFO to AKL year round. This is the first year it's flown year round - tbd whether it will next year. The fact that United, backed by the full weight of Air New Zealand, can barely make a flight work year round should tell you all you need to know about the supposed help that a non-local/native carrier (Qantas) can provide its partner, AA, on flights to/ from New Zealand outside the Northern winter/ Southern summer high season.


LOL yeah because all of the Qantas and Jetstar International flights, along with the Jetstar Domestic flights and all of the QF codeshare services out of New Zealand point to a weak sales presence in New Zealand. Pull the other one. UA "barely keeps" their services going because their Partner, NZ, in which they are in an immunised alliance, flies multiple daily services into United hubs. So they notion that UA's point of sale presence in the US isn't helping to keep all of those NZ flights going, which UA also profits from, is just as laughable.
 
jasoncrh
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:46 pm

Your statements indicate that you don’t know how these alliances work, and that you have no clue regarding qantas’s weakness in NZ. For air New Zealand/ UA, NZ should have every incentive to Gil up a ua flight from NZ to the USA alll year. Just as ua has the incentive in the US to fill up NZ-operated flights. Demand simply shrivels up in the northern
Summer, so not even with the power of two large airlines in both markets can they make it work.

The majority of people on Qantas flights between NZ and Australia are Australians. From Australia. They carry relatively fewer kiwis, as there Are simply fewer of them. Qantas is weak in New Zealand as they’re mostly selling to Australians going to and from New Zealand. Not kiwis. Meanwhile, budget conscious kiwis flying cheap domestic flights aren’t exactly the high yield customers AA would need to suppport a year round service to lax.
Look beyond skin deep for analysis. That’s where you see the truth.
Sydscott wrote:
jasoncrh wrote:
Qantas has a very weak sales presence in New Zealand. They're not nearly as strong as people think they are. What makes AA work in New Zealand/ what will make it work is the strength of demand coming frm the United States market. AA has a strong sales presence in the US (obviously) and depends on the US market to New Zealand. That market wants to go to New Zealand during the time the flight operates. They may be able to extend a month or two either direction, but few Americans (not enough) want to go to New Zealand in the depths of the New Zealand winter. I dont expect AA to go year round, and know that QF doesnt have the strength to make it work.
United barely keeps, and this is their first time flying it, their flight from SFO to AKL year round. This is the first year it's flown year round - tbd whether it will next year. The fact that United, backed by the full weight of Air New Zealand, can barely make a flight work year round should tell you all you need to know about the supposed help that a non-local/native carrier (Qantas) can provide its partner, AA, on flights to/ from New Zealand outside the Northern winter/ Southern summer high season.


LOL yeah because all of the Qantas and Jetstar International flights, along with the Jetstar Domestic flights and all of the QF codeshare services out of New Zealand point to a weak sales presence in New Zealand. Pull the other one. UA "barely keeps" their services going because their Partner, NZ, in which they are in an immunised alliance, flies multiple daily services into United hubs. So they notion that UA's point of sale presence in the US isn't helping to keep all of those NZ flights going, which UA also profits from, is just as laughable.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:38 am

Sorry, you are just wrong. For a start Qantas has a relatively large number of New Zealanf based Frequent Flyer members. Moreover they sell a lot of international connections ex-New Zealand off their Trans Tasman flights. Of course they have a smaller presence than NZ, that goes without saying, but you make it sound like no Kiwi has ever flown Qantas. That is categorically false.
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jasoncrh
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:00 am

I’m saying that the New Zealand market is small, which it is. And that there’s only so much capacity it can take. Qantas and its peers are structurally disadvantaged compared to the stronger and larger air New Zealand in the NZ market. Anybody from nZ who is connecting in Australia to fly to the us is a low yield flyer who will trade inconvenience for a cheaper fare. They’re not the type of flyer who will support a high cost operation such as AA. Sorry

quote="RyanairGuru"]Sorry, you are just wrong. For a start Qantas has a relatively large number of New Zealanf based Frequent Flyer members. Moreover they sell a lot of international connections ex-New Zealand off their Trans Tasman flights. Of course they have a smaller presence than NZ, that goes without saying, but you make it sound like no Kiwi has ever flown Qantas. That is categorically false.[/quote]
 
jasoncrh
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:16 am

New Zealand is SMALL.l the population is only 4.8 MILLION. That’s simply SMALL. Simply not enough people to support anything more than Air New Zealand. Qantas is but a bit player, flying low fare low yield passengers, in what is already a small market. Sorry.

quote="RyanairGuru"]Sorry, you are just wrong. For a start Qantas has a relatively large number of New Zealanf based Frequent Flyer members. Moreover they sell a lot of international connections ex-New Zealand off their Trans Tasman flights. Of course they have a smaller presence than NZ, that goes without saying, but you make it sound like no Kiwi has ever flown Qantas. That is categorically false.[/quote]
 
Sydscott
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:26 am

jasoncrh wrote:
I’m saying that the New Zealand market is small, which it is. And that there’s only so much capacity it can take. Qantas and its peers are structurally disadvantaged compared to the stronger and larger air New Zealand in the NZ market. Anybody from nZ who is connecting in Australia to fly to the us is a low yield flyer who will trade inconvenience for a cheaper fare. They’re not the type of flyer who will support a high cost operation such as AA. Sorry


In your opinion. Because that's just what it is, an opinion because you have no facts whatsoever to back up what you say, just assertions.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:37 am

Sydscott wrote:
jasoncrh wrote:
I’m saying that the New Zealand market is small, which it is. And that there’s only so much capacity it can take. Qantas and its peers are structurally disadvantaged compared to the stronger and larger air New Zealand in the NZ market. Anybody from nZ who is connecting in Australia to fly to the us is a low yield flyer who will trade inconvenience for a cheaper fare. They’re not the type of flyer who will support a high cost operation such as AA. Sorry


In your opinion. Because that's just what it is, an opinion because you have no facts whatsoever to back up what you say, just assertions.


New Zealand is a small market, that much is true, but Qantas are a lot more more competitive there than the poster is asserting.
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RyanairGuru
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:40 am

jasoncrh wrote:
New Zealand is SMALL.l the population is only 4.8 MILLION. That’s simply SMALL. Simply not enough people to support anything more than Air New Zealand. Qantas is but a bit player, flying low fare low yield passengers, in what is already a small market. Sorry.


Provide some facts to support your assertion that Qantas are a "bit player" carrying "low fare low yield" passengers on their Trans Tasman flights or, respectfully, please shut up.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Sydscott
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:09 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
jasoncrh wrote:
New Zealand is SMALL.l the population is only 4.8 MILLION. That’s simply SMALL. Simply not enough people to support anything more than Air New Zealand. Qantas is but a bit player, flying low fare low yield passengers, in what is already a small market. Sorry.


Provide some facts to support your assertion that Qantas are a "bit player" carrying "low fare low yield" passengers on their Trans Tasman flights or, respectfully, please shut up.


Here are some facts about the Trans-Tasman market:

- In 2015 Qantas had a total of 16,296 seats across the Tasman. In 2018 it had 24,643 - 18.5% of the market now up to 27%
- In 2015 Jetstar had a total of 10,740 seats across the Tasman. In 2018 it had 3,661 - 12.2% of the market now down to 4%
- In 2015 Emirates had a total of 12,677 seats across the Tasman. In 2018 it had 9,000 - 14.4% of the market now down to 9.9%

So what these facts support is that Qantas, the Premium brand, has grown at the expense of Jetstar, the budget brand, and more than replaced capacity of EK, it's premium partner in other markets. That is along with deploying A330's with lie flats across the Tasman all of which supports growth at the Premium end.

So these facts don't really support QF being a bit player on the Premium side of at least part of the New Zealand Market and, for comparison, Air New Zealands 2018 Tasman market share was 34.6%. So not that much greater than Qantas.
 
Detroit313
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:50 am

Hopefully by the end of October we'll have an official announcement about their plans.
 
jasoncrh
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:13 pm

Yes and the vast majority of the people on those flights are Australians going to and from
New Zealand. Not kiwis. And Australians are not going to support an AA -operated flight from Auckland to LA in the weakest months of the year. Australians will simply fly one of the many nonstops from Australia to the US.

And as Dennis posted, we should know soon


quote="Sydscott"]
RyanairGuru wrote:
jasoncrh wrote:
New Zealand is SMALL.l the population is only 4.8 MILLION. That’s simply SMALL. Simply not enough people to support anything more than Air New Zealand. Qantas is but a bit player, flying low fare low yield passengers, in what is already a small market. Sorry.


Provide some facts to support your assertion that Qantas are a "bit player" carrying "low fare low yield" passengers on their Trans Tasman flights or, respectfully, please shut up.


Here are some facts about the Trans-Tasman market:

- In 2015 Qantas had a total of 16,296 seats across the Tasman. In 2018 it had 24,643 - 18.5% of the market now up to 27%
- In 2015 Jetstar had a total of 10,740 seats across the Tasman. In 2018 it had 3,661 - 12.2% of the market now down to 4%
- In 2015 Emirates had a total of 12,677 seats across the Tasman. In 2018 it had 9,000 - 14.4% of the market now down to 9.9%

So what these facts support is that Qantas, the Premium brand, has grown at the expense of Jetstar, the budget brand, and more than replaced capacity of EK, it's premium partner in other markets. That is along with deploying A330's with lie flats across the Tasman all of which supports growth at the Premium end.

So these facts don't really support QF being a bit player on the Premium side of at least part of the New Zealand Market and, for comparison, Air New Zealands 2018 Tasman market share was 34.6%. So not that much greater than Qantas.[/quote]
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:55 pm

jasoncrh wrote:
Yes and the vast majority of the people on those flights are Australians going to and from
New Zealand. Not kiwis. And Australians are not going to support an AA -operated flight from Auckland to LA in the weakest months of the year. Australians will simply fly one of the many nonstops from Australia to the US.

And as Dennis posted, we should know soon


quote="Sydscott"]
RyanairGuru wrote:
jasoncrh wrote:
New Zealand is SMALL.l the population is only 4.8 MILLION. That’s simply SMALL. Simply not enough people to support anything more than Air New Zealand. Qantas is but a bit player, flying low fare low yield passengers, in what is already a small market. Sorry.


Provide some facts to support your assertion that Qantas are a "bit player" carrying "low fare low yield" passengers on their Trans Tasman flights or, respectfully, please shut up.


Here are some facts about the Trans-Tasman market:

- In 2015 Qantas had a total of 16,296 seats across the Tasman. In 2018 it had 24,643 - 18.5% of the market now up to 27%
- In 2015 Jetstar had a total of 10,740 seats across the Tasman. In 2018 it had 3,661 - 12.2% of the market now down to 4%
- In 2015 Emirates had a total of 12,677 seats across the Tasman. In 2018 it had 9,000 - 14.4% of the market now down to 9.9%

So what these facts support is that Qantas, the Premium brand, has grown at the expense of Jetstar, the budget brand, and more than replaced capacity of EK, it's premium partner in other markets. That is along with deploying A330's with lie flats across the Tasman all of which supports growth at the Premium end.

So these facts don't really support QF being a bit player on the Premium side of at least part of the New Zealand Market and, for comparison, Air New Zealands 2018 Tasman market share was 34.6%. So not that much greater than Qantas.
[/quote]

Plenty of Australians fly NZ and plenty of Kiwis fly QF. What about AA doing AKL-DFW and QF using a 789 SYD-DFW, halving capacity ex SYD and putting other traffic via AKl on AA, a bit different I know. But QF have a strong point of sale in NZ, it’s just Australia overall is more important to NZ than New Zealand is to QF.
 
Detroit313
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:40 pm

I really hope DFW - AKL happens.
 
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chepos
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:17 am

Well LAX-MEL and DFW-AKL are the routes some are rumoring. Who knows?


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Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:31 pm

The two airlines have added more FF benefits and additional codeshare destinations.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... oom_Alerts

No new routes yet.
 
Sydscott
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:21 pm

Ishrion wrote:
The two airlines have added more FF benefits and additional codeshare destinations.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... oom_Alerts

No new routes yet.


Interesting. This is mostly the QF side of the JV expanding its connecting presence in ORD and DFW while AA expands its codeshare presence on QF flights. That, along with the increased FF program earnings, is probably phase 1 of the Partnership being announced.

Phase 2 is American putting on some flights and additional supporting QF, and JQ, codesharing. That's actually going to be relatively interesting because notwithstanding the various route movements in AA's longhual portfolio I suspect that, with LATAM now leaving and various MAX8 & A321 NEO delays, AA is potentially short of widebody capacity for its network. That will be somewhat alleviated with 788's scheduled to start be delivered from 2020 but those are supposed to replace 763's. So it'll be interesting to see what AA does in terms of shuffling its fleet around the need to increase capacity and flights in South America along with its growth into Europe next year.
 
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chepos
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Re: American Airlines/Qantas Joint Venture Approved

Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:03 am

Sydscott wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
The two airlines have added more FF benefits and additional codeshare destinations.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... oom_Alerts

No new routes yet.


Interesting. This is mostly the QF side of the JV expanding its connecting presence in ORD and DFW while AA expands its codeshare presence on QF flights. That, along with the increased FF program earnings, is probably phase 1 of the Partnership being announced.

Phase 2 is American putting on some flights and additional supporting QF, and JQ, codesharing. That's actually going to be relatively interesting because notwithstanding the various route movements in AA's longhual portfolio I suspect that, with LATAM now leaving and various MAX8 & A321 NEO delays, AA is potentially short of widebody capacity for its network. That will be somewhat alleviated with 788's scheduled to start be delivered from 2020 but those are supposed to replace 763's. So it'll be interesting to see what AA does in terms of shuffling its fleet around the need to increase capacity and flights in South America along with its growth into Europe next year.


From what bas been hinted much of the additional capacity would be added during northern winter. Which seems to be when there is slack in the WB fleet. But yeah, who knows how they are going to juggle the fleet and what gets added. What is certain is that any additional South Pacific flying would tie up a few aircraft.



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