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YYZORD
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YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:03 am

I'm just curious if DL will make their YVR-JFK route year round or if WS will add a year round route to JFK from YVR to compliment the seasonal DL YVR-JFK once DL and WS JV begins as YVR-ATL is now year round? 1X daily YVR-EWR is already great by AC as it can let pax connect to UA flights along with a seasonal UA flight but i'm sure the YVR-NYC market is bigger than what is currently served today year round. ORD even has more flights to YVR than NYC airports as a whole. I'm not considering the CX route of YVR-JFK because I'm sure many dislike the fact the flight doesn't go through YVR preclearance which I never understood why because it would make the flight itself more attractive. Also your paying a premium for a route that could be easily flown for cheaper by DL year round and already is by AC and UA to EWR. Another point to note that the CX flight could go away someday as CX isn't a Canadian or American carrier, mentioning this as PAL already cancelled their YVR-JFK route and if CX does the same, it will make the flight options between the two cities more underserved. Not bashing CX at all, I love the airline compared to most Canadian and American carriers but flying a transborder route and same time no preclearance, there could be risks that CX can give up on the route someday and DL, AC or UA can all compete with preclearance at YVR against CX. I'm not considering AA adding YVR from JFK because of the recent cuts there.
 
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STT757
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:22 am

AC flies the 787 year round between YVR and EWR, outside the peak Summer Months that is pretty significant capacity. The Summer traffic is dominated by cruise traffic.


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jfklganyc
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:37 am

CX has been flying the route for decades

It is one of the more stable routes out there

Just sayin
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:41 am

I do agree that there are fewer flights than expected

SEA has a lot of NYC lift and is nearby

Cruise ships in recent years have started doing more roundtrips out of SEA

I was talking to one of the planners at Carnival several years ago and he said the reason they moved their cruises from Vancouver to Seattle was that was the preference of Americans due to cheaper airfare.

Canadian airports are expensive fee wise

All of this plays a role
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:48 am

Periods, paragraphs and grammar.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:43 pm

So little faith in markets... The U.S. and Canada have had comprehensive Open Skies agreements for more than two decades. Off the top of my head I can think of ten U.S. and Canadian carriers both serving JFK/EWR at present and with aircraft for the range NYC-YVR: AA, DL, UA, B6, Alaska, Spirit, Allegiant, Hawaiian(!), Air Canada and WestJet. The OP's argument, in effect: They're all NOT DOING IT RIGHT.

I expect that AA/DL/UA all have sales staff well embedded with the major cruise lines and routinely inquire as to changes in capacity by departure and arrival port.
 
tphuang
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:02 pm

I think it's underserved. The fact that both CX and PR can last on this route tells me it's an underserved and high yielding market.
 
asuflyer
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:02 pm

It's not only cruise traffic, the 787 goes out full also due to connections to OZ as well as O&D. Really WS is the only airline that is missing from the route. WS is doing better on YYC-JFK, the flight is now year round. I could see them starting JFK from YVR if they could get the slots and once the MAX is back in action. CX took a bit of a hit both fares and loads wise when PR served it before going nonstop on JFK-MNL, but the route is definitely not going anywhere.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:15 pm

Bobloblaw wrote:
Periods, paragraphs and grammar.


Read my mind....

That was exhausting to read.

YYZORD wrote:
ORD even has more flights to YVR than NYC airports as a whole.


ORD has more flights as it serves more than just O&D between the two cities. It is an ideal connecting point for YVR originating passengers heading to the US midwest and the US east coast. JFK or EWR aren't as ideal in that regard.
Last edited by Thenoflyzone on Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
Aliqiout
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:16 pm

YYZORD wrote:
I'm just curious if DL will make their YVR-JFK route year round or if WS will add a year round route to JFK from YVR to compliment the seasonal DL YVR-JFK once DL and WS JV begins as YVR-ATL is now year round? 1X daily YVR-EWR is already great by AC as it can let pax connect to UA flights along with a seasonal UA flight but i'm sure the YVR-NYC market is bigger than what is currently served today year round. ORD even has more flights to YVR than NYC airports as a whole. I'm not considering the CX route of YVR-JFK because I'm sure many dislike the fact the flight doesn't go through YVR preclearance which I never understood why because it would make the flight itself more attractive. Also your paying a premium for a route that could be easily flown for cheaper by DL year round and already is by AC and UA to EWR. Another point to note that the CX flight could go away someday as CX isn't a Canadian or American carrier, mentioning this as PAL already cancelled their YVR-JFK route and if CX does the same, it will make the flight options between the two cities more underserved. Not bashing CX at all, I love the airline compared to most Canadian and American carriers but flying a transborder route and same time no preclearance, there could be risks that CX can give up on the route someday and DL, AC or UA can all compete with preclearance at YVR against CX. I'm not considering AA adding YVR from JFK because of the recent cuts there.

I am not trying to be critical, but this would be a lot easier to read if you used punctuation and paragraphs.

Back on subject. I have been hoping for a while now for AS to try to rebuild at YVR, but the merger dashed my hooes for that happening anytime soon. A YVR-NYC flight would have been worth a shot if their interest in YVR and expanded capacity to NYC had coexisted.
 
steveinbc
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:14 pm

My guess is that the majority of passengers are travelling for leisure. Vancouver is not a significant business centre and most NYC residents likely head over for cruises which supports a range of seasonal direct routes . From my frequent trips between the cities there appeared to be a surprisingly large number of movie related Passengers.
Underserved? With just two wide bodies direct each way daily arguably it is when compared to a similarly sized west coast American city. But looking at an western Canadian city it is well served.
A319 320 321 330 340 380 B707 727 737 747 757 767 777 787 BAe1-11 Trident 1, 2, 3B Viscount Lancaster VC10 HS748, ATP DHC-1, 3 Dash-8 Dash-400 Shorts 330 360 Embraer Banderiante Brasileria 175 190 BAe146 Saab 200 DC-3 -8 -9 -10 MD-11 ATR42-72
 
qcpilotxf
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:15 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
I do agree that there are fewer flights than expected
SEA has a lot of NYC lift and is nearby


YVR-NYC also overflies at a minimum of 4 major hubs (I'm sure I missed one). Transcons use a lot of time on aircraft, it may have better yields only having a few nonstops and sending the rest on connections
 
tphuang
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:18 pm

If B6 ever decides to fly to Canada, JFK-YVR seems to be one they can make money on.
 
raylee67
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:52 pm

CX is not going to cancel YVR-JFK. If you look at how the 77W is deployed, it's perfect operationally and it minimizes the time for the plane on the ground at both YVR and JFK. It is able to do so because it operates 17 weekly to YVR and 3 daily non-stop to JFK from HKG, so the YVR-JFK rotation makes use of that flexibility.

Besides, F and C seats are full a lot of time. It's high yield and high demand. CX is not going to let go of it.

Even if WS enters the market, CX's F and C will continue to be in demand and it would not care about WS coming in.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
YYZORD
Topic Author
Posts: 489
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:39 pm

Sorry about the grammar mistakes on here, I wrote this at about 5 am when I was about to fall asleep.

Aliqiout wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
I'm just curious if DL will make their YVR-JFK route year round or if WS will add a year round route to JFK from YVR to compliment the seasonal DL YVR-JFK once DL and WS JV begins as YVR-ATL is now year round? 1X daily YVR-EWR is already great by AC as it can let pax connect to UA flights along with a seasonal UA flight but i'm sure the YVR-NYC market is bigger than what is currently served today year round. ORD even has more flights to YVR than NYC airports as a whole. I'm not considering the CX route of YVR-JFK because I'm sure many dislike the fact the flight doesn't go through YVR preclearance which I never understood why because it would make the flight itself more attractive. Also your paying a premium for a route that could be easily flown for cheaper by DL year round and already is by AC and UA to EWR. Another point to note that the CX flight could go away someday as CX isn't a Canadian or American carrier, mentioning this as PAL already cancelled their YVR-JFK route and if CX does the same, it will make the flight options between the two cities more underserved. Not bashing CX at all, I love the airline compared to most Canadian and American carriers but flying a transborder route and same time no preclearance, there could be risks that CX can give up on the route someday and DL, AC or UA can all compete with preclearance at YVR against CX. I'm not considering AA adding YVR from JFK because of the recent cuts there.

I am not trying to be critical, but this would be a lot easier to read if you used punctuation and paragraphs.

Back on subject. I have been hoping for a while now for AS to try to rebuild at YVR, but the merger dashed my hooes for that happening anytime soon. A YVR-NYC flight would have been worth a shot if their interest in YVR and expanded capacity to NYC had coexisted.
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:38 pm

I should be the only one who think preclearance is overrated. I'm not a US nor Canadian passport holder but as someone who often fly J TATL, it normally doesn't get me more than 15-20 minutes from the jet bridge to the street. Sometimes even less.
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,
764, 789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,
752, 722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,
M83, M87, M88,310,319,320,321,332,
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DSH8, CS1,CS3
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:15 pm

upperdeckfan wrote:
I should be the only one who think preclearance is overrated. I'm not a US nor Canadian passport holder but as someone who often fly J TATL, it normally doesn't get me more than 15-20 minutes from the jet bridge to the street. Sometimes even less.


It's not just about reducing congestion at your port of entry in the US.

Preclearance operations assist efforts in identifying terrorists, criminals, and other national security threats prior to their boarding an aircraft bound for the United States. Preclearance also facilitates travel between the preclearance location and U.S. airports unequipped to handle international travelers, such as DCA or LGA.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
BAINY3
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:27 pm

YVR-NYC actually has had some service increases in the past few years. Earlier this decade it was only CX on YVR-JFK and AC on YVR-EWR, and AC was just an A319 or A320. Now AC flies a 787 on the route, and UA/DL have added seasonal service to the market.
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:02 pm

Bobloblaw wrote:
Periods, paragraphs and grammar.


+1. I don't read crap that is so poorly written that it's not understandable.

Back to the topic: does Cathay Pacific have fifth-freedom rights on YVR-JFK?
 
x1234
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:04 pm

SurlyBonds, yes. Also the reason CX still flies HKG-YVR-JFK it is rumoured because of cargo reasons. They can take full payload from HKG to JFK (and HKG/SZX/CAN South China is the worlds manufacturing centre) including air-mail.
 
Airlinerdude
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:14 pm

Both UA and DL also serve this route seasonally from EWR and JFK respectively. I would expect to see both of these airlines go year-round before WS enters this market.

The biggest reason for the lack of non-stop flights is because of the numerous connection opportunities. In addition to that, if you connect through YYZ/DEN/intermediary XYZ you can get to LGA which tends to be preferable for some people I know. Through YYZ it takes about 7h, through DEN it takes about 7h 45m, with the non-stop taking just over 5. Sure it's extra time, but the people I know would rather fly than be stuck in NY traffic.
 
multimark
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:47 am

upperdeckfan wrote:
I should be the only one who think preclearance is overrated. I'm not a US nor Canadian passport holder but as someone who often fly J TATL, it normally doesn't get me more than 15-20 minutes from the jet bridge to the street. Sometimes even less.


And if memory serves CX is one of the first flights to land in the morning at JFK, so customs isn't busy.

Many will fly YVR-NYC with a connection in YYZ or YUL if they're on points, or looking for the cheapest fare.
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:39 am

SurlyBonds wrote:
Bobloblaw wrote:
Periods, paragraphs and grammar.


+1. I don't read crap that is so poorly written that it's not understandable.

Back to the topic: does Cathay Pacific have fifth-freedom rights on YVR-JFK?


Yes.
In fact you can google lots of review about CX service between JFK-YVR

And unbeatably CX offer the best trancon service
 
Western727
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:44 pm

Airlinerdude wrote:
Both UA and DL also serve this route seasonally from EWR and JFK respectively. I would expect to see both of these airlines go year-round before WS enters this market.

The biggest reason for the lack of non-stop flights is because of the numerous connection opportunities. In addition to that, if you connect through YYZ/DEN/intermediary XYZ you can get to LGA which tends to be preferable for some people I know. Through YYZ it takes about 7h, through DEN it takes about 7h 45m, with the non-stop taking just over 5. Sure it's extra time, but the people I know would rather fly than be stuck in NY traffic.


While I generally agree with your views above, I generally seek nonstops because of the risk of missed connections. NY traffic: sure, but wouldn't that be better than having a missed connection and potentially a much bigger problem (forced overnights at hubs and such)?
Jack @ AUS
 
YYZORD
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:45 pm

I've always been curious though as to why CX doesn't go through US preclearance at YVR? Would it make the flight more expensive to run or what issues are there?
 
berari
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Re: YVR-NYC Underserved?

Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:59 pm

YYZORD wrote:
I've always been curious though as to why CX doesn't go through US preclearance at YVR? Would it make the flight more expensive to run or what issues are there?


I was thinking that it could be time of day and unavailability of services, but then again it's not true with DL's redeyes and UA also had them. The issue I believe might be that HKG originating pax would then have to leave aircraft, do pre clearance, move aircraft to new gate etc that can be disruptive.

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