User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 9125
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:29 am

More problems for RR

EASA is expected to issue an AD on 787's powered by Rolls Royce Trent 1000 TEN after detecting higher wear on turbine blades. The AD comes after Singapore Airlines confirmed 2 787-10's being grounded due to higher wear.

The latest version of the Trent engine has been dogged by problems since entering service at the end of 2017. According to Rolls-Royce, by late February 35 787s had been grounded globally due to engine blades corroding or cracking prematurely.
“This blade deterioration is a known issue but it is occurring faster than we expected on some engines,” Chris Cholerton, Rolls-Royce President for Civil Aerospace, said on Wednesday.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-roll ... SKCN1RM0MU

Currently there are approximately 180 RR Trent TEN engines in service

https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status ... 79264?s=20
Forum Moderator
 
tealnz
Posts: 587
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:47 am

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:14 am

Any indication it is affecting 789s? Or just -10s?
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1229
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:47 am

tealnz wrote:
Any indication it is affecting 789s? Or just -10s?


Or A339s for that matter?
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 9125
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:10 pm

EASA has now issued AD requiring inspection before 650 flight cycles

https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status ... 96192?s=20
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
BlueSky1976
Posts: 1881
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:18 am

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:32 pm

tealnz wrote:
Any indication it is affecting 789s? Or just -10s?


Newer 787-9s also have RR T1000-TEN, so presumably AD would apply to them as well.
Tarriffs are taxes. Taxation is theft. You are not entitled to anything.
If it's a Boeing, I'm not going.
 
LY777
Posts: 2541
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:58 pm

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:26 pm

What’s wrong with manufacturers these days ???
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 8314
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:46 pm

Well, I guess NZ will be hanging onto the 3 leased 777s for a while longer.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1455
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:10 am

LY777 wrote:
What’s wrong with manufacturers these days ???


I'm guessing that the engines are much more complex then ever. I don't know if it means something is wrong but rather that it needs inspection until engineer's can and figure a better system or way.
 
tealnz
Posts: 587
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:47 am

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:26 am

BlueSky1976 wrote:
tealnz wrote:
Any indication it is affecting 789s? Or just -10s?

Newer 787-9s also have RR T1000-TEN, so presumably AD would apply to them as well.

The reason I asked is that the groundings seem to be only for -10s. I believe they are running a higher thrust version of the -TEN and will be totting up more takeoffs than long-haul 789s. So it would not be a surprise if the 789s with -TENs are less affected.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 18306
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:22 am

BlueSky1976 wrote:
tealnz wrote:
Any indication it is affecting 789s? Or just -10s?


Newer 787-9s also have RR T1000-TEN, so presumably AD would apply to them as well.

Presumably to the T7000 on the A339 too.

There is so much pressure to under test.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 2312
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:28 am

At what point would these RR T1000 problems affect ETOPS on the 787?
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
User avatar
hongkongflyer
Posts: 709
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:23 am

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:33 am

LY777 wrote:
What’s wrong with manufacturers these days ???


I feel that we have reached the edge of current technology limits and continuing to push the new models and new engines beyond the limitations.
 
lutfi
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 6:33 pm

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:46 am

lightsaber wrote:
BlueSky1976 wrote:
tealnz wrote:
Any indication it is affecting 789s? Or just -10s?


Newer 787-9s also have RR T1000-TEN, so presumably AD would apply to them as well.

Presumably to the T7000 on the A339 too.

There is so much pressure to under test.

Lightsaber


Agree. Commercial teams push engineering to accept timelines without enough testing time -so launch customers become ‘beta’ testers
 
sciing
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:54 am

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:28 am

qf789 wrote:
EASA has now issued AD requiring inspection before 650 flight cycles

https://twitter.com/rschuur_aero/status ... 96192?s=20


Direct link without useless Twitter: https://ad.easa.europa.eu/blob/EASA_PAD ... D_19-059_1
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3981
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:01 am

I'm not sure what Rolls Royce is doing anymore.. When did their engineering run off the rails? The RB211 was a reliable engine. the Trent flew for years on the 777 and I didn't see much of any trouble, But the 787? They've had monster problems. Did they try a step too far??
 
gloom
Posts: 326
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:24 pm

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:57 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
I feel that we have reached the edge of current technology limits and continuing to push the new models and new engines beyond the limitations.


+1, but I wouldn't call it "beyond limitations", it's just the wearoff, not fundamental wrong technology. It's more a manufacturing and quality problem (materials not good enough, or production technology not good enough yet, as I see it).
We've seen some new technologies entering the line, we've seen some old technologies being pushed to max and beyond to match. Engines gained two-digit numbers reduction in fuel burn in the past 15 years generation to generation. I guess we'll see a few years when those new techs mature and developed to last longer.
It's just the moment in time when technology was used to push efficiency too much. Now the pendulum will swing to reliability again, I guess. It's always like that.

Cheers,
Adam
 
WIederling
Posts: 8888
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:01 am

lutfi wrote:
Agree. Commercial teams push engineering to accept timelines without enough testing time -so launch customers become ‘beta’ testers


Issue is that there is so much time spent until these things come up with beta testers that
a mole hill of produce has been pushed into the market in the meantime.
Contrary to software ( where this technique got "invented" ) you can't just "update" the parts online. :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 2951
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:07 am

This is not unexpected. The TEN turbine blades are the essentially the same as the original 1000 pack C blades. The new version of the 1000 C blade has just now been put into service. The XWB and the early 7000 will likely have the same issues.
 
StTim
Posts: 3473
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:12 am

WIederling wrote:
lutfi wrote:
Agree. Commercial teams push engineering to accept timelines without enough testing time -so launch customers become ‘beta’ testers


Issue is that there is so much time spent until these things come up with beta testers that
a mole hill of produce has been pushed into the market in the meantime.
Contrary to software ( where this technique got "invented" ) you can't just "update" the parts online. :-)


But also you cannot test the engines with every type of fuel and other environmental factors for the thousands of hours that may be necessary for such issues to become apparent. The testing schedule would be extremely long and costly.

I too get the feeling that certain parts are being pushed to the limits of current metallurgy and manufacturing processes in the desirable goal of increased fuel technology.

One thing that does surprise me is that so far there does not seem to have been similar issues on the XWB which has been successfully in operation for a number of years now.
 
User avatar
JannEejit
Posts: 1371
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:17 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
LY777 wrote:
What’s wrong with manufacturers these days ???


I feel that we have reached the edge of current technology limits and continuing to push the new models and new engines beyond the limitations.


That's my feeling too and that the constant quest for more fuel efficient, and more powerful engine technology is partly to blame. Rolls Royce are not the only OEM to experience problems in recent times. 'End user beta testing' has IMHO become a scourge of modern manufacturing processes and not just within aviation technology either.
 
lutfi
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 6:33 pm

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:11 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
I'm not sure what Rolls Royce is doing anymore.. When did their engineering run off the rails? The RB211 was a reliable engine. the Trent flew for years on the 777 and I didn't see much of any trouble, But the 787? They've had monster problems. Did they try a step too far??


Um the RB211 was the reason they went bankrupt and had to be nationalised by the U.K. government. It ended up reliable, but their attempts to use carbon fibre fan blades broke them
 
User avatar
LaunchDetected
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:42 pm

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:30 pm

I don't understand why there is not the same amount of problems with the Trent XWB.

(The Trent 7000 is too recent and too few to encounter this kind of troubles.)
Caravelle lover
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1567
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:34 pm

gloom wrote:
we've seen some old technologies being pushed to max and beyond to match.
Pun intended?
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
Amiga500
Posts: 2452
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:22 am

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:40 pm

grbauc wrote:
LY777 wrote:
What’s wrong with manufacturers these days ???


I'm guessing that the engines are much more complex then ever.


Nope. You've got a pack of gormless gombeens running the show.

Processes are s**t. Tools are even worse. Decision makers are too ignorant to know enough to fix it. You have a few good people running around firefighting, but then you've got the program crowd running around with cans of petrol.

They could do with sending every single last employee they have on a month long course on databases and how to properly set up and use the f**king things.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 21781
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:55 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Presumably to the T7000 on the A339 too.

There is so much pressure to under test.

Lightsaber

How's that working out for Rolls? Boeing? Etc.

Amiga500 wrote:
Nope. You've got a pack of gormless gombeens running the show.

Processes are s**t. Tools are even worse. Decision makers are too ignorant to know enough to fix it. You have a few good people running around firefighting, but then you've got the program crowd running around with cans of petrol.

Yep, engineering these days is plagued by a bunch of well dressed gormless idiots too stupid to know that they don't know anything happily collecting fat pay packets while the ship runs aground.

Amiga500 wrote:
They could do with sending every single last employee they have on a month long course on databases and how to properly set up and use the f**king things.

I didn't see that particular rant coming...
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Amiga500
Posts: 2452
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:22 am

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:53 pm

Revelation wrote:
Amiga500 wrote:
They could do with sending every single last employee they have on a month long course on databases and how to properly set up and use the f**king things.

I didn't see that particular rant coming...


Management is full of the generation that converted from type-writers to word processors.

They just don't realise that the world has moved on so much.

If we searched the internet (or even websites on the internet - like Amazon for instance) in the same way engineering companies index their data; then Jeff Bezos would have been bankrupted ages ago.


If I want to see the properties of any variable used within code - one click should do it - and give me everything I need to know. I shouldn't be running off to find various embedded excel sheets and text files inside word docs then manually cross referencing to see what bounds applies to any particular build.
 
User avatar
Pudelhund
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:06 pm

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:05 pm

LaunchDetected wrote:
I don't understand why there is not the same amount of problems with the Trent XWB.

(The Trent 7000 is too recent and too few to encounter this kind of troubles.)


[boeingconspiritard]the engine problems were manufactured specifically for the Trent 1000 in order to sabotage Boring and the 787 program[/boeingconspiritard]
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 21781
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:28 pm

Amiga500 wrote:
Management is full of the generation that converted from type-writers to word processors.

They just don't realise that the world has moved on so much.

If we searched the internet (or even websites on the internet - like Amazon for instance) in the same way engineering companies index their data; then Jeff Bezos would have been bankrupted ages ago.

If I want to see the properties of any variable used within code - one click should do it - and give me everything I need to know. I shouldn't be running off to find various embedded excel sheets and text files inside word docs then manually cross referencing to see what bounds applies to any particular build.

Ok, I think I see where you are coming from. It seems to boil down to the idea that management doesn't understand how data is used in the organization, and they don't realize they need a Data Architecture and one or more Data Architects with the resources to clean up the mess.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
LDRA
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:01 am

Re: AD to be issued on 787 RR Trent 1000 TEN engines

Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:54 pm

Amiga500 wrote:
grbauc wrote:
LY777 wrote:
What’s wrong with manufacturers these days ???


I'm guessing that the engines are much more complex then ever.


Nope. You've got a pack of gormless gombeens running the show.

Processes are s**t. Tools are even worse. Decision makers are too ignorant to know enough to fix it. You have a few good people running around firefighting, but then you've got the program crowd running around with cans of petrol.

They could do with sending every single last employee they have on a month long course on databases and how to properly set up and use the f**king things.


So true!!!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos