wjcandee
Posts: 7876
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Delta looking into accelerating MD-90 retirement

Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:36 am

USAirKid wrote:
"...after which Delta will have the option to purchase the aircraft at the then-prevailing market value."


And that turns out to be a very-valuable lease term for DL. The prevailing market value for these frames isn't high. So DL gets a very good deal if it wants it. As Lahey used to point out, he can make up for a lot of inefficiency in a new-build frame over time just by lowering the price. The kind of prices these frames can be had for is an important component of how economical they will be to continue to operate.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 17962
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Delta looking into accelerating MD-90 retirement

Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:11 pm

wjcandee wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
"...after which Delta will have the option to purchase the aircraft at the then-prevailing market value."


And that turns out to be a very-valuable lease term for DL. The prevailing market value for these frames isn't high. So DL gets a very good deal if it wants it. As Lahey used to point out, he can make up for a lot of inefficiency in a new-build frame over time just by lowering the price. The kind of prices these frames can be had for is an important component of how economical they will be to continue to operate.

In high utilization service the purchase price is about 15% if the cost, fuel (today) about 30% and maintenance about 15%.

Buying new would save about 30% in fuel (recall, the A220 cruises 4,000 ft higher, and subsystems that save fuel. The weight is the engines that save fuel. Maintenance is about 20% less.). So buying new saves about 13%+.

However, in low utilization duty, it would make sense to keep the 717s around. By low utilization, I mean the part of the DL fleet that doesn't fly much on Tuesdays and Wednesdays and is parked in low season except for the busier days.

I see a need at DL for some low utilization aircraft. The question is, when do Douglas parts become so dear it isn't economical to support the type? It typically takes 400+ aircraft in service to create enough economy of scale. If anything, economy of scale is climbing with animation. (Save 13% everytime production doubles instead of the old 10%.)

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
jagraham
Posts: 881
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: Delta looking into accelerating MD-90 retirement

Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:51 pm

NWAROOSTER wrote:
jagraham wrote:
NWAROOSTER wrote:
I am not an expert on aircraft leases but I am sure Delta has written into any lease extensions on the 717s language that allows Delta to reject or modify any lease extensions as Delta sees fit. This includes outright cancelation, transferring any 717s to Hawaiian and Qantas-link at a then current market rate which is all that Boeing would receive. Others could be bought by Delta for as little as one dollar and become parts or donor aircraft which Delta would use to continue operating on short routes as spare aircraft to replace other out of service aircraft. The 717 has little or no market value and Boeing is stuck with taking a write down if Delta no longer has any need for them. Delta did NOT make a mistake in leasing the 717s from Southwest and ultimately Boeing. Boeing mad a mistake in leasing the 717s to AirTrans and now the consequences are going to come home to Boeing to roost.
Hawaiian is the only airline currently dependent on the 717 as they operate their aircraft on short routes with quick turn arounds. It is now really the only jet aircraft that at can operate the quick turn arounds. Hawaiian is going to need to operate the 717s until their is an aircraft available to operate under these conditions or they will need to acquire more 717s so that the aircraft can be spread out more between flights and reduce the the hours and cycles on them. Hawaiian has two other options which include obtaining jet aircraft in a number that they can sit on the ground longer to cool down and have another jet to replace the freshly landed aircraft. Their other option is to obtain turboprop aircraft that can fly under these conditions. :old:


go! and Island Air proved that the currently available turboprops are not competitive.

I only brought up Hawaiian using turboprop aircraft as sooner or later the 20 717s that Hawaiian operate plus any the could acquire can last only so long. I do not, know if there are any jet aircraft that are now available or will come on line that Hawaiian could use as a 717 replacement. Hawaiian may have limited options and Empire operates about six ATR turboprops for Hawaiian currently.
The only jet option I think of would be the Airbus A220. However I do not know if they can make quick turn arounds due to the cool down times the power plant need Hawaiian may need to buy extra aircraft to swap so their NEW jets would have the cool down time. No power plant manufacture is going to build an engine only for Hawaiian that can make quick turn arounds. There is NO economical reason to do so. :old:


The Mitsubishi MRJ should also be a viable option when it becomes available. But it will have the same cool down issue.

Or Hawaiian could use some A321s in a similar fashion to what Southwest plans (make a hop or two, then back to the mainland).

It is an issue for the future. But for the next decade at least, Hawaiian has the 717s.
 
DeltaMD95
Posts: 502
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:37 am

Re: Delta looking into accelerating MD-90 retirement

Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:15 pm

Andy33 wrote:
enorloz wrote:
Also V7 should be interested in some DL 717.

A few years ago Volotea would indeed have been. Now they've made the decision to standardise on the A319ceo.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 9s-422975/
In just 18 months they've gone from 0 to 16 A319s (second hand, but then so were the 717s) and dropped some of the 717s, two of which have been picked up by Hawaiian.


IIRC, Volotea announced plans to announce a 717 withdrawal some time ago, but outside of the 2 HA frames, are any other members of the fleet spoken for?
Did you know that a Boeing 717-200 is really a McDonnell Douglas MD95-30? ;-)

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos