Coalways
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UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:26 pm

United Airlines has added the possible long-range Airbus "A321XLR" to its list of replacement options for some of its aging Boeing 757s, as it aims to replace the middle-of-the-market portion of its fleet in the next decade.
Last edited by SQ22 on Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: United adds A321XLR

Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:30 pm

Source?

If true, this is to add pressure to Boeing to launch the 797.
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dcajet
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Re: United adds A321XLR

Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:31 pm

Sorry, but that is a clickbait tittle if there ever was one... And old news to boot. The announcement was made 10 days ago at an all hands meeting here at the SFO base. While airlines are quietly reserving positions for 2023, Airbus is not authorized yet to officially offer the plane: it has not been launched.
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Nicknuzzii
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Re: United adds A321XLR

Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:32 pm

dcajet wrote:
Sorry, but that is a clickbait tittle if there ever was one... And old news to boot. The announcement was made 10 days ago at an all hands meeting here at the SFO base. While airlines are quietly reserving positions for 2023, Airbus is not authorized yet to officially offer the plane: it has not been launched.


Yes I agree, please change.
 
Coalways
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Re: United adds A321XLR

Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:34 pm

 
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ikolkyo
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Re: United adds A321XLR

Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:36 pm

This was discussed in the UA thread a little bit ago. Also the title is horrific.
 
727LOVER
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Re: United adds A321XLR

Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:36 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
Source?
.


Actually, he posted a few minutes earlier with a link to Flight Global...a link that didnt work.
Then I looked back and the thread had disappeared. Hope that wasn't a virus
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dcajet
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Re: United adds A321XLR

Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:37 pm

You forgot to add "as a possible 757 replacement" to your thread tittle. As it reads, it's misleading and folks will think that UA actually ordered the plane, which it is not possible as it not for sale... yet. Please consider modifying the title. Thanks.
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SQ22
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:53 pm

Title has been changed. Furthermore please always provide a link to your source, otherwise you are at risk of thread being deleted.
 
TC957
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:08 pm

What other choice have UA got until Boeing pulls their finger out over the 797 specification.
 
ILS28ORD
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:27 pm

Also already being discussed in the UA fleet thread
 
Scarebus34
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:27 pm

Cancellation of their A350 in exchange for being launch customer of the 321XLR... :stirthepot:
 
impilot
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:58 pm

TC957 wrote:
What other choice have UA got until Boeing pulls their finger out over the 797 specification.

Buy B6 and use their NEOs/LRs. :stirthepot:
 
oschkosch
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Re: United adds A321XLR

Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:02 pm

dcajet wrote:
Sorry, but that is a clickbait tittle if there ever was one... And old news to boot. The announcement was made 10 days ago at an all hands meeting here at the SFO base. While airlines are quietly reserving positions for 2023, Airbus is not authorized yet to officially offer the plane: it has not been launched.
they may not have ATO, but apparently sold out all 2023 slots already!

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Devilfish
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Re: United adds A321XLR

Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:26 pm

dcajet wrote:
While airlines are quietly reserving positions for 2023, Airbus is not authorized yet to officially offer the plane: it has not been launched.

oschkosch wrote:
they may not have ATO, but apparently sold out all 2023 slots already!

Any links to a source for that please?
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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Kindanew
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Re: United adds A321XLR

Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:26 pm

Devilfish wrote:
dcajet wrote:
While airlines are quietly reserving positions for 2023, Airbus is not authorized yet to officially offer the plane: it has not been launched.

oschkosch wrote:
they may not have ATO, but apparently sold out all 2023 slots already!

Any links to a source for that please?


https://leehamnews.com/2019/04/11/from- ... e-cutback/
 
juliuswong
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:44 am

Well, they can always order more 737Max 10 and 787, why bother adding another fleet type when Boeing can offer both at competitive price.
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Devilfish
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Re: United adds A321XLR

Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:53 am

"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Sancho99504
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:13 am

juliuswong wrote:
Well, they can always order more 737Max 10 and 787, why bother adding another fleet type when Boeing can offer both at competitive price.

Yes, and while they're at it, open a scissor hub at KEF since the Max 10 has an estimated 3,300NM range, which will probably translate into about 3,000 for transatlantic purposes.
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DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:55 am

I think UA will go for the XLR, along with DL and AA and quite a few European airlines. Boeing has been caught absolutely flat-footed and cannot catch up . Just my 2 cents
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keesje
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:08 am

I think Boeing has allowed Airbus time to create an acceptable A321 NMA solution. Boeing 797 NMA is now 2026 earliest, ramp up in the 2 years after.. 2028.

That gave them time to discuss with all airlines, time to engineer a fuel capacity / wing modification that can be realized in 3-4 yrs. Even UA can't effort everybody but them cherry picking TATL city pairs with the efficient, low risk A321s.

I assume UA had doubts (rightfully, from their 757 winter flights experiences) with the A321LR's 4000NM range. The XLR removes those doubts.

UA is probably one of the few carriers Airbus would allow additional discounts/ conditions, because of their large Boeing, 737-10 commitment. They want to place more than just 30-40 A321XLR's with United. What about 100.

I think Boeing can not be dissapointed in United. United has been extremely patient with them on the 737-9, 737-10, committing to Boeing,promoting an NMA, when almost all their competitors introduced A321s for transcons. (Delta, American, Jetblue, Alaska/Virgin, Hawaiian, Spirit).

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texl1649
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:35 am

Ok, so we’re talking transatlantic again. There are 500K transatlantic flights a year, moving to 800K by 2030 I read today (leeham’s Piece on ADS-B improvements): there will be a lot of room for larger aircraft in this space, ideally not as heavy as the 787 and 330.

Here, UA operates around 800 aircraft today, including over 150 A32x series. They’ve got around 40 on order as it is, as the 320’s and 319’s are around 20 years old on average already (and most of those are 319’s which seems ridiculous as that’s about a dead aircraft at this point). Their 75 or so 757’s are right at 21 years old as well. It’s unlikely UA doesn’t order at least some A321 XLR’s, imho (ideally cancelling some 319’s in the process), but it’s also highly unlikely they don’t also get whatever Boeing launches below the 787.
 
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keesje
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:39 am

Looking at the 90 777-200s, 200ERs and 767-400ERs in service and only 20 787s left in the backlog, the 45 A350 on order are not enough. W'll see.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
mjoelnir
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:46 am

Scarebus34 wrote:
Cancellation of their A350 in exchange for being launch customer of the 321XLR... :stirthepot:


Add a few A350 to be able to jump the queue on the XLR?
 
Scarebus34
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:11 pm

texl1649 wrote:
Ok, so we’re talking transatlantic again. There are 500K transatlantic flights a year, moving to 800K by 2030 I read today (leeham’s Piece on ADS-B improvements): there will be a lot of room for larger aircraft in this space, ideally not as heavy as the 787 and 330.

Here, UA operates around 800 aircraft today, including over 150 A32x series. They’ve got around 40 on order as it is, as the 320’s and 319’s are around 20 years old on average already (and most of those are 319’s which seems ridiculous as that’s about a dead aircraft at this point). Their 75 or so 757’s are right at 21 years old as well. It’s unlikely UA doesn’t order at least some A321 XLR’s, imho (ideally cancelling some 319’s in the process), but it’s also highly unlikely they don’t also get whatever Boeing launches below the 787.

They do not have new 319s on order, they are all used. They will show up. They are getting a great deal on them. Even if they only keep them around for a little while it’s totally worth the investment.
 
Cmac787
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:17 pm

The A319 we are getting are much newer than the ones UA already had
 
texl1649
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:22 pm

Ah, thx 27, 28, I was confused.
 
Dave05
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:00 am

I have a question why UA doesn't consider a A330-800 or A330- 900? They are bigger,better and have more range than the 757?
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:23 pm

I think a mix fleet of a321XLR and 797s should be a decent one for UA; they aren’t adding a new type with the former, and it could complement the 797 on flights where it may be too big of an airplane for certain routes. Although it’s a fine gig now where most the TATL is done by one type rating; the 757/767 at EWR.
 
bennett123
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:33 pm

Do you mean WHEN you get the B797.
 
Scarebus34
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:49 pm

[photoid][/photoid]
Dave05 wrote:
I have a question why UA doesn't consider a A330-800 or A330- 900? They are bigger,better and have more range than the 757?

They don’t need bigger to replace 757. They need something comparable. The 757 operate thin markets, they don’t need a bigger aircraft.
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:01 pm

757-300s are flying trunk routes between ORD and SFO/LAX as well as Hawaii. Will the A321XLR replace 234 seat 2-class 757s? What about cargo between the mainland and Hawaii? They use a lot of 737# to Hawaii which can’t carry a lot of cargo.
 
trex8
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:56 pm

Dave05 wrote:
I have a question why UA doesn't consider a A330-800 or A330- 900? They are bigger,better and have more range than the 757?

If they needed a A330neo of any size they could get more 787s to do the same thing.
 
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keesje
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:27 pm

trex8 wrote:
Dave05 wrote:
I have a question why UA doesn't consider a A330-800 or A330- 900? They are bigger,better and have more range than the 757?

If they needed a A330neo of any size they could get more 787s to do the same thing.

:checkmark:

Image

The A321LR could give UA new defensive and opportunistic destinations in Europe The XLR would do so in a year round reliable way.

Image
3500NM & 4000NM ranges from Uniteds Chicago hub
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LAX772LR
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:18 pm

juliuswong wrote:
Well, they can always order more 737Max 10 and 787, why bother adding another fleet type when Boeing can offer both at competitive price.

The MAX10 can help them on TCONs, but not TATL.

787 would be overkill on both, for what they currently use their 757s for.



Dave05 wrote:
I have a question why UA doesn't consider a A330-800 or A330- 900? They are bigger,better and have more range than the 757?

Your second sentence is the answer to your first sentence.

They're bigger, heavier, more costly aircraft; and using them on the current 757 routes would be complete overkill, in exchange for no real advantage.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
N649DL
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:53 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
Dave05 wrote:
I have a question why UA doesn't consider a A330-800 or A330- 900? They are bigger,better and have more range than the 757?

They don’t need bigger to replace 757. They need something comparable. The 757 operate thin markets, they don’t need a bigger aircraft.


Except UA isn't doing that all that much anymore, except seasonal routes to Europe out of EWR. Gone are the CO days of heavily using the 757 on TATL routes.

UA is using the 757 more on the domestic front like BOS-LAX (3x daily in June) BOS-SFO, EWR-SFO/LAX, DEN-OGG, IAD-SAN, EWR-SEA, etc. In the last year I've seen them come and go on a bunch of routes such as LAX-DEN-LAX, EWR-PHX, DEN-MCO-DEN IAD-LAX etc.
 
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DLHAM
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:44 pm

N649DL wrote:
Except UA isn't doing that all that much anymore, except seasonal routes to Europe out of EWR. Gone are the CO days of heavily using the 757 on TATL routes.


And Continental was very sucessful with that, with very few exceptions like CGN and STR (was STR United alteady?! I think so).

With an A321XLR which can do routes to all of western and parts of middle Europe reliably yearround United could build on these sucesses from Continental.
Routes like EWR-BFS, BHX, OSL, CPH, HAM, STR, NCE come to my mind.
But also ORD-MAN, HAM, TXL (these two may be a stretch in winter even for the XLR?), MAD, BCN, LIS. And they can be served much more efficient than with a 757 or 767.
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N649DL
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:16 am

DLHAM wrote:
N649DL wrote:
Except UA isn't doing that all that much anymore, except seasonal routes to Europe out of EWR. Gone are the CO days of heavily using the 757 on TATL routes.


And Continental was very sucessful with that, with very few exceptions like CGN and STR (was STR United alteady?! I think so).

With an A321XLR which can do routes to all of western and parts of middle Europe reliably yearround United could build on these sucesses from Continental.
Routes like EWR-BFS, BHX, OSL, CPH, HAM, STR, NCE come to my mind.
But also ORD-MAN, HAM, TXL (these two may be a stretch in winter even for the XLR?), MAD, BCN, LIS. And they can be served much more efficient than with a 757 or 767.


A lot has changed with flight economics since CO operated them across the pond (and covered up the fact that some destinations were diverted almost weekly during the winter to Gander). It doesn't matter if it's a 757 or A321 XLR, those smaller destinations from EWR such as BFS, BHX, OSL, HAM, CPH aren't coming back. UA has either made them seasonal on 757 or 763 (EG: ARN and PRG) or upgraded them to 763 / 764 / 777 / 773 year-round.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:08 am

N649DL wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
N649DL wrote:
Except UA isn't doing that all that much anymore, except seasonal routes to Europe out of EWR. Gone are the CO days of heavily using the 757 on TATL routes.


And Continental was very sucessful with that, with very few exceptions like CGN and STR (was STR United alteady?! I think so).

With an A321XLR which can do routes to all of western and parts of middle Europe reliably yearround United could build on these sucesses from Continental.
Routes like EWR-BFS, BHX, OSL, CPH, HAM, STR, NCE come to my mind.
But also ORD-MAN, HAM, TXL (these two may be a stretch in winter even for the XLR?), MAD, BCN, LIS. And they can be served much more efficient than with a 757 or 767.


A lot has changed with flight economics since CO operated them across the pond (and covered up the fact that some destinations were diverted almost weekly during the winter to Gander). It doesn't matter if it's a 757 or A321 XLR, those smaller destinations from EWR such as BFS, BHX, OSL, HAM, CPH aren't coming back. UA has either made them seasonal on 757 or 763 (EG: ARN and PRG) or upgraded them to 763 / 764 / 777 / 773 year-round.


If I had a pound for every comment about such a route never happening or never coming back*, I'd be a rich man! Let's see what happens in the future.

MAN-ORD could be worth a shot if UA had a suitable aircraft available. That route has been vacant since AA withdrew the route and it was also served by bmi years ago, so UA would be the logical choice given their hub and if they could operate the route more reliably.

*This isn't limited to United. I can think of more examples or if anyone cares to go through the a.net archives.
 
N649DL
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Re: UA considering A321XLR as possible 757 replacement

Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:02 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
N649DL wrote:
DLHAM wrote:

And Continental was very sucessful with that, with very few exceptions like CGN and STR (was STR United alteady?! I think so).

With an A321XLR which can do routes to all of western and parts of middle Europe reliably yearround United could build on these sucesses from Continental.
Routes like EWR-BFS, BHX, OSL, CPH, HAM, STR, NCE come to my mind.
But also ORD-MAN, HAM, TXL (these two may be a stretch in winter even for the XLR?), MAD, BCN, LIS. And they can be served much more efficient than with a 757 or 767.


A lot has changed with flight economics since CO operated them across the pond (and covered up the fact that some destinations were diverted almost weekly during the winter to Gander). It doesn't matter if it's a 757 or A321 XLR, those smaller destinations from EWR such as BFS, BHX, OSL, HAM, CPH aren't coming back. UA has either made them seasonal on 757 or 763 (EG: ARN and PRG) or upgraded them to 763 / 764 / 777 / 773 year-round.


If I had a pound for every comment about such a route never happening or never coming back*, I'd be a rich man! Let's see what happens in the future.

MAN-ORD could be worth a shot if UA had a suitable aircraft available. That route has been vacant since AA withdrew the route and it was also served by bmi years ago, so UA would be the logical choice given their hub and if they could operate the route more reliably.

*This isn't limited to United. I can think of more examples or if anyone cares to go through the a.net archives.


True! There are some routes cancelled for different reasons. For the British destinations it was more financially-based / lack of demand I believe. For Scandinavia it was probably because SAS as a partner is already on the route running A330s so didn't make sense for UA to operate a 757 on routes to CPH and OSL as well (ARN is seasonal, I think.) If anything, HAM has the best shot of coming back as it was upgraded to a 763 then dropped recently.

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