Nicknuzzii
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CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:26 am

I am a huge UA fanatic, so naturally I'm interested in their history. Does anyone know where the airline flew from CLE prior to the closure of their hub there in 2014. Also how many daily departures the airline was at?

I also see that the airline added a few Florida destinations from the airport, are these just for spring break?
Last edited by Nicknuzzii on Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
detroitbadboy
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:32 am

They flew all over the US from CLE, and at one point (in the CO era) to LON and CDG.
 
cvgComair
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:35 am

You might find these links interesting:
UA hub: http://www.departedflights.com/UACLEhub.html
US hublet: http://www.departedflights.com/ALCLEhub.html
CO hub: http://www.departedflights.com/COCLEhub.html

Unfortunately these only run through 2000. I am sure someone has some numbers from within 2000-2014 though.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:39 am

The CLE hub peaked under Continental, which upped the number of departures in 2007 to around 250 daily. By the time UA announced it was de-hubbing CLE, the number of daily departures was around 125. A few fun facts:

-United de-hubbed Cleveland once before, in 1989, and shifted planes and assets to IAD which became UA's East Coast hub.
-Continental and Hopkins Airport renovated Concourse C, known as the Banjo, in 1991 and then opened Concourse D in 1999.
-CLE was the first of CO's hubs to go all jet when turboprops were moved off CLE routes in favor of the ERJs in 1999-2000.
-CO flew to LGW, then to LHR and also added CDG, which operated for one season, in 2008. LGW/LHR and CDG were flown with 757-200ERs.
 
MO11
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:10 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
A few fun facts:

-United de-hubbed Cleveland once before, in 1989, and shifted planes and assets to IAD which became UA's East Coast hub.


Don't you mean 1979? While the industry was still regulated, UA was stuck with many of the old Capital routes, which it operated with 737-200s. It was able to drop those in 1980.
 
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cosyr
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:20 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
The CLE hub peaked under Continental, which upped the number of departures in 2007 to around 250 daily. By the time UA announced it was de-hubbing CLE, the number of daily departures was around 125. A few fun facts:

-United de-hubbed Cleveland once before, in 1989, and shifted planes and assets to IAD which became UA's East Coast hub.
-Continental and Hopkins Airport renovated Concourse C, known as the Banjo, in 1991 and then opened Concourse D in 1999.
-CLE was the first of CO's hubs to go all jet when turboprops were moved off CLE routes in favor of the ERJs in 1999-2000.
-CO flew to LGW, then to LHR and also added CDG, which operated for one season, in 2008. LGW/LHR and CDG were flown with 757-200ERs.

I don't know if it was official, a gentlemen's agreement or just seizing logical opportunities, but I heard that United had their presence in CLE post deregulation, and when CO bought New York Air, inherited their IAD hub, which they didn't want, so they made a deal to switch IAD and CLE with UA.
 
EarlyLateORD
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:41 am

I transited the CLE Cleveland hub a few times in the 2000's. At the time they had their Beechcraft hub operating. I remember lots of Florida flights as well as west coast business destinations. UA/CO kept rather small planes at CLE it seemed, 737-500's, Embraer 145's, etc.

A few flights I have in my records:

11-03-2010 CLE-MSP Embraer 145 UA

12-06-2012 CLE-PIT Dash 8 UA

12-06-2012 BWI-CLE Embraer 145 CO

11-03-2010 DEN-CLE Boeing 737 CO

12-15-2007 CLE-MCI Embraer 145 CO

12-15-2007 EWR-CLE Boeing 737 CO

Adam
 
BAINY3
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:45 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
-CLE was the first of CO's hubs to go all jet when turboprops were moved off CLE routes in favor of the ERJs in 1999-2000.

This wasn't permanent, though. I flew through CLE in March 2008 and I saw a CO turboprop depart right ahead of us. I think it was Commutair Dash-8s (not sure on -200 or -300 or even a Q400) that I saw. Although overall CLE had tons of ERJs.
 
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September11
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:57 am

Did CLE have a United 747 flight?
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BAINY3
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:03 am

September11 wrote:
Did CLE have a United 747 flight?

In the mid-70s, United flew the 747 on CLE-ORD and sometimes even CLE-MIA.
 
joeman
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:04 am

September11 wrote:
Did CLE have a United 747 flight?

ORD, MIA 1 winter season, from LAX 1 season (I flew it), and from LAX 1 season with DC-10 in the opposite direction
 
crescent
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:11 am

There has to be a market for CLE-CVG and CLE-IND today, right?
 
USAirALB
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:21 am

Wasn’t there a period where CO announced a major expansion at CLE? I think it was around 2006-2008. The first phase was to be new RJ flights and then the second phase was going to be a shift in RJ to mainline aircraft. I know serveral cities had mainline CO CLE flights at this time for a very short period (ALB/PVD/BDL/PWM all come to mind). I don’t think the full expansion ever came to fruition due to the financial crisis.
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RJNUT
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:25 am

I'll never forget CLE-MCI non stop on the Q400.. Not a bad flight at all, maybe around 2013 or 2014
 
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September11
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:32 am

crescent wrote:
There has to be a market for CLE-CVG and CLE-IND today, right?


I have little doubts


CLE-CMH... I flew that route on Continental DC-9. I don't think United had a CLE-CMH flight?
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TWA772LR
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:06 am

I did GRR-CLE on a Q300, or 200, then CLE-DFW on a 145.
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compensateme
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:22 am

USAirALB wrote:
Wasn’t there a period where CO announced a major expansion at CLE? I think it was around 2006-2008. The first phase was to be new RJ flights and then the second phase was going to be a shift in RJ to mainline aircraft. I know serveral cities had mainline CO CLE flights at this time for a very short period (ALB/PVD/BDL/PWM all come to mind). I don’t think the full expansion ever came to fruition due to the financial crisis.


I think you’re mixing things up here. CO was “forced” to upgauge flights to grow EWR, creating a surplus of ERJ (as they were moved away from EWR). In late 2007, CO announced an expansion at CLE utilizing these ERJ. Additional mainline flights were added to anchor cities to support the growth, but there was never a plan to shift away from RJ, nor does it appear the destinations you mentioned were upgauged.

https://www.businesstravelnews.com/Avia ... d-Hub/9751
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slcdeltarumd11
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:27 am

Interesting that co served ISP, BTV, ACY, some routes I never knew existed for CLE
 
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RWA380
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:28 am

Once I flew a PDX-SEA-CLE M80 & then a CLE-BOS 733. Left PDX at 10:30pm & arrived about 10am in BOS. From what I remember, it was a very quick & easy connection with little walking required. It was mid August & I packed nothing but shorts & 1 pair of jeans I wore on the plane, it never broke 60 degrees the 3 days we were there, I was freezing, I had to buy a Boston sweatshirt.

I remember thinking what a joy CLE was to connect at vs DEN (stapleton) that we did on the return & we had to transit from end to another in 20 minutes or less due to our late arrival from Logan & our desire to catch the last flight of the night to PDX was strong. Both flights were on MD-80's & even at 6"4 I was as comfortable as I remember coach ever being.
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BN747DFWHNL
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:38 am

Flew UA144 ORD-CLE late Dec '88 or early Jan '89
DC10 (correction: empty DC10)
Only remember two other people seated near me
Flight originated at SEA
 
Max Q
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:17 am

detroitbadboy wrote:
They flew all over the US from CLE, and at one point (in the CO era) to LON and CDG.



Just to clarify, UA never flew from CLE
to London and Paris, those were pre merger Continental flights
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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cvgComair
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:39 am

crescent wrote:
There has to be a market for CLE-CVG and CLE-IND today, right?

There is, it’s just served using BKL-LUK, 2x/day on UE.
 
Yossarian22
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:48 am

crescent wrote:
There has to be a market for CLE-CVG and CLE-IND today, right?

It is pretty drivable.

The distance between CVG and CLE V CVG and CHI are pretty similar. But, in Chicago I’d rather not have a car in Cleveland a car is a must. For a flight between CVG and CLE, pretty much any delay at all means that you would have broken even or better if you drove, without needing to rent a car at your destination.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:57 am

September11 wrote:
Did CLE have a United 747 flight?


Not sure, but UA did fly DC10s between ORD and CLE, on peak days, first thing in the morning and in the afternoons at times. This lasted into the 1990s.

I was once at CLE in 1992, when fog caused a lot of diversions and a CO 747-100 was diverted there and parked at one of the low C gates in the banjo concourse.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:57 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
September11 wrote:
Did CLE have a United 747 flight?


Not sure, but UA did fly DC10s between ORD and CLE, on peak days, first thing in the morning and in the afternoons at times. This lasted into the 1990s.

I was at CLE in 1992, when fog caused a lot of diversions and a CO 747-100 was diverted there and parked at one of the low C gates in the banjo concourse.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:59 am

MO11 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
A few fun facts:

-United de-hubbed Cleveland once before, in 1989, and shifted planes and assets to IAD which became UA's East Coast hub.


Don't you mean 1979? While the industry was still regulated, UA was stuck with many of the old Capital routes, which it operated with 737-200s. It was able to drop those in 1980.


No, United had a sizable presence in CLE post deregulation. The gates in the C concourse had the United Blue, Orange, and Red striping on the inside the gates and a lot of United signage was in place in the terminal in 1989-90 as CO ramped up there.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:02 pm

When the CO hub was in full swing in the early to mid-1990s, CLE was a mix of turboprops, ERJs, and a lot of 737s (-300s, 500s, then the -700 and -800 by the late 1990s). During the early and mid-1990s, there was the occasional A300 (CO inherited some from the EA days), but 757s were fairly rare. The 757 was used on the LGW, then LHR and the short lived CDG route. Immediately post-merger with UA and for about 2 years, into 2012, the A320, A319, and 757s were used at CLE more frequently.
 
midway7
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:50 pm

cosyr wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
The CLE hub peaked under Continental, which upped the number of departures in 2007 to around 250 daily. By the time UA announced it was de-hubbing CLE, the number of daily departures was around 125. A few fun facts:

-United de-hubbed Cleveland once before, in 1989, and shifted planes and assets to IAD which became UA's East Coast hub.
-Continental and Hopkins Airport renovated Concourse C, known as the Banjo, in 1991 and then opened Concourse D in 1999.
-CLE was the first of CO's hubs to go all jet when turboprops were moved off CLE routes in favor of the ERJs in 1999-2000.
-CO flew to LGW, then to LHR and also added CDG, which operated for one season, in 2008. LGW/LHR and CDG were flown with 757-200ERs.

I don't know if it was official, a gentlemen's agreement or just seizing logical opportunities, but I heard that United had their presence in CLE post deregulation, and when CO bought New York Air, inherited their IAD hub, which they didn't want, so they made a deal to switch IAD and CLE with UA.


This is pretty much what happened. It was around 1985 - 1986. Another reason I think UA moved a hub from CLE to IAD is the new terminal was slated to open at ORD in 1987. This presented a pretty big capacity bump on the ground side, which allowed more traffic to flow over ORD. This would make CLE more redundant at that point. IAD gave UA a whole different connection flow in a different part of the country.
 
SgtBarone
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:35 pm

You can plug in CLE's Wikipedia page into the Internet Wayback Machine to see archived pages of prior destinations during the hub years. Pretty cool stuff.

https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://e ... al_Airport
AGP ATL BCN BNA BOS CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FLL FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RDU RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
MIflyer12
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:19 pm

crescent wrote:
There has to be a market for CLE-CVG and CLE-IND today, right?


Why? Cars on toll-free Interstates. $200 change fees on legacies. $75 same-day confirmed fees - if high load factors don't kill it, anyway. Just drive. CVG-DTW exists for onward connections. CVG-CLE doesn't provide that.
 
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exFWAOONW
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:43 pm

Back in the 70s UA flew DC10s to TPA and I think MCO. I was on a CLE TPA flight with less than 100 pax. It was impossible to lift your head from the seat back for the first three minutes of that flight.
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
masseybrown
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:49 pm

crescent wrote:
There has to be a market for CLE-CVG and CLE-IND today, right?


Not CLE-CVG, but BKL-LUK is pretty popular and is Ultimate Shuttle's biggest route. Twice daily on Mon-Fri with J328s, it's a obviously a business route running just under 20K pax a year. It's not cheap, but it's as hassle-free as flying gets with no TSA checks. Just show up 10 minutes before your flight, their ads say, and travel downtown (BKL) to almost-downtown (LUK). Compared to 5 hours driving time, Ultimate can be very worthwhile.
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: CLE prior to UA hub closure

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:15 pm

According to web archive (destinations about a year before closure on Wikipedia):

Mainline UA: Boston, Cancun, Chicago-O'Hare, Denver, Fort Lauderdale, Fort Myers, Houston-Intercontinental, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, New York-LaGuardia, Newark, Orlando, Phoenix, San Francisco, San Juan, Tampa
Seasonal: Miami, Philadelphia, Portland (OR), San Diego, Seattle/Tacoma, West Palm Beach

Chautauqua (dba UA express): Baltimore, Buffalo, Columbus (OH), Dayton, Erie, Flint, Harrisburg, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, Rochester (NY), Syracuse, Toronto-Pearson, Washington-Dulles

ExpressJet (dba UA express): Albany, Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston, Burlington (VT), Charlotte, Chicago-O'Hare, Dallas/Fort Worth, Dayton, Denver, Grand Rapids, Greenville/Spartanburg, Hartford, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Louisville, Madison, Manchester (NH), Milwaukee, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Montréal-Trudeau, Nashville,[23]New Orleans, New York-LaGuardia, Oklahoma City, Philadelphia, Portland (ME), Providence, Raleigh/Durham, Richmond, Rochester (NY), St. Louis, Syracuse, Toronto-Pearson, Washington-Dulles, Washington-National
Seasonal: Fort Myers, Jacksonville (FL), Miami, Nassau, Orlando, Tampa, West Palm Beach

Republic (dba UA express): Washington-Dulles

Shuttle America (dba UA express): Chicago-O'Hare, Denver, Houston-Intercontinental (begins April 9, 2013), Newark (begins April 9, 2013), Washington-Dulles

Silver Airways (dba UA express): Bradford, DuBois, Franklin, Jamestown, Parkersburg

SkyWest (dba UA express): Atlanta, Chicago-O'Hare, Denver, Houston-Intercontinental (begins May 1, 2013), Kansas City, Milwaukee, Washington-National, Washington-Dulles

Trans States Airlines (dba UA express): Boston, Chicago-O'Hare, Dayton, Greenville/Spartanburg, Hartford, Manchester (NH), Portland (ME), Philadelphia, Richmond, St. Louis, Washington-Dulles

Hopefully this helps!
Can someone please start a wikipedia list of failed startup airlines? I am interested in seeing just how long it would be...

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