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itripreport
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Delta announces reduction in recline on A320 fleet

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:13 pm

A major carrier in the US has just announced to reduce their seat recline on their A320 fleet by a few inches in both first class in economy, citing "personal space" as the reason behind this movement.

For example, Seat recline in First Class will be going down from 5 1/2 inches to 3 1/2 inches. I want to know what are your opinions on this movement, do you agree that an airline which flies their a320s in segments up to 4 hours is doing the right thing by caring about passenger's personal space, or do you believe that the reduction of recline could be bothersome for other passengers?

Edit: Here's a source as I forgot to link it
https://www.forbes.com/sites/garystolle ... f3ecd319d1
Last edited by itripreport on Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:13 pm

Which US major?
When wasn't America great?


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777PHX
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:14 pm

Ok?

Link? Airline?
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:15 pm

Would be nice to have more than "an airline will reduce recline". People generally post a source along with their threads, advice for next time.
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910A
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:16 pm

It's Delta, according to this article

Delta plans to cut recline by 2 inches in both first class and economy on their Airbus A320 aircraft. They say this is a move to increase passenger comfort, and I actually agree with this.

Reduced recline is bad for the passenger who wants to recline, and good for the passenger who doesn’t want to be reclined into.
When there’s enough distance between seats plenty of recline doesn’t mean reclining into someone behind you, but that’s not the reality of US economy travel today.
Delta says they are not going to add seats to these planes, so it’s just about how passengers are able to use their existing space. It’s naturally to be skeptical of this, but remember that Delta has already added seats to their Airbus A320 aircraft and has about 5% more seats than American’s (legac US Airways) A320s


https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... t-flights/
 
anshabhi
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:23 pm

What's exactly the use of an anonymous announcement?
 
Galwayman
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:24 pm

No need for recline in flights less than 4 hours, especially in a place like the US with so many ‘larger’ passengers ...
 
carljanderson
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:25 pm

I tend to not recline in coach on my domestic flights, especialy mid-day.
 
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itripreport
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:30 pm

anshabhi wrote:
What's exactly the use of an anonymous announcement?


https://www.ajc.com/blog/airport/delta- ... TXQEnSdaK/

Its slowly making its way into the news, Delta will be reducing seat recline on its airbus fleet.
 
klm617
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:30 pm

910A wrote:
It's Delta, according to this article

Delta plans to cut recline by 2 inches in both first class and economy on their Airbus A320 aircraft. They say this is a move to increase passenger comfort, and I actually agree with this.

Reduced recline is bad for the passenger who wants to recline, and good for the passenger who doesn’t want to be reclined into.
When there’s enough distance between seats plenty of recline doesn’t mean reclining into someone behind you, but that’s not the reality of US economy travel today.
Delta says they are not going to add seats to these planes, so it’s just about how passengers are able to use their existing space. It’s naturally to be skeptical of this, but remember that Delta has already added seats to their Airbus A320 aircraft and has about 5% more seats than American’s (legac US Airways) A320s


https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... t-flights/


Why doesn't this surprise me. Citing customer comfort as the reason for giving you less how ironic.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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itripreport
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:31 pm

777PHX wrote:
Ok?

Link? Airline?


Delta, https://www.forbes.com/sites/garystolle ... f3ecd319d1
 
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adamblang
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:36 pm

Good. It ruins my flight when the person in front of me reclines their seat, squishing my laptop, and forcing me to contort my wrists to be able to type and get work done. I hope other airlines follow suit.
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:38 pm

klm617 wrote:
Why doesn't this surprise me. Citing customer comfort as the reason for giving you less how ironic.

Thing is, there is only that much space - and your recline may mean less room for me or vice versa. So it can work both ways.
THose in the last row will definitely benefit (got smashed a few times), those by the bulkhead definitely loose(been there once). Those in between can either benefit from being able to open the laptop or loose from more back strain.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:39 pm

I have no issues with this. As a frequent DL flier I don't recline because I know how much I hate it when someone does it to me. The F cabin pitch is not great on the A320, so reducing the recline is a welcome change.

Also, thread title should be changed to ready Delta.
 
WeatherPilot
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:41 pm

anshabhi wrote:
What's exactly the use of an anonymous announcement?


Maybe it’s a publicity stunt.
 
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United787
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:45 pm

I love the reaction on this thread. If UA announced this, the reaction would 180 degrees opposite.
 
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Polot
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:46 pm

United787 wrote:
I love the reaction on this thread. If UA announced this, the reaction would 180 degrees opposite.

:checkmark:

I personally don’t have an issue with this, but I was just about to comment that this thread would have a very different tone if UA was the airline.
 
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itripreport
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:47 pm

United787 wrote:
I love the reaction on this thread. If UA announced this, the reaction would 180 degrees opposite.


Or even American... although not surprised by this, after all, they do have the worst seat pitch in domestic first
 
777PHX
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:49 pm

I don't care who announced it, I like it. I refuse to recline into someone else and I hate when someone does it to me. I flew DEN-LHR in Y a few weeks ago and the muppet in front of me was reclined from wheels up to top of descent.
 
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:49 pm

klm617 wrote:
Why doesn't this surprise me. Citing customer comfort as the reason for giving you less how ironic.


I don't find that reclining the seat makes it any more comfortable anyway, and I hate it when someone reclines into me. I welcome this change wholeheartedly. This will make me more inclined to buy up to Delta Comfort+ rather than booking exit rows.


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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:50 pm

I don’t understand all of the vitriol regarding smaller seats and reclines. Most travelers want cheap. Period. That’s a well known fact and people express this with their spending. The airlines are just giving people what they want. Then I see complaints the seats are too small. Talking out of both sides of their mouths. People that want more comfort have options. They can choose a level of service and comfort they want to pay for. Basic economy, economy, prem economy, biz, first ect. I realize not all airlines offer all products so they are even free to choose which airline to fly. Supply and demand. Really simple.
 
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:53 pm

This is only an issue as they reduced seat pitch, especially in F.

So less seat pitch and no recline.... how is it different from Spirit? :)

Or is this a payment from Boeing? Lol as it effects airbus aircraft.
 
cschleic
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:54 pm

Overall, it's probably a plus since having the seat in front of me recline over the tray makes using a PC or other device difficult. And so many people seem to lean forward to use their computers or tablets anyway.

And pet peeve of mine with a.net posts but can't help mentioning.... it's "lose" not "loose" ....loose is what happens to a shoelace, lose is what happens when seat pitch shrinks.
 
morrisond
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:58 pm

I think the right solution is seats where the bottom slides forward along with the bottom of the seatback. Recline all you want (at the cost of your own Kneeroon) and provide more kneeroom for the person behind you.

Seats are way too close together they shouldn't offer any recline at all.
 
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tistpaa727
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:01 pm

Personally, I like this idea. It's incredibly annoying when the person in front of you is all of a sudden in your lap. You can't work and you can't eat (when there is the option).
Don't sweat the little things.
 
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:03 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
... I know how much I hate it when someone does it to me.


Thank-you. I'm with you on this one as well.
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Re: Delta announces reduction in recline on A320 fleet

Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:15 pm

Seems fair. Drives me crazy when the person in front of me reclines into my space. I never recline because I don’t want to intrude on the person behind me. I think removal of recline is great regardless of the airline.
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:17 pm

Something had to give. As they cram more seats into these aircraft, reclining becomes a bigger nuisance to those seated behind the reclining passenger. You practically end up with the back of their head in your lap. I don't recline domestically because I know how annoying it is when someone does it to me. Also, IIRC, the longest flights that DL uses the A320 on are midcons like LGA-DEN, so for those who must recline, at least these aren't being used on the longest domestic routes.
777PHX wrote:
I don't care who announced it, I like it. I refuse to recline into someone else and I hate when someone does it to me. I flew DEN-LHR in Y a few weeks ago and the muppet in front of me was reclined from wheels up to top of descent.

Same here! There's a special place in hell for people like that. I especially "enjoy" when they are told by the FA to move their seat up for meal service, only to recline again as soon as the FA has moved onto another row... :roll:
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mbmbos
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Re: Delta announces reduction in recline on A320 fleet

Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:17 pm

It seems many of you are disinclined to recline. :-)

I seem to recall Miss Manners weighing in on this issue about twenty years ago. Her rule of thumb was a polite passenger should only recline on very long flights, particularly night flights, and only after the meal has been served and trays cleared.

If someone is boorish enough to recline immediately after takeoff, I make no effort to be considerate in my own seat. Mind you, I don't go out of my way to to be mean but if I need to reach for my underseat bag and I have to bang around because the jerk in front of me has reclined, I do so. If I need to balance my weight on the back of his seat to stand up to go to the lav, I do so.
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klm617
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:26 pm

kalvado wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Why doesn't this surprise me. Citing customer comfort as the reason for giving you less how ironic.

Thing is, there is only that much space - and your recline may mean less room for me or vice versa. So it can work both ways.
THose in the last row will definitely benefit (got smashed a few times), those by the bulkhead definitely loose(been there once). Those in between can either benefit from being able to open the laptop or loose from more back strain.


So if they were really concerned about the customers comfort why not take a row or two out of seats.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:28 pm

MaksFly wrote:
This is only an issue as they reduced seat pitch, especially in F.

So less seat pitch and no recline.... how is it different from Spirit? :)

Or is this a payment from Boeing? Lol as it effects airbus aircraft.


Price wise it's different you'll still have to pay more on Delta for the experience you were trying to avoid on Spirit.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
kalvado
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:38 pm

klm617 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Why doesn't this surprise me. Citing customer comfort as the reason for giving you less how ironic.

Thing is, there is only that much space - and your recline may mean less room for me or vice versa. So it can work both ways.
THose in the last row will definitely benefit (got smashed a few times), those by the bulkhead definitely loose(been there once). Those in between can either benefit from being able to open the laptop or loose from more back strain.


So if they were really concerned about the customers comfort why not take a row or two out of seats.

Because that means spreading revenue lost from those seats over the rest of a plane, 5-7% bump of ticket price - and loosing sales.
Overall, this is about allocation of limited resource among certain number of people. Paying more for the resource is a common approach in ideal world. However with each square inch on a plane being pretty expensive, and ticket cost often being about a day of work for 1 hour of flight, many people are looking for low cost option and willing to put up with some discomfort.
So it becomes a question of creating tolerable condition for least possible amount of cash. You can be compassionate all you can - but there is a budget.
 
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Re: Delta announces reduction in recline on A320 fleet

Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:38 pm

I almost never recline my seat on daytime flights. Since DL has basically 0 redeyes operated by 320s these days, I don't expect I'll be affected by this change. If they decide to apply the same change to the 321s or 738/9s in the future, then it might start having more of an impact on redeye passengers.
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Re: Delta announces reduction in recline on A320 fleet

Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:54 pm

First Class i like the recline option and use it. In coach It's too minor an amount to be really helpful in todays density. I prefer no recline like Allegiant. No fights over people reclining. I broke a laptop screen when the person in front slammed their seat back in coach. I've also been on a flight when people got in a fight over someone reclining their seat. I think delta is right in coach on this one. First, i think any seats with 38" or more pitch should do a good recline. Deltas A220 have a not so hot 37" so might be the right call in F on this plane.
 
eurotrader85
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Re: Delta announces reduction in recline on A320 fleet

Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:04 pm

Excellent move and reckon more carriers will follow suit in due course. Sure it is a ploy as the pitch gets shorter and shorter, but does help stem the increasing misery of economy. Everyone knows the unwritten rule in Y that it is just plain inconsiderate if someone is sitting behind you.

Had a win back the other week when a muppet in front decided he needed to full recline for an 1hr 20 min flight. Knees went into the back of the seat to his annoyance until he gave in, got the picture and sat up. Might have slightly ruined my trousers but soooo worth it.
 
alfa164
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:07 pm

kalvado wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Why doesn't this surprise me. Citing customer comfort as the reason for giving you less how ironic.

Thing is, there is only that much space - and your recline may mean less room for me or vice versa. So it can work both ways. THose in the last row will definitely benefit (got smashed a few times), those by the bulkhead definitely loose(been there once). Those in between can either benefit from being able to open the laptop or loose from more back strain.


:checkmark: With more and more passengers wanting to use their laptops or the IFE, limiting the recline of the seat inf front is the only way to alleviate the pain of having a headrest and/or someone's dirty hair staring you in the face.

There is nothing "ironic" about it; nobody is "giving you less". Of course, that distinction may be lost on someone who only wants to whine...

:roll:

MD80Ttail wrote:
I don’t understand all of the vitriol regarding smaller seats and reclines. Most travelers want cheap. Period. That’s a well known fact and people express this with their spending. The airlines are just giving people what they want. Then I see complaints the seats are too small. Talking out of both sides of their mouths. People that want more comfort have options. They can choose a level of service and comfort they want to pay for. Basic economy, economy, prem economy, biz, first ect. I realize not all airlines offer all products so they are even free to choose which airline to fly. Supply and demand. Really simple.


:checkmark: THIS. The biggest whiners are the ones who always demand lower fares... and claim not to understand when airlines are forced to reduce service or comfort levels to accommodate them. It gets old...
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910A
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:23 pm

itripreport wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
What's exactly the use of an anonymous announcement?


https://www.ajc.com/blog/airport/delta- ... TXQEnSdaK/

Its slowly making its way into the news, Delta will be reducing seat recline on its airbus fleet.


At this time only the 320, not the 319 or 321.
 
DenverTed
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Re: Delta announces reduction in recline on A320 fleet

Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:26 pm

Seat recline, the movable armrest, the light, the window shade, the fan, overhead bin space should just follow black and white non negotiable rules for use. If the seats recline too much or the fan has to much latitude, that is a problem with the equipment, not the operator.
Maybe they need to have one side of the plane with recline and one side with fixed upright seats. Obviously personal preference varies.
 
klm617
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:28 pm

alfa164 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Why doesn't this surprise me. Citing customer comfort as the reason for giving you less how ironic.

Thing is, there is only that much space - and your recline may mean less room for me or vice versa. So it can work both ways. THose in the last row will definitely benefit (got smashed a few times), those by the bulkhead definitely loose(been there once). Those in between can either benefit from being able to open the laptop or loose from more back strain.


:checkmark: With more and more passengers wanting to use their laptops or the IFE, limiting the recline of the seat inf front is the only way to alleviate the pain of having a headrest and/or someone's dirty hair staring you in the face.

There is nothing "ironic" about it; nobody is "giving you less". Of course, that distinction may be lost on someone who only wants to whine...

:roll:

MD80Ttail wrote:
I don’t understand all of the vitriol regarding smaller seats and reclines. Most travelers want cheap. Period. That’s a well known fact and people express this with their spending. The airlines are just giving people what they want. Then I see complaints the seats are too small. Talking out of both sides of their mouths. People that want more comfort have options. They can choose a level of service and comfort they want to pay for. Basic economy, economy, prem economy, biz, first ect. I realize not all airlines offer all products so they are even free to choose which airline to fly. Supply and demand. Really simple.


:checkmark: THIS. The biggest whiners are the ones who always demand lower fares... and claim not to understand when airlines are forced to reduce service or comfort levels to accommodate them. It gets old...


Yes and if we'd want cheap we'd fly F9, NK or G4 we chose Delta and their premium service because we want a better travel experience. We don't want the same experience as the ULCC at higher fares.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Delta announces reduction in recline on A320 fleet

Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:29 pm

The PR spin reaches new highs. It's amazing that reducing a comfort item is a "good thing on short flights" according to Gary Leff. Recline on the A320 wouldn't be a problem if DL didn't go with 36" pitch in F and 30" in coach.Incredible how paying hundreds of dollars for a nicer seat isn't enough to "earn" comfort.

A loss of recline is big for me. I'm always careful not to bother anyone behind me, and there's sometimes situations where recline isn't an issue at all--like an empty seat behind you.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Delta announces reduction in recline on A320 fleet

Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:33 pm

I actually dont usually recline as much as I used to. Only really on long flights do I recline, or if I'm really sleepy.

Whenever I do recline I feel bad for the person behind me, but then I remind myself that that's the nature of air travel these days and that they can recline too.
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Elshad
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Re: Delta announces reduction in recline on A320 fleet

Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:36 pm

Recline should be banned in economy class completely in my opinion. It's unfair on those sitting behind.
 
DarthLobster
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Re: Delta announces reduction in recline on A320 fleet

Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:01 pm

All carriers should lock all the seats regardless. It’s a d*** move to the person behind you and doesn’t provide enough actual recline to be of any use. Oh, and it’s one more thing to break
 
MaksFly
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Re: Delta announces reduction in recline on A320 fleet

Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:08 pm

It is funny... all of these people who are saying this is a good move... also swore off Spirit for doing the same thing. :)

Only difference now I suppose is spirit has thicker cushions and maybe 1” less pitch?
 
AIR MALTA
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Re: Delta announces reduction in recline on A320 fleet

Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:10 pm

Awful. I travel a lot and on early morning services I recline my seat in economy after the drinks service. This is to compensate for the early wake up. And since my work sends me everywhere in the world in Economy, I refuse to work when I fly. It is called Economy/Tourist class for a reason. And if somebody reclines, I recline too.
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WkndWanderer
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Re: Major US carrier announces reduction in Recline

Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:12 pm

777PHX wrote:
I don't care who announced it, I like it. I refuse to recline into someone else and I hate when someone does it to me. I flew DEN-LHR in Y a few weeks ago and the muppet in front of me was reclined from wheels up to top of descent.


I generally agree on daytime and shorter flights or during meal services, but reclining a seat on an 8.5-9 hour overnight flight like DEN-LHR is pretty reasonable.
 
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ro1960
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Re: Delta announces reduction in recline on A320 fleet

Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:13 pm

Most airlines in Europe have abandoned reclining in coach long ago. At least the ones I fly frequently (AF, U2, IB, VY). I think FR too. On short flights it's really not a problem, rather better given the reduced pitch. I recently flew CX in Y and beside the fact that 9-abreast on a 777 is quite comfortable, the reclined seat makes the IFE come down to you chest which is not very practical for watching movies!
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alfa164
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Re: Delta announces reduction in recline on A320 fleet

Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:16 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
The PR spin reaches new highs. It's amazing that reducing a comfort item is a "good thing on short flights" according to Gary Leff. Recline on the A320 wouldn't be a problem if DL didn't go with 36" pitch in F and 30" in coach.Incredible how paying hundreds of dollars for a nicer seat isn't enough to "earn" comfort. A loss of recline is big for me. I'm always careful not to bother anyone behind me, and there's sometimes situations where recline isn't an issue at all--like an empty seat behind you.


What you call "reducing a comfort item" for one passenger can also be called "increasing a comfort item" for the person behind him. And if you are truly "always careful not to bother anyone" behind you... then you won't be reclining your seat anyway.

The great news for you is this won't affect you at all!

:)
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4366
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Delta announces reduction in recline on A320 fleet

Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:22 pm

The legacy coach even on this "business heavy" plane is basically allegiant. No reason to pretend that recline is a luxury item anymore. It's an outdated feature from a time when there was actually space to recline.
 
TW870
Posts: 985
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

Re: Delta announces reduction in recline on A320 fleet

Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:26 pm

Don't care at all, and this would not impact my decision to purchase. I don't think there is enough value in domestic F to purchase it. If my upgrade clears, great. If not, I'll see you in the back. Overall, while I think DL service is great, they need to improve the food and beverage game in domestic F to gain my business. Better food quality, better food quantity, better wine. Right now, you might as well just eat in the Skyclub and sit on an exit row because you get the same space and better food.

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