MGC1191
Topic Author
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:20 am

30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:17 pm

Hello all,

I don’t have any news sources or anything other than what employees are posting on social media. Apparently there’s 30+ aircraft out of service due to hail damage at DFW.

Does anybody here have any more info? Sounds expensive.
 
Ishrion
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:33 pm

MGC1191 wrote:
Hello all,

I don’t have any news sources or anything other than what employees are posting on social media. Apparently there’s 30+ aircraft out of service due to hail damage at DFW.

Does anybody here have any more info? Sounds expensive.


It most likely happened. Tons of cancellations and diversions, the spring storms lately have been costly.
 
Woodreau
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:46 pm

Generically speaking, this is normal.

You have to go to each dent and check to see if it is within allowable limits as described in the structural repair manual. If it’s within allowable limits, it needs to be documented in the maintenance tracking system and cleared. If it’s not within allowable limits then it needs to be repaired. It’s the having to check each dent that takes a while. Multiply that by the number of planes you’re mentioning, well there are only so many mechanics on duty. The planes are out of service until someone gets to them.

If it has to be repaired, that will take longer.
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A3801000
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:51 pm

Here is a hail map from today:

http://www.interactivehailmaps.com/hail ... l-13-2019/

Shows San Antonio and Dallas hit rather bad, here is Dallas: https://maps.interactivehailmaps.com/Ha ... 2019-04-13
 
dfwjim1
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:02 pm

When I lived in Dallas, a few years ago there was a major hail storm that damaged several FedEx aircraft.
 
Max Q
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:32 am

Woodreau wrote:
Generically speaking, this is normal.

You have to go to each dent and check to see if it is within allowable limits as described in the structural repair manual. If it’s within allowable limits, it needs to be documented in the maintenance tracking system and cleared. If it’s not within allowable limits then it needs to be repaired. It’s the having to check each dent that takes a while. Multiply that by the number of planes you’re mentioning, well there are only so many mechanics on duty. The planes are out of service until someone gets to them.

If it has to be repaired, that will take longer.



How do they repair that kind of damage?
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spinkid
Posts: 1866
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:41 am

Ouch! combined with the Max being out of service this is not what anyone wants to deal with right now.
 
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william
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:44 am

Max Q wrote:
Woodreau wrote:
Generically speaking, this is normal.

You have to go to each dent and check to see if it is within allowable limits as described in the structural repair manual. If it’s within allowable limits, it needs to be documented in the maintenance tracking system and cleared. If it’s not within allowable limits then it needs to be repaired. It’s the having to check each dent that takes a while. Multiply that by the number of planes you’re mentioning, well there are only so many mechanics on duty. The planes are out of service until someone gets to them.

If it has to be repaired, that will take longer.



How do they repair that kind of damage?


Well a paintless dent repair outfit will erect a circus size tent on the westside of the airport near AA maintenance hangars and get to work.................I kid, I kid :lol: :lol: :lol:

I imagine these roving gypsys are setting up shop all over the Metroplex by now.
 
usairways787
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:52 am

It's 44 as of now.
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ctrabs0114
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:13 am

When I swung by Founders Plaza at around 5 this afternoon, I noticed a few planes staging up by the north pads. And there were very few departures around that time, so that might explain why they were parked up there.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), 739 (DL), 712 (DL)
Next: AA: DFW-PHL (752), PHL-MIA (763), MIA-LAX (77W), LAX-DFW (789)
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:46 am

usairways787 wrote:
It's 44 as of now.


WOW!!! That is crazy
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hOMSaR
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:20 am

How do they know a plane has dents from hail in the first place? I mean, obviously, you might see some of them, but do they have to do a full thorough check of every plane on the ground during a hail storm to find out if there were any dents in the first place? Do they have to check the whole fuselage, wing, engines, tail, etc., or just certain specific parts?
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Cointrin330
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:25 am

This happened once before that I can recall, in May 2011. Over 40 American Airlines jets were damaged due to a spring storm that hit DFW. I was flying from LGA to ORD and back on the same day the following morning from the storm and heard announcements about this repeatedly. The next day I flew JFK-MXP and our 767-300ER was subbed out from one that was due to come in from DFW that day and replaced with one that operated an STI-JFK flight, for the same reason.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:39 am

It happens in the middle of the country mega hubs.

I vaguely remember TWA and STL having something similar.

I’ll get the planes flying again they just have to go thru an inspection
 
WIederling
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:51 am

Woodreau wrote:
If it has to be repaired, that will take longer.


How is that fixed?

I suppose not the way this is done on steel body parts on automobiles: heat the center with a flame or resistive point heater.
When the material shrinks from cooling it pulls flat.
Murphy is an optimist
 
MGC1191
Topic Author
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:31 pm

Does anyone have a rough count of what is damaged?
 
bfitzflyer
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:38 pm

Hope no serious damage. Given AA dominates DFW and no max8 right now, if more birds taken out of service, could be challenging.
 
Delta28L
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:34 pm

bfitzflyer wrote:
Hope no serious damage. Given AA dominates DFW and no max8 right now, if more birds taken out of service, could be challenging.


Time to pull out some mad dogs from retirement and put them back into service.
 
Dalmd88
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:00 pm

So to answer a couple of questions; First how do you know it's been damaged? That is pretty easy. One quick look at the upper surface of the wing areas or the crown of the plane will show some dents. It's not like only a couple of dents. The surface will look like a golf ball. The wing itself typically does not get damaged, it is made from pretty thick aluminum. The composite panels and the slats typically show the dents. Same goes for the crown of the fuselage. That area is usually one of the thinnest skins on the aircraft and is very susceptible to dents form large hail.

OK, now we know it is damaged, how to fix it? It is not like your car. No dry ice, heat, dent puller contraptions. The repair manual has dent limits for every structure on the airplane. They vary depending on location and construction of the part you are inspecting. It is usually a formula; Y=longest axis, X= depth. Those numbers go on a chart to give you the repair status. Usually there are three areas. No further action required, it usually gets tagged with a small sticker with a tracking number so in the future we all know that one is OK. Second condition is must be repaired with in so many flight hours, again tagged for tracking and likely will get fixed at next major maintenance event. Third status, fix it now.

This leads us to how to do the permanent or semi permanent fix. If the diameter is really small, like less than 1/4" (0.250) a temp fix can be done. Drill it out and install a blind rivet, a high strength pop rivet. This will get changed to a solid rivet at the next major event. This route is taken due to access. With the blind rivet you don't have to take apart the inside of the cabin to install it. If it's bigger than 1/4" the damage has to be cut out and a small patch has to be installed. There may be allowances to install it with blind rivets and do a permanent repair within a short time frame, or it may require a solid rivet repair now.

If the damage is on a removable composite panel or control surface, that item is usually removed and replaced. Those items typically are repaired in a shop environment

That in a nutshell is why it takes so long to recover from an hail storm at a hub. Same story for a severe lighting event. Every mechanic is now tasked with the inspection and then the repair phase. A lot of this work has to be done with a cherry picker lift. With 40+ aircraft effected it takes a lot of time.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:16 pm

Dalmd88 wrote:
So to answer a couple of questions ...

Thanks for the detailed reply. I always learn from your posts.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:43 pm

As weather forecasting (and even the so called now-casting) improve, how many minutes (hours) of warning will it take to fly planes out of the immediate area to avoid hail damage? I suspect there are specialists in back offices who are working on this. And how much has it cost to repair a badly damaged plane versus extreme fleet management to avoid the damage?
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ctrabs0114
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:50 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
It happens in the middle of the country mega hubs.

I vaguely remember TWA and STL having something similar.

I’ll get the planes flying again they just have to go thru an inspection


WN had a similar situation last year at DEN, as I recall. I'm sure UA has had similar issues with hail damage at DEN over the years.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), 739 (DL), 712 (DL)
Next: AA: DFW-PHL (752), PHL-MIA (763), MIA-LAX (77W), LAX-DFW (789)
 
B6JFKH81
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:05 pm

Out of curiosity, with an event of this magnitude and the time it takes to measure, map, log and mark all the damage, does AA fly in extra MX and QC from other MX hubs to help with the exponential increase of workload?
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:44 am

jfklganyc wrote:
It happens in the middle of the country mega hubs.

I vaguely remember TWA and STL having something similar.

I’ll get the planes flying again they just have to go thru an inspection

STL had a tornado and hail that damaged the terminal, and some Tw/Aa and WN aircraft.
Several years before that, I stood on the zipper line watching a small tornado run down the runway centerline. Welcome to the Midwest...
 
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zululima
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:32 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
This happened once before that I can recall, in May 2011. Over 40 American Airlines jets were damaged due to a spring storm that hit DFW. I was flying from LGA to ORD and back on the same day the following morning from the storm and heard announcements about this repeatedly. The next day I flew JFK-MXP and our 767-300ER was subbed out from one that was due to come in from DFW that day and replaced with one that operated an STI-JFK flight, for the same reason.


Actually that one was 65+ aircraft out of service, although the total was for the whole airport. I remember it because it was the same storm that clobbered my car which was in the employee lot. There was an AA 757 I saw on the ramp a few days later with holes punched through the composite flight control surfaces.
I didn't get a 'Harumph' outta that guy!
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:20 am

"Let's give them a call." :rotfl:

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IWMBH
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:49 am

Any details on the planes that are damaged? The carrier and aircraft type for example?
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:51 pm

Max Q wrote:
Woodreau wrote:
Generically speaking, this is normal.

You have to go to each dent and check to see if it is within allowable limits as described in the structural repair manual. If it’s within allowable limits, it needs to be documented in the maintenance tracking system and cleared. If it’s not within allowable limits then it needs to be repaired. It’s the having to check each dent that takes a while. Multiply that by the number of planes you’re mentioning, well there are only so many mechanics on duty. The planes are out of service until someone gets to them.

If it has to be repaired, that will take longer.



How do they repair that kind of damage?


With a Texas Doubler of course! :smile:
 
MIflyer12
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:23 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
As weather forecasting (and even the so called now-casting) improve, how many minutes (hours) of warning will it take to fly planes out of the immediate area to avoid hail damage?


U.S. weather forecasting is pretty good for tornadoes, for example, into populated areas. Even twenty years ago with m ore than an hour's warning they were giving paths around Memphis to the minute, and accurate to within a couple of minutes. The problem, though, begins with the many AAircraft that may be on the ground at DFW in peak times - and it's not like scrambling fighter jets.
 
traindoc
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:56 pm

Indeed we had a nasty hail storm in Texas on the 13th. This is a picture of a cactus in my yard in San Antonio. If hail can drive right thru a hard cactus, it can certainly beat up an aluminum skinned airplane./Users/svancleave/Downloads/IMG_4648.JPG
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:05 pm

Looks like tomorrow afternoon we could have another round of severe weather up here in the Dallas/Ft. Worth Metroplex.

Hope our home doesn't get with hail :)
Whatever
 
737max8
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:21 pm

Hail events are just crazy. Last year at DEN, WN got slammed but UA on the other side of the field had nothing. Then during this event, DFW got slammed but Love Field 12 miles down the road got nothing...WN was lucky this time.
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Pyrex
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:09 am

zululima wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
This happened once before that I can recall, in May 2011. Over 40 American Airlines jets were damaged due to a spring storm that hit DFW. I was flying from LGA to ORD and back on the same day the following morning from the storm and heard announcements about this repeatedly. The next day I flew JFK-MXP and our 767-300ER was subbed out from one that was due to come in from DFW that day and replaced with one that operated an STI-JFK flight, for the same reason.


Actually that one was 65+ aircraft out of service, although the total was for the whole airport. I remember it because it was the same storm that clobbered my car which was in the employee lot. There was an AA 757 I saw on the ramp a few days later with holes punched through the composite flight control surfaces.


I was actually in Dallas the day it happened, and flying out of DFW the following morning. The airport was in complete chaos when I got there (people sleeping in cots everywhere), and I had to stand over two hours in line just to rebook my flight. Once I finally got a flight, had to wait for the mechanics to clear the plane before I was allowed to board. I remember because I was in the AA lounge waiting for it to happen when I got a call from my prior employer offering me a job.
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B757Forever
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Re: 30+ aircraft damaged at DFW?

Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:57 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Woodreau wrote:
Generically speaking, this is normal.

You have to go to each dent and check to see if it is within allowable limits as described in the structural repair manual. If it’s within allowable limits, it needs to be documented in the maintenance tracking system and cleared. If it’s not within allowable limits then it needs to be repaired. It’s the having to check each dent that takes a while. Multiply that by the number of planes you’re mentioning, well there are only so many mechanics on duty. The planes are out of service until someone gets to them.

If it has to be repaired, that will take longer.



How do they repair that kind of damage?


With a Texas Doubler of course! :smile:



I got that one! :lol:
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