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marcogr12
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Is Aegean making a mistake not taking any RJs?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:28 pm

It's a miracle how this airline survived the "economic-crisis" hurricane that devastated the country and still has its citizens at their wits' end,left overtaxed and underpaid..But A3 has seen a sturdy growth the last couple of years mainly from its hub in Athens and secondly from other regional airports, HER being top on the list, reaching 9mil pax in 2018..It has also managed to withstand the invasion of LCCs, with FR,Volotea,Easyjet and Wizzair chomping away at its market share..One has to mention though that Ryanair exited recently the domestic market except for two routes,ATH-JTR and SKG-CHQ..The rest belongs to A3, small greek regional carriers like Astra Airlines and Sky Express and a small portion to Volotea that flies from ATH to HER,RHO,JMK,JTR..
Aegean's fleet consists of 61 a/c, A320 and A321s, with just one A319 and Olympic Air's Dashes,Dash 8-Q400,,Dash-100, ATR42-600s, that serve little islands,POS routes and non-POS routes but also routes in the Balkans,Southern Italy and Malta..They have on order 30 A320/321neos with 12 options..
Now, i know that the Q400 is a very fast,reliable litte prop jet but Aegean's gap between that and the A320s is very big..about 100pax..The Q400s have 78seats and the A320s 174..Eventually the only A319 will be retired..So i was wondering about their obvious lack of interest in acquiring/leasing any regional jets to bridge that gap,to launch new routes,to increase frequency and strengthen their hub(s) and to replace the A320s where they are too big,esp.during winter time..Yes,the costs and complexities of finding and operating the right regional jet are high but the advantages offset the disadvantages..So many airlines that have regional jets in their fleet can't be wrong..LH,LX,SK,AF,IB,LO,BA,KL etc..Can they?
Unless of course, somewhere down the road they see that a better strategy would be to go the LCC-way and do what LH did with EW, IB with VY, LX with WK and EI..with itself...But then that gap would still be there and let's not forget that the aforementioned airlines,apart from EI,do have regional jets serving a lot of destinations..And the more the LCC war takes over Europe and Greece, the more i believe they will need the RJs to hold their own against the LCC giants..Am i off base thinking the way i do about Aegean?
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
BestWestern
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Re: Is Aegean making a mistake not taking any RJs?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:42 pm

Aegean have successfully chartered a course of successful and profitable growth and found profitable markets where many saw they would not survive, even in the depths of financial crisis.

They know where the profitable markets are and they know how to approach it. Unlike many other airlines, they are feeding long haul, so depth and breath of frequencies that RJs provide aren’t required.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
ahmetdouas
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Re: Is Aegean making a mistake not taking any RJs?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:44 pm

I think Aegean has a very specific market. They make good cash in the summer on domestic flights (ATH-JMK can be 300 eur return for a 20 minute flight!), and print money on the LHR route where all the affluent Greeks fly them and BA simply is awful. Don't forget, Greece has a huge expat population due to the crisis, so it has actually helped Aegean in a way as many Greeks fly home as often as they can, and the downfall in domestic tourism is partly overturned by the increase of tourism generally. So I think Aegean will do well to stay with its current philosophy of not expanding so much, mainly renewing their fleet. The turboprops are fine for now, I think when they get old then they can get new RJ's like the A220.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Is Aegean making a mistake not taking any RJs?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:26 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
So many airlines that have regional jets in their fleet can't be wrong..LH,LX,SK,AF,IB,LO,BA,KL etc..Can they?


There are primarily hub and spoke airlines, and there are primarily point to point airlines. You don't have to look far to find big, successful examples of point to point airlines with very limited fleet types: Southwest, Ryanair, easyJet, among them.
 
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aerolimani
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Re: Is Aegean making a mistake not taking any RJs?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:45 pm

ahmetdouas wrote:
I think Aegean has a very specific market. They make good cash in the summer on domestic flights (ATH-JMK can be 300 eur return for a 20 minute flight!), and print money on the LHR route where all the affluent Greeks fly them and BA simply is awful. Don't forget, Greece has a huge expat population due to the crisis, so it has actually helped Aegean in a way as many Greeks fly home as often as they can, and the downfall in domestic tourism is partly overturned by the increase of tourism generally. So I think Aegean will do well to stay with its current philosophy of not expanding so much, mainly renewing their fleet. The turboprops are fine for now, I think when they get old then they can get new RJ's like the A220.

Agree with your assessment.

However, the A220 is actually in the category of a small mainline jet. These I could imagine possibly being useful, if the price were right.

As to actual RJ’s, I don’t think they would be a good move. RJ’s would not provide any benefit I can think of in serving the needs of A3. Reliable, solid, fuel-efficient turboprops do the job well, and in a market where there isn’t an anti-propellor bias.
 
Galwayman
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Re: Is Aegean making a mistake not taking any RJs?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:59 pm

I think the economic downturn and demise of dreadful Olympic helped A3 .. they were able to lower costs and renegotiate contracts

The A220 would be perfect for them imho
 
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OA260
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Re: Is Aegean making a mistake not taking any RJs?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:30 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
Unless of course, somewhere down the road they see that a better strategy would be to go the LCC-way and do what LH did with EW, IB with VY, LX with WK and EI..with itself...But then that gap would still be there and let's not forget that the aforementioned airlines,apart from EI,do have regional jets serving a lot of destinations..And the more the LCC war takes over Europe and Greece, the more i believe they will need the RJs to hold their own against the LCC giants..Am i off base thinking the way i do about Aegean?


A3 already have a low cost base compared to others. They dont need to go LCC. The OA props work very well for the Domestics and local Balkans where larger aircraft would be too much of an aircraft for. Other Balkan routes might benefit from the A220 and Cyprus , Middle East although the A320 certainly work a lot of the time and indeed are full. The A220 range from ATH would offer a lot of options for route expansion where A320 was just too much for certain places. Im sure they are/will be looking at the A220 closely for future orders. For Winter I could see them on a few routes currently operated that warrant an A320 in May-October but not November-April. I can also see A3 getting a larger A/C then the 321 for certain routes including LHR which continues to bring in large profits. Even on the old state owned OA with A340s LHR made money when most other routes lost millions.
 
marcogr12
Topic Author
Posts: 449
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Re: Is Aegean making a mistake not taking any RJs?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:35 pm

I dont think they have any intention of getting WBs and it wouldnt be economically sound to do so just for LHR..The A220-300 is proving to be a great plane for the 150 pax category and indeed would be great addition..I dont know about the A220-100 which is heavier than its competitor the E2-190..Maybe they should ask LX,though it would give A3 a foothold on ATH-LCY
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Is Aegean making a mistake not taking any RJs?

Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:04 am

I will say no. The regional operation at OA (an A3 subsidiary) is purely domestic (plus possibly from Greece to LCA), and thus turboprops are perfect for those short routes. What I would say, however, is that perhaps the DH8A fleet should be retired soon (OA once had 5 DH8As but is down to 2.) and replaced with the AT46 (likely via a lease; all of OA's and A3's planes are leased).

Internationally, A3 is smart to not operate any routes that can't fill a mainline jet, although I don't get the reason behind that lone A319 in the fleet. The BCS3 (A220-300) is an A319-sized jet.
 
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aerolimani
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Re: Is Aegean making a mistake not taking any RJs?

Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:10 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I will say no. The regional operation at OA (an A3 subsidiary) is purely domestic (plus possibly from Greece to LCA), and thus turboprops are perfect for those short routes. What I would say, however, is that perhaps the DH8A fleet should be retired soon (OA once had 5 DH8As but is down to 2.) and replaced with the AT46 (likely via a lease; all of OA's and A3's planes are leased).

Internationally, A3 is smart to not operate any routes that can't fill a mainline jet, although I don't get the reason behind that lone A319 in the fleet. The BCS3 (A220-300) is an A319-sized jet.

There's still some really short runways in the OA network. I wonder if even the ATR42-600S would be capable enough.
 
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Melbourne
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Re: Is Aegean making a mistake not taking any RJs?

Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:42 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I will say no. The regional operation at OA (an A3 subsidiary) is purely domestic (plus possibly from Greece to LCA), and thus turboprops are perfect for those short routes. What I would say, however, is that perhaps the DH8A fleet should be retired soon (OA once had 5 DH8As but is down to 2.) and replaced with the AT46 (likely via a lease; all of OA's and A3's planes are leased).

Internationally, A3 is smart to not operate any routes that can't fill a mainline jet, although I don't get the reason behind that lone A319 in the fleet. The BCS3 (A220-300) is an A319-sized jet.


Many of Olympic Air's domestic operations are operated by Aegean Airbus A320s and the same said for Aegean international services to say Skopje, Zagreb, Sarajevo, Izmir, Malta etc operated by Q400s of Olympic Air.

As fore retiring the Dash 8 100s these aircraft are required for flights to places such as KZS, JTY etc.
 
Blerg
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Re: Is Aegean making a mistake not taking any RJs?

Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:59 am

One word: volume.

Filling those A320s in summer is an easy task while once winter comes and passenger numbers drop, so do Aegean's fares. I think they realize that there are very few destinations where they can make money in winter so they dump fares (especially for connections) so as to bring all those routes as close to break-even as possible. In such a way they don't lose in winter what they made in summer. I think it's a pretty smart strategy that seems to be working for them.

As for LCA, I don't know why they would need a regional jet. Larnaca is actually Aegean's top selling international destination. Numbers also seem to be growing:

Q1-3 2017: 749.826
Q1-3 2018: 835.942

No one comes close to the number of frequencies, flights and seats on LCA-ATH that Aegean has meaning they probably carry around 75% of the market, especially now when Cobalt went bust.

I am sure ATH is happy Aegean isn't adding more aircraft to its fleet as they seem to be nearing capacity especially during the busy periods of the day.

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