JetBlue To Launch JFK-GYE

jetbluefan1 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:59 pm

This is briefly mentioned in some of the other JetBlue threads, but we now have a press release with flight times and a launch date:

http://blueir.investproductions.com/inv ... -155948658

This will be the longest route in the B6 network and will be serviced by the new A321neo. Based on the flight times (2pm departure from JFK and 5:15am return), I would assume that this flight is not using slots that B6 currently uses on another JFK market.

I find it surprising that no other airline flies non-stop from NYC to GYE. I would have thought UA would serve this market from EWR (or even DL from JFK).

B6 has already announced their intentions to use the 321neo on JFK-GEO, and I wonder if JFK-UIO is not far behind either.

aemoreira1981 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:03 pm

jetbluefan1 wrote:
This is briefly mentioned in some of the other JetBlue threads, but we now have a press release with flight times and a launch date:

http://blueir.investproductions.com/inv ... -155948658

This will be the longest route in the B6 network and will be serviced by the new A321neo. Based on the flight times (2pm departure from JFK and 5:15am return), I would assume that this flight is not using slots that B6 currently uses on another JFK market.

I find it surprising that no other airline flies non-stop from NYC to GYE. I would have thought UA would serve this market from EWR (or even DL from JFK).

B6 has already announced their intentions to use the 321neo on JFK-GEO, and I wonder if JFK-UIO is not far behind either.

XL flies this route on a wide body (B763). This will put pressure on LATAM to reduce costs since B6 is competing with a narrow body.

jetbluefan1 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:19 pm

jetbluefan1 wrote:
This is briefly mentioned in some of the other JetBlue threads, but we now have a press release with flight times and a launch date:

http://blueir.investproductions.com/inv ... -155948658

This will be the longest route in the B6 network and will be serviced by the new A321neo. Based on the flight times (2pm departure from JFK and 5:15am return), I would assume that this flight is not using slots that B6 currently uses on another JFK market.

I find it surprising that no other US airline flies non-stop from NYC to GYE. I would have thought UA would serve this market from EWR (or even DL from JFK).

B6 has already announced their intentions to use the 321neo on JFK-GEO, and I wonder if JFK-UIO is not far behind either.

jetbluefan1 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:21 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
This is briefly mentioned in some of the other JetBlue threads, but we now have a press release with flight times and a launch date:

http://blueir.investproductions.com/inv ... -155948658

This will be the longest route in the B6 network and will be serviced by the new A321neo. Based on the flight times (2pm departure from JFK and 5:15am return), I would assume that this flight is not using slots that B6 currently uses on another JFK market.

I find it surprising that no other airline flies non-stop from NYC to GYE. I would have thought UA would serve this market from EWR (or even DL from JFK).

B6 has already announced their intentions to use the 321neo on JFK-GEO, and I wonder if JFK-UIO is not far behind either.

XL flies this route on a wide body (B763). This will put pressure on LATAM to reduce costs since B6 is competing with a narrow body.

Thanks, I read the PR too quickly....no *US* airline flies this route. I have updated this accordingly.

Any idea how many seats XL has on that widebody? B6 will be sending a 200-seat all-core aircraft, which has low unit costs compared to its A320's (or the Mint-configured 321, obviously).

qfs · Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:32 pm

jetbluefan1 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
Any idea how many seats XL has on that widebody? B6 will be sending a 200-seat all-core aircraft, which has low unit costs compared to its A320's (or the Mint-configured 321, obviously).

I know LATAM has 28 flat bed seats & 189 standard seats according to SeatGuru.

SurfandSnow · Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:42 pm

Very exciting! B6's new aircraft will open up all kinds of wonderful possibilities. The A220 might be the perfect aircraft for the likes of EYW, SBA, SNA, STS, STT and various ski markets. The A321s could open up all kinds of opportunities in South America and Europe!

aemoreira1981 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:45 pm

jetbluefan1 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
This is briefly mentioned in some of the other JetBlue threads, but we now have a press release with flight times and a launch date:

http://blueir.investproductions.com/inv ... -155948658

This will be the longest route in the B6 network and will be serviced by the new A321neo. Based on the flight times (2pm departure from JFK and 5:15am return), I would assume that this flight is not using slots that B6 currently uses on another JFK market.

I find it surprising that no other airline flies non-stop from NYC to GYE. I would have thought UA would serve this market from EWR (or even DL from JFK).

B6 has already announced their intentions to use the 321neo on JFK-GEO, and I wonder if JFK-UIO is not far behind either.

XL flies this route on a wide body (B763). This will put pressure on LATAM to reduce costs since B6 is competing with a narrow body.

Thanks, I read the PR too quickly....no *US* airline flies this route. I have updated this accordingly.

Any idea how many seats XL has on that widebody? B6 will be sending a 200-seat all-core aircraft, which has low unit costs compared to its A320's (or the Mint-configured 321, obviously).

All LATAM B763 passenger frames are J30Y191...32”/18” in Y.

tphuang · Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:20 pm

As I said in JetBlue, a lot of demand on this route. This is one route I'm sure they've thought about for years, but couldn't operate due to not having enough range. If they play this right, maybe they'd be able to push LATAM out and add a daily A321NEO to UIO. The Ecuadorian population in NYC is huge. It's kind of mind boggling only a Latam 763 is serving this route along with charter business. Latam now has a huge cost issue on the hand trying to compete against A321NEO on this route. Would be curious to see which other island route will be made available by the range and economics of A321NEO.

This is not a route where lie flat makes sense. The fares just don't justify it.

Any guesses on whether non-LR A321NEO can make it on JFK-LIM? I thought it was high altitude, but it's actually at sea level. It's right at the edge of A321NEO range, but at least they don't have to worry about ETOPS.

MartijnNL · Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:20 pm

GYE, GEO, UIO... where are these places? I know codes can be looked up, but why not name the three cities for our convenience?

FSDan · Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:31 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
GYE, GEO, UIO... where are these places? I know codes can be looked up, but why not name the three cities for our convenience?

GYE = Guayaquil, Ecuador
GEO = Georgetown, Guyana
UIO = Quito, Ecuador

There are large Ecuadorian and Guyanese populations in NYC, so B6 could see success similar to what they've had in other large NYC-Latin America VFR markets (e.g. STI, SDQ, SJU).

FSDan · Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:35 pm

tphuang wrote:
If they play this right, maybe they'd be able to push LATAM out and add a daily A321NEO to UIO.

Even though JFK-GYE is within the operational limits of the 321neo, JFK-UIO might not be. GYE is at sea level and UIO is over 9,000 ft of elevation.

I think JFK-GEO would work well for B6, though, given their success with other NYC-Latin America VFR markets.

AA300B · Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:48 pm

Very good news for this market !

The demand on the route is outstanding. Latam has a daily 767 rotation going almost full both ways, and adding a second 767 frequency during peak summer months.

Eastern Airlines has also announced the launch of the JFK GYE route with a daily 767 operating as a charter modality starting May 1st 2019, making JetBlue the third airline to operate this market. As previously said, the Ecuadorian community in NYC area is huge, and I am confident this route will perform very well.

Continental used to operate a daily 738 rotation from EWR but dropped the route in 2008. Maybe they will consider re-joining this market in the near future? One can only hope.

jetsetter629 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:57 pm

Didn't B6 only recently open up GYE from FLL the last 6 months or so? Great to see them add this route!

And why does the Ecuadorian population in NYC skew towards GYE and not UIO? EQ for years bounced between UIO & GYE on their flights to JFK before recently dropping the route once the A332 left the fleet.

AA300B · Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:12 pm

jetsetter629 wrote:
Didn't B6 only recently open up GYE from FLL the last 6 months or so? Great to see them add this route!

And why does the Ecuadorian population in NYC skew towards GYE and not UIO? EQ for years bounced between UIO & GYE on their flights to JFK before recently dropping the route once the A332 left the fleet.

There is an important percentage of the Ecuadorian community in NY coming from the provinces of Azuay and Cañar, having GYE as the closest international airport (about 3 hours drive) and of course a big VFR market in Guayaquil as well.

It would not surprise me if they announce a Quito route from JFK as this market is currently unserved., however I am not sure of the performance of the A321NEO considering the altitude at UIO being about 7,300 ft.

jetbluefan1 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:40 pm

tphuang wrote:
As I said in JetBlue, a lot of demand on this route. This is one route I'm sure they've thought about for years, but couldn't operate due to not having enough range. If they play this right, maybe they'd be able to push LATAM out and add a daily A321NEO to UIO. The Ecuadorian population in NYC is huge. It's kind of mind boggling only a Latam 763 is serving this route along with charter business. Latam now has a huge cost issue on the hand trying to compete against A321NEO on this route. Would be curious to see which other island route will be made available by the range and economics of A321NEO.

This is not a route where lie flat makes sense. The fares just don't justify it.

Any guesses on whether non-LR A321NEO can make it on JFK-LIM? I thought it was high altitude, but it's actually at sea level. It's right at the edge of A321NEO range, but at least they don't have to worry about ETOPS.

This really does open up some more opportunities that others overlooked. Frankly, I'm surprised UA isn't flying this from EWR or DL from JFK. Much like B6's success to the VFR markets in the Caribbean, I expect northern South America to also be quite profitable.

MartijnNL wrote:
GYE, GEO, UIO... where are these places? I know codes can be looked up, but why not name the three cities for our convenience?

Because this is an aviation fanboy forum where people know global airport codes by heart :lol:

I remember in the good old days, when airliners.net automatically tagged the airport code by its name if you hovered over it. Man, what I'd give to have those days back.

jetsetter629 wrote:
Didn't B6 only recently open up GYE from FLL the last 6 months or so? Great to see them add this route!

And why does the Ecuadorian population in NYC skew towards GYE and not UIO? EQ for years bounced between UIO & GYE on their flights to JFK before recently dropping the route once the A332 left the fleet.

From what I understand, GYE-FLL has been off to a very strong start. UIO-FLL is gaining a second seasonal frequency too. Seems like B6 is building a little niche for itself in Ecuador.

AA300B wrote:
jetsetter629 wrote:
Didn't B6 only recently open up GYE from FLL the last 6 months or so? Great to see them add this route!

And why does the Ecuadorian population in NYC skew towards GYE and not UIO? EQ for years bounced between UIO & GYE on their flights to JFK before recently dropping the route once the A332 left the fleet.

There is an important percentage of the Ecuadorian community in NY coming from the provinces of Azuay and Cañar, having GYE as the closest international airport (about 3 hours drive) and of course a big VFR market in Guayaquil as well.

It would not surprise me if they announce a Quito route from JFK as this market is currently unserved., however I am not sure of the performance of the A321NEO considering the altitude at UIO being about 7,300 ft.

Thanks that's really helpful insight.

I am sure there are many New Yorkers who would love to check out the Galapagos, so not only does this market appear to have a VFR angle but also a leisure angle as well.

aemoreira1981 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:24 pm

jetsetter629 wrote:
Didn't B6 only recently open up GYE from FLL the last 6 months or so? Great to see them add this route!

And why does the Ecuadorian population in NYC skew towards GYE and not UIO? EQ for years bounced between UIO & GYE on their flights to JFK before recently dropping the route once the A332 left the fleet.

I think it’s operational. UIO is one of the highest airports in the world. This is where an EQ codeshare for feed could help. The Ecuadorian government will welcome a reputable carrier here like B6.

tphuang · Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:46 pm

jetbluefan1 wrote:
This really does open up some more opportunities that others overlooked. Frankly, I'm surprised UA isn't flying this from EWR or DL from JFK. Much like B6's success to the VFR markets in the Caribbean, I expect northern South America to also be quite profitable.

Is Ecuadorian community mostly located in Queens? That would be my guess why UA isn't flying it.
I don't see DL interested in battling B6 on a VFR route like this that would require probably a HD 757 or a widebody, since their A321NEO is not going into service yet. And same with GEO. They seem content to let B6 have VFR routes until they get really big like KIN.

I think B6 is at the point where they already added enough leisure beach destinations. Anymore will simply take away visitors from other leisure destinations. VFR on the other hand have their own unique demand which is expanding every year for most ethnic groups, do well during economic downturns, spend a lot on baggage fees and don't have high expecations for operation. And their cabin seems to be so much better than what Latam offers. Has a chance to become the next KIN/PAP.

These under served VFR routes seem to be so much better utilization of their slots than E90s to BTV or A320 to ABQ/RNO or even another flight to CUN. Kind of crazy how many more flights there are from NYC to MEX (14) when Ecuadorian community is like 2/3 the size of Mexican community in NYC and only a portion are from around Mexico city. Even accounting for business and leisure demand, the disparity is pretty large.

btw, not sure if you noticed, but they confirmed that A321NEO will use the new seating/IFE that they are putting on phase 2 of A320 reconfig. And I saw that they are expecting 8 deliveries this year with none in mint configuration. I'm a little disappointed by that. Guess any further mint expansion won't get announced for a while.

AA300B wrote:
There is an important percentage of the Ecuadorian community in NY coming from the provinces of Azuay and Cañar, having GYE as the closest international airport (about 3 hours drive) and of course a big VFR market in Guayaquil as well.

It would not surprise me if they announce a Quito route from JFK as this market is currently unserved., however I am not sure of the performance of the A321NEO considering the altitude at UIO being about 7,300 ft.

Thanks for the info. I wonder what the performance hit is for high altitude on A321NEO. I guess we will find out. Maybe they need to wait for one pip on GTF engine before they get the range for JFK-UIO.

One question, I see Latam flight departing JFK at 12:10 am and coming back leaving at 8:45 from GYE and landing at 4:10.

B6's proposed schedule leaves at 2 pm from JFK arriving at GYE at 9 pm. Also leaves from GYE at 10:55 PM and arriving at JFK at 5:13 AM. It seems like B6's schedule is at a more convenient time. Am I right about this? It just seems to me B6 is going to have a very easy time here.

MIflyer12 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:34 pm

tphuang wrote:
I don't see DL interested in battling B6 on a VFR route like this that would require probably a HD 757 or a widebody, since their A321NEO is not going into service yet. And same with GEO.

DL flies 757s UIO-ATL. DL did serve GEO-JFK for several years, 2008-2013. Maybe B6 - with lower costs - will be happy with lower yields.

Cointrin330 · Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:13 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
This is briefly mentioned in some of the other JetBlue threads, but we now have a press release with flight times and a launch date:

http://blueir.investproductions.com/inv ... -155948658

This will be the longest route in the B6 network and will be serviced by the new A321neo. Based on the flight times (2pm departure from JFK and 5:15am return), I would assume that this flight is not using slots that B6 currently uses on another JFK market.

I find it surprising that no other airline flies non-stop from NYC to GYE. I would have thought UA would serve this market from EWR (or even DL from JFK).

B6 has already announced their intentions to use the 321neo on JFK-GEO, and I wonder if JFK-UIO is not far behind either.

XL flies this route on a wide body (B763). This will put pressure on LATAM to reduce costs since B6 is competing with a narrow body.

LATAM will be fine. Plenty of cargo is hauled on this route, and LA will have the edge with a bigger aircraft and they serve a different market entirely, including POS.

ezalpha · Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:38 am

Air Canada (Rouge) will start Toronto to Quito with B767 in December

AA300B · Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:37 am

tphuang wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
One question, I see Latam flight departing JFK at 12:10 am and coming back leaving at 8:45 from GYE and landing at 4:10.

B6's proposed schedule leaves at 2 pm from JFK arriving at GYE at 9 pm. Also leaves from GYE at 10:55 PM and arriving at JFK at 5:13 AM. It seems like B6's schedule is at a more convenient time. Am I right about this? It just seems to me B6 is going to have a very easy time here.

The B6 is for sure more attractive for the market coming from outside Guayaquil, which will allow for a daytime drive from other provinces on departure. I am positive about the success of this route. The growth from GYE to the US has been quite interesting the last year with the intro of NK and B6 to FLL and now the JFK route.

Let´s hope maybe UA will make a come back from either IAH or EWR like the a few years ago where a daily rotation to each hub was performed.

b747400erf · Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:21 am

MartijnNL wrote:
GYE, GEO, UIO... where are these places? I know codes can be looked up, but why not name the three cities for our convenience?

Because this is an aviation site for people who understand aviation or understand places to look them up.

Blueknows · Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:12 am

B6 will change the GYE market. Just like LIR this will soon be new hotspot. Visit now because prices are going to rise. They have amazing beach's , and will soon be taken over by gringo American's.

STT757 · Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:45 am

Probably will see UA bring back EWR-GYE, New Jersey has the second largest Ecuadorian American population. Besides GYE, CO also flew EWR- BOG-UIO with a 752.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tphuang · Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:44 pm

AA300B wrote:
tphuang wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
One question, I see Latam flight departing JFK at 12:10 am and coming back leaving at 8:45 from GYE and landing at 4:10.

B6's proposed schedule leaves at 2 pm from JFK arriving at GYE at 9 pm. Also leaves from GYE at 10:55 PM and arriving at JFK at 5:13 AM. It seems like B6's schedule is at a more convenient time. Am I right about this? It just seems to me B6 is going to have a very easy time here.

The B6 is for sure more attractive for the market coming from outside Guayaquil, which will allow for a daytime drive from other provinces on departure. I am positive about the success of this route. The growth from GYE to the US has been quite interesting the last year with the intro of NK and B6 to FLL and now the JFK route.

Let´s hope maybe UA will make a come back from either IAH or EWR like the a few years ago where a daily rotation to each hub was performed.

Cool, thanks for the info. Do you know if the Ecuadorian community in NYC are mostly from the area from Guayaquil. It's a little strange to me that we have 2 flights to GYE, but none to UIO. Maybe there is some more leisure flights to GYE also, but UIO might have some business? At least that's the impression I got.

Just looking at the times again, it seems like Latam is leaving the B767 in JFK for 8 hours without using it, whereas B6 is doing red-eye which allows for using A321NEO throughout the day. I'm assuming Latam picked these times because that's the only time slots it could find. That seems to be a serious disadvantage to the slot times B6 is using.

On the subject of UA with EWR, this might be a case where B6 needs to add a second flight if the performance is good in order to prevent other airlines from jumping in. Although, A321NEO does give B6 a pretty big competitive advantage here.

AA300B · Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:15 pm

tphuang wrote:
AA300B wrote:
tphuang wrote:

Cool, thanks for the info. Do you know if the Ecuadorian community in NYC are mostly from the area from Guayaquil. It's a little strange to me that we have 2 flights to GYE, but none to UIO. Maybe there is some more leisure flights to GYE also, but UIO might have some business? At least that's the impression I got.

Just looking at the times again, it seems like Latam is leaving the B767 in JFK for 8 hours without using it, whereas B6 is doing red-eye which allows for using A321NEO throughout the day. I'm assuming Latam picked these times because that's the only time slots it could find. That seems to be a serious disadvantage to the slot times B6 is using.

On the subject of UA with EWR, this might be a case where B6 needs to add a second flight if the performance is good in order to prevent other airlines from jumping in. Although, A321NEO does give B6 a pretty big competitive advantage here.

GYE is very well located geographically within Ecuador with easy access via very good highways to the rest of the country. LATAM feeds the JFK flight from UIO via domestic flights. GYE also benefits from multiple daily departures to the Galapagos Islands.

Another factor is the presence of DL, UA, AA and B6 at UIO all of them offering convenient one stop service into the NYC area. Not the best alternative, however I am sure it will not be long until any of the carriers mentioned before begins this service.

LATAM previously operated for many years a departure at 13:05 GYE JFK arriving at 20:25 and return 22:35 JFK GYE arriving at 5:45 aprox. This was a lot more convenient than the new schedule as it allowed for same day connections into Galapagos Is.

MartijnNL · Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:25 pm

jetbluefan1 wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
GYE, GEO, UIO... where are these places? I know codes can be looked up, but why not name the three cities for our convenience?

Because this is an aviation fanboy forum where people know global airport codes by heart

As a European I know AAL, BGO, CPH, DUB, EXT, FCO, GVA, HAJ, IBZ, JYV, KKN, LCA, MUC, NCE, OLB, PSA, RIX, SEN, TFS, UME, VLC, WAW, XFW, ZRH and many more by heart. I guess the codes of South American airports are less familiar to me.

jetbluefan1 wrote:
I remember in the good old days, when airliners.net automatically tagged the airport code by its name if you hovered over it. Man, what I'd give to have those days back.

I remember those days too. That was a nice feature. Nowadays it is difficult to hover over something on my mobile phone.

MartijnNL · Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:28 pm

FSDan wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
GYE, GEO, UIO... where are these places? I know codes can be looked up, but why not name the three cities for our convenience?

GYE = Guayaquil, Ecuador
GEO = Georgetown, Guyana
UIO = Quito, Ecuador

Thank you FSDan for naming the cities.

Weatherwatcher1 · Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:40 pm

Blueknows wrote:
B6 will change the GYE market. Just like LIR this will soon be new hotspot. Visit now because prices are going to rise. They have amazing beach's , and will soon be taken over by gringo American's.

I assume you are joking since Guayaquil isn’t even directly on the ocean and no tourist would dare swim in Rio Guayas.

Guayaquil does draw some tourism for people headed to the Galapagos. A significant number of people who can afford to go to the Galapagos would be flying business class.

rbavfan · Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:43 am

jetbluefan1 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
As I said in JetBlue, a lot of demand on this route. This is one route I'm sure they've thought about for years, but couldn't operate due to not having enough range. If they play this right, maybe they'd be able to push LATAM out and add a daily A321NEO to UIO. The Ecuadorian population in NYC is huge. It's kind of mind boggling only a Latam 763 is serving this route along with charter business. Latam now has a huge cost issue on the hand trying to compete against A321NEO on this route. Would be curious to see which other island route will be made available by the range and economics of A321NEO.

This is not a route where lie flat makes sense. The fares just don't justify it.

Any guesses on whether non-LR A321NEO can make it on JFK-LIM? I thought it was high altitude, but it's actually at sea level. It's right at the edge of A321NEO range, but at least they don't have to worry about ETOPS.

This really does open up some more opportunities that others overlooked. Frankly, I'm surprised UA isn't flying this from EWR or DL from JFK. Much like B6's success to the VFR markets in the Caribbean, I expect northern South America to also be quite profitable.

MartijnNL wrote:
GYE, GEO, UIO... where are these places? I know codes can be looked up, but why not name the three cities for our convenience?

Because this is an aviation fanboy forum where people know global airport codes by heart

I remember in the good old days, when airliners.net automatically tagged the airport code by its name if you hovered over it. Man, what I'd give to have those days back.

jetsetter629 wrote:
Didn't B6 only recently open up GYE from FLL the last 6 months or so? Great to see them add this route!

And why does the Ecuadorian population in NYC skew towards GYE and not UIO? EQ for years bounced between UIO & GYE on their flights to JFK before recently dropping the route once the A332 left the fleet.

From what I understand, GYE-FLL has been off to a very strong start. UIO-FLL is gaining a second seasonal frequency too. Seems like B6 is building a little niche for itself in Ecuador.

AA300B wrote:
jetsetter629 wrote:
Didn't B6 only recently open up GYE from FLL the last 6 months or so? Great to see them add this route!

And why does the Ecuadorian population in NYC skew towards GYE and not UIO? EQ for years bounced between UIO & GYE on their flights to JFK before recently dropping the route once the A332 left the fleet.

There is an important percentage of the Ecuadorian community in NY coming from the provinces of Azuay and Cañar, having GYE as the closest international airport (about 3 hours drive) and of course a big VFR market in Guayaquil as well.

It would not surprise me if they announce a Quito route from JFK as this market is currently unserved., however I am not sure of the performance of the A321NEO considering the altitude at UIO being about 7,300 ft.

Thanks that's really helpful insight.

I am sure there are many New Yorkers who would love to check out the Galapagos, so not only does this market appear to have a VFR angle but also a leisure angle as well.

while true about the Galapagos Islands, they are very limited on annual visits to protect them.

maps4ltd · Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:42 am

I went to the Galapagos out of GYE during spring break. I flew back to MIA on AA out of GYE. It was completely full. JetBlue made a good decision starting GYE-FLL; I believe the route was announced a week after we booked our return flight GYE-MIA on AA. The AA flights (at least in March) from GYE are horribly timed; one leaves at 5:30 am, the other at 11 pm. I hope B6 succeeds.

Softaero · Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:47 am

JFK-GYE is barely longer than HEL-TFS. Surely this can be operated using an A321ceo?

spinkid · Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:15 am

tphuang wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:

AA300B wrote:
There is an important percentage of the Ecuadorian community in NY coming from the provinces of Azuay and Cañar, having GYE as the closest international airport (about 3 hours drive) and of course a big VFR market in Guayaquil as well.

I'm not sure if they are in Queens. I live in Danbury, CT. We are a city of about 80,000 and have a sizeable Ecuadorian community, all from the same area of Ecuador.

I teach elementary/primary school and its quite interesting to see the surges in immigration in our city. We are extremely diverse. The past few years I consistently I have 2-5 children of Ecuadorian heritage in my class of approx 25. Central American, especially Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras have seen increases as well lately. About 15-20 years ago, we had more Brazilians, but they aren't coming with younger kids as they did in the past.

Moral of the story. There are lots of Ecuadorians clustered just outside NYC proper.

airplane · Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:43 am

JFK-GYE route is a cash cow. Until February TAME was flying with an A332 but they canceled the route due to financial problems with the lease of the aircraft. That left 279 seats open daily. Rumor was Eastern (Dynamic) wanted to fly to GYE but that is not confirmed. JetBlue is a great option.
LATAM operates daily from GYE to JFK with a B763. It's a route that requires very little commercial efforts. It sales by itself.

Brickell305 · Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:53 am

maps4ltd wrote:
I went to the Galapagos out of GYE during spring break. I flew back to MIA on AA out of GYE. It was completely full. JetBlue made a good decision starting GYE-FLL; I believe the route was announced a week after we booked our return flight GYE-MIA on AA. The AA flights (at least in March) from GYE are horribly timed; one leaves at 5:30 am, the other at 11 pm. I hope B6 succeeds.

The flights are timed that way precisely because GYE is not a leisure destination. It’s primarily VFR and business. The red eye and early morning flights back to Miami help maximize connections on that end. JetBlue’s flight to FLL is also a red eye leaving close to midnight.

w3gar · Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:56 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
Very exciting! B6's new aircraft will open up all kinds of wonderful possibilities. The A220 might be the perfect aircraft for the likes of EYW, SBA, SNA, STS, STT and various ski markets. The A321s could open up all kinds of opportunities in South America and Europe!

Imo, the A220 just might be the perfect aircraft to deploy to Central American markets in the future as well.

LH658 · Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:57 am

I wish UA brought back IAH - GYE.

tphuang · Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:50 pm

I'm not sure if they are in Queens. I live in Danbury, CT. We are a city of about 80,000 and have a sizeable Ecuadorian community, all from the same area of Ecuador.

I teach elementary/primary school and its quite interesting to see the surges in immigration in our city. We are extremely diverse. The past few years I consistently I have 2-5 children of Ecuadorian heritage in my class of approx 25. Central American, especially Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras have seen increases as well lately. About 15-20 years ago, we had more Brazilians, but they aren't coming with younger kids as they did in the past.

Moral of the story. There are lots of Ecuadorians clustered just outside NYC proper.[/quote]
Original point was if most of Ecuadorian community is closer to JFK than EWR. If there are a lot in westchester and CT, that would still make JFK the more convenient location for most people. Only jersey side really is more convenient for EWR. I just can't see UA doing much EWR to VFR market routes when they don't even fly to KIN/PAP and have only 1 flight to STI/SDQ for most of the year.

Thanks for mentioning the other ethnic groups, because I think SAL, GUA and SAP are all potential gold mines for B6 if they want to further expand in this direction. Better than having DL price matching them everywhere.

w3gar wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
Very exciting! B6's new aircraft will open up all kinds of wonderful possibilities. The A220 might be the perfect aircraft for the likes of EYW, SBA, SNA, STS, STT and various ski markets. The A321s could open up all kinds of opportunities in South America and Europe!

Imo, the A220 just might be the perfect aircraft to deploy to Central American markets in the future as well.

It seems like A220 will be deployed to critical BOS business markets first and maybe some market that can't be handled by A320 like EYW/SNA/STT. I can't see A220s on JFK VFR markets for a while, since that would be downgauging from A320 series.

airplane wrote:
JFK-GYE route is a cash cow. Until February TAME was flying with an A332 but they canceled the route due to financial problems with the lease of the aircraft. That left 279 seats open daily. Rumor was Eastern (Dynamic) wanted to fly to GYE but that is not confirmed. JetBlue is a great option.
LATAM operates daily from GYE to JFK with a B763. It's a route that requires very little commercial efforts. It sales by itself.

That's the thing. If they were able to support for a B763 and A332, they should be able to easily support B763 and A321NEO. I would think even another A321NEO would be no problem for the market.

Blueknows · Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:38 pm

Thank you for your geography lesson on GYE. We I said beaches of GYE im talking about the area around GYE. It will soon be full of American tourist do to the B6 effect. They use us dollars at currency, very US friendly. Americans want an adventure but in there safe upper middle class bubble. Just like SDQ/LIR/STI/MBJ. No American goes to enjoy the city or the culture. They just want fake resort in beach. Its kinda a joke and airline known that. Look for B6 vacations start to change the game on this.

https://theculturetrip.com/south-americ ... guayaquil/

Caribbean007 · Fri May 10, 2019 3:03 pm

tphuang wrote:
Only jersey side really is more convenient for EWR. I just can't see UA doing much EWR to VFR market routes when they don't even fly to KIN/PAP and have only 1 flight to STI/SDQ for most of the year.

Actually UA is flying 2 times a day EWR-SDQ after Jetblue and spirit decided to open EWR-SDQ. In winter they opened a 3rd seasonal flight. Before They just limited to only 1 daily flight to keep prices hight, I was checking staticts and the route for January 2018 transported 11,975 pax and January 2019 with 36,200 pax transported with the 3 airlines serving that route.

Caribbean007 · Fri May 10, 2019 3:21 pm

Blueknows wrote:
Thank you for your geography lesson on GYE. We I said beaches of GYE im talking about the area around GYE. It will soon be full of American tourist do to the B6 effect. They use us dollars at currency, very US friendly. Americans want an adventure but in there safe upper middle class bubble. Just like SDQ/LIR/STI/MBJ. No American goes to enjoy the city or the culture. They just want fake resort in beach. Its kinda a joke and airline known that. Look for B6 vacations start to change the game on this.

https://theculturetrip.com/south-americ ... guayaquil/

Part of the problem in this specific case that you mention with those tourist coming to fake resorts in Dominican Republic was the goverment selling only beach and all inclusive resorts, never mentioned anything else, for them we only had sun and sand. But they changed their mind and srtarted to sell Culture in SDQ for those urban tourist, are investing a lot money to restore the Colonial Zone and is working the strategy, soon will start the 2nd. phase of the restauration plan of the Old City of Santo Domingo as 1st one finished last year.

ryan78 · Fri May 10, 2019 3:59 pm

Blueknows wrote:
Thank you for your geography lesson on GYE. We I said beaches of GYE im talking about the area around GYE. It will soon be full of American tourist do to the B6 effect. They use us dollars at currency, very US friendly. Americans want an adventure but in there safe upper middle class bubble. Just like SDQ/LIR/STI/MBJ. No American goes to enjoy the city or the culture. They just want fake resort in beach. Its kinda a joke and airline known that. Look for B6 vacations start to change the game on this.

https://theculturetrip.com/south-americ ... guayaquil/

I severely doubt the average American tourist would go all the way to GYE for a beach vacation. And quite frankly the beaches aren't that great compared to the selection of the entire Caribbean & Florida which is all but a 2-5 hour flight away from JFK. The beach area surrounding GYE may draw a small niche, people who go for the culture of the city or exploring the jungles and maybe want to stay near a beach for a few days to relax after exploring. And even if that is the case Costa Rica is a lot closer to JFK and more well known than Guayaquil. But you will not see all-inclusive "fake" resorts popping up all because of one JetBlue flight. The main target here is the VFR traffic (Visiting Friends & Relatives), not JetBlue vacations.

rbavfan · Fri May 10, 2019 4:13 pm

tphuang wrote:
As I said in JetBlue, a lot of demand on this route. This is one route I'm sure they've thought about for years, but couldn't operate due to not having enough range. If they play this right, maybe they'd be able to push LATAM out and add a daily A321NEO to UIO. The Ecuadorian population in NYC is huge. It's kind of mind boggling only a Latam 763 is serving this route along with charter business. Latam now has a huge cost issue on the hand trying to compete against A321NEO on this route. Would be curious to see which other island route will be made available by the range and economics of A321NEO.

This is not a route where lie flat makes sense. The fares just don't justify it.

Any guesses on whether non-LR A321NEO can make it on JFK-LIM? I thought it was high altitude, but it's actually at sea level. It's right at the edge of A321NEO range, but at least they don't have to worry about ETOPS.

If LIM is right at the edge of the A321neo's range how would the non-neo model that has a shorter range fly the route?

rbavfan · Fri May 10, 2019 4:15 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
GYE, GEO, UIO... where are these places? I know codes can be looked up, but why not name the three cities for our convenience?

Why not have this site brink back the feature of hoovering over the airport code shows the name. It was one of the best most popular features that the new owners seem to fully ignore request for a return.

rbavfan · Fri May 10, 2019 4:20 pm

FSDan wrote:
tphuang wrote:
If they play this right, maybe they'd be able to push LATAM out and add a daily A321NEO to UIO.

Even though JFK-GYE is within the operational limits of the 321neo, JFK-UIO might not be. GYE is at sea level and UIO is over 9,000 ft of elevation.

I think JFK-GEO would work well for B6, though, given their success with other NYC-Latin America VFR markets.

No uUIO os at 7,874 ft, but it still would cause range issues.

Pi7472000 · Fri May 10, 2019 4:24 pm

Blueknows wrote:
Thank you for your geography lesson on GYE. We I said beaches of GYE im talking about the area around GYE. It will soon be full of American tourist do to the B6 effect. They use us dollars at currency, very US friendly. Americans want an adventure but in there safe upper middle class bubble. Just like SDQ/LIR/STI/MBJ. No American goes to enjoy the city or the culture. They just want fake resort in beach. Its kinda a joke and airline known that. Look for B6 vacations start to change the game on this.

https://theculturetrip.com/south-americ ... guayaquil/

I am glad JetBlue is flying there now. I love LATAM, but prices to South America are outrageous. I flew to MEL from DEN for 500 roundtrip. Unless I am in Miami South America fares are high.

Not all. I went to Ecuador just to see Quito and then los Banos, Ecuador. I stayed with a Ecuadorian family who only spoke Spanish and went out in the city every night. Also, took half day Spanish classes. Quito was great. Very friendly people. I had zero desire to go to the beach in Ecuador. I felt the same in Lima and La Paz. Both are amazing cities with friendly people. Not all North American tourists are the same. Thanks. I

FSDan · Fri May 10, 2019 4:29 pm

rbavfan wrote:
FSDan wrote:
tphuang wrote:
If they play this right, maybe they'd be able to push LATAM out and add a daily A321NEO to UIO.

Even though JFK-GYE is within the operational limits of the 321neo, JFK-UIO might not be. GYE is at sea level and UIO is over 9,000 ft of elevation.

I think JFK-GEO would work well for B6, though, given their success with other NYC-Latin America VFR markets.

No uUIO os at 7,874 ft, but it still would cause range issues.

Good catch. 9,000+ feet is the city of Quito, not the airport. Either way, one of the more elevated airports in the world.

tphuang · Fri May 10, 2019 5:07 pm

rbavfan wrote:
tphuang wrote:
As I said in JetBlue, a lot of demand on this route. This is one route I'm sure they've thought about for years, but couldn't operate due to not having enough range. If they play this right, maybe they'd be able to push LATAM out and add a daily A321NEO to UIO. The Ecuadorian population in NYC is huge. It's kind of mind boggling only a Latam 763 is serving this route along with charter business. Latam now has a huge cost issue on the hand trying to compete against A321NEO on this route. Would be curious to see which other island route will be made available by the range and economics of A321NEO.

This is not a route where lie flat makes sense. The fares just don't justify it.

Any guesses on whether non-LR A321NEO can make it on JFK-LIM? I thought it was high altitude, but it's actually at sea level. It's right at the edge of A321NEO range, but at least they don't have to worry about ETOPS.

If LIM is right at the edge of the A321neo's range how would the non-neo model that has a shorter range fly the route?

i said non-LR NEO, not a321CEO. My guess is no.

ryan78 wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Thank you for your geography lesson on GYE. We I said beaches of GYE im talking about the area around GYE. It will soon be full of American tourist do to the B6 effect. They use us dollars at currency, very US friendly. Americans want an adventure but in there safe upper middle class bubble. Just like SDQ/LIR/STI/MBJ. No American goes to enjoy the city or the culture. They just want fake resort in beach. Its kinda a joke and airline known that. Look for B6 vacations start to change the game on this.

https://theculturetrip.com/south-americ ... guayaquil/

I severely doubt the average American tourist would go all the way to GYE for a beach vacation. And quite frankly the beaches aren't that great compared to the selection of the entire Caribbean & Florida which is all but a 2-5 hour flight away from JFK. The beach area surrounding GYE may draw a small niche, people who go for the culture of the city or exploring the jungles and maybe want to stay near a beach for a few days to relax after exploring. And even if that is the case Costa Rica is a lot closer to JFK and more well known than Guayaquil. But you will not see all-inclusive "fake" resorts popping up all because of one JetBlue flight. The main target here is the VFR traffic (Visiting Friends & Relatives), not JetBlue vacations.

sure, but there is a lot of people in NYC looking for new places t check out. The Caribbean islands and Florida are just so boring. I almost never go there.

Caribbean007 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Only jersey side really is more convenient for EWR. I just can't see UA doing much EWR to VFR market routes when they don't even fly to KIN/PAP and have only 1 flight to STI/SDQ for most of the year.

Actually UA is flying 2 times a day EWR-SDQ after Jetblue and spirit decided to open EWR-SDQ. In winter they opened a 3rd seasonal flight. Before They just limited to only 1 daily flight to keep prices hight, I was checking staticts and the route for January 2018 transported 11,975 pax and January 2019 with 36,200 pax transported with the 3 airlines serving that route.

that doesn't really change my point UA's VFR schedule out of EWR is paltry compare to B6 at JFK.

rbavfan · Fri May 10, 2019 5:27 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
GYE, GEO, UIO... where are these places? I know codes can be looked up, but why not name the three cities for our convenience?

Because this is an aviation fanboy forum where people know global airport codes by heart

As a European I know AAL, BGO, CPH, DUB, EXT, FCO, GVA, HAJ, IBZ, JYV, KKN, LCA, MUC, NCE, OLB, PSA, RIX, SEN, TFS, UME, VLC, WAW, XFW, ZRH and many more by heart. I guess the codes of South American airports are less familiar to me.

jetbluefan1 wrote:
I remember in the good old days, when airliners.net automatically tagged the airport code by its name if you hovered over it. Man, what I'd give to have those days back.

I remember those days too. That was a nice feature. Nowadays it is difficult to hover over something on my mobile phone.

You can hoover over something on a cell phone if the programmer adds the code for it.

Caribbean007 · Sun May 12, 2019 11:54 am

tphuang wrote:
that doesn't really change my point UA's VFR schedule out of EWR is paltry compare to B6 at JFK.

Agree, if we talk about Dominican Republic B6 is number 1 from North america with almost 2 million pax transported last year, in the route JFK-SDQ B6 has 5 daily Flights, DL has 3 and UA has 2 from EWR,

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