UA Launches EWR/CPT

sohanb82 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:10 pm

Just announced: UA starting flights from Newark to Cape Town in December 2019 running through March 2020.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ne ... cape-town/

Schedule looks like this:

Newark (EWR) 8:30pm Departure → Cape Town (CPT) 6:00pm (+1) Arrival (Wed, Fri, Sun)
Cape Town (CPT) 8:50pm Departure → Newark (EWR) 5:45am (+1) Arrival (Mon, Thu, Sat)

LAXintl · Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:11 pm

Did you read article?

It's Cape Town not Johannesburg!

Cointrin330 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:13 pm

CPT in deed, not JNB. They code share with SA on the JFK-JNB route. A great add and another further sign UA is finally turning the corner.

airzona11 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:16 pm

Great add, great to see the US3 expanding.

SCQ83 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:20 pm

Is South Africa popular for Americans now?

jasoncrh · Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:21 pm

I was just there and there were tons everywhere, in addition to the standard Europeans.

SCQ83 wrote:
Is South Africa popular for Americans now?

aemoreira1981 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:25 pm

Finally EWR sees the B789. I wonder how it will be rotated in and out.

jetblastdubai · Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:25 pm

United is going to need a wider route map.

simpv21 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:26 pm

Wow great add for UA, and not the first US-Africa route I was expecting UA to add.

I saw that they codeshare already on SA's JFK-JNB route, but what about their relationship on other connections in South Africa/Southern Africa?

burnsie28 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:28 pm

Interesting it only runs for 4 months though.

Judge1310 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:40 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Is South Africa popular for Americans now?

ZA has been popular for quite some time. I, personally (as a US American), went to CPT back in 2009 when DL operated the connection from ATL via DKR. JFK-DKR-CPT and ATL-DKR-JNB before the days of the 777-200LR.

9252fly · Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:45 pm

burnsie28 wrote:
Interesting it only runs for 4 months though.

Those 4 months are the in peak of the CPT tourism season. UA may be testing the waters.

Judge1310 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:46 pm

simpv21 wrote:
Wow great add for UA, and not the first US-Africa route I was expecting UA to add.

I saw that they codeshare already on SA's JFK-JNB route, but what about their relationship on other connections in South Africa/Southern Africa?

The new United doesn't necessarily seek to always rely on onward connections. If they can make a route work just on inward connections for customers of United Airlines then a route will be tried out and expanded upon if market conditions warrant. See the cases of SFO-PPT, SFO-TLV, SFO-CTU, etc.

So many people on here just think of the LOS, ACC, CAI, etc stations when it comes to Africa. Those places are fine and all and UA can get customers there on their partner carriers. However, UA prefers to operate certain 'niche' stations when market conditions allow. The past 3-5 years have seen a massive paradigm shift in the mentality of UA's Network Planning department, for the better! :bigthumbsup:

Blerg · Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:50 pm

Will this be one of the longest flights to fly almost exclusively over water?

x1234 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:51 pm

Can the 789 fly EWR-JNB considering the elevation at JNB!? I know DL uses the 77L which overcomes these issues. CX uses the 77W JNB-HKG so some aircraft can overcome the high elevtion. Any planning experts weigh in?

737max8 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:05 pm

x1234 wrote:
Can the 789 fly EWR-JNB considering the elevation at JNB!? I know DL uses the 77L which overcomes these issues. CX uses the 77W JNB-HKG so some aircraft can overcome the high elevtion. Any planning experts weigh in?

This thread is about EWR-CPT and CPT is at an elevation of like...150 feet. Or do you think they might want to add JNB also?

horsepowerchef · Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:07 pm

Excellent move United, I knew it was only a matter of time! If it proves popular, does the 77W have the legs for that route?

minilinde · Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:08 pm

That's a whole lot of water!

OneSexyL1011 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:08 pm

I love this expansion by UAL. Seems like they are the one being progressive and leading the pack now while AA and DL just sit back and twiddle their thumbs.

Blerg wrote:
Will this be one of the longest flights to fly almost exclusively over water?

SFO-SIN has it beat, unless you count it out because it occasionally fly's over the Philippine islands....

Coalways · Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:30 pm

Wow United has the best route map of the big 3! Very nice add! United is truly making the best route network with there 787 fleet

maps4ltd · Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:32 pm

This should've been the "historic" announcement from a while back

drdisque · Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:39 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Finally EWR sees the B789. I wonder how it will be rotated in and out.

I'm guessing SFO or IAH - both can easily support a 789 departing EWR mid-morning and arriving EWR late-afternoon (morning departure from SFO arriving EWR late afternoon and turning to CPT probably makes the most sense)

OA940 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:42 pm

Wow UA is really being progressive and daring when it comes to routes. I hope they get more 787s to expand further. Perhaps when the A350s arrive we'll see more expansion like this.

x1234 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:53 pm

I LOVE that UA is thinking outside of the BOX and beating DL to the punch! Currently DL serves JFK-DSS (Dakar, Senegal), JFK-ACC (Accra, Ghana), JFK/ATL-LOS (Lagos, Nigeria) and ATL-JNB (Johannesburg, South Africa). Their SkyTeam partner Kenya Airways serves JFK-NBO (Nairobi, Kenya), all markets that currently due to the limited amount of US-Africa traffic only support 1 US carrier. Having SAA in *A definitely helps!

rbavfan · Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:54 pm

x1234 wrote:
Can the 789 fly EWR-JNB considering the elevation at JNB!? I know DL uses the 77L which overcomes these issues. CX uses the 77W JNB-HKG so some aircraft can overcome the high elevtion. Any planning experts weigh in?

CX can overcome the limit due to much shorter route.

FlyGuy27 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:01 pm

At the risk of being overly cynical (but also drawing from experience) - 8:30pm departure from EWR? The place isn't exactly a well-oiled machine at that hour.

gatibosgru · Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:07 pm

Great add by UA!

behramjee · Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:14 pm

In 2018, the P2P passenger demand (round trip) between NYC and CPT was 57,000 which is quite good. In winter season, the yields from USA to CPT are quite good as its peak season as round trip fares range between US$1800-2300.

The above proposed schedule connects very well with all of continental U.S. + Canada in both directions via EWR.

In comparison, JNB-NYC demand last year 140,000 passengers round trip P2P.

x1234 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:19 pm

I remember the quote for a European airline CEO I read on here years ago that "Africa is goldmine due to NO or significantly reduced competition!". Maybe they were right all those years ago!

aemoreira1981 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:19 pm

FlyGuy27 wrote:
At the risk of being overly cynical (but also drawing from experience) - 8:30pm departure from EWR? The place isn't exactly a well-oiled machine at that hour.

But there is a huge departure bank then from the afternoon arrivals into EWR.

Super80Fan · Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:26 pm

Coalways wrote:
Wow United has the best route map of the big 3! Very nice add! United is truly making the best route network with there 787 fleet

*Best international route map.

Not domestically.

Judge1310 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:31 pm

FlyGuy27 wrote:
At the risk of being overly cynical (but also drawing from experience) - 8:30pm departure from EWR? The place isn't exactly a well-oiled machine at that hour.

And how, pray tell, would you expect the flight to have a greater influx of customers if the flight were to depart from (~2045h) and arrive into (~0545h) EWR at a different time? Also it's slated to begin operating in the norther hemispheric winter which would indicate a bit of an international operational drop-off (particularly Euro routes). Also, quantitatively speaking, looking at this upcoming Wednesday, there are only 5 mainline flights with a 2030h departure time. Expanding the time frame, there are only 16 mainline departures in the 2000h-2100h period. Maybe your experience was during a period of irregular operations (ATC, weather, etc)?

FSDan · Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:41 pm

Cool add! It's nice to see UA finding ways to utilize their long haul fleet well during the winter season. Also, the 789 has certainly been a game changer for UA in terms of route development. DL isn't launching these types of routes because they don't have the right aircraft in their fleet to do it.

FSDan · Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:45 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
FlyGuy27 wrote:
At the risk of being overly cynical (but also drawing from experience) - 8:30pm departure from EWR? The place isn't exactly a well-oiled machine at that hour.

Also it's slated to begin operating in the norther hemispheric winter which would indicate a bit of an international operational drop-off (particularly Euro routes).

In the winter, EWR-KEF, SNN, GLA, OPO, ARN, NAP, VCE, PRG, and ATH are all cut (or at least scaled back significantly). TXL and FCO might be on that list as well... UA should have plenty of room to accommodate an extra flight in that timeframe in the winter.

cathay747 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:48 pm

minilinde wrote:
That's a whole lot of water!

Only 60mi. more water than YVR-SYD which AC flies nonstop:

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ewr-cpt%2Cyvr-syd&MS=wls&DU=mi

FlyGuy27 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:04 pm

FSDan wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
FlyGuy27 wrote:
At the risk of being overly cynical (but also drawing from experience) - 8:30pm departure from EWR? The place isn't exactly a well-oiled machine at that hour.

Also it's slated to begin operating in the norther hemispheric winter which would indicate a bit of an international operational drop-off (particularly Euro routes).

In the winter, EWR-KEF, SNN, GLA, OPO, ARN, NAP, VCE, PRG, and ATH are all cut (or at least scaled back significantly). TXL and FCO might be on that list as well... UA should have plenty of room to accommodate an extra flight in that timeframe in the winter.

There we go, that all makes sense. Hopefully we can see some other interesting routes!

WorldFlier · Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:10 pm

That makes United a Six-Continent Airline Again!

OA412 · Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:11 pm

Interesting add. I'm surprised they didn't add JNB instead since CPT tends to be a more leisure-heavy market.

FSDan wrote:
DL isn't launching these types of routes because they don't have the right aircraft in their fleet to do it.

???? DL has been flying to Africa for about a decade including nonstop ATL-JNB service.

FSDan wrote:
Also, the 789 has certainly been a game changer for UA in terms of route development.

Sort of. The aircraft is just one part of the equation. UAs real "secret sauce" is SFO, not the 789. Note that almost all of the "flashy" international adds have been from SFO, with precious few added from other hubs. Yes the 789 has allowed them to open routes that may not have been feasible on other fleet types, but without the SFO hub to back it up, UA wouldn't be adding the vast majority of international services that it's added over the last several years, 789 or not.

BWIAirport · Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:32 pm

Didn't see this mentioned yet, what will the flight numbers be for this route? Many of UA's longhaul routes from EWR have flight numbers in the 900s, but they like to give their more unique routes lower numbers.

FSDan · Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:50 pm

OA412 wrote:
Interesting add. I'm surprised they didn't add JNB instead since CPT tends to be a more leisure-heavy market.
FSDan wrote:
DL isn't launching these types of routes because they don't have the right aircraft in their fleet to do it.

???? DL has been flying to Africa for about a decade including nonstop ATL-JNB service.

I wasn't referring to Africa when I said DL isn't launching these types of routes - I was talking about thin ULH flights in general. You said it yourself - CPT and JNB are different types of markets. If DL tried JFK-CPT on the 77L, I doubt it would do well... The 77L works great on ATL-JNB because it has the range and performance capability to operate the route without a payload hit (I'm not sure the 789 could fly that one), and JNB has more year-round high value business traffic to offset the high cost of operating the route.

I'm not in the camp of folks who claim DL hasn't launched any interesting international routes recently (though there are plenty of those critics on a.net, it seems...), but I think their network innovations have been much more geared to the aircraft they do have in their fleet. Examples are JFK-PDL and BOS-EDI on 752 equipment, and IND-CDG and TPA-AMS on 763s.

OA412 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Also, the 789 has certainly been a game changer for UA in terms of route development.

Sort of. The aircraft is just one part of the equation. UAs real "secret sauce" is SFO, not the 789. Note that almost all of the "flashy" international adds have been from SFO, with precious few added from other hubs. Yes the 789 has allowed them to open routes that may not have been feasible on other fleet types, but without the SFO hub to back it up, UA wouldn't be adding the vast majority of international services that it's added over the last several years, 789 or not.

UA had SFO long before they had 789s. The notable international expansion from SFO has come post-787.

dcajet · Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:01 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Is South Africa popular for Americans now?

Fairly so. Plus a lot of South Africans have made the US their home.

TransWorldOne · Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:15 pm

OneSexyL1011 wrote:
I love this expansion by UAL. Seems like they are the one being progressive and leading the pack now while AA and DL just sit back and twiddle their thumbs.

Blerg wrote:
Will this be one of the longest flights to fly almost exclusively over water?

SFO-SIN has it beat, unless you count it out because it occasionally fly's over the Philippine islands....

While I don't know that I would say that AA and DL are twiddling their thumbs, they certainly have different strategies. DL in particular couldn't have a more different international strategy than UA. While UA expands into new and secondary markets all over the world from its powerful hubs, DL is much more conservative and prefers to flow traffic over its joint venture partner hubs. DL is printing money like no other airline so I can't fault them for their strategy, but UA's is certainly more interesting.

voxkel · Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:28 pm

Not too surprised by the route, but surprised that it is on 789 instead of 77E. How will UA rotate the 789 into this route?

voxkel · Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:31 pm

rbavfan wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Can the 789 fly EWR-JNB considering the elevation at JNB!? I know DL uses the 77L which overcomes these issues. CX uses the 77W JNB-HKG so some aircraft can overcome the high elevtion. Any planning experts weigh in?

CX can overcome the limit due to much shorter route.

CPT is much lower elevation, so 77E/W should also be capable of CPT to US East Coast.

CONTACREW · Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:42 pm

voxkel wrote:
Not too surprised by the route, but surprised that it is on 789 instead of 77E. How will UA rotate the 789 into this route?

Likely via IAH/DEN/LAX/SFO.

jayunited · Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:04 am

FSDan wrote:
Cool add! It's nice to see UA finding ways to utilize their long haul fleet well during the winter season. Also, the 789 has certainly been a game changer for UA in terms of route development. DL isn't launching these types of routes because they don't have the right aircraft in their fleet to do it.

DL has the 77L and A359, if we forget about the 77L and just focus on the A359 that aircraft is just as capable and fuel efficient as the 789. And I think DL already has some interesting routes to Africa.

As far as UA I like what I'm seeing from them UA today is finding new ways to get the most utilization out of their fleet. We are seeing UA launch a lot more season flights to take full advantage of the different peak travel seasons in different parts of the world. I for one am glad to see CPT added to our route map because I was planning to go to South Africa next year anyways.

PSAatSAN4Ever · Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:05 am

South African Airways flies JNB-JFK, which obviously has to rely on O&D alone to sustain the route, which obviously is enough. Perhaps it is a matter of enough Star Alliance card holders in the American northeast driving extra demand during the Southern African summer that has brought this route to life, and United feels confident enough to fly this route.

It reminds me of Condor's 2017 summer into SAN. Yields proved high enough that Lufthansa stepped into this route of their own accord, after an experiment proved successful.

evanb · Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:15 am

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
South African Airways flies JNB-JFK, which obviously has to rely on O&D alone to sustain the route, which obviously is enough. Perhaps it is a matter of enough Star Alliance card holders in the American northeast driving extra demand during the Southern African summer that has brought this route to life, and United feels confident enough to fly this route.

SAA has a fairly substantial codeshare capacity from B6 at JFK. They get plenty of feed at JFK from B6.

evanb · Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:17 am

jayunited wrote:
DL has the 77L and A359, if we forget about the 77L and just focus on the A359 that aircraft is just as capable and fuel efficient as the 789. And I think DL already has some interesting routes to Africa.

From what we've been told by other on airliner.net, DL have lower MTOW rates A350-900s. This might explain why DL's longest A350-900 route is ATL-ICN which is a 1,000 miles shorter than ATL-CPT.

evanb · Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:21 am

simpv21 wrote:
Wow great add for UA, and not the first US-Africa route I was expecting UA to add.

I saw that they codeshare already on SA's JFK-JNB route, but what about their relationship on other connections in South Africa/Southern Africa?

The arrival time in CPT will limit connections to JNB only.

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