Planes4you
Topic Author
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Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:09 am

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/DFW-A ... html?amp=y

As the article states DFW is planning to build terminal F which is rumored(from people who are close to people who work at DFW) to be the new international terminal.If it’s an international terminal the other part of the rumor is AA will take over terminal D and all international carriers will be moved to terminal F.If it is built every terminal F concept shows it’ll replace the parking lot next to D.thoughts on this?
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:14 am

Closer to the Sky Club. Good for SkyTeam members.
 
musman9853
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:28 am

american is probably salivating at the thought of getting more slots at their fortress hubs
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
FSDan
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:30 am

musman9853 wrote:
american is probably salivating at the thought of getting more slots at their fortress hubs


DFW isn't slot restricted. AA will be happy to get more gates, though.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
musman9853
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:34 am

FSDan wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
american is probably salivating at the thought of getting more slots at their fortress hubs


DFW isn't slot restricted. AA will be happy to get more gates, though.


derp, yes lol.
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
stevend08
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:36 am

Posted in the DFW Thread:

ctrabs0114 wrote:
The latest on Terminal F from the Star-Telegram:

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/busi ... 18194.html


DFW has been struggling to keep parking revenue up recently which makes sense.
The article suggests having a ORD terminal 3 like structure but not sure about how skylnk would tie in
 
Fargo
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:44 am

How can they fit a double sided Terminal in the space where F is suppose to go? Perhaps they should instead go with a new design that could be expanded to replace the other terminals over the course of the next 20-25 years (so it’s not done all at once and racking up huge debt). DFW would be much more efficient if they could just centralize all ticketing/baggage ops and ground transportation.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:46 am

musman9853 wrote:
american is probably salivating at the thought of getting more slots at their fortress hubs


You mean more gates.
 
HPAEAA
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:47 am

musman9853 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
american is probably salivating at the thought of getting more slots at their fortress hubs


DFW isn't slot restricted. AA will be happy to get more gates, though.


derp, yes lol.

I'm interested to see what terminal design they settle on here, last i heard AA was in a fight with DFW over the future design of the terminals there, DP wanted more midfield development vs the 1/2 ovals... Logic on the AA side was by changing the design they could enable easier connections... I personally like the current DFW setup & find connections pretty easy but Management didn't agree.
1.4mm and counting...
 
Ishrion
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:54 am

HPAEAA wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
FSDan wrote:

DFW isn't slot restricted. AA will be happy to get more gates, though.


derp, yes lol.

I'm interested to see what terminal design they settle on here, last i heard AA was in a fight with DFW over the future design of the terminals there, DP wanted more midfield development vs the 1/2 ovals... Logic on the AA side was by changing the design they could enable easier connections... I personally like the current DFW setup & find connections pretty easy but Management didn't agree.


DFW is considering a "finger like" terminal design like Istanbul's new airport where more planes can park at the gates rather than 1 side like the current DFW setup. It was convenient back in 1974 but now it's more based on connections.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:59 am

And parking seems to be no longer an issue plenty of spaces all the time as more and more people Uber/Lyft.
 
tmoney
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:08 am

stevend08 wrote:
Posted in the DFW Thread:
The article suggests having a ORD terminal 3 like structure but not sure about how skylnk would tie in


The skylink rail actually curves around the parking lot spot that is potential T(F) just like it does for other terminals.

Now my biggest wish is to have direct airside walkways to terminals that are facing each other. So I won't have to cross 2 different terminals and 3-7 stops on the skylink whenever I'm connecting cross-terminal.
Yokes > Side-sticks
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stevend08
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:38 am

tmoney wrote:
stevend08 wrote:
Posted in the DFW Thread:
The article suggests having a ORD terminal 3 like structure but not sure about how skylnk would tie in


The skylink rail actually curves around the parking lot spot that is potential T(F) just like it does for other terminals.

Now my biggest wish is to have direct airside walkways to terminals that are facing each other. So I won't have to cross 2 different terminals and 3-7 stops on the skylink whenever I'm connecting cross-terminal.


Understand that and I guess my question is really the previous questions of how on earth they'll fit all of that in the footprint F is on now.

It looks increasingly likely that they're moving away from the classic semi circle terminal look and have piers coming out of a single terminal house like ORD T3. If that's the case, they're working with a extremely narrow footprint especially with the existing skylink infrastructure
 
w3gar
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:52 am

I wonder if there will be any other additional changes to the terminals at DFW beside Terminals C and F
 
FromGSPtoChi
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:04 am

Planes4you wrote:
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/DFW-Airport-to-Start-Planning-6th-Terminal-for-More-Flights-508570351.html?amp=y

As the article states DFW is planning to build terminal F which is rumored(from people who are close to people who work at DFW) to be the new international terminal.If it’s an international terminal the other part of the rumor is AA will take over terminal D and all international carriers will be moved to terminal F.If it is built every terminal F concept shows it’ll replace the parking lot next to D.thoughts on this?


This has more info:
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/busi ... 18194.html
 
QXfactor
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:24 pm

tmoney wrote:
stevend08 wrote:
Now my biggest wish is to have direct airside walkways to terminals that are facing each other. So I won't have to cross 2 different terminals and 3-7 stops on the skylink whenever I'm connecting cross-terminal.



They already have airside walkways from A to B, and C to D, where you go right over the highway. In fact, other than Terminal E, the terminals all connect to each other (A to both B and C, B to both A and D, C to both A and D, and D to both B and C.)
 
mcoatc
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:50 pm

w3gar wrote:
I wonder if there will be any other additional changes to the terminals at DFW beside Terminals C and F


AA is already spending billions at LAX, ORD, CLT, and DCA. The airport already spent billions on TRIP and has endless airfield work to do. Pretty sure it's F and some lipstick on the pig that is C. You can't replace C until F exists anyway, and no one is going to spend tens of billions to reconfigure the entire airport.

Planes4you wrote:
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/DFW-Airport-to-Start-Planning-6th-Terminal-for-More-Flights-508570351.html?amp=y

As the article states DFW is planning to build terminal F which is rumored(from people who are close to people who work at DFW) to be the new international terminal.If it’s an international terminal the other part of the rumor is AA will take over terminal D and all international carriers will be moved to terminal F.If it is built every terminal F concept shows it’ll replace the parking lot next to D.thoughts on this?


Like there's so many tenants other than AA to move out of D? What's that like 3 or 4 gates? You really think they're going to move QF and build a new A380 gate? Intl at F sounds logical, and you can be certain it's not going to be semi-circular because AA isn't down with that.
 
Planes4you
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:10 pm

mcoatc wrote:
w3gar wrote:
I wonder if there will be any other additional changes to the terminals at DFW beside Terminals C and F


AA is already spending billions at LAX, ORD, CLT, and DCA. The airport already spent billions on TRIP and has endless airfield work to do. Pretty sure it's F and some lipstick on the pig that is C. You can't replace C until F exists anyway, and no one is going to spend tens of billions to reconfigure the entire airport.

Planes4you wrote:
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/DFW-Airport-to-Start-Planning-6th-Terminal-for-More-Flights-508570351.html?amp=y

As the article states DFW is planning to build terminal F which is rumored(from people who are close to people who work at DFW) to be the new international terminal.If it’s an international terminal the other part of the rumor is AA will take over terminal D and all international carriers will be moved to terminal F.If it is built every terminal F concept shows it’ll replace the parking lot next to D.thoughts on this?


Like there's so many tenants other than AA to move out of D? What's that like 3 or 4 gates? You really think they're going to move QF and build a new A380 gate? Intl at F sounds logical, and you can be certain it's not going to be semi-circular because AA isn't down with that.



I hope you realize the International carrier area is extremely small and I don’t think you realize how many years its going to take to finish this terminal.By the time it’s finished dfw will have way more carriers then they’ve do now…
 
atx11
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:26 pm

Re 380 gates, I doubt you’re going to have a 380 to deal with 5 years from now. Probably even a shorter time frame once the AA/Qantas JV is approved. My guess is you’ll have dual 789s running to SYD and BNE or MEL.

If the terminal gets the thumbs up this year, it would be done by 2025 most likely. I’m still of the opinion the amount of foreign flagged carriers is going to remain the same. AA is going to run every route out of Dallas on its metal unless there is an alliance or JV partner involved. It has previously said as much. Look at Iceland last summer, look at what they’re doing to AF this summer. LH has made it work and Korean has made it work (w/ a code share). More power to them. AA is definitely going to expand and do it rapidly at DFW (domestic and intl), but they will fight off anyone else coming in. Always have and always will.
 
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flyPIT
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:41 pm

DFW should build an oversized version of PHX's T4 in phases to replace everything they have now. Keep the spine road as is, put landside functions (ticketing/baggage claim) in the highway's median, parking on top, and concourses extending out east and west. Sterile corridor through the center part of the building to connect the east and west concourses.

This would somewhat provide for ATL style linear concourses while preserving some semblance of "drive to your gate" convenience (ok, more like drive to your concourse). Such a linear design would allow for unlimited incremental expansion. They should have started this instead of building D.
FLYi
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:47 pm

Planes4you wrote:
mcoatc wrote:
w3gar wrote:
I wonder if there will be any other additional changes to the terminals at DFW beside Terminals C and F


AA is already spending billions at LAX, ORD, CLT, and DCA. The airport already spent billions on TRIP and has endless airfield work to do. Pretty sure it's F and some lipstick on the pig that is C. You can't replace C until F exists anyway, and no one is going to spend tens of billions to reconfigure the entire airport.

Planes4you wrote:
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/DFW-Airport-to-Start-Planning-6th-Terminal-for-More-Flights-508570351.html?amp=y

As the article states DFW is planning to build terminal F which is rumored(from people who are close to people who work at DFW) to be the new international terminal.If it’s an international terminal the other part of the rumor is AA will take over terminal D and all international carriers will be moved to terminal F.If it is built every terminal F concept shows it’ll replace the parking lot next to D.thoughts on this?


Like there's so many tenants other than AA to move out of D? What's that like 3 or 4 gates? You really think they're going to move QF and build a new A380 gate? Intl at F sounds logical, and you can be certain it's not going to be semi-circular because AA isn't down with that.


Planes4you,

I hope you realize the International carrier area is extremely small and I don’t think you realize how many years its going to take to finish this terminal.By the time it’s finished dfw will have way more carriers then they’ve do now…


I'm a local, but let's be honest; two of the things you mentioned just aren't true.

1. The need for international carriers is pretty small. 4, 5, 6 gates would be more than sufficient at this point for international carriers, like it is now.
2. There will not be 'way more' international carriers when this terminal is built than now.

Could we see the addition of a few carriers? Sure, that is very likely. But there won't be 'way more'.

5-10 gates more or less designated for international carriers will be sufficient. However, it's smart to design in so that there are enough international capable gates for both domestic and international airlines for decades to come, so I do hope most, if not all of the the new Terminal F is FIS capable (just like Terminal D).
Whatever
 
mcoatc
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:38 am

Planes4you wrote:
mcoatc wrote:
w3gar wrote:
I wonder if there will be any other additional changes to the terminals at DFW beside Terminals C and F


AA is already spending billions at LAX, ORD, CLT, and DCA. The airport already spent billions on TRIP and has endless airfield work to do. Pretty sure it's F and some lipstick on the pig that is C. You can't replace C until F exists anyway, and no one is going to spend tens of billions to reconfigure the entire airport.

Planes4you wrote:
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/DFW-Airport-to-Start-Planning-6th-Terminal-for-More-Flights-508570351.html?amp=y

As the article states DFW is planning to build terminal F which is rumored(from people who are close to people who work at DFW) to be the new international terminal.If it’s an international terminal the other part of the rumor is AA will take over terminal D and all international carriers will be moved to terminal F.If it is built every terminal F concept shows it’ll replace the parking lot next to D.thoughts on this?


Like there's so many tenants other than AA to move out of D? What's that like 3 or 4 gates? You really think they're going to move QF and build a new A380 gate? Intl at F sounds logical, and you can be certain it's not going to be semi-circular because AA isn't down with that.



I hope you realize the International carrier area is extremely small and I don’t think you realize how many years its going to take to finish this terminal.By the time it’s finished dfw will have way more carriers then they’ve do now…


Listen, I'm not suggesting more intl gates aren't needed. They are, and D often has arrivals holding out for gates, but they're usually AA. Japan, Korean, and Emirates in the morning, Qantas, Lufthansa, Qatar, and now Air France in the afternoon. BA arrives and departs late evening these days. That leaves Aero Mexico, along with the random schedules of Interjet and Volaris. Am I missing anyone? They're all accommodated on the low D gates. Who are all of these airlines who want to start service that can't get gates (other than China Southern) ? I was simply saying AA has the need.

Also, since I've been in a construction meeting or two, I'm not completely oblivious as to the airport's building needs and schedule

FriscoHeavy wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
mcoatc wrote:

AA is already spending billions at LAX, ORD, CLT, and DCA. The airport already spent billions on TRIP and has endless airfield work to do. Pretty sure it's F and some lipstick on the pig that is C. You can't replace C until F exists anyway, and no one is going to spend tens of billions to reconfigure the entire airport.



Like there's so many tenants other than AA to move out of D? What's that like 3 or 4 gates? You really think they're going to move QF and build a new A380 gate? Intl at F sounds logical, and you can be certain it's not going to be semi-circular because AA isn't down with that.


Planes4you,

I hope you realize the International carrier area is extremely small and I don’t think you realize how many years its going to take to finish this terminal.By the time it’s finished dfw will have way more carriers then they’ve do now…


I'm a local, but let's be honest; two of the things you mentioned just aren't true.

1. The need for international carriers is pretty small. 4, 5, 6 gates would be more than sufficient at this point for international carriers, like it is now.
2. There will not be 'way more' international carriers when this terminal is built than now.

Could we see the addition of a few carriers? Sure, that is very likely. But there won't be 'way more'.

5-10 gates more or less designated for international carriers will be sufficient. However, it's smart to design in so that there are enough international capable gates for both domestic and international airlines for decades to come, so I do hope most, if not all of the the new Terminal F is FIS capable (just like Terminal D).


Exactly fellow Frisco-ite. Friscoan? Still not sure.

Anyway, they're already extending the low D gates for short term growth. Who are all these carriers?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:32 am

flyPIT wrote:
DFW should build an oversized version of PHX's T4 in phases to replace everything they have now.


I could spend a lot of time thinking about an ideal high-capacity hub airport and never get to PHX T4. Long walks if you have concourses close enough to inhibit aircraft movement, and even longer walks if you don't. Everyone needs to face it: they're not going to tear down DFW and build a facsimile of DEN or ATL. DFW's semicircular terminals from the 1968 plan predated hub and spoke operations by very big carriers. It's crippling, but no, they're not going to get a $20 Billion do-over.
 
w3gar
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:44 am

FriscoHeavy wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
mcoatc wrote:

AA is already spending billions at LAX, ORD, CLT, and DCA. The airport already spent billions on TRIP and has endless airfield work to do. Pretty sure it's F and some lipstick on the pig that is C. You can't replace C until F exists anyway, and no one is going to spend tens of billions to reconfigure the entire airport.



Like there's so many tenants other than AA to move out of D? What's that like 3 or 4 gates? You really think they're going to move QF and build a new A380 gate? Intl at F sounds logical, and you can be certain it's not going to be semi-circular because AA isn't down with that.


Planes4you,

I hope you realize the International carrier area is extremely small and I don’t think you realize how many years its going to take to finish this terminal.By the time it’s finished dfw will have way more carriers then they’ve do now…


I'm a local, but let's be honest; two of the things you mentioned just aren't true.

1. The need for international carriers is pretty small. 4, 5, 6 gates would be more than sufficient at this point for international carriers, like it is now.
2. There will not be 'way more' international carriers when this terminal is built than now.

Could we see the addition of a few carriers? Sure, that is very likely. But there won't be 'way more'.

5-10 gates more or less designated for international carriers will be sufficient. However, it's smart to design in so that there are enough international capable gates for both domestic and international airlines for decades to come, so I do hope most, if not all of the the new Terminal F is FIS capable (just like Terminal D).


It's usual to spot the Qantas A380 on a remote stand not far from D16 once each passenger has deboarded the plane. Therefore I think that a few more gates should be added for international carriers. https://twitter.com/unitedflyerhd/statu ... 5296494592
 
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flyPIT
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:14 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
DFW should build an oversized version of PHX's T4 in phases to replace everything they have now.


I could spend a lot of time thinking about an ideal high-capacity hub airport and never get to PHX T4. Long walks if you have concourses close enough to inhibit aircraft movement, and even longer walks if you don't. Everyone needs to face it: they're not going to tear down DFW and build a facsimile of DEN or ATL. DFW's semicircular terminals from the 1968 plan predated hub and spoke operations by very big carriers. It's crippling, but no, they're not going to get a $20 Billion do-over.

If by "long walks" you mean walking from one concourse to another - there could still be a train for that purpose. I also didn't suggest they do something like this all at once. Quite the opposite actually. The reason I suggested it is because the main roadway for something like this is already in place, there is room available to get started on a first phase, and the rest can be done incrementally.
FLYi
 
blueflyer
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:43 am

w3gar wrote:
It's usual to spot the Qantas A380 on a remote stand not far from D16 once each passenger has deboarded the plane. Therefore I think that a few more gates should be added for international carriers. https://twitter.com/unitedflyerhd/statu ... 5296494592

No airport is going to build a new A380-sized gate just so they can connect a bridge to a plane for 9 hours a day. Way cheaper to tow the plane back and forth to a remote stand... If they were routinely out of a gate due to traffic at arrival or departure time, I could see the need for a new gate, but as of now, I don't.
The Trump/Johnson special relationship: Special people on both sides of the Atlantic
 
LovePrunesAnet
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:43 am

New terminal plans were already being discussed in the main Dallas thread...do we need another ?
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:26 am

Will they build new mega terminals to replace the semi-circles?
 
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KrustyTheKlown
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:47 am

Considering that Mexico city is dead as a Latin America <-> East Asia hub (due to the cancellation of its new airport) I think that DFW is well positioned to capture an important part of that market despite the usual visa requirements for most passengers in those routes.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:16 pm

mcoatc wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
mcoatc wrote:

AA is already spending billions at LAX, ORD, CLT, and DCA. The airport already spent billions on TRIP and has endless airfield work to do. Pretty sure it's F and some lipstick on the pig that is C. You can't replace C until F exists anyway, and no one is going to spend tens of billions to reconfigure the entire airport.



Like there's so many tenants other than AA to move out of D? What's that like 3 or 4 gates? You really think they're going to move QF and build a new A380 gate? Intl at F sounds logical, and you can be certain it's not going to be semi-circular because AA isn't down with that.



I hope you realize the International carrier area is extremely small and I don’t think you realize how many years its going to take to finish this terminal.By the time it’s finished dfw will have way more carriers then they’ve do now…


Listen, I'm not suggesting more intl gates aren't needed. They are, and D often has arrivals holding out for gates, but they're usually AA. Japan, Korean, and Emirates in the morning, Qantas, Lufthansa, Qatar, and now Air France in the afternoon. BA arrives and departs late evening these days. That leaves Aero Mexico, along with the random schedules of Interjet and Volaris. Am I missing anyone? They're all accommodated on the low D gates. Who are all of these airlines who want to start service that can't get gates (other than China Southern) ? I was simply saying AA has the need.

Also, since I've been in a construction meeting or two, I'm not completely oblivious as to the airport's building needs and schedule

FriscoHeavy wrote:
Planes4you wrote:

Planes4you,

I hope you realize the International carrier area is extremely small and I don’t think you realize how many years its going to take to finish this terminal.By the time it’s finished dfw will have way more carriers then they’ve do now…


I'm a local, but let's be honest; two of the things you mentioned just aren't true.

1. The need for international carriers is pretty small. 4, 5, 6 gates would be more than sufficient at this point for international carriers, like it is now.
2. There will not be 'way more' international carriers when this terminal is built than now.

Could we see the addition of a few carriers? Sure, that is very likely. But there won't be 'way more'.

5-10 gates more or less designated for international carriers will be sufficient. However, it's smart to design in so that there are enough international capable gates for both domestic and international airlines for decades to come, so I do hope most, if not all of the the new Terminal F is FIS capable (just like Terminal D).


Exactly fellow Frisco-ite. Friscoan? Still not sure.

Anyway, they're already extending the low D gates for short term growth. Who are all these carriers?



Thanks mcoatc!

Lol - I'm still not sure on what to call us either! :)
Whatever
 
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enilria
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:27 pm

FSDan wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
american is probably salivating at the thought of getting more slots at their fortress hubs


DFW isn't slot restricted. AA will be happy to get more gates, though.

But other carriers will get more gates too. These days the legacies are typically happy to not grow gates, suppress capacity, and jack up fares.
 
Planes4you
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:43 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
Will they build new mega terminals to replace the semi-circles?



What’s with you and all these ideas about new airports and terminals
 
Planes4you
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:45 pm

Only time will tell
 
texl1649
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:57 pm

The challenge for DFW will always be how it can continue to grow (or operate) if so much as a minor storm front rolls across town. It tends to become a disaster for the day if a quarter inch of rain falls in the space of 20 minutes in the morning. Part of that is AA's ground ops being run by abject fools (who are seemingly unprepared half the time a plane lands), but it has only gotten worse lately.
 
mfe777
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:59 pm

F needs to get going very soon, even the people in charge said a decision needed to be made quickly to avoid a gate shortage. And that was months ago. That way, C can be torn down and rebuilt once F is operational.

In the future, what about building a large, singular terminal on the outskirts of the airport to service LCC carriers and/or non-Oneworld domestic carriers? Especially if WN ever decides to operate flights at DFW (once the gate-for-gate restrictions expire). I mean further down the road, if AA/OW need more space at DFW even after the new terminal is built. DFW has a lot of empty land on the peripheries of the airport.
 
itchief
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:04 pm

texl1649 wrote:
The challenge for DFW will always be how it can continue to grow (or operate) if so much as a minor storm front rolls across town. It tends to become a disaster for the day if a quarter inch of rain falls in the space of 20 minutes in the morning. Part of that is AA's ground ops being run by abject fools (who are seemingly unprepared half the time a plane lands), but it has only gotten worse lately.


Here is a little info that you do not seem to know. When there is lightning within a few miles of the airport all workers are brought in from the ramp for safety reasons. It is not about the rain.
 
FSDan
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:43 pm

enilria wrote:
FSDan wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
american is probably salivating at the thought of getting more slots at their fortress hubs


DFW isn't slot restricted. AA will be happy to get more gates, though.

But other carriers will get more gates too. These days the legacies are typically happy to not grow gates, suppress capacity, and jack up fares.


My understanding was that AA's latest growth spurt at DFW (mostly regional adds like MRY, BFL, AVL, MDT, etc.) was enabled by them taking control of the satellite concourse on Terminal A. Assuming that's true, it seems AA's growth at DFW is gate constrained. If they want to expand even further in the future, they'll need even more gates.

Another reason AA might be behind a new Terminal F is that new gates could allow them to shift some of their operation from Terminal C there while renovating or rebuilding on that site.
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Planes4you
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:55 pm

mfe777 wrote:
F needs to get going very soon, even the people in charge said a decision needed to be made quickly to avoid a gate shortage. And that was months ago. That way, C can be torn down and rebuilt once F is operational.

In the future, what about building a large, singular terminal on the outskirts of the airport to service LCC carriers and/or non-Oneworld domestic carriers? Especially if WN ever decides to operate flights at DFW (once the gate-for-gate restrictions expire). I mean further down the road, if AA/OW need more space at DFW even after the new terminal is built. DFW has a lot of empty land on the peripheries of the airport.



The international carrier area is in a gate shortage with how small it is scheduling is tight and soon passengers might have to board on the ramp
 
dfw88
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:18 pm

FSDan wrote:

My understanding was that AA's latest growth spurt at DFW (mostly regional adds like MRY, BFL, AVL, MDT, etc.) was enabled by them taking control of the satellite concourse on Terminal A. Assuming that's true, it seems AA's growth at DFW is gate constrained. If they want to expand even further in the future, they'll need even more gates.

Another reason AA might be behind a new Terminal F is that new gates could allow them to shift some of their operation from Terminal C there while renovating or rebuilding on that site.


The satellite concourse is in Terminal E, not Terminal A, but the substance of this is correct. AA wants to grow DFW to as close to ATL levels as possible, but could not do so due to gate constraints. Having the satellite helps immensely, while having a new terminal would probably get them there. Whether or not that's wise is, of course, a separate discussion.
 
FSDan
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:22 pm

dfw88 wrote:
FSDan wrote:

My understanding was that AA's latest growth spurt at DFW (mostly regional adds like MRY, BFL, AVL, MDT, etc.) was enabled by them taking control of the satellite concourse on Terminal A. Assuming that's true, it seems AA's growth at DFW is gate constrained. If they want to expand even further in the future, they'll need even more gates.

Another reason AA might be behind a new Terminal F is that new gates could allow them to shift some of their operation from Terminal C there while renovating or rebuilding on that site.


The satellite concourse is in Terminal E, not Terminal A, but the substance of this is correct. AA wants to grow DFW to as close to ATL levels as possible, but could not do so due to gate constraints. Having the satellite helps immensely, while having a new terminal would probably get them there. Whether or not that's wise is, of course, a separate discussion.


Whoops, good catch! I did mean Terminal E.
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UpNAWAy
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:31 pm

BTW RE: Lightning. The standard used to be within 3 miles it is now 5 miles and I believe it needs 15 minutes to get the all clear. On a bad day that can eat up tons of ramp time.
I have often wondered between that and Hail why not have a cantilever covering over the gate areas too as part of ta terminal design? I think a cost benefit analysis might surprise people in a airport like DFW.
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:39 pm

DFW is planning a new terminal for its overcapacity passengers. In stead of building a new semicircle terminal, the largest operator, AA prefer a liner terminal layout.


The plan would base on what American perfer, with 2 large terminal and 6 concourse, the maximum capacity would increase to 140million.


PHASE 1 (2022-2025)
Terminal will build two new "arms" across the central road to the south of terminal D, and the airside and landside are would be expanded.
The upgrade terminal E would increase 10mpax capacity.
Image


PHASE 2 (2025-2032)
Two new terminal would be built in the north and south of the existed terminals. Each of them can serve 25mpax.
Central road would be undergrounded for taxiway bridge in the future.
A new apm system next to central road would connect terminal A,B,C,D through new structure and terminal E. Altogether there are 8 stations in the new APM and it will replace the existing APM system.
Image


PHASE 3 (2032-2045)
The new concourse would be built and replace the existing terminal A-E. The concourse would be built from terminal A/B, then C/D and final terminal E. Each concourse could service 15mpax, with 2 terminals the new DFW could serve 140mpax.
Image


 
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macsog6
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:47 pm

QXfactor wrote:
tmoney wrote:
stevend08 wrote:
Now my biggest wish is to have direct airside walkways to terminals that are facing each other. So I won't have to cross 2 different terminals and 3-7 stops on the skylink whenever I'm connecting cross-terminal.



They already have airside walkways from A to B, and C to D, where you go right over the highway. In fact, other than Terminal E, the terminals all connect to each other (A to both B and C, B to both A and D, C to both A and D, and D to both B and C.)



Yes, they are. As part of trying to get some more exercise, I've been walking between terminals as opposed to always taking the SkyLink train. Walked from A36 to B5 yesterday and enjoyed the stroll.
Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
 
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william
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:48 pm

Is the new APM above ground or below?

Would explain theTRIP work stoppage for Terminal C.
Last edited by william on Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Fargo
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:54 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
DFW is planning a new terminal for its overcapacity passengers. In stead of building a new semicircle terminal, the largest operator, AA prefer a liner terminal layout.


The plan would base on what American perfer, with 2 large terminal and 6 concourse, the maximum capacity would increase to 140million.


PHASE 1 (2022-2025)
Terminal will build two new "arms" across the central road to the south of terminal D, and the airside and landside are would be expanded.
The upgrade terminal E would increase 10mpax capacity.
Image


PHASE 2 (2025-2032)
Two new terminal would be built in the north and south of the existed terminals. Each of them can serve 25mpax.
Central road would be undergrounded for taxiway bridge in the future.
A new apm system next to central road would connect terminal A,B,C,D through new structure and terminal E. Altogether there are 8 stations in the new APM and it will replace the existing APM system.
Image


PHASE 3 (2032-2045)
The new concourse would be built and replace the existing terminal A-E. The concourse would be built from terminal A/B, then C/D and final terminal E. Each concourse could service 15mpax, with 2 terminals the new DFW could serve 140mpax.
Image




So AA wants an ATL style layout after all? I believe it was just a few months ago I was vilified for suggesting this.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:31 pm

Fargo wrote:
chunhimlai wrote:
DFW is planning a new terminal for its overcapacity passengers. In stead of building a new semicircle terminal, the largest operator, AA prefer a liner terminal layout.


The plan would base on what American perfer, with 2 large terminal and 6 concourse, the maximum capacity would increase to 140million.


PHASE 1 (2022-2025)
Terminal will build two new "arms" across the central road to the south of terminal D, and the airside and landside are would be expanded.
The upgrade terminal E would increase 10mpax capacity.
Image


PHASE 2 (2025-2032)
Two new terminal would be built in the north and south of the existed terminals. Each of them can serve 25mpax.
Central road would be undergrounded for taxiway bridge in the future.
A new apm system next to central road would connect terminal A,B,C,D through new structure and terminal E. Altogether there are 8 stations in the new APM and it will replace the existing APM system.
Image


PHASE 3 (2032-2045)
The new concourse would be built and replace the existing terminal A-E. The concourse would be built from terminal A/B, then C/D and final terminal E. Each concourse could service 15mpax, with 2 terminals the new DFW could serve 140mpax.
Image




So AA wants an ATL style layout after all? I believe it was just a few months ago I was vilified for suggesting this.


Appears for E and future F. Its going to be tricky to rebuild E with current tenants.
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Fargo
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:38 pm

EvanWSFO wrote:
Fargo wrote:
chunhimlai wrote:
DFW is planning a new terminal for its overcapacity passengers. In stead of building a new semicircle terminal, the largest operator, AA prefer a liner terminal layout.


The plan would base on what American perfer, with 2 large terminal and 6 concourse, the maximum capacity would increase to 140million.



So AA wants an ATL style layout after all? I believe it was just a few months ago I was vilified for suggesting this.


Appears for E and future F. Its going to be tricky to rebuild E with current tenants.


That’s just phase 1. If you scroll down and look at the remaining plan, it calls for constructing two large terminals on both sides and then replacing the remainder with linear concourses.

Will be difficult, but it’s necessary.
 
YouGeeElWhy
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:11 pm

Y'all are acting like this toaster rack image diagram is official or even anything remotely based in reality. Chunhimlai is famous for posting nonsensical airport dreams. The debt and construction would be crippling to implement the toaster rack at DFW, it is simply not happening.
 
Fargo
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:15 pm

Never mind. I take back what I said. Didn’t realize this wasn’t official. Stupid me.
 
mcoatc
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Re: Unconfirmed: DFW to build terminal F which’ll most likely be international

Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:20 pm

Fargo wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
Fargo wrote:

So AA wants an ATL style layout after all? I believe it was just a few months ago I was vilified for suggesting this.


Appears for E and future F. Its going to be tricky to rebuild E with current tenants.


That’s just phase 1. If you scroll down and look at the remaining plan, it calls for constructing two large terminals on both sides and then replacing the remainder with linear concourses.

Will be difficult, but it’s necessary.


What plan??? The one some guy made up on his computer? They're not spending $50 billion to rebuild the place. They're just planning another terminal in a different shape. That's all the article says.

Linear isn't a necessity. AA never said it was, simply that the current design isn't ideal. There are ways to improve efficiencies that don't require rebuilding the place. I don't believe there is the money or desire to do so on the part of American or the airport.

chunhimlai wrote:
DFW is planning a new terminal for its overcapacity passengers. In stead of building a new semicircle terminal, the largest operator, AA prefer a liner terminal layout.


The plan would base on what American perfer, with 2 large terminal and 6 concourse, the maximum capacity would increase to 140million.


PHASE 1 (2022-2025)
Terminal will build two new "arms" across the central road to the south of terminal D, and the airside and landside are would be expanded.
The upgrade terminal E would increase 10mpax capacity.
Image


PHASE 2 (2025-2032)
Two new terminal would be built in the north and south of the existed terminals. Each of them can serve 25mpax.
Central road would be undergrounded for taxiway bridge in the future.
A new apm system next to central road would connect terminal A,B,C,D through new structure and terminal E. Altogether there are 8 stations in the new APM and it will replace the existing APM system.
Image


PHASE 3 (2032-2045)
The new concourse would be built and replace the existing terminal A-E. The concourse would be built from terminal A/B, then C/D and final terminal E. Each concourse could service 15mpax, with 2 terminals the new DFW could serve 140mpax.
Image




I assume AA is moving to an entire fleet of Cessna Caravans, because based upon the proximity of those terminals in the space available, that's the only thing that's going to fit in those alleys.

Planes4you wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
F needs to get going very soon, even the people in charge said a decision needed to be made quickly to avoid a gate shortage. And that was months ago. That way, C can be torn down and rebuilt once F is operational.

In the future, what about building a large, singular terminal on the outskirts of the airport to service LCC carriers and/or non-Oneworld domestic carriers? Especially if WN ever decides to operate flights at DFW (once the gate-for-gate restrictions expire). I mean further down the road, if AA/OW need more space at DFW even after the new terminal is built. DFW has a lot of empty land on the peripheries of the airport.



The international carrier area is in a gate shortage with how small it is scheduling is tight and soon passengers might have to board on the ramp


Wasn't that the entire point of the F hardstands? The ability to remote bus smaller aircraft during peak periods until more space is built. Other than Sun Country who uses that option or needs to?

No offense, but you continue to spew commentary with no proof. What do you do at DFW? Who are all of these planes with no gates? How does AA continue to add intl service with nowhere to park arrivals? Who are all of these new carriers lining up for service but are gate limited?

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