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AirbusOnly
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Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:07 am

Again "German Luftwaffe": :evil:

https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/berlin/ ... d-32385002

Translation of this text by Google:

No takeoffs and landings Broken Air Force Jet blocking air traffic in Schönefeld

Berlin -The check-in at Schönefeld Airport was completely stopped on Tuesday morning. Reason is a defective airplane on the runway, as the airport company announced via Twitter. Machines approaching are diverted. According to the Berliner Zeitung, a Learjet is responsible for the readiness of the Bundeswehr to fly.
The plane was lifted towards 9.30 clock towards Cologne. Shortly after takeoff, the pilot noticed that there had been a fault with the controller. Then he flew back to Schoenefeld immediately. In the emergency landing, the jet came off the runway. He touched the lawn, they say. Since the machine is unfavorable, all other landing approaches must be diverted. According to the Berliner Zeitung, passengers were not in the plane. It was only the crew on board. Nobody was injured according to previous findings. It is unclear how long the impairments will last.
 
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hilram
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:14 am

Thank God they have BER ready to take over... :biggrin:
Flown on: A319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343 | B732, 734, 735, 736, 73G, 738, 743, 744, 772, 77W | CRJ9 | BAe-146 | DHC-6, 7, 8 | F50 | E195 | MD DC-9 41, MD-82, MD-87
 
mxaxai
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:19 am

The Flugbereitschaft does not own or operate any Learjets. It was a Global 5000 - erroneous reporting by the Berliner Zeitung.

Apparently, the jet "touched the ground with both wings" during an emergency landing due to "control issues after takeoff", per the Luftwaffe's twitter.

I'm a bit confused though: Isn't the second BER runway already operational? Why not use that?
 
b747400erf
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:19 am

Horrible translation. If the translation is bad why post it?

Handling at Schoenefeld Airport was completely discontinued on Tuesday morning. The reason is a defective aircraft on the runway, as the airport company reported via Twitter. Aircraft in approach are being rerouted. According to the Berliner Zeitung, a Learjet of the Bundeswehr Air Mission Wing is responsible for this.

The plane took off for Cologne at about 9.30 a.m.. Shortly after take-off, the pilot had noticed that there had been a control error. As a result, he immediately flew back to Schoenefeld. During the emergency landing, the jet left the runway. It was said that it touched the lawn. Since the aircraft was standing unfavourably, all further landing approaches had to be diverted.

According to the Berliner Zeitung, passengers were not on the plane. Only the crew was on board. According to previous findings, nobody was injured. It is unclear how long the impairments will last.
 
PA101
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:04 am

mxaxai wrote:
I'm a bit confused though: Isn't the second BER runway already operational? Why not use that?


They can‘t. The legal framework says, if they start using both runways, TXL would have to close in 6 months (and everybody would be screwed).

An exception was, when one runway was undergoing maintenance. They used the newer one, and only that one, in the meantime (with very long taxiing times).
 
IWMBH
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:41 am

According to FR24 operations have resumed.
 
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Aisak
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:21 am

PA101 wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
I'm a bit confused though: Isn't the second BER runway already operational? Why not use that?


They can‘t. The legal framework says, if they start using both runways, TXL would have to close in 6 months (and everybody would be screwed).

An exception was, when one runway was undergoing maintenance. They used the newer one, and only that one, in the meantime (with very long taxiing times).


Wow... Then just declare "maintenance" on the closed/blocked one and get along. Shutting down an entire airport when it has an available, free, unblocked, ready to use, at hand, capable (i'm out of expresions) runway is just nuts!
 
Virtual737
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:42 am

Aisak wrote:
PA101 wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
I'm a bit confused though: Isn't the second BER runway already operational? Why not use that?


They can‘t. The legal framework says, if they start using both runways, TXL would have to close in 6 months (and everybody would be screwed).

An exception was, when one runway was undergoing maintenance. They used the newer one, and only that one, in the meantime (with very long taxiing times).


Wow... Then just declare "maintenance" on the closed/blocked one and get along. Shutting down an entire airport when it has an available, free, unblocked, ready to use, at hand, capable (i'm out of expresions) runway is just nuts!


Don't forget that the "other" runway at Schönefeld is actually the southern runway of the new Brandenburg airport. Due to the "legal framework" mentioned in the post you quoted, it wouldn't surprise me if it's use would need to be approved in advance rather than as and when they wanted.
 
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cougar15
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:05 pm

PA101 wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
I'm a bit confused though: Isn't the second BER runway already operational? Why not use that?


They can‘t. The legal framework says, if they start using both runways, TXL would have to close in 6 months (and everybody would be screwed).

An exception was, when one runway was undergoing maintenance. They used the newer one, and only that one, in the meantime (with very long taxiing times).


The funny thing is (and right you are on the RW issue) freight operators like 3V (TNT/ASL) are actually already using what is considered the freight apron of BER and their facility (Airhub) is considered part of BER, not SXF! Now if only the pax would finally get a chance to saviour the new airport (finally, one day, perhaps, eventually, my grandkids...…)
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:36 pm

b747400erf wrote:
H According to previous findings, nobody was injured. It is unclear how long the impairments will last.

Good! :D
 
Noshow
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:30 pm

It's said to have been a Global 5000 of Luftwaffe that had it's first flight after heavy maintenance. They suffered serious flight control issues and landed on the grass as they couldn't control their direction more precise. Lucky outcome it seems.
 
columba
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:30 pm

Pictures of the landing, could have turned very bad very quickly:
https://www.aerotelegraph.com/berlin-sc ... und-rechts
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
PA101
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:39 pm

Aisak wrote:
Wow... Then just declare "maintenance" on the closed/blocked one and get along. Shutting down an entire airport when it has an available, free, unblocked, ready to use, at hand, capable (i'm out of expresions) runway is just nuts!


TBH, Berlin is totally nuts (trust me, I live here), so please don’t expect any logic in regards of Berlins airports...
 
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BobMUC
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:15 pm

columba wrote:
Pictures of the landing, could have turned very bad very quickly:
https://www.aerotelegraph.com/berlin-sc ... und-rechts


I think that's NOT the way a normal landing should look like... A 10+ to the pilots!
Article confirms that both wings have touched the ground and the plane is heavily damaged.
 
G500Captain
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:22 pm

The rudder is at full deflection. I wonder if that was the issue?
Every time I get on an airliner, I’m reminded why I have a job.
 
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sturmovik
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:08 pm

Reminds me of that RuAF Tu-154 a few years ago, there's a video on youtube somewhere.
'What's it doing now?'
 
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FredrikHAD
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:43 pm

It seems even more similar to the Astana E190 last November, with severe flight control issues after heavy maintenance at Lisbon.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4c04438e&opt=1

/Fredrik
 
chrisp390
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:57 pm

Machines???
 
mxaxai
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:58 pm

BobMUC wrote:
columba wrote:
Pictures of the landing, could have turned very bad very quickly:
https://www.aerotelegraph.com/berlin-sc ... und-rechts


I think that's NOT the way a normal landing should look like... A 10+ to the pilots!
Article confirms that both wings have touched the ground and the plane is heavily damaged.

In image 8, you can see the spoilers deployed on the right wing, consistent with a roll input to the right. However, the aircraft is already severely banked to the right. The ailerons are, simultaneously, deflected in the opposite direction.

In image 9, the opposite appears to be the case. The left wing's spoilers are deployed, as they would be in a roll input to the left (into the turn), while the ailerons are clearly deflected for a roll input to the right. Left aileron deflected downwards, right aileron deflected upwards.

Could this be a sign of reversed controls? Either for the spoilers or the ailerons. Under the assumption that these steep turns were not initiated by the pilots and that the ailerons are following the pilot inputs, it would appear that a pilot input to one side would activate the spoilers to the opposite side.
 
26point2
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:35 pm

Picture 8/10 shows plane is in a right bank with full left aileron input BUT with right wing roll spoilers extended. Left aileron should have Left wing roll spoilers extended...no?

....you beat me to it. Still wondering though.

The GLEX after start checklist includes a "Flight Controls Check" with the flight control synoptic page up one can see exactly what the ailerons and spoilers are doing (not visible from the cockpit window). This check was presumably not done? Perhaps a subtle difference between Left vs. Right spoilers deploying during the check was missed. Test flights after mx can be full of distractions and danger.
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:51 pm

PA101 wrote:
[The legal framework says, if they start using both runways, TXL would have to close in 6 months (and everybody would be screwed).

How and why did they think this was a good idea? And considering BER is being delayed for so long, couldn't they change or suspend that provision?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:30 am

Wow that land has bad juju. Did someone disturb some anchient bureacrat/high priest whose specter will haunt the grounds until appeased.

Why no, I cannot take the delays at the airport seriously anymore. Why do you ask?

Lightsaber
Flu+Covid19 is bad. Consider a flu vaccine, if not for yourself, to protect someone you care about.
 
b747400erf
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:00 am

AntonioMartin wrote:
b747400erf wrote:
H According to previous findings, nobody was injured. It is unclear how long the impairments will last.

Good! :D

It sounds like me after a night of heavy drinking.
 
fraport
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:54 am

PA101 wrote:
Aisak wrote:
Wow... Then just declare "maintenance" on the closed/blocked one and get along. Shutting down an entire airport when it has an available, free, unblocked, ready to use, at hand, capable (i'm out of expresions) runway is just nuts!


TBH, Berlin is totally nuts (trust me, I live here), so please don’t expect any logic in regards of Berlins airports...


TBH, this is just BS. You can't open a closed runway from one minute to the next. Ever heard of ATC? Departure and arrival routes? Availability of fire brigades? Clearance of all taxiways leading to and from the closed runway (some of them not being within the security area because it's still a construction site). And so on...
It took monhts of preparation to put the new runway into operation when they refurbished the old runway.
 
PA101
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:05 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
PA101 wrote:
[The legal framework says, if they start using both runways, TXL would have to close in 6 months (and everybody would be screwed).

How and why did they think this was a good idea? And considering BER is being delayed for so long, couldn't they change or suspend that provision?


Because it was made up by politicians? When BER was planned, all experts recommend another site further south of Berlin (the site of an old military airport with hardly any neighbors), but the government of Berlin thought it was too far from the city. So they opted for extending SXF, which has far more residents in close proximity, instead. To justify the extension, back in the 90s, the aviation traffic didn’t really warrant a mass extension, they connected the closures of THF and TXL (which is to be closed 6 months after BERs south runway being opened) to the planning and building permit for BER. The courts (since residents sued) approved it after all, but also stated, it’s only justified because of the closure of the other two and the relief for much more residents in proximity to them.

Meanwhile, things have changed quite a bit. BER is delayed and delayed, traffic has spiked up considerably (approx. 35 million pax for TXL and SXF in 2018), Berliners voted in a referendum in 2017 to keep TXL (which copes with most of the increased traffic quite well, but it’s rundown and hasn’t seen any investments or refurbishments in years) open, but the governments of Berlin and Brandenburg insist of having BER as a single airport and not touching any of the permits....
 
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c933103
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:00 am

PA101 wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
I'm a bit confused though: Isn't the second BER runway already operational? Why not use that?


They can‘t. The legal framework says, if they start using both runways, TXL would have to close in 6 months (and everybody would be screwed).

An exception was, when one runway was undergoing maintenance. They used the newer one, and only that one, in the meantime (with very long taxiing times).

But using another runway when the original runway is closed shouldn't count as using both runways? Unless it was worded differently
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate.
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Blacktimes
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:59 am

Spoilers left in maintenance mode and missed in pre-flt checks? Happened many many years ago on an A320 and spoiler deployed in the air with the wing vacuum. Crew experienced severe dificulties and it was only one spoiler...
 
wexfordflyer
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:20 pm

columba wrote:
Pictures of the landing, could have turned very bad very quickly:
https://www.aerotelegraph.com/berlin-sc ... und-rechts


Woah!!! Those photos look pretty scary. This could have ended an awful lot worse!
Come with me, there's a place I want you to see, where the leaves are dark, I've got a hiding place in central park.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:28 am

lightsaber wrote:
Wow that land has bad juju. Did someone disturb some anchient bureacrat/high priest whose specter will haunt the grounds until appeased.

Lightsaber

(talking like the crypt from Tales from the Crypt) "well, hello, kiddies! I am here spotting aircraft at the international airport...the international airport of hell, that is! HAHAHAHA!...and talking about airports in hell, may I offer you a story that will make you wish you were flying there?AHAHAHAHAHAAAA! We have people flying scared...flying scared into an airport on top of a high priest's tomb! I call this episode 'Terminal destination'...HAHAHAHAHA!!! Have a nice fright, kids, I'll see you there!, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Airport Berlin-Schönefeld (SXF) currently closed because of an accident

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:32 am

b747400erf wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
b747400erf wrote:
H According to previous findings, nobody was injured. It is unclear how long the impairments will last.

Good! :D

It sounds like me after a night of heavy drinking.

Or me... :lol:

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