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Blankbarcode wrote:How large of a gap left behind are we talking here? Here in AMS Jet Airways has a pretty large presence, I can only imagine India will feel it immensely? Unfamiliar with the entirety of Jet Airways' situation, sorry.
CaliguyNYC wrote:Call me crazy but I don't see DL and crew transferring pax to Spice or Indigo in EU for onward to India - but who knows
klm617 wrote:Yes but according to a.net Delta's aspirations to serve India all rested on the route network of Jet Airways. One would think that Delta would have did a better job researching the partner they chose. It's little different with Delta because they are considered to be the financial geniuses of the airline world again according to a.net.
CaliguyNYC wrote:Call me crazy but I don't see DL and crew transferring pax to Spice or Indigo in EU for onward to India - but who knows
Blankbarcode wrote:How large of a gap left behind are we talking here? Here in AMS Jet Airways has a pretty large presence, I can only imagine India will feel it immensely? Unfamiliar with the entirety of Jet Airways' situation, sorry.
blrsea wrote:This was a long time coming. Irrespective of what some politically-biased posters may say about the situation deteriorating in last 8 months and blaming on the parties they hate based on emotion instead of facts, the real fact is that Jet never consistently made profits for more than couple of quarters in the last 10 years. They somehow managed to cripple along using one loan to pay off another, till the last round of fuel spikes etc finally bust the bubble. They also went through 7-8 CEOs in the last 10 years as the owner Naresh Goyal was not willing to give them a free hand.
klm617 wrote:Additionally, the real question is of course how did Etihad make such a big mistake by buying 24% of these guys?
klm617 wrote:Yes but according to a.net Delta's aspirations to serve India all rested on the route network of Jet Airways. One would think that Delta would have did a better job researching the partner they chose. It's little different with Delta because they are considered to be the financial geniuses of the airline world again according to a.net.
winginit wrote:To bring things back on topic, what happens to Jet's 77Ws? With an average age of 11 years they aren't spring chickens but curious as to where they might end up. Apologies if that was already brought up in the previous thread.
klm617 wrote:Additionally, the real question is of course how did Etihad make such a big mistake by buying 24% of these guys?
lightsaber wrote:Blankbarcode wrote:How large of a gap left behind are we talking here? Here in AMS Jet Airways has a pretty large presence, I can only imagine India will feel it immensely? Unfamiliar with the entirety of Jet Airways' situation, sorry.
AF and KLM are opperating at least one extra daily flight to replace Jet uplift:
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 0.ece/amp/
Fares are up 28%, so yes, everyone is feeling it.
Capacity to DXB is being requested (SpiceJet, AirIndia and I would assume Indigo all want in). Capacity to AUH has gone unfilled. To my knowledge, low priority.
BOM-DEL fares shot up (going from memory) 30%. SpiceJet will fill that demand quickly.
India was over served internationally and domestically prior the the Jet collapse. Now it is under-served. In the prior thread I estimated it was over-served by 50 to 70 aircraft just as it is now under-served by 50 to 70 aircraft. Growth is fast in India, so another 8 to 14 additional aircraft are needed every month. So while over 50 additional aircraft will serve the market by end of summer (mostly SpiceJet and Indigo), it will take, per my estimate, 15 to 24 months for the market to be correctly served.
Then I expect the world's fastest growing aviation market to once again become over-supplied. Cest la vie. The ULCCs seem positioned to survive a multi year fare war.
My big question is DL to BOM. Does this kill or improve the business case? : scratchchin:
I think the later. DL will partner with someone else. Who?
Side comment: the big India/US airline partnerships I root for all implode! (Kingfisher/AA, Jet/DL).
Many interesting repercussions. My heart goes out to Jet employees. Creative distruction is not fun.
Lightsaber
behramjee wrote:
Hopefully KL will make BOM daily soon and consider BLR from W19 season..
klm617 wrote:Additionally, the real question is of course how did Etihad make such a big mistake by buying 24% of these guys?
blr380 wrote:I hope someone can answer this: 9W ran out of cash and nobody is willing to offer additional loans. So, how will the refunds be processed? Who pays for the refunds? Call center seems to be closed as well (I understand even they need to get paid).
sunking737 wrote:How fast will the leasing companies find homes for their 737's
dtw2hyd wrote:klm617 wrote:Yes but according to a.net Delta's aspirations to serve India all rested on the route network of Jet Airways. One would think that Delta would have did a better job researching the partner they chose. It's little different with Delta because they are considered to be the financial geniuses of the airline world again according to a.net.
There was no doubt 9W was DL's silver bullet to recapture US-India market share from ME3. For the most part, it worked. AF/KL is pretty much saddled with union issues. VS was not in a position to expand India network. Air India is tainted goods.
What other options DL has?
CaliguyNYC wrote:Call me crazy but I don't see DL and crew transferring pax to Spice or Indigo in EU for onward to India - but who knows
lightsaber wrote:winginit wrote:To bring things back on topic, what happens to Jet's 77Ws? With an average age of 11 years they aren't spring chickens but curious as to where they might end up. Apologies if that was already brought up in the previous thread.
A fair question. So far used 77Ws haven't had much trouble finding a home. However, I believe this is enough additional 77Ws to suddenly hit the market, combined with A350 and 787 production, that the used pricing of 77Ws just took a hit.
Varsity1 wrote:Does AA have any potential partners in India?
PatrickZ80 wrote:Varsity1 wrote:Does AA have any potential partners in India?
Not in India but they do have Sri Lankan Airways which is a OneWorld member. Sri Lankan does have a good coverage of India.
Varsity1 wrote:Does AA have any potential partners in India?
lightsaber wrote:dtw2hyd wrote:klm617 wrote:Yes but according to a.net Delta's aspirations to serve India all rested on the route network of Jet Airways. One would think that Delta would have did a better job researching the partner they chose. It's little different with Delta because they are considered to be the financial geniuses of the airline world again according to a.net.
There was no doubt 9W was DL's silver bullet to recapture US-India market share from ME3. For the most part, it worked. AF/KL is pretty much saddled with union issues. VS was not in a position to expand India network. Air India is tainted goods.
What other options DL has?
DL has phenomenal premium feed. I believe ATL to BOM could work without Indian participation.
However, DL adapts. Considering the Indian portion of the trip is under 2 hours, they could partner with anyone. Now due to alliances/ownership, I rule out Air India, Vistara, and Air Asia. While an ULCC has less appeal, it could be package to work.
Do recall bridge hubbing is fading (two or more connections). With the sudden spike in fares in/out of India, now is the time to launch service. DL has time to partner for connections. They might pick 2 partners...
This is an opportunity. Besides, SpiceJet might discover they want to keep the fat seats.
Lightsaber
PatrickZ80 wrote:Varsity1 wrote:Does AA have any potential partners in India?
Not in India but they do have Sri Lankan Airways which is a OneWorld member. Sri Lankan does have a good coverage of India.
P1aneMad wrote:Really sad about Jet's employees and passengers with tickets on hand who most probably will lose their money.
Another very bad day for the 737 MAX as well with 200 orders vanishing into thin air and Indian market becoming even more NEO centered.
LondonXtreme wrote:The route like LHR-BOM will be mostly affected. 9W offers 2 daily LHR-BOM now, after shutdown, only BA(2 daily) and AI(1 daily) serve this route with huge reduction of capacity. Will VS come back to BOM to pick some leftovers?
Spiderguy252 wrote:Typical A.net - so American centric.
9W have been around for a long time and are an important cog in the Indian aviation story.
lightsaber wrote:[/quote]In the prior thread I estimated it was over-served by 50 to 70 aircraft just as it is now under-served by 50 to 70 aircraft. Growth is fast in India, so another 8 to 14 additional aircraft are needed every month. So while over 50 additional aircraft will serve the market by end of summer (mostly SpiceJet and Indigo), it will take, per my estimate, 15 to 24 months for the market to be correctly served.
Lightsaber
P1aneMad wrote:Really sad about Jet's employees and passengers with tickets on hand who most probably will lose their money.
Another very bad day for the 737 MAX as well with 200 orders vanishing into thin air and Indian market becoming even more NEO centered.
klm617 wrote:lightsaber wrote:dtw2hyd wrote:
There was no doubt 9W was DL's silver bullet to recapture US-India market share from ME3. For the most part, it worked. AF/KL is pretty much saddled with union issues. VS was not in a position to expand India network. Air India is tainted goods.
What other options DL has?
DL has phenomenal premium feed. I believe ATL to BOM could work without Indian participation.
However, DL adapts. Considering the Indian portion of the trip is under 2 hours, they could partner with anyone. Now due to alliances/ownership, I rule out Air India, Vistara, and Air Asia. While an ULCC has less appeal, it could be package to work.
Do recall bridge hubbing is fading (two or more connections). With the sudden spike in fares in/out of India, now is the time to launch service. DL has time to partner for connections. They might pick 2 partners...
This is an opportunity. Besides, SpiceJet might discover they want to keep the fat seats.
Lightsaber
I know everyone likes to cheer on ATL as being able to make any route work but the fact is ATL-India hasn't worked yet for Delta and with TK and QR in the mix now out of ATL I really think that ATL-BOM would be a big money loser. Delta needs to go where the competition is thin and they have a lot of feed and pricing power plus a good O/D market to make India work and that isn't JFK or ATL
klm617 wrote:lightsaber wrote:dtw2hyd wrote:
There was no doubt 9W was DL's silver bullet to recapture US-India market share from ME3. For the most part, it worked. AF/KL is pretty much saddled with union issues. VS was not in a position to expand India network. Air India is tainted goods.
What other options DL has?
DL has phenomenal premium feed. I believe ATL to BOM could work without Indian participation.
However, DL adapts. Considering the Indian portion of the trip is under 2 hours, they could partner with anyone. Now due to alliances/ownership, I rule out Air India, Vistara, and Air Asia. While an ULCC has less appeal, it could be package to work.
Do recall bridge hubbing is fading (two or more connections). With the sudden spike in fares in/out of India, now is the time to launch service. DL has time to partner for connections. They might pick 2 partners...
This is an opportunity. Besides, SpiceJet might discover they want to keep the fat seats.
Lightsaber
I know everyone likes to cheer on ATL as being able to make any route work but the fact is ATL-India hasn't worked yet for Delta and with TK and QR in the mix now out of ATL I really think that ATL-BOM would be a big money loser. Delta needs to go where the competition is thin and they have a lot of feed and pricing power plus a good O/D market to make India work and that isn't JFK or ATL
acavpics wrote:Only now am I realizing that SG is going to be the only Indian user of the 737 in general.
samshik88 wrote:klm617 wrote:lightsaber wrote:DL has phenomenal premium feed. I believe ATL to BOM could work without Indian participation.
However, DL adapts. Considering the Indian portion of the trip is under 2 hours, they could partner with anyone. Now due to alliances/ownership, I rule out Air India, Vistara, and Air Asia. While an ULCC has less appeal, it could be package to work.
Do recall bridge hubbing is fading (two or more connections). With the sudden spike in fares in/out of India, now is the time to launch service. DL has time to partner for connections. They might pick 2 partners...
This is an opportunity. Besides, SpiceJet might discover they want to keep the fat seats.
Lightsaber
I know everyone likes to cheer on ATL as being able to make any route work but the fact is ATL-India hasn't worked yet for Delta and with TK and QR in the mix now out of ATL I really think that ATL-BOM would be a big money loser. Delta needs to go where the competition is thin and they have a lot of feed and pricing power plus a good O/D market to make India work and that isn't JFK or ATL
I agree... I think MSP might be a suitable candidate or even BOS. Not sure what else in the DL network would work at all.
Antarius wrote:lightsaber wrote:winginit wrote:To bring things back on topic, what happens to Jet's 77Ws? With an average age of 11 years they aren't spring chickens but curious as to where they might end up. Apologies if that was already brought up in the previous thread.
A fair question. So far used 77Ws haven't had much trouble finding a home. However, I believe this is enough additional 77Ws to suddenly hit the market, combined with A350 and 787 production, that the used pricing of 77Ws just took a hit.
I could see BA snapping them up. They just picked up a few more 77Ws and seem to be quite happy with them.
PatrickZ80 wrote:CaliguyNYC wrote:Call me crazy but I don't see DL and crew transferring pax to Spice or Indigo in EU for onward to India - but who knows
Nothing is impossible, Air France-KLM codeshares with more LCCs. For example GOL in Brazil and FlySafair in South Africa. And of course on their home turf some flights are operated by Transavia.
How are IndiGo and SpiceJet different from GOL and FlySafair?
dtw2hyd wrote:Spiderguy252 wrote:Typical A.net - so American centric.
9W have been around for a long time and are an important cog in the Indian aviation story.
Wasn't everyone from India arguing that 9W is irrelevant to Indian aviation and other healthy and capable airlines can fill the vacuum?
The only ones hoping that 9W would survive are passengers who get transferred from its international code-share partners and being mocked by others.
Now coming and saying it was an important part of Indian aviation is ironic.