User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 17514
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:27 pm

VTCIE wrote:
avier wrote:
I feel for the employees, some of whom have been with the airline since it's inception- 25 years back. Some from day 1 at the airlines start. Many fear they won't be employable again because of their age factor, as other airlines prefer to hire younger employees. Sad.

Save Our Family: Angry Employees Protest As Jet Airways Grounded
https://www.ndtv.com/business/jet-airwa ... ed-2025128

Teary-Eyed Employees Plea For Its Revival
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.news18.com/amp/photogallery/india/jet-airways-grounded-teary-eyed-employees-plea-for-revival-2107971.html

Absolutely heart-rending scenes. I do not know whether there was such an outburst of emotions when IT went under. By IT, I mean Kingfisher Airlines.

Another equally heart-wrenching video is this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbpXbkcgnCI

Whatever, 9W was a pillar in the Indian aviation sector, but the cement turned out to be compromised. The resulting crash has potentially killed thousands. I mean thousands of jobs, not—God forbid (as a result of unemployment)—lives.

I'm very interested in what happens to Jet employees. Unfortunately for them, there are now more looking for a paycheck than slots.

The Indian pilot shortage is temporarily over. Will some pilots leave India for better pay? I posted a link early in this thread that had 70% pay offers for more duty time.

For technicans, 30% to 50% pay cuts. I had to take a 10% cut in the last recession and that hurt. I had been saving 20% of my income, so no crisis, but still financial ouch! I couldn't imagine what senior technicians are going through.

For everyone else, triple ouch. I wish them well.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
Antarius
Posts: 1501
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:31 pm

unrave wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
Technically Indian airlines have rights to fly to London, not LHR specifically, under the bilateral, so someone could apply for STN (and probably get it) or LGW (which is also short of slots).

Is STN easily accessible from London city?


It isn't the best, but it is doable. Not particularly less convenient than LHR or LGW (which isn't saying much).

The issue with STN is you are 100% reliant on O&D traffic. No one is going to schlep from STN to LHR or LGW for a connection.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
Antarius
Posts: 1501
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:38 pm

unrave wrote:
vadodara wrote:

GoI by staying out did the right thing. Except for emotional reasons, 9W will be largely forgotten in a few months.

Absolutely. GoI should not care one bit if 9W lives or dies.


While I agree the government rightfully stayed out of this, they really do need to do an RCFA on 9W and others. The environment is very difficult to survive in across the board, and this is with relatively low fuel prices. Obviously, the lion share of the blame goes to 9W since 6E and SG are still flying and growing, but in a global period of record airline profits, the numbers from India should be concerning.

Some rule changes and eliminating the eternal money sink of AI could do wonders.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:41 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Obsession with widebodies played a major role for IT, AI and 9W troubles. One has to wait and see how UK handles its WB ops. The fun and joy end the day first WB joins the fleet. From crew training to logistics, it is a different ball game.

For a low-yield country like India, airlines should experiment long-haul with just narrowbodies. They should bet on MAX/797/NMA/NSA and A321LR/XLR.

So you think those airlines should have limited themselves to India and surroundings and not expand to other international destinations OR run narrow bodies to UK, USA, SA, Austraia ?
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:51 pm

unrave wrote:
Just a shower thought: Given that the principal beneficiaries of Jet's below cost fares and on board largesses were Indians residing abroad, shouldn't they try to crowd source a fund to rescue their beloved carrier?

Maybe for NYC/Toronto to BOM crowd. Else jet's presence in North America was largely inconsequential.
Love the AIXes
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7069
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:01 pm

aarbee wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Obsession with widebodies played a major role for IT, AI and 9W troubles. One has to wait and see how UK handles its WB ops. The fun and joy end the day first WB joins the fleet. From crew training to logistics, it is a different ball game.

For a low-yield country like India, airlines should experiment long-haul with just narrowbodies. They should bet on MAX/797/NMA/NSA and A321LR/XLR.

So you think those airlines should have limited themselves to India and surroundings and not expand to other international destinations OR run narrow bodies to UK, USA, SA, Austraia ?


Isn't every other option has been already tried with limited success or failed miserably?

DEL/BOM hubs with 35 domestic connections
DEL-US non-stops to 4 US metros
DEL-Europe non-stops to 9?? EU stations
DEL-Australia non-stops
ME3 hubs with 13 Indian stations
Western European hubs with 2-5(mostly 2) Indian stations

What else is left to try without going under other than narrowbody long-haul?
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 17514
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:24 pm

Antarius wrote:
Some rule changes and eliminating the eternal money sink of AI could do wonders.

There was prior discussion on AI dumping last minute seats onto the market ruining the private airline yield systems. I believe this pushed Jet into bankruptcy. Either AI is privatized (or shut down) or the issues will continue.

I didn't quote you, but it is concerning the lowish profits of Indian airlines during relatively low oil pricing. The sudden influx of prior generation aircraft into the surviving airlines only makes them more vulnerable to a spike in oil:
AI used 77Ws
SpiceJet used 738 (hopefully shorter leases).
Indigo used CEOs.

The 787, A350, and 777X are selling well for their efficiency. Production of narrowbody aircraft is shifting to new generation to save 15% or more per flight. With India's high jetfuel taxes, the effect is multiplied.

Note:. I believe in the current quarter AI made a profit! :faint: This fare environment is temporary, is obviously hurting non-aviation Indian business growth, and will, in my estimate, end within 2 years.

I'm curious what Jet's bankruptcy does to SBI... There will be impacted.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 17514
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:32 pm

aarbee wrote:
unrave wrote:
Just a shower thought: Given that the principal beneficiaries of Jet's below cost fares and on board largesses were Indians residing abroad, shouldn't they try to crowd source a fund to rescue their beloved carrier?

Maybe for NYC/Toronto to BOM crowd. Else jet's presence in North America was largely inconsequential.

The cure for high prices is even higher pricing.

Today's bonanza in and out of India won't last. What will these expatriates pay during the shortage? An extra $600 round trip? If by some miracle the high fare stay elevated all year, that is about another $3 billion USD in spending. Since aviation has a multiplicative effect on the economy (usually a factor of 8 to 20), that is a loss of business in India of $24 billion to $60 billion USD per year. It might not be noticed.

I think people in India will care more. In particular when friends and relatives skip a trip back. I don't think my estimated cost to those expatriates would be enough to restart Jet.

I think the airlines in India will find a solution earlier. The first step is use narrowbody aircraft to replace the lost 13,000 seats/week to DXB. The next step is return flights to HKG and SIN. If still bad, AUH, DOH, and ISL/SAW or ADD is an opportunity to expand.

Since the USA has an open skies, DL could add an AMS-India tagon or CDG-India (say with A330NEOs) or a direct. Same with AA or UA from their partner hubs or a direct.

As others noted, except for those directly impacted, Jet will be forgotten soon.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 17514
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:45 pm

SpiceJet has announced 6 more 737NG (in addition to the 16 previously announced and ATRs):

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL3N2201D6

Are these ex-Jet aircraft? I assume ex-Jet pilot resumes are flooding in to SpiceJet, Indigo, GoAir, Vistara, and AirAsia India. Jet naturally will be inclined to 737 pilots.

This exceeded the growth I estimated for SpiceJet. I wonder how many more they could induct in 2019?

The sooner flights are started, the sooner fares stabilize. Sadly, the sooner Jet is forgotten.

Does anyone have a chart directing Indian airline RPKs trending with time?

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
User avatar
Viman
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:30 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:25 pm

acavpics wrote:
How empty have BOM's terminal 2 and DEL T3 become at this point? - I'm guessing that they are pretty much ghost towns during the daytime domestic rush hours now.


Nope, you are mistaken, I was flying from BOM Terminal 2 just two days back and it was as full as ever with passengers. Apart from Air India and Vistara, Indigo has also started operations from BOM Terminal 2 as they are getting Jet Airways slots, expect Spicejet to also increase flights from these terminals once they induct 22 737 and 6 Q400 within ten days from now.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1026
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:35 pm

lightsaber wrote:
unrave wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

But in India if they would have sold off the 77W and BOM slots for say $500M, people would have gone crazy that the buyer got some special deal. So instead they just close Jet. Most businesses are not liquidated by shutting them down and not selling things off.


Airport slots are not the property of the airline to be sold. When an airline fails its slots revert to the airport operator. And before you say it, I know airlines trade slots in LHR but India is not UK. BOM is not LHR. Let us discuss things the way they work in India.

As noted, the LHR slots were leased. Indian law doesn't apply. Perhaps EY will lease the slots?

Pune slots are already going to first come first serve (Indigo and SpiceJet). BOM slots will find homes quickly. I expect SpiceJet and Indigo to gain the bulk.

DXB slots will be contested. SpiceJet, Air India, and Indigo will fight over the seat allocation (13,000/week now up for grabs mated to some very attractive times at DXB). Because it is India, I expect AI to do well for these.

The BOM slots could have been sold with the AOC back when Jet was viable. Now it is up in the air, with first come first served hard to fight. Possession is 9/10ths of the law...

Lightsaber


Focusing on Lightsaber's comment "The BOM slots could have been sold with the AOC back when Jet was viable. Now it is up in the air, with first come first served hard to fight. Possession is 9/10th of the law..."

Well at least finally someone acknowledges the slots could have been sold (not as an individual asset but as part of a bigger deal). That is all I was saying. When Sahara was sold, the slots went with them. I hear you on the saying possession is 9/10th blah blah. But it is just that a saying. A thief has possession but doesn't own it (I know that is an extreme example). In the end the GOI has been very clear that the slots are temporary. So Jet theoretically still has the BOM slots. Will that change anything - don't think so. But it could. I still think the Banks should auction off the Jet 77W and BOM slots now that Jet has closed. I think the banks have air cover for this.
 
ExpatVet
Posts: 98
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:35 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:43 pm

Antarius wrote:
unrave wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
Technically Indian airlines have rights to fly to London, not LHR specifically, under the bilateral, so someone could apply for STN (and probably get it) or LGW (which is also short of slots).

Is STN easily accessible from London city?


It isn't the best, but it is doable. Not particularly less convenient than LHR or LGW (which isn't saying much).

The issue with STN is you are 100% reliant on O&D traffic. No one is going to schlep from STN to LHR or LGW for a connection.


The other issue is that to "connect" to a flight intra-STN, you have to clear immigration and reclear security to get the next flight.
L101, 733/4/5/8, 741/2/3 (never managed 744!), MD 80/2/3/8/90, MD11, DHC8/3/Q4, E170, E195, 757, 77W, 763/4, Travel Air 2000. A300/310, A319/320/321, A333, ATR-72, probably a few others I forget. Passenger, not pilot, alas! BUD based.
 
User avatar
Viman
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:30 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:48 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
unrave wrote:

Airport slots are not the property of the airline to be sold. When an airline fails its slots revert to the airport operator. And before you say it, I know airlines trade slots in LHR but India is not UK. BOM is not LHR. Let us discuss things the way they work in India.

As noted, the LHR slots were leased. Indian law doesn't apply. Perhaps EY will lease the slots?

Pune slots are already going to first come first serve (Indigo and SpiceJet). BOM slots will find homes quickly. I expect SpiceJet and Indigo to gain the bulk.

DXB slots will be contested. SpiceJet, Air India, and Indigo will fight over the seat allocation (13,000/week now up for grabs mated to some very attractive times at DXB). Because it is India, I expect AI to do well for these.

The BOM slots could have been sold with the AOC back when Jet was viable. Now it is up in the air, with first come first served hard to fight. Possession is 9/10ths of the law...

Lightsaber


Focusing on Lightsaber's comment "The BOM slots could have been sold with the AOC back when Jet was viable. Now it is up in the air, with first come first served hard to fight. Possession is 9/10th of the law..."

Well at least finally someone acknowledges the slots could have been sold (not as an individual asset but as part of a bigger deal). That is all I was saying. When Sahara was sold, the slots went with them. I hear you on the saying possession is 9/10th blah blah. But it is just that a saying. A thief has possession but doesn't own it (I know that is an extreme example). In the end the GOI has been very clear that the slots are temporary. So Jet theoretically still has the BOM slots. Will that change anything - don't think so. But it could. I still think the Banks should auction off the Jet 77W and BOM slots now that Jet has closed. I think the banks have air cover for this.


Jet Airways Pune slots have been assigned permanently to Indigo and Spice Jet as declared by Pune Airport director himself, the same will happen with BOM slots too, the temporary will become permanent.

Naresh Goyal decided to kill Jet Airways rather than lose control and he succeeded in his endeavour, he stepped down at last only after he knew that the airline is dead. Now is the time for Jet Airways fanboys(NRI's and South Bombay Elite) to mourn and let it go. Some of these people will have to travel domestically with Indigo and Spicejet but they will get used to it.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 17514
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:51 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
unrave wrote:

Airport slots are not the property of the airline to be sold. When an airline fails its slots revert to the airport operator. And before you say it, I know airlines trade slots in LHR but India is not UK. BOM is not LHR. Let us discuss things the way they work in India.

As noted, the LHR slots were leased. Indian law doesn't apply. Perhaps EY will lease the slots?

Pune slots are already going to first come first serve (Indigo and SpiceJet). BOM slots will find homes quickly. I expect SpiceJet and Indigo to gain the bulk.

DXB slots will be contested. SpiceJet, Air India, and Indigo will fight over the seat allocation (13,000/week now up for grabs mated to some very attractive times at DXB). Because it is India, I expect AI to do well for these.

The BOM slots could have been sold with the AOC back when Jet was viable. Now it is up in the air, with first come first served hard to fight. Possession is 9/10ths of the law...

Lightsaber


Focusing on Lightsaber's comment "The BOM slots could have been sold with the AOC back when Jet was viable. Now it is up in the air, with first come first served hard to fight. Possession is 9/10th of the law..."

Well at least finally someone acknowledges the slots could have been sold (not as an individual asset but as part of a bigger deal). That is all I was saying. When Sahara was sold, the slots went with them. I hear you on the saying possession is 9/10th blah blah. But it is just that a saying. A thief has possession but doesn't own it (I know that is an extreme example). In the end the GOI has been very clear that the slots are temporary. So Jet theoretically still has the BOM slots. Will that change anything - don't think so. But it could. I still think the Banks should auction off the Jet 77W and BOM slots now that Jet has closed. I think the banks have air cover for this.

I disagree. The airlines will sue for compensation if a slot is taken back. Also, BOM assigns slots and lacks a process to legally sell them. This isn't theft, it was a race. As far as I can tell the slots belong to the opperating airline. Jet is soon going to violate not opperating slots enough to keep them. If the temporary airline can opperate the slot longer than the forfeit time, the slot is theirs by default.

So yes, only a phrase, but by not having clear transfer rules in place, the process defaults to first cone first served.

The 77W are repossessed. The banks could buy them and auction them for profit, but there is very little time to pay the leasing companies prior to that ship sailing as once they are deregistered, that is that.

Some of the BOM slots are only of value when paired with destination slots (e.g., DXB).

It is important service be established again. Penalizing the airlines that restarted service, helping normalize fares, is a bad precident to set.

Now, I expect a few slits at BOM and DEL to be held for later distribution. We are talking about making up 650 flights/day in lost transportation. So not all can be distributed quickly.

Lightsaber

Late edit:. Slots were temporary until July 15th:

https://simpleflying.com/jet-airways-slots-lost/

Slots must persist as far as airlines are allowed to sell. BOM or other authority must stop sales after July 15th to keep the slots temporary. Otherwise, we enter a confiscation without payment situation.

If sales are allowed after July 15, the slots become permanent.

What is BOM's slot utilization rule? In other words, when are these slots legally no longer Jet's?
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
VTCIE
Posts: 293
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:10 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:55 pm

Viman wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
As noted, the LHR slots were leased. Indian law doesn't apply. Perhaps EY will lease the slots?

Pune slots are already going to first come first serve (Indigo and SpiceJet). BOM slots will find homes quickly. I expect SpiceJet and Indigo to gain the bulk.

DXB slots will be contested. SpiceJet, Air India, and Indigo will fight over the seat allocation (13,000/week now up for grabs mated to some very attractive times at DXB). Because it is India, I expect AI to do well for these.

The BOM slots could have been sold with the AOC back when Jet was viable. Now it is up in the air, with first come first served hard to fight. Possession is 9/10ths of the law...

Lightsaber


Focusing on Lightsaber's comment "The BOM slots could have been sold with the AOC back when Jet was viable. Now it is up in the air, with first come first served hard to fight. Possession is 9/10th of the law..."

Well at least finally someone acknowledges the slots could have been sold (not as an individual asset but as part of a bigger deal). That is all I was saying. When Sahara was sold, the slots went with them. I hear you on the saying possession is 9/10th blah blah. But it is just that a saying. A thief has possession but doesn't own it (I know that is an extreme example). In the end the GOI has been very clear that the slots are temporary. So Jet theoretically still has the BOM slots. Will that change anything - don't think so. But it could. I still think the Banks should auction off the Jet 77W and BOM slots now that Jet has closed. I think the banks have air cover for this.


Jet Airways Pune slots have been assigned permanently to Indigo and Spice Jet as declared by Pune Airport director himself, the same will happen with BOM slots too, the temporary will become permanent.

Naresh Goyal decided to kill Jet Airways rather than lose control and he succeeded in his endeavour, he stepped down at last only after he knew that the airline is dead. Now is the time for Jet Airways fanboys(NRI's and South Bombay Elite) to mourn and let it go. Some of these people will have to travel domestically with Indigo and Spicejet but they will get used to it.

There is really no difference in the service level of 6E/SG and AI/the late 9W on domestic flights. What you pay for beforehand on AI, you buy on board on 6E. Only UK goes above and beyond with its service. Besides, no Indian carrier provides in-seat IFE on short-haul aircraft (9W had the PTVs but they never worked), and this is something where SriLankan Airlines puts us all to shame. (At least UK has, and 9W had, streaming IFE; AI has nothing on its A32x aircraft.)

So 6E is actually an upgrade from 9W, even for South Mumbai and South Delhi people, all things considered; as a plus, you get exactly what you pay for, and you pay less.

P.S. In Europe, easyJet, which has slightly lower service levels than 6E, explicitly targeted business passengers in ads a few years ago, so South Mumbai businessmen are happy flying ULCCs anyway.
Last edited by VTCIE on Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
In grieving remembrance of the thousands of people who lost their lives on ET-AVJ, PK-LQP, XA-UHZ, S2-AGU, CP-2933, SU-GCC, EI-ETJ, D-AIPX, PK-AXC, 9M-MRD, VT-AXV and above all 9M-MRO, besides many more. Your deaths are not in vain. Safety first, always.
 
User avatar
Viman
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:30 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:55 pm

lightsaber wrote:
SpiceJet has announced 6 more 737NG (in addition to the 16 previously announced and ATRs):

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL3N2201D6

Are these ex-Jet aircraft? I assume ex-Jet pilot resumes are flooding in to SpiceJet, Indigo, GoAir, Vistara, and AirAsia India. Jet naturally will be inclined to 737 pilots.

This exceeded the growth I estimated for SpiceJet. I wonder how many more they could induct in 2019?

The sooner flights are started, the sooner fares stabilize. Sadly, the sooner Jet is forgotten.

Does anyone have a chart directing Indian airline RPKs trending with time?

Lightsaber


Jet Airways disappearance impact is already getting reduced by Indigo and Spice Jet, The fare from BOM to NAG (7 days to journey) had shot up from 3000 INR to 5000 INR but Indigo added flights this week and the fare has dropped down to 4000 INR. Indigo is adding another flight in first week of May which will bring back the pricing level to the original figure of 3000 INR.

Spice Jet is adding 22 737 and 5 Q400 (92 seater) within next few days which will further lower the current high prices, Jet Airways will be forgotten within 6 months at the rate Indigo and Spice Jet are adding flights.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 17514
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:08 pm

Correction, authority now has determined Jet can reclaim slots 'in one flying season' or six months:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-jet- ... sinessNews

If Jet restarts, expect a legal fight. As the link notes, what are buyers buying?

Jet was losing money at prior service levels. I would be interested to know how that will turn around.

Aircraft now belong to leasing companies and banks. 5 months of default make that obvious.

However, the return of slots make starting a new airline with Jet's rights attractive. However there is an obvious counter. Buy Jet obligations for pennies and hold the process hostage until paid in full.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
binayak
Posts: 953
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:20 pm

Surprising that how the topic has shifted from what next from 9W to how South Mumbai elites will travel after 9W shutdown.
My answer to the same is : Vistara will start BOM to most tier 1 and 2 cities. See none of us expected them to add BOM flights on jet airways slots but they did. Credit goes to their network planning team. Elites will use their credit card or pay and fly UK in J or Y+ for domestic personal trips. That's it. But yes, we, millenial travellers will be slightly affected as business class redeemptions will go all time low.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
vadodara
Posts: 904
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:06 pm

Antarius wrote:
unrave wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
Technically Indian airlines have rights to fly to London, not LHR specifically, under the bilateral, so someone could apply for STN (and probably get it) or LGW (which is also short of slots).

Is STN easily accessible from London city?


It isn't the best, but it is doable. Not particularly less convenient than LHR or LGW (which isn't saying much).

The issue with STN is you are 100% reliant on O&D traffic. No one is going to schlep from STN to LHR or LGW for a connection.


True that, however lots of people with ethnic Indian ancestry happen to live around Hounslow. Hence LHR for India flights is quiet preferable.

Perhaps the off-peak slots could be used by LCC’s for p2p traffic. Part of the reason LHR slots are in demand is for NA connections. If London is the destination, you don’t have to land during a bank.

Financially no Indian carrier (other than AI) can do nonstops in any case.
 
User avatar
EastLondoner
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:13 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:28 pm

vadodara wrote:
Antarius wrote:
unrave wrote:
Is STN easily accessible from London city?


It isn't the best, but it is doable. Not particularly less convenient than LHR or LGW (which isn't saying much).

The issue with STN is you are 100% reliant on O&D traffic. No one is going to schlep from STN to LHR or LGW for a connection.


True that, however lots of people with ethnic Indian ancestry happen to live around Hounslow. Hence LHR for India flights is quiet preferable.

Perhaps the off-peak slots could be used by LCC’s for p2p traffic. Part of the reason LHR slots are in demand is for NA connections. If London is the destination, you don’t have to land during a bank.

Financially no Indian carrier (other than AI) can do nonstops in any case.


Especially when you have people like British Airways already running the route out of LHR, or in the case with my family we use Emirates as their frequencies and DXB stopover are much more suited to our needs. If there was a flight available from Stansted we'd probably still use Heathrow due to its ease of access, there's many ways there such as the Piccadilly Line, TfL Rail (although that's colloquially known as the TfL Fail) and the Heathrow Exrpess. The road access is also relatively straightforward.
 
YouGeeElWhy
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:42 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:32 pm

binayak wrote:
Surprising that how the topic has shifted from what next from 9W to how South Mumbai elites will travel after 9W shutdown.
My answer to the same is : Vistara will start BOM to most tier 1 and 2 cities. See none of us expected them to add BOM flights on jet airways slots but they did. Credit goes to their network planning team. Elites will use their credit card or pay and fly UK in J or Y+ for domestic personal trips. That's it. But yes, we, millenial travellers will be slightly affected as business class redeemptions will go all time low.
UK is going to be boxed out of BOM once SG and 6E are done raming up. UK is moving too slow.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 17514
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:35 pm

What if Jet revives? I like game theory, so let us postulate. Per this link, bis could be closed as early as 5/10:

https://www.bing.com/amp/s/news.sky.com ... e-11696871

Slots are temporarily allocated 'for the season' or until 10/26/2019.

SpiceJet is putting an additional 27 aircraft into service within 2 weeks, I'll call that by 5/3/2019.

Indigo is working on 21 to 25 A321 by 'end of summer.'

AI looks to be taking the 5 SBI owned 77Ws.

What is the quickest the airline could be flying 20+ aircraft again? How is the prior debt firewalled under Indian law? (It cannot be paid, accept reality). How does one legally downsize staffing ('New Jet' must have lower unit costs)? Hearing how much less Indigo and SpiceJet pay employees, is there a legal means to void union contracts?

I'm trying to come up with a business case to resurrect Jet. Unfortunately, I failed. Every scenario I came up with could be blocked by a competitor buying old Jet debt cheap and suing to delay operation.

Unfortunately, Indian bankruptcy law seems convoluted. Buyers must have clear title to what they purchase. Unfortunately for Jet employees, too many assets were secured and the lender's best interest is served by repossession.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4209
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:55 pm

This saddens me beyond words. I feel deeply for the employees, and hope they find work quickly. Having been through a few airline failures in my days, I know how awful it is. Nothing compares in terms or stress when your airline goes out.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7069
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:04 pm

lightsaber wrote:
What if Jet revives? I like game theory, so let us postulate.

Slots are temporarily allocated 'for the season' or until 10/26/2019.

AI looks to be taking the 5 SBI owned 77Ws.

What is the quickest the airline could be flying 20+ aircraft again? How is the prior debt firewalled under Indian law?

Lightsaber


FYI, Citibank owns those 77Ws, SBI Capital Management is the driving 9W to ground, so it is involved.

For 9W revival to become difficult two things should happen.
1) Its 22 code-share partners switch to AI.
2) UK builds up its Mumbai network from current 3 to 30, and 9W code-share partners switch to UK.

Like I said in the past, AI is tainted goods, no one will sign a broad code-share agreement with AI.
I don't see anyone going with SG or 6E.

For its revival, 9W needs
5x77Ws (2xBOM-LHR, BOM-AMS, BOM-CDG, one Standby)
15x Narrowbodies
5 x Turboprops

Truly a Mumbai hub airline, no DEL, no BLR, no AUH.

If Etihad refuses to give LHR slots, DL/VS could help.
 
vadodara
Posts: 904
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:30 pm

EastLondoner wrote:
Especially when you have people like British Airways already running the route out of LHR, or in the case with my family we use Emirates as their frequencies and DXB stopover are much more suited to our needs. If there was a flight available from Stansted we'd probably still use Heathrow due to its ease of access, there's many ways there such as the Piccadilly Line, TfL Rail (although that's colloquially known as the TfL Fail) and the Heathrow Exrpess. The road access is also relatively straightforward.


Well this will go past the JetAirways fan club (they also hold dual membership to the BOM hub club).

To extend what you just stated, add people from Manchester, Birmingham and other cities which are mostly connected to likes of DXB and DOH. From there one could fly to myriad of Indian cities.

Now why would anyone beholden to Jet Airways?
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1026
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:37 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Correction, authority now has determined Jet can reclaim slots 'in one flying season' or six months:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-jet- ... sinessNews

If Jet restarts, expect a legal fight. As the link notes, what are buyers buying?

Jet was losing money at prior service levels. I would be interested to know how that will turn around.

Aircraft now belong to leasing companies and banks. 5 months of default make that obvious.

However, the return of slots make starting a new airline with Jet's rights attractive. However there is an obvious counter. Buy Jet obligations for pennies and hold the process hostage until paid in full.

Lightsaber


Lightsaber - you keep saying expect a legal fight. And you seem to agree with this. Why? The airlines rushing in know exactly what they are getting - temp slots. Shouldn’t rule of law matter over what the mob wants? Btw I think the deadline moving from July 15 to Oct actually buys Jet more time. I am in no way saying Jet comes back. The only way it can is if there is a way for indian bankruptcy laws to unwind the debt from the assets. Maybe if the majority of the debt holders agree to a sale, they can sell the 77ws and Bom slots. Then they distribute the proceeds to debt holders in some formula.
 
Jetty
Posts: 863
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:21 pm

SoCalFlyer wrote:
Will Jetblue be able to acquire their AMS, and LHR slots? I know they’re looking and none were available, but now there’s going to be quite a few at AMS at least becoming available. Also how many slots did they have at LHR?

AMS slots can’t be traded. They’ll go back to the pool with 50% going to new entrants and 50% to existing users.
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2254
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:42 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:

Lightsaber - you keep saying expect a legal fight. And you seem to agree with this. Why? The airlines rushing in know exactly what they are getting - temp slots. Shouldn’t rule of law matter over what the mob wants? Btw I think the deadline moving from July 15 to Oct actually buys Jet more time. I am in no way saying Jet comes back. The only way it can is if there is a way for indian bankruptcy laws to unwind the debt from the assets. Maybe if the majority of the debt holders agree to a sale, they can sell the 77ws and Bom slots. Then they distribute the proceeds to debt holders in some formula.


That is not how collateralized loans such as the 77Ws are structured.

Any monies from the 77Ws will go to the lienholders first, then any remaining proceeds (unlikely there is any) would go to any loan givers that holds a second position on that asset. Nothing available for general debtors. Right now, Citibank and the Exim bank seem to be exercising their rights in this regard and forcing the sale/repossession of at least 5 planes.

The BOM slots are not purchasable without buying the Jet stock, which would also mean acquiring the debt as well, which is much more than the slots and net assets are worth.

Jet is dead. There will be no revival.
 
SoCalFlyer
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:16 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:11 pm

Jetty wrote:
SoCalFlyer wrote:
Will Jetblue be able to acquire their AMS, and LHR slots? I know they’re looking and none were available, but now there’s going to be quite a few at AMS at least becoming available. Also how many slots did they have at LHR?

AMS slots can’t be traded. They’ll go back to the pool with 50% going to new entrants and 50% to existing users.



Do you or anyone know how many slots JetAirways had at AMS? Didn’t they have a pretty substantial operation there?
 
User avatar
CPS001
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:05 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:14 pm

SoCalFlyer wrote:
Jetty wrote:
SoCalFlyer wrote:
Will Jetblue be able to acquire their AMS, and LHR slots? I know they’re looking and none were available, but now there’s going to be quite a few at AMS at least becoming available. Also how many slots did they have at LHR?

AMS slots can’t be traded. They’ll go back to the pool with 50% going to new entrants and 50% to existing users.



Do you or anyone know how many slots JetAirways had at AMS? Didn’t they have a pretty substantial operation there?
4 pairs. They operated 1x daily each to BOM, DEL, BLR and YYZ.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 17514
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:17 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Correction, authority now has determined Jet can reclaim slots 'in one flying season' or six months:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-jet- ... sinessNews

If Jet restarts, expect a legal fight. As the link notes, what are buyers buying?

Jet was losing money at prior service levels. I would be interested to know how that will turn around.

Aircraft now belong to leasing companies and banks. 5 months of default make that obvious.

However, the return of slots make starting a new airline with Jet's rights attractive. However there is an obvious counter. Buy Jet obligations for pennies and hold the process hostage until paid in full.

Lightsaber


Lightsaber - you keep saying expect a legal fight. And you seem to agree with this. Why? The airlines rushing in know exactly what they are getting - temp slots. Shouldn’t rule of law matter over what the mob wants? Btw I think the deadline moving from July 15 to Oct actually buys Jet more time.

I agree with rule if law. Please show me what law forces the return of slots after Jet shuts down. The transfer was structured to return early, that isn't happening.

Indian bankruptcy law is too complex. That means the process will be stalled and thus no Jet revival is likely.

Do not mistake what I predict with what I want. I surpressed what I want to see what is likely.

The only way the slots can be reclaimed is by Jet per the agreement. So rule of law is knowing how to anticipate risk, in this case having to return slots. The rules are specific, the temporary slot holder keeps the slot until at least October 26th. If Jet restarts, Jet then may claim the slot otherwise the temporary holder keeps the slot.

Since I believe the slot holders can use the ambiguity of Indian bankruptcy law to prevent the restart of Jet, I consider it low risk. I also consider the process so rushed that the temporary operators agreed in writing to let their time using the slot holders count towards the slot for Jet. Thus creating legal ambiguity.

This isn't mob rule, it is big business. In big business it is who structures the deal to ensure they win the legal battle.

You assume airlines signed away their rights. I don't. I assume SpiceJet and Indigo have competent lawyers and are playing to win. If I were an executive at an Indian airline, it would be how I work through the imperfect legal system. I would prefer a clear legal code.

India's bankruptcy process is, in my opinion, mob rule instead of law. Jet should have been sold in October with investors getting zero. Instead, we are here.

I am for a restart to business. Temporary air lift is expensive. Unless airlines are compensated to give up slots, let us not pretend they won't work to their advantage.

If I can figure out how to keep the slots, a good lawyer will be more clever.

Bidders will be looking at the rapid expansion of SpiceJet and Indigo. The new Jet won't restart in today's 30% to 40% inflated airfare market, it will be after fares normalize 20% lower.

How would you get a restarted Jet's costs low enough? They failed to gain a revenue premium before and now all of their premium customers have been forced to try alternatives.

What aircraft will they fly? Jet was so deep in debt, everything was in hock! (Security for a loan).

The airlines rushing in know exactly what they are doing. They are filling a hole in the market. They will secure their position by contracts to ensure if they lose a slot, it cannot be used profitably.

It isn't being ok, it is playing to win. For some reason my friends no longer will play poker with me... :cry2:
I'm a nice guy, but no one gets a free ride in business, cards, board games (but I set up rules so my kids win, e.g., in Monopoly all trades a child proposes the adult must accept, e.g. trade Boardwalk for a utility..), racket ball, rowing, etc. Play to win or go home. Life isn't fair. Believe me, as a divorced man in California, I know legal systems can be screwey.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
acavpics
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:54 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:16 am

Viman wrote:
acavpics wrote:
How empty have BOM's terminal 2 and DEL T3 become at this point? - I'm guessing that they are pretty much ghost towns during the daytime domestic rush hours now.


Nope, you are mistaken, I was flying from BOM Terminal 2 just two days back and it was as full as ever with passengers. Apart from Air India and Vistara, Indigo has also started operations from BOM Terminal 2 as they are getting Jet Airways slots, expect Spicejet to also increase flights from these terminals once they induct 22 737 and 6 Q400 within ten days from now.


So do these new flights from T2 include domestic routes, or is CSIA still consolidating 6E and SG's domestic ops to T1?
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 17514
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:19 am

Apparently Jet pledged little in assets for the loans. It looks like the banks loose everything unless an investor steps forward, excluding residual value on a few assets:

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/wh ... ar-BBW3Ez0

Something needs to be done to stop political loans.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1341
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:44 am

Back after a 3 day ban.

Reports indicate that that bidders have asked the banks to take a 80% haircut on debts which now totals 8,500 net debt on the books PLUS an additional 3,500 crore of debt to lessors, vendors, etc. Banks are caught between a rock and hard place. If they write off 80%, the media, CBI, opposition politicians, etc., will say crony capitalism and that too favoring foreigners; if the banks don't play ball, they may lose everything. I would bet on the latter.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1341
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:26 am

Give jet's situation, why is the stock still Rs 160? It just doesn't make any sense. Shouldn't it be trading in the Re1 to Rs10 range?
 
User avatar
Viman
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:30 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:00 am

acavpics wrote:
Viman wrote:
acavpics wrote:
How empty have BOM's terminal 2 and DEL T3 become at this point? - I'm guessing that they are pretty much ghost towns during the daytime domestic rush hours now.


Nope, you are mistaken, I was flying from BOM Terminal 2 just two days back and it was as full as ever with passengers. Apart from Air India and Vistara, Indigo has also started operations from BOM Terminal 2 as they are getting Jet Airways slots, expect Spicejet to also increase flights from these terminals once they induct 22 737 and 6 Q400 within ten days from now.


So do these new flights from T2 include domestic routes, or is CSIA still consolidating 6E and SG's domestic ops to T1?


The following article contains the list of recently added Indigo flights at BOM T2: https://www.timesnownews.com/business-e ... ist/398629
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2555
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:49 am

One more nail to the coffin: IATA suspends Jet Airways from its clearing house system
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2080
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:53 am

edealinfo wrote:
Give jet's situation, why is the stock still Rs 160? It just doesn't make any sense. Shouldn't it be trading in the Re1 to Rs10 range?

Market isn't in any hurry. It will wait till all the bids are made public and it's made clear what's going to happen to Jet Airways finally.

The stock has already decreased 80% from 800+ 1 year ago to 160 now
 
JOYA380B747
Posts: 768
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:31 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:21 am

Why are we focusing most on the South Delhi and S. Mumbai 'elites'?
Is it because DEL/BOM got the majority 9W flights?x
What about the South 'Other' elites that lose an FSC out of their 'puny & insignificant towns' some of whom probably flew more often per month than S.DEL/BOM elites?
India's biggest loss w.r.t global aviation (so far) - Being an Australasia-Europe stopover.
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2555
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:32 am

JOYA380B747 wrote:
Why are we focusing most on the South Delhi and S. Mumbai 'elites'?

Because they usually have an outsized feeling of importance about themselves.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
VTCIE
Posts: 293
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:10 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:48 am

unrave wrote:
JOYA380B747 wrote:
Why are we focusing most on the South Delhi and S. Mumbai 'elites'?

Because they usually have an outsized feeling of importance about themselves.

I will add to what I said above. South Delhi and South Mumbai businessmen value time more than anything. If 6E has flights as per their preferred timing, they will happily take them. Never mind the service. As I have said, 9W’s on-board service was not much better than 6E’s, and nor is AI’s, for that matter. Only UK outshines them, despite not having seatback IFE.

If you want business class on BOM-DEL, UK is there for you, but only with very limited seats; the bulk of the DEL-BOM and BOM-BLR business traffic (I am not considring VFR/tourism traffic) has been captured by 6E (and SG and G8), and for good reason.

TL;DR: Timings are much more imprtant than the FSC/LCC difference for business travellers.

VTCIE wrote:
Viman wrote:
Jet Airways Pune slots have been assigned permanently to Indigo and Spice Jet as declared by Pune Airport director himself, the same will happen with BOM slots too, the temporary will become permanent.

Naresh Goyal decided to kill Jet Airways rather than lose control and he succeeded in his endeavour, he stepped down at last only after he knew that the airline is dead. Now is the time for Jet Airways fanboys(NRI's and South Bombay Elite) to mourn and let it go. Some of these people will have to travel domestically with Indigo and Spicejet but they will get used to it.

There is really no difference in the service level of 6E/SG and AI/the late 9W on domestic flights. What you pay for beforehand on AI, you buy on board on 6E. Only UK goes above and beyond with its service. Besides, no Indian carrier provides in-seat IFE on short-haul aircraft (9W had the PTVs but they never worked), and this is something where SriLankan Airlines puts us all to shame. (At least UK has, and 9W had, streaming IFE; AI has nothing on its A32x aircraft.)

So 6E is actually an upgrade from 9W, even for South Mumbai and South Delhi people, all things considered; as a plus, you get exactly what you pay for, and you pay less.

P.S. In Europe, easyJet, which has somewhat lower service than 6E, explicitly targeted business passengers a few years ago, so South Mumbai businessmen are happy flying ULCCs anyway.
In grieving remembrance of the thousands of people who lost their lives on ET-AVJ, PK-LQP, XA-UHZ, S2-AGU, CP-2933, SU-GCC, EI-ETJ, D-AIPX, PK-AXC, 9M-MRD, VT-AXV and above all 9M-MRO, besides many more. Your deaths are not in vain. Safety first, always.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7069
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:24 am

The 9W 77W fleet has an average age is 11.6 years. Assuming they were on a 12-year payment plan, SBI Caps should be able to recover FMV to payoff Citibank, secondary collaterals and still make money.

But with their intelligence exhibited so far, they will lose all frames to Citibank in repo, still left with collateral payments due.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1341
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:52 pm

Why is it that after innumerable posts about deregistrations, not a single person can indicate the current size of the Jet fleet after subtracting the planes deregistered, and those filed to be deregistered. Why is this so hard to get. I have not seen a single report in the media about what this NET number actually is. how come the media have not worked their sources to get this basic information?
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2555
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:54 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Why is it that after innumerable posts about deregistrations, not a single person can indicate the current size of the Jet fleet after subtracting the planes deregistered, and those filed to be deregistered. Why is this so hard to get. I have not seen a single report in the media about what this NET number actually is. how come the media have not worked their sources to get this basic information?

Why would media care about that?
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1341
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:02 pm

Times of India is carrying a story that there was a conspiracy to remove Naresh Goyal and being the airline down —- the newspaper is covering the story from the union leader’s perspective. It is funny how the article praises Naresh Goyal and places the blame solely on the the lenders and the government. you have to give Naresh Goyal credit for twisting a terribly bad situation to make him look like he was the real hero. Shame on the Times for carrying such a story
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1341
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:06 pm

unrave wrote:

Why would media care about that?

Because it tells you how many aircraft, the potentially new owners would be getting as part of their bid. Or do you expect them to bid not knowing what they are bidding on?
 
vadodara
Posts: 904
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:12 pm

VTCIE wrote:
I will add to what I said above. South Delhi and South Mumbai businessmen value time more than anything. If 6E has flights as per their preferred timing, they will happily take them. Never mind the service. As I have said, 9W’s on-board service was not much better than 6E’s, and nor is AI’s, for that matter. Only UK outshines them, despite not having seatback

]


Evidently in 9W’s case there were not enough DEL/BOM elites to fill the Class F seats. Were it not for politically influenced loans, those 777’s may not even have materialized.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1341
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:20 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Times of India is carrying a story that there was a conspiracy to remove Naresh Goyal and being the airline down —- the newspaper is covering the story from the union leader’s perspective. It is funny how the article praises Naresh Goyal and places the blame solely on the the lenders and the government. you have to give Naresh Goyal credit for twisting a terribly bad situation to make him look like he was the real hero. Shame on the Times for carrying such a story

Oh, I forgot to mention that the story also calls for a CBI probe into why Naresh Goyal was removed as Chairman of Jet.

I read this article within the Times of India app. And therefore can’t post the link but if you go the the Times web site you should se it.

MEANWHILE, the Economic Times is reporting that the head of the Indian Banks association has written to Modi, on behalf of the association, that if there is no bidder for Jet, the Air India should take over Jet.

You gotta love INdian democracy at work. Sadly, for businesses this means chaos rules. With all this “hungama” going on, would you still want to invest in Jet? too much baggage and politics in my opinion.
Last edited by edealinfo on Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2555
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:22 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Because it tells you how many aircraft, the potentially new owners would be getting as part of their bid. Or do you expect them to bid not knowing what they are bidding on?

Does the media report every time an aircraft is delivered or returned?
There are firms that specialise in due diligence for investments/acquisitions. They don't depend on media reports for that.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1472
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:32 pm

lightsaber wrote:
winginit wrote:
To bring things back on topic, what happens to Jet's 77Ws? With an average age of 11 years they aren't spring chickens but curious as to where they might end up. Apologies if that was already brought up in the previous thread.

A fair question. So far used 77Ws haven't had much trouble finding a home. However, I believe this is enough additional 77Ws to suddenly hit the market, combined with A350 and 787 production, that the used pricing of 77Ws just took a hit.

In my opinion, these will find a 2nd Life as in passenger duty. However, the need for a 77W/L P2F just became punctuated. But we quickly go off topic there.

I hope individuals post where Jet aircraft find a home here. If someone puts together a summary, I would appreciate it.

E.g., I know how many 738s SpiceJet is allocated, but not if all are ex-Jet. I assume all 16, but is that the case?

I am also interested in where Jet employees end up. How many pilots to SpiceJet, Indigo, Emirates, etc. Will there be enough information to follow technicians, FA, and ground staff?

Lightsaber

They only had 10 777-300s not enough to bring the prices down

https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Jet ... d-b777.htm

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos