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VTORD
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:22 pm

unrave wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

Only 13 of their MAXes were grounded. They are getting far more aircraft in a very short period. Don't expect those additional planes will be grounded. They will have pilots, staff, etc., etc., etc., that you earlier said would be difficult to get at short notice. They did what naysayers like you said that they can't . That's the reason that in the last month their stock wen't up like 60% to 80%. That's the price the market is willing to bet against the naysayers. Business Principle #1: The early bird catches the worm. Business Principle #2: Rewards are proportionate to risks.


I am really interested in knowing how old you are.


+1 :bigthumbsup:

edealinfo wrote:
I guess the Air India CEO isn't informed, as we are, that Jet already lost its London slots to Etihad and Virgin. Shame on the Air India Chairman for not knowing this critical information.


My understanding is that there is atleast 1 Mumbai slot that AI has and is not using. This was discussed in the previous Indian Av thread in context of incidentally Jet complaining that they wanted to purchase it. I recall this vaguely. At the LHR end, I am assuming since their BLR flight is 3 x weekly, they could use that slot for other days. But I may be way off mark here.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:29 pm

SQ789 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Jet lost a hundred pilots to SpiceJet.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 1.html/amp

I read somewhere else over 400 pilots have left Jet. Sorry I forgot to grab the link.

What is being bid on? This certainly seems like a pig in a poke. For modern business communication is key.

Lightsaber

And how many planes needed from this troubled airline into Spicejet after hiring employees from that troubled airline?

We know they are taking 22 738 and 5 ATR quickly, plus 2 more ATR later in the summer. Sometime this year the MAX will fly again.

100 pilots is enough for only 7+ aircraft. They would have some slack from the MAX grounding. However, I see a need for SpiceJet to hire 100 to 200 more pilots before the MAXes fly again. Judging from their press releases, they are trying to (preference in hiring to Jet employees...). The MAXes will need another 300 to 400 pilots in 2019 for SpiceJet.

So doing the math, 1700 Jet pilots at the peak (1600 at failure).
400 already have new jobs.
SpiceJet needs 500 to 600 more 737 pilots in 2019.
Indigo needs 400 to 600 more pilots just by end of summer. Another 100+ in fall/winter.
EK needs pilots, probably 100+.

Then Vistara and AirAsia (India) also need 100+ pilots (more?).

I have my assumptions on Indian cadet programs and rate they can promote to Captain. With those assumptions, India will be back to a pilot shortage in the late fall. Personally, the year notice rule must be abandoned, it is brutally unfair. I can see 3 months of notice, a la doctors. But 12 months? :no:

Leasing companies and banks are scrambling to place Jet's aircraft. While many will leave India, it looks like we are on track to have at least 32 remain.

I'm more worried about a global aircraft surplus than shortage.
787 at 168 per year.
A350 at 105+ per year
777 temporarily down, but I am a fan of the 779
A330 production will remain low.

A320 production growing to ~700/year (I refuse to quote monthly as total <12*monthly)

737 production also growing (paused, but it shall grow). 630+ per year.

A220 factory progressing for a significant line bump by 2020. We'll see 100+ per year.

Embraer can produce far more E2.

China will force C919 adoption.

Russia will mandate MC-21 adoption.

This makes for a tougher resale market for prior generation aircraft. Oh wait, this always happens; it has just been longer than typical, so people have forgotten.

So I do not worry about Jet's competitors finding aircraft.

Lightsaber
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:34 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Additional developments:

1. "Ministry of Finance has decided to waive a mandatory customs requirement, which needs Jet Airways' grounded planes in India to be first be sent to the country of registration of their lessors and then fly them back to India before they can be used by other carriers."

2. Air India Chairman met with SBI Chairman to discuss leasing 5 777W's . Air India Express may also take some 737s. In all, AI may take 10 to 12 of Jet's planes in the future. The 77Ws are intended to be operated on the following routes using "Jet's slots": Mumbai-London-Mumbai, Delhi-London-Delhi, Mumbai-Dubai-Mumbai, Delhi-Dubai-Delhi, Delhi-Singapore-Delhi" [I guess the Air India CEO isn't informed, as we are, that Jet already lost its London slots to Etihad and Virgin]. Shame on the Air India Chairman for not knowing this critical information.


https://www.businesstoday.in/current/co ... 38860.html

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 72015.html

Either EY is willing to lease slots to AI or something is off. Why does everyone seem to treat what Jet leased as theirs? Cest la vie.

Personally, I think some is grandstanding to get PR. Nothing wrong with that...

The customs rule is interesting... Silly, but interesting.

Lightsaber
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VTORD
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:49 pm

dcajet wrote:
Thanks! I moved to SF from DC back in 2014 and did not recall seeing Jet Airways ever at SFO.
The BOM-PVG-SFO route seems (on paper) like it would be a sure winner. What happened to it that is was so short lived?

The global meltdown + crude hit 140. My room mate at college had used that flight I recall when he came. I remember gas being around $4.20 around that time in MN. God only knows what it was in CA.
 
dcajet
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:54 pm

VTORD wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Thanks! I moved to SF from DC back in 2014 and did not recall seeing Jet Airways ever at SFO.
The BOM-PVG-SFO route seems (on paper) like it would be a sure winner. What happened to it that is was so short lived?

The global meltdown + crude hit 140. My room mate at college had used that flight I recall when he came. I remember gas being around $4.20 around that time in MN. God only knows what it was in CA.


$4.64 in the LA area. 11 years later, that is what you pay for a gallon in SF downtown; in suburbia it's around $4/gallon.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:03 pm

If SpiceJet truly wants to attract more 9W cabin crew, they will have to consider changing their cheap tacky uniform.
I doubt if many 9W cabin crew would be comfortable from wearing a classy looking full yellow coat and pant to a small one-piece cheap looking dress.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:07 pm

dcajet wrote:
CPS001 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
When did Jet Airways fly to SFO? Which was the route it operated?
BOM-PVG-SFO between June 2008 and Jan 2009.

FWIW, Etihad operated it's AUH-SFO service in 2014 with B77W leased from Jet.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Thanks! I moved to SF from DC back in 2014 and did not recall seeing Jet Airways ever at SFO.

The BOM-PVG-SFO route seems (on paper) like it would be a sure winner. What happened to it that is was so short lived?

To screw Jet, China gave terrible time slots to Jet ensuring that no one would fly individual legs..,, neither BOM to PVG not PVG -SFO could attract travelers who needed to get off at PVG. China used this trick to ensure that Jet could never compete against its own carriers.
 
binayak
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:13 pm

edealinfo wrote:
dcajet wrote:
CPS001 wrote:
BOM-PVG-SFO between June 2008 and Jan 2009.

FWIW, Etihad operated it's AUH-SFO service in 2014 with B77W leased from Jet.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


Thanks! I moved to SF from DC back in 2014 and did not recall seeing Jet Airways ever at SFO.

The BOM-PVG-SFO route seems (on paper) like it would be a sure winner. What happened to it that is was so short lived?

To screw Jet, China gave terrible time slots to Jet ensuring that no one would fly individual legs..,, neither BOM to PVG not PVG -SFO could attract travelers who needed to get off at PVG. China used this trick to ensure that Jet could never compete against its own carriers.


Add to that 9W wasn't in any form of alliance that time .
This route though short lived has been quite memorable for me . It was my first experience in 9W B77W J and my first int'l J class experience . Unforgettable !
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:16 pm

avier wrote:
If SpiceJet truly wants to attract more 9W cabin crew, they will have to consider changing their cheap tacky uniform.
I doubt if many 9W cabin crew would be comfortable from wearing a classy looking full yellow coat and pant to a small one-piece cheap looking dress.

Is that cabin crew's top priority today? At this time, SpiceJet should have more cabin crew applications than positions. Where do you think the crew are applying?

I agree in nice uniforms help morale and attract candidates, but as cabin crew have a short training time versus pilots or mechanics, be careful what is demanded.

Lightsaber
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edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:16 pm

avier wrote:
If SpiceJet truly wants to attract more 9W cabin crew, they will have to consider changing their cheap tacky uniform.
I doubt if many 9W cabin crew would be comfortable from wearing a classy looking full yellow coat and pant to a small one-piece cheap looking dress.

This is the most ridiculous argument. Do you really think that someone would decide to remain unemployed with Jet than be employed at SpriceJet because of its uniform????

Separately a gaudy yellow uniform ain’t that elegant. Heck, that bright yellow requires sunglasses.
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:25 pm

edealinfo wrote:
avier wrote:
If SpiceJet truly wants to attract more 9W cabin crew, they will have to consider changing their cheap tacky uniform.
I doubt if many 9W cabin crew would be comfortable from wearing a classy looking full yellow coat and pant to a small one-piece cheap looking dress.

This is the most ridiculous argument. Do you really think that someone would decide to remain unemployed with Jet than be employed at SpriceJet because of its uniform????



There are other airlines than SpiceJet, that they can join too. But for SG to make the most of it, they should rethink their crew look. And don't assume every woman is comfortable wearing whatever to work, especially senior crew members.

I'll see how comfy you'd be if forced to wear a one piece mini black dress for sake of employment.

Also, if you're aware ( which I certainly don't expect you to be school kid) , many airlines around the world give an option to their crew between short dresses and pants, heck even Virgin Atlantic tweaked those rules recently to make that possible.
 
Antarius
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:29 pm

dcajet wrote:
The BOM-PVG-SFO route seems (on paper) like it would be a sure winner. What happened to it that is was so short lived?


Why do you say that?

Theres very little traffic between India and China relative to the country sizes - AI and MU fly DEL-PVG, but that isnt even daily. There is no flight between BOM and PVG at all. For O&D traffic, there are 3 daily flights between PVG and SFO on UA and MU - higher yield traffic O&D has a propensity to stick with their alliance or airline, so the only way this would make money is BOM-SFO traffic (or connections to smaller cities on either end).

Even if the flight times were better, I'm not convinced this would work. If you need to go from BOM to SFO and have to connect, CX is a vastly superior option, for example.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:52 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Here is an Interview with Jayant Sinha, the Minister of State of Finance, on Jet's collapse. He is so polished and explained the Government's position very well. This is the kind of minister that one should be proud - educated, articulated, clarity in thought, logical, and non-biased. When politicians are generally thought of as goons, he is quite the opposite -- a shining spark.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 965463.cms


Agreed. I found the question where she asks him why the banks said they would infuse money and then didn’t - what changed - to be interesting. He didn’t answer that. The banks should absolutely do what is in their commercial interest but why announce and then pull back. The minister should know what happened. Where I blame the minister is that this full process has been a circus. He says “this is the way markets should work” He is right on when to bail out. He is totally wrong that allowing this circus was the right thing. I am 100% sure the business community isn’t saying good job india you handled the Jet closure well.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:03 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Here is an Interview with Jayant Sinha, the Minister of State of Finance, on Jet's collapse. He is so polished and explained the Government's position very well. This is the kind of minister that one should be proud - educated, articulated, clarity in thought, logical, and non-biased. When politicians are generally thought of as goons, he is quite the opposite -- a shining spark.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 965463.cms


Agreed. I found the question where she asks him why the banks said they would infuse money and then didn’t - what changed - to be interesting. He didn’t answer that. The banks should absolutely do what is in their commercial interest but why announce and then pull back. The minister should know what happened. Where I blame the minister is that this full process has been a circus. He says “this is the way markets should work” He is right on when to bail out. He is totally wrong that allowing this circus was the right thing. I am 100% sure the business community isn’t saying good job india you handled the Jet closure well.

Banks never publically announced that they will release money. The official stance was "all options are on table". Unidentified anonymous sources said money will be released.

Spicejet also allows uniforms like this, which should be comfortable for anyone:

Image

Btw guy's these discussions belong to India Aviation Thread not here
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:07 pm

avier wrote:
If SpiceJet truly wants to attract more 9W cabin crew, they will have to consider changing their cheap tacky uniform.
I doubt if many 9W cabin crew would be comfortable from wearing a classy looking full yellow coat and pant to a small one-piece cheap looking dress.

Beggars don't get to be choosers.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:09 pm

avier wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
avier wrote:
If SpiceJet truly wants to attract more 9W cabin crew, they will have to consider changing their cheap tacky uniform.
I doubt if many 9W cabin crew would be comfortable from wearing a classy looking full yellow coat and pant to a small one-piece cheap looking dress.

This is the most ridiculous argument. Do you really think that someone would decide to remain unemployed with Jet than be employed at SpriceJet because of its uniform????



There are other airlines than SpiceJet, that they can join too. But for SG to make the most of it, they should rethink their crew look. And don't assume every woman is comfortable wearing whatever to work, especially senior crew members.

I'll see how comfy you'd be if forced to wear a one piece mini black dress for sake of employment.

Also, if you're aware ( which I certainly don't expect you to be school kid) , many airlines around the world give an option to their crew between short dresses and pants, heck even Virgin Atlantic tweaked those rules recently to make that possible.

Did SpiceJet change uniforms since 2017?

Also AI announced they were hiring 150 Jet FA. If someone doesn't like the uniform, obviously they won't apply. I have daughters. I prefer classy uniforms. However, I certainly know enough women who only want to work as part of a group known as attractive. That said, there should be a leggings option of some sort.

What is the Indian law?

Lightsaber
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Andy33
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:11 pm

VTORD wrote:
! recall this vaguely. At the LHR end, I am assuming since their BLR flight is 3 x weekly, they could use that slot for other days. But I may be way off mark here.

LHR slots are for specific times and specific days of the week. If an airline has a seven day a week slot pair and only uses it on three days of the week it will very shortly be confiscated altogether and returned to the pool for re-allocation, without any compensation. This is the 80/20 rule referred to throughout the thread in different posts, Unless slots in the United Kingdom are used on 80% of all the dates for which they are valid, they are forfeited.
 
Jetty
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:12 pm

lightsaber wrote:
.SpiceJet vis also quickly hiring. Prior links show 500 ex-Jet employees plus some other quantity. I see them bringing in NGs

People like Narash Goyal will ruin any company, I can’t imagine SpiceJet is looking hiring someone like that.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:15 pm

unrave wrote:
avier wrote:
If SpiceJet truly wants to attract more 9W cabin crew, they will have to consider changing their cheap tacky uniform.
I doubt if many 9W cabin crew would be comfortable from wearing a classy looking full yellow coat and pant to a small one-piece cheap looking dress.

Beggars don't get to be choosers.

Sorry but that's outright rude and derogatory way to talk about highly committed and hard working employees. You should apologize for this.

Jetty wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
.SpiceJet vis also quickly hiring. Prior links show 500 ex-Jet employees plus some other quantity. I see them bringing in NGs

People like Narash Goyal will ruin any company, I can’t imagine SpiceJet is looking hiring someone like that.
He meant B737NG :)


lightsaber wrote:
Did SpiceJet change uniforms since 2017?

Also AI announced they were hiring 150 Jet FA. If someone doesn't like the uniform, obviously they won't apply. I have daughters. I prefer classy uniforms. However, I certainly know enough women who only want to work as part of a group known as attractive. That said, there should be a leggings option of some sort.

What is the Indian law?

Lightsaber


There's literally no need of a law. FA's are free to choose between one piece dresses or overcoat and skirt and optionally leggings. 6E and AirAsia India also have similar uniforms

Obviously there are basic fundamental freedom rights and no one can force anyone to wear anything.
 
Antarius
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:27 pm

Jetty wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
.SpiceJet vis also quickly hiring. Prior links show 500 ex-Jet employees plus some other quantity. I see them bringing in NGs

People like Narash Goyal will ruin any company, I can’t imagine SpiceJet is looking hiring someone like that.


NG = 737NG family. Not Naresh Goyal :biggrin:
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:29 pm

anshabhi wrote:
unrave wrote:
avier wrote:
If SpiceJet truly wants to attract more 9W cabin crew, they will have to consider changing their cheap tacky uniform.
I doubt if many 9W cabin crew would be comfortable from wearing a classy looking full yellow coat and pant to a small one-piece cheap looking dress.

Beggars don't get to be choosers.

Sorry but that's outright rude and derogatory way to talk about highly committed and hard working employees. You should apologize for this.

Jetty wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
.SpiceJet vis also quickly hiring. Prior links show 500 ex-Jet employees plus some other quantity. I see them bringing in NGs

People like Narash Goyal will ruin any company, I can’t imagine SpiceJet is looking hiring someone like that.
He meant B737NG :)


lightsaber wrote:
Did SpiceJet change uniforms since 2017?

Also AI announced they were hiring 150 Jet FA. If someone doesn't like the uniform, obviously they won't apply. I have daughters. I prefer classy uniforms. However, I certainly know enough women who only want to work as part of a group known as attractive. That said, there should be a leggings option of some sort.

What is the Indian law?

Lightsaber


There's literally no need of a law. FA's are free to choose between one piece dresses or overcoat and skirt and optionally leggings. 6E and AirAsia India also have similar uniforms

Obviously there are basic fundamental freedom rights and no one can force anyone to wear anything.

Ahhh... My bad. When I found articles on SpiceJet's new uniforms, for some reason I only noticed the selection of short dresses. My bad.

Lightsaber
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Antarius
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:31 pm

anshabhi wrote:
unrave wrote:
Beggars don't get to be choosers.

Sorry but that's outright rude and derogatory way to talk about highly committed and hard working employees. You should apologize for this.


It is a commonly used saying... not that they are literally begging. :roll:

And the point is valid. 9W employees have little leverage. The choices are either leave the industry, wait, leave the country and accept the company policies there or join SG, 6E, AI and assimilate there.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:01 pm

Other than BOM and DEL, slots are hard to come by at Pune.

Well new flights have been operationalized - 1 by Air Asia, 1 by Indigo and 2 by SpiceJet [good to see Air Asia finally moving its butt, albeit slowly)

https://www.hindustantimes.com/pune-new ... 3Jf5L.html
 
binayak
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:34 pm

Once again topic shifted , this time from what next for jet to whether the crew will be comfortable working at 6E/SG ! To make the same clear:
The ones joining those airlines are mostly <3yrs experienced and might not have even completed their graduation till now so their choice is limited .
Senior crew have wider range of options as most have a degree in Hospitality Management / Fashion Designing / Business Management and thus can join industries other than aviation . There are various industries where experience as an FA adds good points to your resume .

PS : Please stop taunting edealinfo for his age . He's just a young , curious avgeek .
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:19 pm

lightsaber wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
unrave wrote:
Beggars don't get to be choosers.

Sorry but that's outright rude and derogatory way to talk about highly committed and hard working employees. You should apologize for this.

Jetty wrote:
People like Narash Goyal will ruin any company, I can’t imagine SpiceJet is looking hiring someone like that.
He meant B737NG :)


lightsaber wrote:
Did SpiceJet change uniforms since 2017?

Also AI announced they were hiring 150 Jet FA. If someone doesn't like the uniform, obviously they won't apply. I have daughters. I prefer classy uniforms. However, I certainly know enough women who only want to work as part of a group known as attractive. That said, there should be a leggings option of some sort.

What is the Indian law?

Lightsaber


There's literally no need of a law. FA's are free to choose between one piece dresses or overcoat and skirt and optionally leggings. 6E and AirAsia India also have similar uniforms

Obviously there are basic fundamental freedom rights and no one can force anyone to wear anything.

Ahhh... My bad. When I found articles on SpiceJet's new uniforms, for some reason I only noticed the selection of short dresses. My bad.

Lightsaber


You're right , SG cabin crew only have a choice of short dresses. Their ground staff however get a choice for pants.
Vistara and AI would be apt for ex-9W senior cabin crew members. Also remember, this is India, many crew walk out of conservative homes and would like to be appropriately dressed when leaving for work. This ain't a western country.
I can't imagine the more polished 9W senior crew members wanting to be in that attire below :

Image

Anshabi has incorrectly shown AirAsia uniforms in his post.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:45 pm

VTORD wrote:
My understanding is that there is atleast 1 Mumbai slot that AI has and is not using. This was discussed in the previous Indian Av thread in context of incidentally Jet complaining that they wanted to purchase it.

It wasn't an LHR slot, IIRC. Jet was rumoured to be eyeing the last remaining, 7 weekly flying rights on the Indian side (as part of the India-UK bilateral) that AI had the first right of refusal to.
Apparently, 9W wanted to start a second DEL-LHR on a B773, probably on slots borrowed from one of their european partner airlines.

At the LHR end, I am assuming since their BLR flight is 3 x weekly, they could use that slot for other days. But I may be way off mark here.

AI had one set of daily slots that it was using on AMD-LHR-EWR (and back) thrice a week and a standalone AMD-LHR once a week, just to avoid losing the LHR slot. This got converted to AMD-LHR-BLR (and back) thrice weekly plus the AMD standalone. So, AI has no more free slots at LHR, as of now.
 
smartplane
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:26 pm

lightsaber wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Additional developments:

1. "Ministry of Finance has decided to waive a mandatory customs requirement, which needs Jet Airways' grounded planes in India to be first be sent to the country of registration of their lessors and then fly them back to India before they can be used by other carriers."

The customs rule is interesting... Silly, but interesting.

The requirement originates from the maritime industry, and naturally just continued into aviation.

In the 20th century, it was an inconvenience required mainly by tax authorities. Many leases, but not all, push the tax boundaries to the limit. In the finance industries, the polite term for commercial aircraft leases are 'tax effective'. Customs / tax authorities scrutinise the declared export value, which will have overdue payments and penalties 'attached', versus the declared import value which will be 'clean'.

When a lease is broken / ends prematurely, it's imperative for all parties there is a clean termination and fresh start. Becomes more critical when aircraft will remain in the same country, on a new lease, and when there may be costs, like fuel and taxes, recorded against a particular aircraft.

Decades ago, leased commercial aircraft would go on a joy ride to the lessor's country of origin, which defined the start of the new lease on a new aircraft, and the end of a lease / start of the new on a used aircraft. Then more recently, it was acceptable to do a touch and go, and even more recently, to overfly the country.

Now as in this case, the lessor and lessee's two countries of origin can execute a waiver.

Still has the same effect. The existing leasing syndicate is deemed to have ended, and new one created, though the composition might be identical (unlikely - there will be funding participants who decide India is too high risk).
 
vadodara
Posts: 918
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:32 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Here is an Interview with Jayant Sinha, the Minister of State of Finance, on Jet's collapse. He is so polished and explained the Government's position very well. This is the kind of minister that one should be proud - educated, articulated, clarity in thought, logical, and non-biased. When politicians are generally thought of as goons, he is quite the opposite -- a shining spark.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 965463.cms


Agreed. I found the question where she asks him why the banks said they would infuse money and then didn’t - what changed - to be interesting. He didn’t answer that. The banks should absolutely do what is in their commercial interest but why announce and then pull back. The minister should know what happened. Where I blame the minister is that this full process has been a circus. He says “this is the way markets should work” He is right on when to bail out. He is totally wrong that allowing this circus was the right thing. I am 100% sure the business community isn’t saying good job india you handled the Jet closure well.


Jayant Sinha is Aviation; banks are under finance. People should get their ministries right!

Regardless, Sinha’s Boss, Suresh Prabhu had gone on the record saying the govt should not interfere in an individual airlines business.

Considering that NG as the owner of 51% voting stock did not play ball should be squarely to be blamed. This outcome should not be a surprise to anyone either.
 
binayak
Posts: 959
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:34 pm

avier wrote:

You're right , SG cabin crew only have a choice of short dresses. Their ground staff however get a choice for pants.
Vistara and AI would be apt for ex-9W senior cabin crew members. Also remember, this is India, many crew walk out of conservative homes and would like to be appropriately dressed when leaving for work. This ain't a western country.
I can't imagine the more polished 9W senior crew members wanting to be in that attire

Anshabi has incorrectly shown AirAsia uniforms in his post.


No senior CC from jet will join SG or any LCC . You can refer to this post of mine :
binayak wrote:
Once again topic shifted , this time from what next for jet to whether the crew will be comfortable working at 6E/SG ! To make the same clear:
The ones joining those airlines are mostly <3yrs experienced and might not have even completed their graduation till now so their choice is limited .
Senior crew have wider range of options as most have a degree in Hospitality Management / Fashion Designing / Business Management and thus can join industries other than aviation . There are various industries where experience as an FA adds good points to your resume .

PS : Please stop taunting edealinfo for his age . He's just a young , curious avgeek .
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12295
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:29 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
Just looked up fares for LAX-BOM from June 7 - 24. AF/DL/KL are charging a ridiculous $4500 roundtrip for economy.
When I looked up fares a couple of days ago, they were charging around $2000. How are they expecting to fill Y with those fares?

If they're charging more than twice what they previous were, then shouldn't that tell you that they (1) are anticipating high demand, and thus level it out with higher prices, or (2) believe that they an garner those fares for the majority of seats, and thus don't care about "filling"
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
VTORD
Posts: 520
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:16 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
It wasn't an LHR slot, IIRC. Jet was rumoured to be eyeing the last remaining, 7 weekly flying rights on the Indian side (as part of the India-UK bilateral) that AI had the first right of refusal to.
Apparently, 9W wanted to start a second DEL-LHR on a B773, probably on slots borrowed from one of their european partner airlines.

At the LHR end, I am assuming since their BLR flight is 3 x weekly, they could use that slot for other days. But I may be way off mark here.

AI had one set of daily slots that it was using on AMD-LHR-EWR (and back) thrice a week and a standalone AMD-LHR once a week, just to avoid losing the LHR slot. This got converted to AMD-LHR-BLR (and back) thrice weekly plus the AMD standalone. So, AI has no more free slots at LHR, as of now.

Aha makes sense! Thanks (@Andy33 too) for the clarification!

So that being said, when Lohani mentions BOM/DEL-LHR in that letter to SBI, does that mean AI has somehow found slots at LHR!? They could actually just add a BOM/DEL tag-on to the AMD-LHR flight without having to lease any a/c. They have plenty lying around....

re: the second DEL-LHR on 9W, I think I saw a tweet somewhere which mentioned some rumor of VS adding another DEL....can't find it though.....
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1483
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:30 pm

VTORD wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:

re: the second DEL-LHR on 9W, I think I saw a tweet somewhere which mentioned some rumor of VS adding another DEL....can't find it though.....


1. Does VS have slots to spare at LHR?

2. Would VS mainly cater to O&D or also N. American traffic?

3. Because of the silly transit visa requirement, LHR is not a friendly airport to transit for Indian passport holders as opposed AMS, CDG, FRA, ZUR etc.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1067
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:02 am

edealinfo wrote:
VTORD wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:

re: the second DEL-LHR on 9W, I think I saw a tweet somewhere which mentioned some rumor of VS adding another DEL....can't find it though.....


1. Does VS have slots to spare at LHR?

2. Would VS mainly cater to O&D or also N. American traffic?

3. Because of the silly transit visa requirement, LHR is not a friendly airport to transit for Indian passport holders as opposed AMS, CDG, FRA, ZUR etc.


I think 9W used LHR just for connections to the US using VS and DL.mso assuming everyone had a usa visa, indians would not need a transit visa.
 
behramjee
Posts: 4930
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:06 am

edealinfo wrote:
VTORD wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:

re: the second DEL-LHR on 9W, I think I saw a tweet somewhere which mentioned some rumor of VS adding another DEL....can't find it though.....


1. Does VS have slots to spare at LHR?

2. Would VS mainly cater to O&D or also N. American traffic?

3. Because of the silly transit visa requirement, LHR is not a friendly airport to transit for Indian passport holders as opposed AMS, CDG, FRA, ZUR etc.


With regards to point 3, Indians do not need a transit visa for UK if they have a valid US/Canada or EU visa existing in their passports.

As far as point 1 is concerned, even if VS lease one of the EY/9W LHR slots i.e. the early morning one for arr/dep, they still need to get arr/dep slot at DEL airport for this planned second daily service which wont be an easy task.
Last edited by behramjee on Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
VTORD
Posts: 520
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:21 am

behramjee wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

3. Because of the silly transit visa requirement, LHR is not a friendly airport to transit for Indian passport holders as opposed AMS, CDG, FRA, ZUR etc.


With regards to point 3, Indians do not need a transit visa for UK if they have a valid US/Canada or EU visa existing in their passports.


Correct. And this requirement would only affect pax traveling from US >> India. Also, cannot comment about ZUR but AMS, CDG and FRA all require the transit visa.

edealinfo wrote:
1. Does VS have slots to spare at LHR?

2. Would VS mainly cater to O&D or also N. American traffic?


1. No idea
2. Given their current flight is not good for NA connections, I would say a 2nd flight would be more so for that traffic
 
behramjee
Posts: 4930
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:32 am

VTORD wrote:
behramjee wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

3. Because of the silly transit visa requirement, LHR is not a friendly airport to transit for Indian passport holders as opposed AMS, CDG, FRA, ZUR etc.


With regards to point 3, Indians do not need a transit visa for UK if they have a valid US/Canada or EU visa existing in their passports.


Correct. And this requirement would only affect pax traveling from US >> India. Also, cannot comment about ZUR but AMS, CDG and FRA all require the transit visa.

edealinfo wrote:
1. Does VS have slots to spare at LHR

2. Would VS mainly cater to O&D or also N. American traffic?


1. No idea
2. Given their current flight is not good for NA connections, I would say a 2nd flight would be more so for that traffic


With regards to Indians needing transit visas for AMS, ZRH, FRA and CDG, I have checked again through the IATA Timatic software and the rules stated for check in pax holding Indian passports are as follows:

AMS + ZRH + FRA + MUC + CDG - no transit visa required if travelling onwards to EU UK and North America

So I dont know why or from where, people think Indians require transit visas for the above mentioned EU airports + LHR if they are flying onwards to USA/CAN or other EU states.
 
VTORD
Posts: 520
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:50 am

behramjee wrote:

With regards to Indians needing transit visas for AMS, ZRH, FRA and CDG, I have checked again through the IATA Timatic software and the rules stated for check in pax holding Indian passports are as follows:

AMS + ZRH + FRA + MUC + CDG - no transit visa required if travelling onwards to EU UK and North America

So I dont know why or from where, people think Indians require transit visas for the above mentioned EU airports + LHR if they are flying onwards to USA/CAN or other EU states.


I think we are getting off-topic but key phrase: if they are flying onwards to USA/CAN or other EU states

A passenger who falls in this category will always have a valid visa stamped in their passport so they don't need the transit visa. But.....

A passenger who is traveling from the US to India may or may not need one based on his current job status.

Eg., I am on H1B and work for company A in the US. My visa is valid up to 03/21/2019. My company renewed my visa beyond that date but I am traveling to India only after 04/01/2019, this means my visa has expired and I need to get a visa stamped in my PP at a US consulate/embassy. I would need a transit visa on my USA - India leg through any of those airports. The I-797A approval notice is no longer valid for travel but is valid for me to live and work in the US so long as I don't exit the country. This has been a major plus for the ME3 as they do not have this requirement.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1483
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:52 am

behramjee wrote:
VTORD wrote:
behramjee wrote:

AMS + ZRH + FRA + MUC + CDG - no transit visa required if travelling onwards to EU UK and North America

.


Can you check for LHR? I do know that different rules apply at UK (e.g. LHR). That's why many travel agents don't recommend transfers at LHR for Indian passport holders.
 
DTWLAX
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:19 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:54 am

[quote="VTORD"Also, cannot comment about ZUR but AMS, CDG and FRA all require the transit visa.

[/quote]
No, AMS, CDG and FRA do not need a transit visa
 
acavpics
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:54 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:19 am

behramjee wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
VTORD wrote:


1. Does VS have slots to spare at LHR?

2. Would VS mainly cater to O&D or also N. American traffic?

3. Because of the silly transit visa requirement, LHR is not a friendly airport to transit for Indian passport holders as opposed AMS, CDG, FRA, ZUR etc.


With regards to point 3, Indians do not need a transit visa for UK if they have a valid US/Canada or EU visa existing in their passports.

As far as point 1 is concerned, even if VS lease one of the EY/9W LHR slots i.e. the early morning one for arr/dep, they still need to get arr/dep slot at DEL airport for this planned second daily service which wont be an easy task.


Could VS get a slot at BOM and restart operations there? 9W had 3 daily 777s to LHR. Losing all those flights took away over 1000 seats per day on the route. Surely, a fraction of that capacity must be restored.
 
Fargo
Posts: 810
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:25 am

Is there a chance KL can start AMS-BLR now?
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1067
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:53 am

acavpics wrote:
behramjee wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

1. Does VS have slots to spare at LHR?

2. Would VS mainly cater to O&D or also N. American traffic?

3. Because of the silly transit visa requirement, LHR is not a friendly airport to transit for Indian passport holders as opposed AMS, CDG, FRA, ZUR etc.


With regards to point 3, Indians do not need a transit visa for UK if they have a valid US/Canada or EU visa existing in their passports.

As far as point 1 is concerned, even if VS lease one of the EY/9W LHR slots i.e. the early morning one for arr/dep, they still need to get arr/dep slot at DEL airport for this planned second daily service which wont be an easy task.


Could VS get a slot at BOM and restart operations there? 9W had 3 daily 777s to LHR. Losing all those flights took away over 1000 seats per day on the route. Surely, a fraction of that capacity must be restored.


I’m sure VS or DL could usage the slot that they leased to 9W. BOM will just give them the slot as well. I think the bigger issue is VS/DLKL/AF have to decide how much of the traffic is worth going after if they have to fly the route. They clearly were keen on letting 9W fly the EU-India routes. If I had to guess, I would say LHR-BOM will be added and KL will go daily on AMS-BOM. They only thing that might change this if the DL crew thinks that their visibility has improved in India since the 9W partnership and they feel they can get the traffic. I don’t think so. 9W’s asset was that it was indian.
 
acavpics
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:54 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:17 am

Fargo wrote:
Is there a chance KL can start AMS-BLR now?


I've read that they don't have that many spare aircrafts at the moment. So I think it would be some time till will see them launch BLR. I think its more likely that they increase capacity to BOM first.
 
JOYA380B747
Posts: 773
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:31 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:20 am

Some discussions and 'questions' in the last two pages have gone not only beyond the scope of this thread but level of absurdity as well. Just saying.
India's biggest loss w.r.t global aviation (so far) - Being an Australasia-Europe stopover.
 
User avatar
Viman
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:30 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:35 am

lightsaber wrote:
SQ789 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Jet lost a hundred pilots to SpiceJet.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 1.html/amp

I read somewhere else over 400 pilots have left Jet. Sorry I forgot to grab the link.

What is being bid on? This certainly seems like a pig in a poke. For modern business communication is key.

Lightsaber

And how many planes needed from this troubled airline into Spicejet after hiring employees from that troubled airline?

We know they are taking 22 738 and 5 ATR quickly, plus 2 more ATR later in the summer. Sometime this year the MAX will fly again.

100 pilots is enough for only 7+ aircraft. They would have some slack from the MAX grounding. However, I see a need for SpiceJet to hire 100 to 200 more pilots before the MAXes fly again. Judging from their press releases, they are trying to (preference in hiring to Jet employees...). The MAXes will need another 300 to 400 pilots in 2019 for SpiceJet.

So doing the math, 1700 Jet pilots at the peak (1600 at failure).
400 already have new jobs.
SpiceJet needs 500 to 600 more 737 pilots in 2019.
Indigo needs 400 to 600 more pilots just by end of summer. Another 100+ in fall/winter.
EK needs pilots, probably 100+.

Then Vistara and AirAsia (India) also need 100+ pilots (more?).

I have my assumptions on Indian cadet programs and rate they can promote to Captain. With those assumptions, India will be back to a pilot shortage in the late fall. Personally, the year notice rule must be abandoned, it is brutally unfair. I can see 3 months of notice, a la doctors. But 12 months? :no:

Leasing companies and banks are scrambling to place Jet's aircraft. While many will leave India, it looks like we are on track to have at least 32 remain.

I'm more worried about a global aircraft surplus than shortage.
787 at 168 per year.
A350 at 105+ per year
777 temporarily down, but I am a fan of the 779
A330 production will remain low.

A320 production growing to ~700/year (I refuse to quote monthly as total <12*monthly)

737 production also growing (paused, but it shall grow). 630+ per year.

A220 factory progressing for a significant line bump by 2020. We'll see 100+ per year.

Embraer can produce far more E2.

China will force C919 adoption.

Russia will mandate MC-21 adoption.

This makes for a tougher resale market for prior generation aircraft. Oh wait, this always happens; it has just been longer than typical, so people have forgotten.

So I do not worry about Jet's competitors finding aircraft.

Lightsaber


Spicejet is getting 90 seater Q400 not ATR72.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 17664
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:47 am

Viman wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
SQ789 wrote:
And how many planes needed from this troubled airline into Spicejet after hiring employees from that troubled airline?

We know they are taking 22 738 and 5 ATR quickly, plus 2 more ATR later in the summer. Sometime this year the MAX will fly again.

100 pilots is enough for only 7+ aircraft. They would have some slack from the MAX grounding. However, I see a need for SpiceJet to hire 100 to 200 more pilots before the MAXes fly again. Judging from their press releases, they are trying to (preference in hiring to Jet employees...). The MAXes will need another 300 to 400 pilots in 2019 for SpiceJet.

So doing the math, 1700 Jet pilots at the peak (1600 at failure).
400 already have new jobs.
SpiceJet needs 500 to 600 more 737 pilots in 2019.
Indigo needs 400 to 600 more pilots just by end of summer. Another 100+ in fall/winter.
EK needs pilots, probably 100+.

Then Vistara and AirAsia (India) also need 100+ pilots (more?).

I have my assumptions on Indian cadet programs and rate they can promote to Captain. With those assumptions, India will be back to a pilot shortage in the late fall. Personally, the year notice rule must be abandoned, it is brutally unfair. I can see 3 months of notice, a la doctors. But 12 months? :no:

Leasing companies and banks are scrambling to place Jet's aircraft. While many will leave India, it looks like we are on track to have at least 32 remain.

I'm more worried about a global aircraft surplus than shortage.
787 at 168 per year.
A350 at 105+ per year
777 temporarily down, but I am a fan of the 779
A330 production will remain low.

A320 production growing to ~700/year (I refuse to quote monthly as total <12*monthly)

737 production also growing (paused, but it shall grow). 630+ per year.

A220 factory progressing for a significant line bump by 2020. We'll see 100+ per year.

Embraer can produce far more E2.

China will force C919 adoption.

Russia will mandate MC-21 adoption.

This makes for a tougher resale market for prior generation aircraft. Oh wait, this always happens; it has just been longer than typical, so people have forgotten.

So I do not worry about Jet's competitors finding aircraft.

Lightsaber


Spicejet is getting 90 seater Q400 not ATR72.

You are correct. I'm too used to seeing one win the market:
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=m ... d2c70cc983

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
User avatar
trinidadeG
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:43 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:50 am

VTORD wrote:
So that being said, when Lohani mentions BOM/DEL-LHR in that letter to SBI, does that mean AI has somehow found slots at LHR!? They could actually just add a BOM/DEL tag-on to the AMD-LHR flight without having to lease any a/c. They have plenty lying around....

Well, 9W's LHR slots are gone. So AI can either use their existing slots, or shop around from Star Alliance partners. Its not going to be cheap.
I was thinking AI would replace their own 787s flying BOM/DEL-LHR with wet-leased 9W 773s, quickly bumping up capacity offered, whilst freeing up their 787s to deploy elsewhere.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1483
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:51 am

JOYA380B747 wrote:
Some discussions and 'questions' in the last two pages have gone not only beyond the scope of this thread but level of absurdity as well. Just saying.

Can you please specifically list the so called questions (from the 14 questions) that YOU would classify as falling in the category of "absurd" and provide basic justification of why you think it is absurd?
 
VTCIE
Posts: 297
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:10 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:30 am

edealinfo wrote:
JOYA380B747 wrote:
Some discussions and 'questions' in the last two pages have gone not only beyond the scope of this thread but level of absurdity as well. Just saying.

Can you please specifically list the so called questions (from the 14 questions) that YOU would classify as falling in the category of "absurd" and provide basic justification of why you think it is absurd?

A discussion, if not a question, that I found completely off-topic: 9W FAs will not join 6E/SG because of their uniforms!

Fortunately @binayak had a karaara jawaab (befitting reply) for all the digressions. To rephrase his words, 9W FAs who are joining 6E, SG, G8, etc. are mostly young (below 25) and inexperienced, so there is not much else of an option. But the senior FAs do not need to join an aviation-related job at all because they hold a degree that will hold them in good stead.

That said, the sooner these bright young women get a salary, the better. Images of 9W FAs crying have become far too common in the media over the past 72 hours.
Last edited by VTCIE on Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
In grieving remembrance of the thousands of people who lost their lives on ET-AVJ, PK-LQP, XA-UHZ, S2-AGU, CP-2933, SU-GCC, EI-ETJ, D-AIPX, PK-AXC, 9M-MRD, VT-AXV and above all 9M-MRO, besides many more. Your deaths are not in vain. Safety first, always.
 
Andy33
Posts: 2419
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:34 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
I’m sure VS or DL could usage the slot that they leased to 9W.


Not now they couldn't, they've started using it for something else, they have to really, as I've said many times but not everyone seems to notice, LHR has a "use it or lose it" rule. These slots have an asset value in the owning company's books, and explaining to the shareholders that they've allowed a significant asset to simply vanish because they forgot to follow the rules isn't likely to be easy. Now they can I suppose cancel the "something else" - involving refunds and possibly compensation to passengers under EU rules, and potentially expensive re-routing on other airlines. Then they have to find a long-haul aircraft (because I think the ex-Jet slot pair is being used by Virgin Connect with a Q400) that's doing nothing all summer season. Maybe they'll launch something for winter 2019/2020. but before that, most unlikely.

Look for the three LHR slot pairs that Etihad has (ex lease to Jet) to be used for something else very soon for the same reason. While the Indian banks, legal system, and government continue their cumbersome dance around the carcase of Jet, the rest of the world moves on.
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