CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1070
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:36 pm

DLPMMM wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
DLPMMM wrote:

In liquidating Jet, the intangible asset like supplier contracts, employee contracts and the non fungible slots are lost since the corporation entity is dissolved in order to get rid of the residual secured plus the unsecured debt. Basically, all that can be acquired in this case are aircraft from the lessors/lien holders and the ground handling equipment and office furniture. The corporation is dissolved and all contracts terminated.

If they want to buy the slots and contracts, they have to agree to buy the corporation before it is dissolved, which means they have to agree to take on both the secured and unsecured debt as well as have the agreement of the current equity holders.

The unsecured debt load was why I said there was no way to resurrect Jet as agreement from the unsecured and secured debt holders is pretty much impossible given the financial reports from the last 8 months.

That is why I have been saying that Jet was already dead and fanciful schemes are not possible.


But doesn’t the court have the ability to restructure or write off vendor debt. That is what the article seem to say (but I could be wrong, and I understand Indian newspapers don’t always get things right). Again assuming the GOI really does want to get as much back on the PSU bank debt, I would think they would want to approve the vendor debt restructuring. After all even if the vendors got 10% what is owned, it is better than zero.


The unsecured debt holders are owed almost as much as the banks.

The banks will get about 30% back by liquidation of the assets. Why would the want to take an 80% or more haircut?

The vendors are screwed and pissed off. They want nothing to do with Jet and will not extend them credit. The current contracts with them are only valid if they are fully paid up.

I’ve seen this lots of times before.


To your comment about 30% back - we are in the liquidation process so what does haircut have anything to do with it. It is the bankruptcy court that now will restructure Jet's assets to get the most back for all creditors. Going by the article, it does seem (but again I do not know) that the court can sell off assets without debt attached (included vendor debt). Also the vendors are not pissed at the potential new owners of Jet so am confused. If both sides agree to assign the current agreement (without old liabilities) or essentially sign a new agreement, what would the issue be (new or old contracts are really semantics here). I have bought assets/companies in liquidation (or fire sales) and this hasn't really been an issue. The beauty is you can essentially not take contracts you don't want. Those vendors get left behind and have to stand in line for compensation. The main issue is when the old contract is at a cost that the new buyer thinks is too high. Some vendors will stick to their guns. The other issue is if a airline buys Jet and has better vendor contracts than Jet did. Now that vendor is in a pickle. If they match the Jet rate, they lose their premium they currently have with the buying airline. That said, I don't think anyone (employees, vendors, airports, etc) will view the Jet being purchased in liquidation as "Jet Airways" that was owned by NG. So what does they are pissed have to do with anything?

All I have said above is a moot point if I misinterpreted the article. Very unclear what happens in Indian Bankruptcy court.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7070
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:06 pm

DLPMMM wrote:

The unsecured debt holders are owed almost as much as the banks.

The banks will get about 30% back by liquidation of the assets. Why would the want to take an 80% or more haircut?

The vendors are screwed and pissed off. They want nothing to do with Jet and will not extend them credit. The current contracts with them are only valid if they are fully paid up.

I’ve seen this lots of times before.


Do you consider banks as secured debt holders?

30% of 8500 Cr is 2550 Cr. Does Jet has 2550 Cr immobile assets? How much property NG owns.

BTW 30% recovery vs 80% haircut is just 10%. You are making it look like the difference is huge.

NCLT is a jack-of-all-disputes tribunal, from vendor invoices to labor disputes, bankruptcy is just one of those tasks. If the tribunal members think employee salary dues take precedence, both banks and unsecured vendors are screwed.

If NCLT rules to recover from mobile aviation assets, aircraft owners/trustees always can move the supreme court of India under Capetown treaty.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7070
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:28 pm

INR5/post ADHD LCSWM from CMB need not fact-check.
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:42 pm

edealinfo wrote:
aarbee wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

Also, the revival of Jet will hurt Ajit Singh more than anyone else.


More conspiracy theories just because you are devastated that the Indian electorate choose not follow your direction.



What dtw2hyd stated is FACT not a conspiracy theory.

How will it hurt Ajit Singh? Could either of you elaborate on the "FACT"?

Or we just accept everything your Lordship says about Ajit Singh because of failure of beloved Jet Airways?

-R
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:45 pm

Antarius wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
aarbee wrote:
More conspiracy theories just because you are devastated that the Indian electorate choose not follow your direction.

If you want to constantly bring in your utter dislike for the current govt., it's leader, the community he is from, etc. on this thread ... better look into Indian Politics Mega thread in Non-Aviation.


Other than on these special-ed shills curated a.net threads, these are widely accepted on any aviation forum and news media.

I know this post will be promptly deleted but all insults will be kept for the record,


Ironic.

Anyways, I'm done with this for good. Enjoy your failing airline and conspiracy theories and non-fact based quips.

And people lament why a.net loses so many posters and is left with quantity vs quality.


WOW. Cannot find the original post and hence have to reply on Antarius post.

Was that an insult to the entire forum, the thread posters or special-ed people? Certain sections of news media creates a conspiracy theory and just because it agrees to your political leaning it doesn't becomes a fact.

Just because a business person is close to a political party which you dislike, does not mean that only reason of success is because of the connections.

I had no idea about Ajay Singh and till about 2-3 days back only thing I knew was he's owner of SpiceJet and had a hand in 2014 BJP campaign. I have NO connections nor I'm defending AS. But the way it is portrayed around here by some people it sounded like Ajay Singh was a cloth trader in Bhopal and because of his affinity towards BJP he was allowed to take over SpiceJet in 2015.

While digging a bit deeper over this weekend, I came to know that he no stranger to aviation. Surprise, Surprise ... He was the founder of SpiceJet around 2005 and was pushed out around 2010.
Who pushed him out? Family of the then Union Textile minister who were a major part in UPA government. Talk about closeness to ruling government. Wonder why the media and those very same posters on aviation board do not bring this up. They don't talk about how former owners brought the airline to ground and pretty much told the Civil Aviation ministry that they are not interested in running the airline.

I do not want to go further than that on this CA thread because the rest is more suited Non-Aviation board.

-R
Love the AIXes
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1070
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:23 pm

This thread is going off the rails again. Let's focus where we are.
So Jet is going into the Indian version of bankruptcy court. To the Indian posters that are familiar what exactly does that mean:
1) It looks like there is an order that debtors (including employees) will get paid - makes sense not controversial
2) The one article posted makes it seem that vendor agreements and/or vendor debt can get adjusted (this was a EY ask). Is this true?
3) Can the Jet corporation be sold through this court (obviously for money to then be used to pay off debtors) without having old Jet debt still held to it?
4) Do people see a way that a Vistara or EY could buy what remains of Jet to launch a new airline (while still keeping their slots). Obviously they would need to negotiate new aircraft leases and vendor agreements. But assuming it is like most places, vendors don't usually consider the sins of the past owner to new owner buying the pieces.

Would love to hear your thoughts.
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:25 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
So I think you are right that the negative news hasn't played well. I am speculating here so feel free to not read on: basically Jet shutting down the way it did (and I don't mean NG getting kicked out - no one cares - if Jet would have become Vistara or any other FSC airline no one would have blinked) - the elites in BOM and to a lessor extent DEL & BLR were affected. No one bought the story line that it was a brilliant management move by Spice and Spice's ad in the newspaper praising Modi was just too much for pro Modi BJPers in BOM (remember Modi is very popular in BOM and is seen as pro business and against petty crony capitalism - even though everyone knows the BJP has to play the game). The Spice thing just was too public and the "perceived" pain too much for media/banking/rich people. Also the notion that India does not have a developed enough economy to support a private FSC with intl long haul has not played well either (call it foolish ego but that is how some feel). The biggest miscalculation was that Spice would be able to step in and fill in the Jet gaps. It probably can domestically, but no airline can fill the gap on long haul. So how ever you slice it, it looks like a big fail for Indian aviation to non anet frequent flyers in certain major cities. The FB posts by my family friends angry about the Spice/Jet thing are very real and these people are normal frequent flyers with no personal reason to love Jet or NG. Right or wrong all cities are not created equal. So the negative news seems stronger because it comes from BOM/DEL/BLR. But agreed someone in Mysore probably doesn't care. So net net what will happen. Who knows, the circus just continues. Maybe the GOI will allow a smaller Jet to come back that focuses on long haul with key banks at BOM and DEL to support it. So create a win for spice and a win for a FSC (I am not using the name Jet because I don't want to get into the save Jet back and forth - jet is dead - this is about a new FSC).

And to those who just want to go on a BOM rant, please save us all that. I am trying to analyze why the minister would say Jet will be saved and this process never dies. I don't buy that the GOI needs to make it look like they are trying. It has gone on long enough - kill Jet if that is what they want and move on. The point is they are not and keep sending mixed signals. So something is up. the question is what is driving this? Would love to hear your thoughts even if you disagree with me on every point I have said.

There's too much here. As you say it's speculation, will not go deep into it. But two points :
1) "remember Modi is very popular in BOM" --> Based on the recent election results, I would say it is not just BOM, it is pan-India
2) Somehow trying to interlink Jet's failure with Spice and expecting Spice to fill the gap is bit far fetched.
Love the AIXes
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2261
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:28 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:

All I have said above is a moot point if I misinterpreted the article. Very unclear what happens in Indian Bankruptcy court.


All you have said is moot because you do not know how bankruptcy courts work in India or anywhere else in the world. (The Indian Bankruptcy system is much closer to the UK and German systems than the USA system).

Jet has lots of different loans from different banks, most of which will have some sort of security.

Individual assets are secured by different lenders under different loans. Each lender will take control of each asset they hold as collateral and sell it under supervision of the court, with any (unlikely) left over monies above and beyond the debt amount going into the pot...with may be taken by other secured creditors if the sold asset was cross collateralized by other secured loans. Each asset sold might be backing several loans of secured creditors in this fashion.

The assets are not sold in blocks by the courts who divvy up the monies as they see fit to different creditors.

The secured creditors are called "secured" because their loans are guaranteed or "secured" by specific assets of the company. Upon default of the company to make contractual payments, the secured creditor can sieze the secured asset and sell it to pay down the defaulted loan.
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:53 pm

airboss787 wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
aarbee wrote:
That should be organically : "Vistara can organically and efficiently "

What does “organically” grow even mean? Some MBA buzzword?


No MBA, it's a pretty common business term. Organically just means that they should grow internally. Not by acquiring someone or taking someone over. Its growth that is natural and 'on their own'.

Thank you airboss787

:)
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:48 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
aarbee wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

Aarbee - the indemnity is about coming after the new owners for potential wrong doings of NG. That is totally normal. In the US you wouldn't need the govt to indemnify you because the laws give you work arounds (to a point). Hindujas clearly feel that Indian laws do not protect them, so they are asking the govt for indemnity.

Ok. So it is about liability issue. Even so, why should the govt. do it. It will create a seriously bad precedence. Somebody will start company, loot investors, give up, brother comes in as new investor without liablity, and the circle will go on.

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Can I ask why you get so passionate if people are not happy with the way things are handled re Jet? It is just their opinion. None of us work for an airline (that we know of - not counting the intern). Maybe one or two of us have admitted to being aviation consultants. But why are all the posts so aggressive against people. If you disagree with them, either correct them or ignore them. Look there seem to be two camps here (1) Those that lament Jet's closing and who cannot understand why Indian laws / banking rules don't allow the pieces of Jet to be sold to another owner and (2) those that feel Jet should die where die doesn't mean their current investors getting nothing it is where die means all the spoils of Jet should be given away. Both sides seem to agree the NG was a bad manager and deserves to be out.

I'm in neither camp. I have being silent for the longest time and more content with getting updates in civil aviation, Indian CA, 9Ws blow up, in that order. It's absolutely fine to discuss opinions. Let the GOI check if there is some connection between long time UK residents (Hindujas and Goyals)

What I see is 2 sets of people (person) who are in your camp 1
1) Who want to promote their political agenda in Civil Aviation and using 9W issues as a tool
2) Who are extremely upset about 9Ws implosion and using anything and everything including : politics, having NO basic minimum understanding of India and unnecessarily berating India (I'm NOT at all of the opinion that it is above criticism), comparing to NK, throwing a fit because NG was off loaded, showing the maturity of a 3rd grader by continuously misspelling Indian PMs name to bring politics in here, accusing of hatred, making fun of looks of civil aviation, I know better than EXIM bank, etc. etc. (List is endles)

So just because I argue against that doesn't make me of camp 2. I don't despise NG. NG at the end of the day was instrumental in changing the face of Indian .
aviation. Too bad his ego and at the end played his hand so bad that it's impact was not only on passengers also to their loyal employees.

CaliguyNYC wrote:
So if you agree with the above, then what is there to get so emotional. I would have been happy if say Vistara would have bought Jet's BOM opperations. The banks would have made money and Vistara would have been up and running with a nice hub. But yet I am a Jet lover. On other threads people would not describe my opinion as a lover of the failed airline. In the Jet case we have the added option of just giving away a lot of the value of Jet. Most situations with other airline failures don't have this option. So in reality no one here is a Jet lover. It is really between maintain a BOM hub airline vs destroy it.


I love aviation and happy to see the progress of Indian aviation. But, as I said in the Indian aviation thread, thats where we differ. Since you are BOM centric (don't consider this as a personal attack) your thoughts, opinions and preferences are BOM/9W centric, which is completely fair. But at the same time the growth and state of Indian aviation is not just BOM/9W. The fact that:
  • There are direct flights Indore-Nagpur, Bengalaru-Udaipur.
  • Guwhati people have 2 options to travel to Jaipur and in under 5 hours.
  • Amritsar and Goa has direct connections to Doha and beyond
  • Lucknow residents can travel to Bangkok.
without going to BOM and not using 9W shows me the progressive state of Indian aviation.

Vistara can originally and efficiently grow based on their two promoters, without changing their business plan because of 9W demise.

Indian aviation can survive without BOM hub and it's former hub airline.


Thank you Aarbee I appreciate your response. My only quibble would be the 2 categories of people you put in my camp - both descriptions are very negative. Couldn't't you have taken the high road and not personally attacked people. I fit neither category. I am not extremely upset at Jet's downfall nor do I have a political agenda. So you could have added - lovers of FSC in India (unless you doubt my publicly stated motivation).


Apologies. I could have found a better word(s) instead of "your camp". Not only your personally stated motivation, based on your posts, I never thought to place you in either of the 2 categories.

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Now to your BOM point - something has been lost in your and my back and forth. For some reason you see things as mutually exclusive. Meaning to support a BOM hub is innately to be against P2P routes between tier 2/3 cities. I have been consistent in my view that all profitable non hub routes should be kept. Also all essential P2P business routes should be kept (because you need them even with losses to serve your core premium clients). Never have I said these routes are not important nor that airlines should not try to develop them. Am I super focused on them - no. But I also believe they should be connected to major cities. Like any country a Tier 3 city usually wants to be connected to the capital, the financial center and the biggest city it is connected too (say CCU for the NE). Then you do small city to small city. India hasn't even connected big cites properly to small cities forget about small to small. So for me supporting hubs does not mean not supporting smaller cities. You keep bringing connecting small cities when I talk about BOM or DEL. It is as if to even discuss BOM/DEL means there is an attack being raged on tier 2/3 cities. There is not. But as others have said, I do also believe that Tier 2 and 3 cities all over the world see the best connectivity when you have strong local airlines (and typically strong hubs). Can Indian aviation survive without strong hubs, yes absolutely. Will it be world class, super profitable and thrive, probably not (and I only say that because of what we have seen the world over - but I admit, India could buck the trend - odds say it is hard). Frame our debate as hub vs p2p. That would be so much less personal and so much more accurate to our debate.

No I don't think that they are mutually exclusive. But somehow the strong emphasis on BOM in 9W debate has somehow being framed into "India, Indian aviation revolves around BOM", to the extant berate the non Indian Airlines and their operations.
WRT to what might be prevalent world over (which in some cases is not true) might not hold appropriate for India. As in USA because of vast distances there are multiple major international gateways, India because of population base same might apply here.

I don't think wrt to India the debate is not as simple as hub vs p2p.


CaliguyNYC wrote:
Finally BOM/DEL drive a huge percentage of the Indian economy, tourist arrivals etc. When aviation is disrupted in those two cities, it does affect India. You may not care, but it is not some weird elitist thing to be concerned about it (and I would even add BLR to that now). So all I am saying is please don't infer things based on your own biases. Sometimes the simplest reasons for someone's views is the answer. And yes you can add to all the above that I travel back to BOM, am Skyteam and tend to fly business so Jet affects me more than some. Nothing crazy sinister here.

There is NO doubt about BOM/DEL share and importance in Indian economy. Over the years that numbers have changed, rest of India has become more relevant.
But sure RoI is still nowhere near disrupting their positions at the top. Your statement about aviation disruption in BOM/DEL used to hold absolutely true (101%) few years back. But now a days, especially for the domestic travel, it is less relevant. Thanks to budget airlines that impact is significantly lower (not saying that there is NONE) for rest of India. That applies a bit to International travel too, much thanks to Middle East and Far East airlines. E.g. in the non-BOM centric view HYD-Nice is a one stop flight and not HYD-BOM-CDG-NCE. Forget aviation even for BOM residents the world north of Bandra-Chembur line is not only completely different but less economic/entertainment/(You name it) dependence south.

I don't have any bias towards BOM. Just as your opinions are framed based on your needs (which is completely human and not crazy sinister), in these day and age they might be diametrically opposite what the new middle class in rest of India prefer.

-R
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:53 pm

airboss787 wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
for how long was spicejet grounded? I am not saying Jet will ever fly but am curious as to what made Spicejet a different case.


If I am not mistaken, SpiceJet was grounded only for a few hours because fuel companies refused to fuel aircraft. But things moved extremely fast and Ajay Singh came to the rescue very quickly. He was probably already in discussions with the Marans. The govt also provided some guarantee so that helped. Not knowing exactly what behind the scenes stuff happened, it was quite different. Cleaner but sparse balance sheet, less debt, less baggage, an owner who was looking to sell anyway, smaller fleet to restart, among others.


sibibom wrote:
The most important thing that saved SpiceJet (besides the correct political affiliation of the new owner) was the Marans getting out before it was too late. Jet could and would have been saved had this been done late last year. NG prevented this, now its honestly gone too far to be saved.


unrave wrote:
sibibom wrote:
The most important thing that saved SpiceJet (besides the correct political affiliation of the new owner) was the Marans getting out before it was too late. Jet could and would have been saved had this been done late last year. NG prevented this, now its honestly gone too far to be saved.

Also the fact that SG had not defaulted on bank debt


blrsea wrote:
True that. If Marans had hanged on till the end like NG, spicejet would have gone under too. And the turnaround wasn't easy. It took them almost 3-4 years to steer the company towards a palatable bottom line. Plus what unrave mentioned about the bank debt.

Fact is NG played poker without anything worthwhile in his hand, and all other players including EY, lenders, govt called his bluff. But by that time the company was beyond redemption.

Govt will meet with anyone and everyone who wants to turn around 9W, or employees, and give them a patient hearing and will tell them law will take its course.



These are more reasonable than just saying Ajay Singh's closeness to government was the only reason.

Again I have NO connections nor I'm defending Ajay Singh.

-R
Love the AIXes
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1070
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:49 pm

aarbee wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
for how long was spicejet grounded? I am not saying Jet will ever fly but am curious as to what made Spicejet a different case.


If I am not mistaken, SpiceJet was grounded only for a few hours because fuel companies refused to fuel aircraft. But things moved extremely fast and Ajay Singh came to the rescue very quickly. He was probably already in discussions with the Marans. The govt also provided some guarantee so that helped. Not knowing exactly what behind the scenes stuff happened, it was quite different. Cleaner but sparse balance sheet, less debt, less baggage, an owner who was looking to sell anyway, smaller fleet to restart, among others.


sibibom wrote:
The most important thing that saved SpiceJet (besides the correct political affiliation of the new owner) was the Marans getting out before it was too late. Jet could and would have been saved had this been done late last year. NG prevented this, now its honestly gone too far to be saved.


unrave wrote:
sibibom wrote:
The most important thing that saved SpiceJet (besides the correct political affiliation of the new owner) was the Marans getting out before it was too late. Jet could and would have been saved had this been done late last year. NG prevented this, now its honestly gone too far to be saved.

Also the fact that SG had not defaulted on bank debt


blrsea wrote:
True that. If Marans had hanged on till the end like NG, spicejet would have gone under too. And the turnaround wasn't easy. It took them almost 3-4 years to steer the company towards a palatable bottom line. Plus what unrave mentioned about the bank debt.

Fact is NG played poker without anything worthwhile in his hand, and all other players including EY, lenders, govt called his bluff. But by that time the company was beyond redemption.

Govt will meet with anyone and everyone who wants to turn around 9W, or employees, and give them a patient hearing and will tell them law will take its course.



These are more reasonable than just saying Ajay Singh's closeness to government was the only reason.

Again I have NO connections nor I'm defending Ajay Singh.

-R


I believe your post is not directed at me, but I agree at a high level with what you are trying to say. I think some of the posts might have been taken to be more of an attack than they really were. So maybe I use the words wrongly, but when I or others use crony capitalism, I feel it just means influence (or a close relationship). If it was something illegal or involved cash payments, I would have said corruption. Spice seems to have a close relationship to the BJP and or Modi. I don't think there is any indication they did anything illegal.
 
vadodara
Posts: 919
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:28 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
vadodara wrote:
NG instead played Poker with a bad hand.


I actually think he had a really good hand but didn't expect the googly (cricket terminology; don't know what the equivalent is for poker)

In my opinion, NG thought that there was not a chance in the world that a Government, on the precipice of national re-elections, would allow a high profile company with 22K staff to fall. In fairness to NG, and others who play such high profile political games, the timing of the crisis was perfect [that ordinarily would have worked in their favor as the political parties tend to buckle and give in]


I dont think NG was counting on the GOI. I think he was blackmailing EY and his “source” of funds. Where the money comes from has always been unclear. Net net he didn’t behave like someone who had his own money at risk.


Yes clearly he had a lot to gain in skimming off Jet’s finances; nothing to loose if his equity went under.
 
vadodara
Posts: 919
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:35 am

aarbee wrote:
While digging a bit deeper over this weekend, I came to know that he no stranger to aviation. Surprise, Surprise ... He was the founder of SpiceJet around 2005 and was pushed out around 2010.
Who pushed him out? Family of the then Union Textile minister who were a major part in UPA government. Talk about closeness to ruling government.

-R


Umm yes, the entire cast of Congress DMK politicians fit this bill.

Chidambaram, Marans, Kanimozhi, Raja and so forth. Tfhey were so incompetent that inspite of the govt working for them they managed to loose money.

At least Chidu is smart enough not to start his own business.
 
blrsea
Posts: 1909
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:42 am

aarbee wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
for how long was spicejet grounded? I am not saying Jet will ever fly but am curious as to what made Spicejet a different case.


If I am not mistaken, SpiceJet was grounded only for a few hours because fuel companies refused to fuel aircraft. But things moved extremely fast and Ajay Singh came to the rescue very quickly. He was probably already in discussions with the Marans. The govt also provided some guarantee so that helped. Not knowing exactly what behind the scenes stuff happened, it was quite different. Cleaner but sparse balance sheet, less debt, less baggage, an owner who was looking to sell anyway, smaller fleet to restart, among others.


sibibom wrote:
The most important thing that saved SpiceJet (besides the correct political affiliation of the new owner) was the Marans getting out before it was too late. Jet could and would have been saved had this been done late last year. NG prevented this, now its honestly gone too far to be saved.


unrave wrote:
sibibom wrote:
The most important thing that saved SpiceJet (besides the correct political affiliation of the new owner) was the Marans getting out before it was too late. Jet could and would have been saved had this been done late last year. NG prevented this, now its honestly gone too far to be saved.

Also the fact that SG had not defaulted on bank debt


blrsea wrote:
True that. If Marans had hanged on till the end like NG, spicejet would have gone under too. And the turnaround wasn't easy. It took them almost 3-4 years to steer the company towards a palatable bottom line. Plus what unrave mentioned about the bank debt.

Fact is NG played poker without anything worthwhile in his hand, and all other players including EY, lenders, govt called his bluff. But by that time the company was beyond redemption.

Govt will meet with anyone and everyone who wants to turn around 9W, or employees, and give them a patient hearing and will tell them law will take its course.



These are more reasonable than just saying Ajay Singh's closeness to government was the only reason.

Again I have NO connections nor I'm defending Ajay Singh.

-R


There are couple of posters, one of whom is averse to facts & gets agitated when asked for proof, and passes off opinions as facts, and another juvenile who thinks he could be the best airline CEO in India & has contempt for every Indian system and rules, both of whom see conspiracy everywhere and have derailed Indian aviation related threads with their contorted view and prevent having a rational discussion. Thats why you see so much distortion of facts in this thread. Just go through the thread from beginning to understand how one or two can spoil the forum for everyone with their unsubstantiated claims and deliberate derailment of thread
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:26 am

edealinfo wrote:
That's theory, not in practice. Did you not read that the banks had to go to the Govt to discuss the potential haircut on loans to Jet? Banks don't work in isolation. Big decisions are always made by the Government. Have you not seen a puppet show? Notice that the puppets are controlled by others. That's how things work. How do you think SpiceJet got to be so successful?

Yes, Yes, Yes. SpiceJet got to be successful only because it was controlled/helped by GOI. The founder promoter had no sense of aviaiton, transportation, no experience in running an airline, no business sense, etc. etc. Keep up more conspiracy theories. :shakehead:

edealinfo wrote:
With Jet going belly up and concerns about continued lending to the aviation sector, how do you think they are getting working capital loans to acquire 40 of Jet's plans virtually overnight (i.e., in 50 days which is relatively overnight in airline fleet acquisition terms). Spicejet's capacity will go up by 80% this year. Don't you think that is highly unusual?

With all due respect unrave, you think India operates from an idealized standpoint. All of us on this forum wish that is the case. The new Government has indeed substantially cleaned up much of the system compared it what it was previously under other political parties........however, favoritism still exists.

Nobody in their right mind thinks that India operates in some of idealized standpoint. No country/govt can run like that. There are practical and much deeper aspects around it, to some ow which we are not priv to.

There is no perception that India is some sort of Utopia but at the same time the likes of throwing mud and whatever sticks, portraying India as lawless, questioning electoral process, comparing to NK, etc, etc. just because beloved Jet Airways failed is quite despicable

Sure, sure more about favoritism :shakehead:

-R
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:47 am

vadodara wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
vadodara wrote:
NG instead played Poker with a bad hand.


I actually think he had a really good hand but didn't expect the googly (cricket terminology; don't know what the equivalent is for poker)

In my opinion, NG thought that there was not a chance in the world that a Government, on the precipice of national re-elections, would allow a high profile company with 22K staff to fall. In fairness to NG, and others who play such high profile political games, the timing of the crisis was perfect [that ordinarily would have worked in their favor as the political parties tend to buckle and give in]


If anything NG was counting on some corrupt politicians to be back in saddle; his dreams blew up in smoke.

I speculate that there is much more it for Jets downfall then this.

Don't wan to start a conspiracy theories here,
Love the AIXes
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1070
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:06 pm

aarbee wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
That's theory, not in practice. Did you not read that the banks had to go to the Govt to discuss the potential haircut on loans to Jet? Banks don't work in isolation. Big decisions are always made by the Government. Have you not seen a puppet show? Notice that the puppets are controlled by others. That's how things work. How do you think SpiceJet got to be so successful?

Yes, Yes, Yes. SpiceJet got to be successful only because it was controlled/helped by GOI. The founder promoter had no sense of aviaiton, transportation, no experience in running an airline, no business sense, etc. etc. Keep up more conspiracy theories. :shakehead:

edealinfo wrote:
With Jet going belly up and concerns about continued lending to the aviation sector, how do you think they are getting working capital loans to acquire 40 of Jet's plans virtually overnight (i.e., in 50 days which is relatively overnight in airline fleet acquisition terms). Spicejet's capacity will go up by 80% this year. Don't you think that is highly unusual?

With all due respect unrave, you think India operates from an idealized standpoint. All of us on this forum wish that is the case. The new Government has indeed substantially cleaned up much of the system compared it what it was previously under other political parties........however, favoritism still exists.

Nobody in their right mind thinks that India operates in some of idealized standpoint. No country/govt can run like that. There are practical and much deeper aspects around it, to some ow which we are not priv to.

There is no perception that India is some sort of Utopia but at the same time the likes of throwing mud and whatever sticks, portraying India as lawless, questioning electoral process, comparing to NK, etc, etc. just because beloved Jet Airways failed is quite despicable

Sure, sure more about favoritism :shakehead:

-R

Hmm the working capital question regarding Spice is a good question. Wasn't working capital essentially what brought down Jet in the end (so not the main cause but what broke the camel's back)?

Unrave - there is no need to take either extreme - utopia or lawless. I don't think anyone here thinks either. Just because people want India to do better doesn't make them less patriotic. Many argue the ones that speak up are the patriots and the ones that say chalta hai are who let the cancer spread. Right or wrong, the GOI has had some very visible and global missteps wrt business environment - Vodofpne's tax issue and Walmart/Flipkart owning brands they sell. Again I am not saying the GOI was right or wrong, I am just saying India is getting a reputation for not being a firmly held to a stable business law as once thought (India was always positioned as legally stable for business while China was the Wild West).

Btw I brought the discussion to "favoritism" to lighten the sting for you. To help frame in writing that no one was saying corruption. But you still shake your head. That means all you want is silence and no criticism? Is this Aryavarta from the new Netflix show (sorry I couldn't resist just got done binging Leila)?
 
avier
Posts: 868
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:04 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
On another note - for long time posters here - I can't believe we are back to talking about AI new routes and expansion. It is like 2008 again. But good at least there is a lot going on in Indian aviation.

Why 2008? Have you missed out on the very diverse AI expansion on Int'l markets using their 787 Dreamliners over the last few years? ;)
 
vadodara
Posts: 919
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:32 pm

aarbee wrote:
vadodara wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

I actually think he had a really good hand but didn't expect the googly (cricket terminology; don't know what the equivalent is for poker)

In my opinion, NG thought that there was not a chance in the world that a Government, on the precipice of national re-elections, would allow a high profile company with 22K staff to fall. In fairness to NG, and others who play such high profile political games, the timing of the crisis was perfect [that ordinarily would have worked in their favor as the political parties tend to buckle and give in]


If anything NG was counting on some corrupt politicians to be back in saddle; his dreams blew up in smoke.

I speculate that there is much more it for Jets downfall then this.

Don't wan to start a conspiracy theories here,


But if the books were clean then there would be no room for speculation!!!
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2584
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:40 pm

News just in: NCLT admits Jet Airways under IBC

I believe this finally vindicates the stand of those of us who have been calling out Jet's dire financial status
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
avier
Posts: 868
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:00 pm

unrave wrote:
News just in: NCLT admits Jet Airways under IBC

I believe this finally vindicates the stand of those of us who have been calling out Jet's dire financial status

Why did their stock price shoot up suddenly? That doesn't make sense.
I wonder what happens next: liquidation or some kind of resolution they speak of.

https://m.economictimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/nclt-admits-sbis-insolvency-plea-against-jet-airways-directs-irp-to-find-solution-within-three-months/articleshow/69876421.cms
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1070
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:20 pm

Thought this article was interesting on Jet and IBC
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 20421.html

Interesting things - the head of SBI said that he couldn't predict what would happen in the NCLT because no airline has gone through it (so fascinating) and then the below quote:

"A meeting of lenders was held to consider the way forward in respect of Jet Airways. After due deliberations, lenders have decided to seek resolution under IBC (Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code, 2016) since only a conditional bid was received and requirement of the investor for SEBI exemptions and resolution of all creditors is possible under IBC."

So it looks like that the banks thing the IBC allows for debt and vendor debt to be restructured. The stock price apparently went up 122% on the news (so even equity holders have hope - which I find crazy but oh well)
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1070
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:49 pm

avier wrote:
unrave wrote:
News just in: NCLT admits Jet Airways under IBC

I believe this finally vindicates the stand of those of us who have been calling out Jet's dire financial status

Why did their stock price shoot up suddenly? That doesn't make sense.
I wonder what happens next: liquidation or some kind of resolution they speak of.

https://m.economictimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/nclt-admits-sbis-insolvency-plea-against-jet-airways-directs-irp-to-find-solution-within-three-months/articleshow/69876421.cms


This is the big question. I think the Tatas were right. The only way to buy Jet or pieces of Jet debt free (or restructured) was through IBC. But I would imagine the IBC court (or tribunal?) would then auction off a cleaned up Jet or pieces. EY clearly would have preferred to get these concessions before IBC because they hold 25%. In IBC (I am guessing), the court sells a piece or the whole of Jet, EY would just get paid based on their priority (and equity holders would probably get nothing). Not a cleaned up Jet might go for enough money that equity holders do get paid. Who knows (when the head of SBI says who knows what will happen, you know this is uncharted territory).

Interesting times...
 
avier
Posts: 868
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:50 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:

Interesting things - the head of SBI said that he couldn't predict what would happen in the NCLT because no airline has gone through it (so fascinating) and then the below quote:

"A meeting of lenders was held to consider the way forward in respect of Jet Airways. After due deliberations, lenders have decided to seek resolution under IBC (Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code, 2016) since only a conditional bid was received and requirement of the investor for SEBI exemptions and resolution of all creditors is possible under IBC."

So it looks like that the banks thing the IBC allows for debt and vendor debt to be restructured. The stock price apparently went up 122% on the news (so even equity holders have hope - which I find crazy but oh well)


Also from the news link I posted, something else was stated:
..the tribunal rejected the plea by the Netherlands based vendors for filing an intervention application, saying the Dutch district court had no jurisdiction to order bankruptcy of Jet Airways.
The tribunal also rejected the bankruptcy pleas filed by two operational creditors of Jet--Shaman Wheels and Gaggar Enterprises. These companies claim Rs 8.74 crore, and Rs 53 lakh respectively from the airline, and were the first to take the airline for bankruptcy on June 10.


Wonder how's the process going to take place.
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:21 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
aarbee wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
That's theory, not in practice. Did you not read that the banks had to go to the Govt to discuss the potential haircut on loans to Jet? Banks don't work in isolation. Big decisions are always made by the Government. Have you not seen a puppet show? Notice that the puppets are controlled by others. That's how things work. How do you think SpiceJet got to be so successful?

Yes, Yes, Yes. SpiceJet got to be successful only because it was controlled/helped by GOI. The founder promoter had no sense of aviaiton, transportation, no experience in running an airline, no business sense, etc. etc. Keep up more conspiracy theories. :shakehead:

edealinfo wrote:
With Jet going belly up and concerns about continued lending to the aviation sector, how do you think they are getting working capital loans to acquire 40 of Jet's plans virtually overnight (i.e., in 50 days which is relatively overnight in airline fleet acquisition terms). Spicejet's capacity will go up by 80% this year. Don't you think that is highly unusual?

With all due respect unrave, you think India operates from an idealized standpoint. All of us on this forum wish that is the case. The new Government has indeed substantially cleaned up much of the system compared it what it was previously under other political parties........however, favoritism still exists.

Nobody in their right mind thinks that India operates in some of idealized standpoint. No country/govt can run like that. There are practical and much deeper aspects around it, to some ow which we are not priv to.

There is no perception that India is some sort of Utopia but at the same time the likes of throwing mud and whatever sticks, portraying India as lawless, questioning electoral process, comparing to NK, etc, etc. just because beloved Jet Airways failed is quite despicable

Sure, sure more about favoritism :shakehead:

-R

Hmm the working capital question regarding Spice is a good question. Wasn't working capital essentially what brought down Jet in the end (so not the main cause but what broke the camel's back)?

Unrave - there is no need to take either extreme - utopia or lawless. I don't think anyone here thinks either. Just because people want India to do better doesn't make them less patriotic. Many argue the ones that speak up are the patriots and the ones that say chalta hai are who let the cancer spread. Right or wrong, the GOI has had some very visible and global missteps wrt business environment - Vodofpne's tax issue and Walmart/Flipkart owning brands they sell. Again I am not saying the GOI was right or wrong, I am just saying India is getting a reputation for not being a firmly held to a stable business law as once thought (India was always positioned as legally stable for business while China was the Wild West).

I think that should be directed at edealinfo rather than unrave. Patriotism if the case, does not come into picture here. It's the matter of understanding the practicality of situations. Throwing fits for everything, accusing of corruption because of closeness to administration, etc. to paint individual agenda is quite amusing.

I will stay out of the business debate as I think the moment global and national wild wild west adventures are questions and in some form regulate for consumer benefits, it suddenly becomes a business unfriendly environment in India. :roll:

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Btw I brought the discussion to "favoritism" to lighten the sting for you. To help frame in writing that no one was saying corruption. But you still shake your head. That means all you want is silence and no criticism? Is this Aryavarta from the new Netflix show (sorry I couldn't resist just got done binging Leila)?

You are just getting it wrong my friend. I have never objected to criticism and not advocating silence, but if somebody wants just pursue their agenda relentlessly because of personal bias and dislikes, don't expect silence in response.

Not caught up with Leila yet, maybe some day :smile:

-R
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:23 pm

vadodara wrote:
aarbee wrote:
vadodara wrote:

If anything NG was counting on some corrupt politicians to be back in saddle; his dreams blew up in smoke.

I speculate that there is much more it for Jets downfall then this.

Don't wan to start a conspiracy theories here,


But if the books were clean then there would be no room for speculation!!!

Let the appropriate authorities investigate NG and beloved Jet Airways, to gross displeasure of some posters, rather then speculate.
Love the AIXes
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1070
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:35 pm

aarbee wrote:
vadodara wrote:
aarbee wrote:
I speculate that there is much more it for Jets downfall then this.

Don't wan to start a conspiracy theories here,


But if the books were clean then there would be no room for speculation!!!

Let the appropriate authorities investigate NG and beloved Jet Airways, to gross displeasure of some posters, rather then speculate.


I think you misread his post. He was being sarcastic.

Btw there hasn't been anyone on this forum for quite some time that defends NG's mgmt skills or the source of funds debate (which was discussed here so so long ago). The only comment I saw someone post was that it was odd for the GOI to bring up source of funds years and years later (right or wrong, it is a fair viewpoint IMHO).
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:57 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
aarbee wrote:

These are more reasonable than just saying Ajay Singh's closeness to government was the only reason.

Again I have NO connections nor I'm defending Ajay Singh.

-R


I believe your post is not directed at me, but I agree at a high level with what you are trying to say.

No it was not directed at you.

CaliguyNYC wrote:
I think some of the posts might have been taken to be more of an attack than they really were. So maybe I use the words wrongly, but when I or others use crony capitalism, I feel it just means influence (or a close relationship). If it was something illegal or involved cash payments, I would have said corruption. Spice seems to have a close relationship to the BJP and or Modi. I don't think there is any indication they did anything illegal.


When "crony capitalism" is mentioned there is there is some much of negative connotation to it and the way some posters have portrayed Ajay Singh/SpiceJet/GOI it reeks of corruption and inappropriate favoritism for incompetent entities.

Based on some reading I did over the weekend
https://www.livemint.com/Companies/t9wG ... d-man.html (Could be a PR job, but I'm sure it's not without facts)
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 784441.cms

I think the GOI couldn't have handled the situation any better and probably salvaged a undesirable situation.

But it SEEMS the way some people wanted is, GOI to call 1.3b people individually. GOI to
Hardeep Kaur --> U want to buy SG --> NO :smile:
Vipul Patel --> U want to buy SG --> NO :smile:
Mina Balasubramanium --> U want to buy SG --> NO :smile:
Sameer Pedakar--> U want to buy SG --> NO :smile:
Ali Haider --> U want to buy SG --> NO :smile:
.... :lol: :lol: :lol:
just to argue their bias.


P.S. - Again I have NO connections nor I'm defending Ajay Singh.
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:04 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Further confirmation that Jet is dead, dead, dead:

Aviation Minister states India is "not a nanny state"......

https://www.thehindu.com/business/Indus ... 944557.ece


No need to be a nanny, just don't be the au pair from hell in an LMN movie. That's what GoI was for Jet.

Again in your alternative universe GOI made it their objective in 2014 to destroy 9W and NG is Warren Buffet with all the wisdom and clean business practices.



unrave wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
No need to be a nanny, just don't be the au pair from hell in an LMN movie. That's what GoI was for Jet.

Thank you GoI for not trying to keep a zombie airline alive.

:P
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:11 pm

vadodara wrote:
aarbee wrote:
While digging a bit deeper over this weekend, I came to know that he no stranger to aviation. Surprise, Surprise ... He was the founder of SpiceJet around 2005 and was pushed out around 2010.
Who pushed him out? Family of the then Union Textile minister who were a major part in UPA government. Talk about closeness to ruling government.

-R


Umm yes, the entire cast of Congress DMK politicians fit this bill.

Chidambaram, Marans, Kanimozhi, Raja and so forth. Tfhey were so incompetent that inspite of the govt working for them they managed to loose money.

At least Chidu is smart enough not to start his own business.

That is more amusing that nobody in this forum talks about how SG was bought by brother of Union minister of GOI , but that's not crony capitalism, right ? :lol: ;)

blrsea wrote:
There are couple of posters, one of whom is averse to facts & gets agitated when asked for proof, and passes off opinions as facts, and another juvenile who thinks he could be the best airline CEO in India & has contempt for every Indian system and rules, both of whom see conspiracy everywhere and have derailed Indian aviation related threads with their contorted view and prevent having a rational discussion. Thats why you see so much distortion of facts in this thread. Just go through the thread from beginning to understand how one or two can spoil the forum for everyone with their unsubstantiated claims and deliberate derailment of thread


:bigthumbsup:
Love the AIXes
 
UKFLYER26
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 3:14 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:16 pm

Jet Airways Fleet Update (Entire Fleet)

Update 3

Broken down into fleet type and ordered by MSN

737-700 (3/4)
of 3 re-registered aircraft, 3 currently placed

VT-JGX - 34805 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JGY - 34806 - To SpiceJet as VT-SYU
VT-SIZ - 33025 - To SpiceJet as VT-SYO
VT-SJA - 33026 - To SpiceJet as VT-SYP

737-800 (35/72)
of 50 re-registered aircraft, 35 currently placed

VT-JGF - 29639 - To Jet2 as G-DRTI
VT-JGG - 29668 - To GOL Brazil as PR-GZD - Currently D-ALEA
VT-JTC - 29685 - To SpiceJet as VT-SYM
VT-JGA - 30410 - To SpiceJet as VT-SYK
VT-JTD - 30734 - Stored as OE-IDC - To FlyBondi as LV-HKN
VT-JGJ - 32578 - Stored
VT-JGK - 32579 - For Cargo Converstion - Ferried Jinan - Stored as N542RL
VT-JGE - 32663 - For Cargo Converstation - Ferried Shanghai - To Primeair as N855DM
VT-JLE - 33555 - To SpiceJet as VT-SYI
VT-JLF - 33556 - To SpiceJet as VT-SYJ
VT-SJI - 34399 - To SpiceJet as VT-SXB
VT-SJJ - 34400 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JGQ - 34797 - To SpiceJet as VT-SYF
VT-JGP - 34798 - To SpiceJet as VT-SYG
VT-JGR - 34799 - To SpiceJet as VT-SYA
VT-JGS - 34800 - To SpiceJet as VT-SYJ
VT-JGT - 34801 - Stored as M-ABLZ
VT-JGU - 34802 - Stored as M-ABMA
VT-JGV - 34803 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JGW - 34804 - To SpiceJet as VT-SXA
VT-JBF - 35082 - To SpiceJet as VT-SYC
VT-JBG - 35083 - Stored (Owned Aircraft)
VT-JBD - 35099 - To SpiceJet as VT-SYD
VT-JBE - 35106 - To SpiceJet as VT-SYE
VT-JBG - 35289 - Stored as OE-IBS - Ferried Addis Ababa (assuming EIS with Ethiopian?)
VT-JBL - 35651 - Stored (Owned A/C)
VT-JBK - 36551 - Stored as N551AG
VT-JBK - 36553 - Stored as N553CG
VT-JBQ - 36694 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JBR - 36695 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JBS - 36698 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JTF - 36813 - De-Reg Complete - Stored - Ferried Ostrava
VT-JTG - 36815 - De-Reg Complete - Stored - Ferried Ostrava
VT-JBM - 36817 - To Smartavia as VQ-BBV
VT-JBN - 36818 - To Smartavia as VQ-BBW
VT-JBP - 36819 - To Smartavia as VQ-BBY
VT-JBU - 36825 - Stored as 2-STND
VT-JBV - 36827 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JBB - 36846 - Stored as N846AG
VT-JBC - 36847 - Stored as N847AG
VT-JTE - 37743 - To GOL Brazil as PR-GZE - Currently D-AAAN
VT-JTL - 37745 - To GOL Brazil as PR-GZF
VT-JTM - 37746 - To GOL Brazil as PR-GZG - Currently D-AAAP
VT-JBW - 37960 - To Vistara as VT-TGD
VT-JBX - 37961 - To MIAT Mongolian Airlines as JU-1088
VT-JFA - 38029 - Stored - Ferried Ostrava
VT-JFC - 38030 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JFD - 39051 - Stored as 2-JFDA - Ferried Malta
VT-JFE - 39053 - To Vistara as VT-TGA
VT-JFF - 39055 - To Vistara as VT-TGC
VT-JFG - 39057 - To SpiceJet as VT-SYQ
VT-JFH - 39058 - To Vistara as VT-TGB
VT-JFJ - 39059 - Stored as 2-TJFJ
VT-JFK - 39060 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JFL - 39061 - To SpiceJet as VT-SYR
VT-JFN - 39062 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JFQ - 39063 - Stored as 2-TJFQ - Ferried Ostrava
VT-JFR - 39064 - To SpiceJet as VT-SYS
VT-JFS - 39065 - Stored as M-ABLY - Ferried Nagpur
VT-JFT - 39066 - Stored as M-ALBX - Ferried Nagpur
VT-JFM - 39067 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JFP - 39068 - Stored as 2-TJFP - Ferried Ostrava
VT-JFZ - 39069 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JTB - 39070 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JFB - 39401 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JTH - 40233 - De-Reg Compelte - Stored
VT-JTK - 40235 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JTN - 40236 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JFW - 42799 - To SpiceJet as VT-SYH
VT-JFX - 42800 - Stored as 2-JFXX To GOL Brazil as PR-GZH
VT-JFY - 42804 - To SpiceJet as VT-SYN
VT-JTA - 42805 - To Vistata as VT-TGF

737-900 (3/6)
of 3 re-registered aircraft, 1 currently placed

VT-JGC - 30412 - To SpiceJet as VT-SYL
VT-JGD - 33740 - Stored
VT-JLH - 35223 - Stored as OE-IDW
VT-JLJ - 35225 - Stored
VT-JBY - 35227 - Stored as OE-IDZ
VT-JBZ - 36539 - De-Reg Complete - Stored

737-Max 8 (1/8)
of 1 re-registered aircraft, 0 currently placed

VT-JXD - 43558 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JXF - 43615 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JXA - 44681 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JXC - 44862 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JXE - 44863 - Stored as D-ALAD
VT-JXG - 44864 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JXH - 43616 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JXB - 60703 - De-Reg Complete - Stored

777-300 (1/10)
of 1 re-registered aircraft, 0 currently placed

VT-JET - 35157 - Stored
VT-JEV - 35158 - Stored
VT-JES - 35159 - Stored
VT-JEU - 35160 - Stored
VT-JEQ - 35161 - Stored as OE-IIJ
VT-JEM - 35162 - Stored
VT-JEX- 35163 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JEW - 35164 - Stored - Impounded Amsterdam
VT-JEK - 35165 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JEH - 35166 - De-Reg Complete - Stored

330-200 (1/4)
of 1 re-registered aircraft, 0 currently placed

VT-JWW - 888 - Stored
VT-JWV - 923 - Stored
VT-JWP - 947 - Stored as 2-ACUA - Ferried Tarbes-Loudes
VT-JWQ - 956 - De-Reg Complete - Ferried Madrid Barjas

330-300 (2/4)
of 2 re-registered aircraft, 0 currently placed

VT-JRW - 1351 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JWS - 1361 - Stored as M-ABLV - Ferried Tarbes-Loudes
VT-JWT - 1370 - Stored as M-ABLW - Ferried Tarbes-Loudes
VT-JWU - 1391 - De-Reg Complete - Stored

ATR 72 Fleet (17/18)
of 17 re-registered aircraft, 0 currently placed

VT-JDD - 758 - Stored as M-IBAD
VT-JCJ - 771 - Stored as M-ABMB
VT-JDC - 772 - Stored as M-IBAC
VT-JCK - 775 - Stored as M-ABMH
VT-JCL - 791 - Stored as M-ABMC
VT-JCM - 793 - Stored as M-ABMD
VT-JCN - 825 - Stored as M-ABME
VT-JCP - 841 - Stored as M-ABMF
VT-JCQ - 843 - Stored as M-ABMG
VT-JCR - 919 - Stored as M-IBAM
VT-JCS - 920 - Stored as M-IBAN
VT-JCT - 924 - Stored as M-IBAO
VT-JCU - 928 - Stored as M-IBAP
VT-JCV - 932 - Stored as M-IBAQ
VT-JCW - 933 - Stored as M-IBAR
VT-JCX - 1056 - Stored (To Be Placed On Irish Register)
VT-JCY - 1064 - Stored as EI-GIW - Ferried Sonderborg
VT-JCZ - 1075 - Stored as EI-GIX - Ferried Sonderborg

As mentioned above, hopefully I have captured everything - feel free to let me know if there is anything missing or add to the list yourself.
As with previous updates most of the movement seems to be with the 737-800 fleet.

Thanks,

UKFLYER26
Last edited by UKFLYER26 on Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:19 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
aarbee wrote:
vadodara wrote:

But if the books were clean then there would be no room for speculation!!!

Let the appropriate authorities investigate NG and beloved Jet Airways, to gross displeasure of some posters, rather then speculate.


I think you misread his post. He was being sarcastic.

I know.

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Btw there hasn't been anyone on this forum for quite some time that defends NG's mgmt skills or the source of funds debate (which was discussed here so so long ago). The only comment I saw someone post was that it was odd for the GOI to bring up source of funds years and years later (right or wrong, it is a fair viewpoint IMHO).

Management skills or not, I have NO personal dislike for him. IMO at the end of the day, he was instrumental in changing the face of Indian aviation.

The same person have contempt for everything in Indian system. As recently even investigations of probable impropriety 6 years back is also too much because beloved Jet Airways failed. In their alternate universe :
today corruption happens
tomorrow it is found
day after tomorrow it is investigated. :roll:

-R
Love the AIXes
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1070
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:30 pm

aarbee wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
aarbee wrote:

These are more reasonable than just saying Ajay Singh's closeness to government was the only reason.

Again I have NO connections nor I'm defending Ajay Singh.

-R


I believe your post is not directed at me, but I agree at a high level with what you are trying to say.

No it was not directed at you.

CaliguyNYC wrote:
I think some of the posts might have been taken to be more of an attack than they really were. So maybe I use the words wrongly, but when I or others use crony capitalism, I feel it just means influence (or a close relationship). If it was something illegal or involved cash payments, I would have said corruption. Spice seems to have a close relationship to the BJP and or Modi. I don't think there is any indication they did anything illegal.


When "crony capitalism" is mentioned there is there is some much of negative connotation to it and the way some posters have portrayed Ajay Singh/SpiceJet/GOI it reeks of corruption and inappropriate favoritism for incompetent entities.

Based on some reading I did over the weekend
https://www.livemint.com/Companies/t9wG ... d-man.html (Could be a PR job, but I'm sure it's not without facts)
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 784441.cms

I think the GOI couldn't have handled the situation any better and probably salvaged a undesirable situation.

But it SEEMS the way some people wanted is, GOI to call 1.3b people individually. GOI to
Hardeep Kaur --> U want to buy SG --> NO :smile:
Vipul Patel --> U want to buy SG --> NO :smile:
Mina Balasubramanium --> U want to buy SG --> NO :smile:
Sameer Pedakar--> U want to buy SG --> NO :smile:
Ali Haider --> U want to buy SG --> NO :smile:
.... :lol: :lol: :lol:
just to argue their bias.


P.S. - Again I have NO connections nor I'm defending Ajay Singh.


Sorry you don't like the moniker Crony Capitalism. Don't know the meaning you were taught, but in the US we apply it to a a time in our history where Oligarchs dominated. You infer that these companies are incompetent but no one on this forum is saying that (the US examples of Crony capitalism from the past were some of our biggest industrialists - hardly incompetent). You infer it is corruption but most haven't said. The more we clarify, the more you stick to your story on what we think. You think it SEEMS that people here want the GOI to talk to 1,2b people - how? From what? Who even hinted at that? You say you are not a defender of Ajay Singh, yet you get so upset that people say favoritism was involved (again no one says he is a bad manager). It is like you father, relative or mentor is being attacked. Both NG and Ajay Singh used GOI favoritism to get ahead. True or false? Like I've said before, this is the business environment in India today. But it is not illegal. And not liking it doesn't mean people are trying to defame India. The truth is the truth.

As far as the GOI handling this - let's see in today's papers the head of SBI says he has no idea what the IBC will mean for Jet. NO IDEA. He says that no airline has gone through it. So clearly there is room to grow. India wants to be, and should a 100% be, in the big league of global business. It needs clear and established business laws that have consensus domestically on what it means. That is what gets investor confidence. The SBI's comments do not bring confidence in Indian laws/processes. Just once again shows anything can happen based on the whims of who is in power (with no oversight because no one knows what should happen)! Wow...
 
UKFLYER26
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 3:14 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:31 pm

Just to make it clear which aircraft have so far been placed with Vistara or SpiceJet:

New Reg / MSN / Model / Jet Reg

Vistara 5

VT-TGA - 39053 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JFE
VT-TGB - 39058 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JFH
VT-TGC - 39055 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JFF
VT-TGD - 37960 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JBW
VT-TGF - 42805 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JTA

SpiceJet 22

VT-SYA - 34779 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JFR
VT-SYB - 34800 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JGS
VT-SYC - 35082 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JBF
VT-SYD - 35099 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JBD
VT-SYE - 35106 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JBE
VT-SYF - 33797 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JGQ
VT-SYG - 34798 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JGP
VT-SYH - 42799 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JFW
VT-SYI - 33555 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JLE
VT-SYJ - 33556 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JLF
VT-SYK - 30410 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JGA

VT-SYL - 30412 - 737-900 - Ex VT-JGC

VT-SYM - 29685 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JTC
VT-SYN - 42804 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JFY

VT-SYO - 33025 - 737-700 - Ex VT-SIZ
VT-SYP - 33026 - 737-700 - Ex VT-SJA

VT-SYQ - 39057 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JFG
VT-SYR - 39061 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JFL
VT-SYS - 39064 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JFR

VT-SYU - 34806 - 737-700 - Ex VT-JGY

VT-SXA - 34804 - 737-800 - Ex VT-JGW
VT-SXB - 34399 - 737-800 - Ex VT-SJI
 
vadodara
Posts: 919
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:59 pm

<Both NG and Ajay Singh used GOI favoritism to get ahead.>

Ajay Singh actually confounded the airline prior to when the current govt came in power; if anything he got pushed out when the lines between politicians and business blurred!

The point is the Maran’s were the lawmakers and still couldn’t run a business they had usurped.

NG was not a politician but had the guys who mattered in his pocket. He was simply unable to cope when the industry became deregulated.

Lot of pioneers have proven to be bad managers; notable examples would be the aviator founders.

NG was no aviator; he was a travel agent who figured out how to get hold of dirty money and round trip it from Dubai to start a bijnes!

Perhaps I am missing something but anyone care to remind NG’s contributions to the airline industry?
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1494
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:24 pm

vadodara wrote:

Perhaps I am missing something but anyone care to remind NG’s contributions to the airline industry?


NG created an airline which at one point was truly world class. (Quality dropped over the last several years but for a time the experience on it was outstanding)

Bijness was good until he started treating it as a Guju bijness would
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1070
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:15 pm

vadodara wrote:
<Both NG and Ajay Singh used GOI favoritism to get ahead.>

Ajay Singh actually confounded the airline prior to when the current govt came in power; if anything he got pushed out when the lines between politicians and business blurred!

The point is the Maran’s were the lawmakers and still couldn’t run a business they had usurped.

NG was not a politician but had the guys who mattered in his pocket. He was simply unable to cope when the industry became deregulated.

Lot of pioneers have proven to be bad managers; notable examples would be the aviator founders.

NG was no aviator; he was a travel agent who figured out how to get hold of dirty money and round trip it from Dubai to start a bijnes!

Perhaps I am missing something but anyone care to remind NG’s contributions to the airline industry?


Now that you brought up the travel agent part - my mom actually knows NG from long ago. When I told her Jet shut down her response was - well he used to be just a travel agent I still don’t know how he started an airline. To which I said, oh you knew that. She said, sure who do you think helped us change our Pan Am tickets in the 80s/90s. ha! I don’t think my mom has ever gotten used to change fees. She was the queen of changing our return flights back from india through “influence”
 
vadodara
Posts: 919
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:52 pm

edealinfo wrote:
vadodara wrote:

Perhaps I am missing something but anyone care to remind NG’s contributions to the airline industry?


NG created an airline which at one point was truly world class. (Quality dropped over the last several years but for a time the experience on it was outstanding)

Bijness was good until he started treating it as a Guju bijness would


Whose money? Punjabi National Bank?
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1494
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:28 pm

Interesting article on jet's bankruptcy with memorable statements including:

"So why didn’t SBI and other creditors act earlier? They probably never believed Goyal, a survivor of several tight corners in the last 25 years, was going to crash land this time. "

"As the bungling of Jet Airways shows, no insolvency law will do any good to a financial system that has too much respect for capitalists and too little for capitalism."

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 900042.cms
 
avier
Posts: 868
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:19 pm

Resolution Professional meets Jet Airways management, fast tracks process

Chhawchharia also implemented a complete moratorium of all claims, proceedings, cases and notices to Jet.
No properties or assets of Jet either in custody or with the airline can be attached by any entity. There was an eviction notice from its office in Siroya Towers. That too has been stopped.
The RP will be asking for bids from potential investors. In case a buyer isn’t found in 90 days, the airline will go into liquidation.
https://m.economictimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/resolution-professional-meets-jet-airways-management-fast-tracks-process/articleshow/69907222.cms
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1070
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:30 pm

avier wrote:
Resolution Professional meets Jet Airways management, fast tracks process

Chhawchharia also implemented a complete moratorium of all claims, proceedings, cases and notices to Jet.
No properties or assets of Jet either in custody or with the airline can be attached by any entity. There was an eviction notice from its office in Siroya Towers. That too has been stopped.
The RP will be asking for bids from potential investors. In case a buyer isn’t found in 90 days, the airline will go into liquidation.
https://m.economictimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/resolution-professional-meets-jet-airways-management-fast-tracks-process/articleshow/69907222.cms


Once again so confused as to how this process works. It looks again like they are trying to sell Jet. Is the difference now that EY and the other shareholders have no part unless they buy into the new Jet?
 
User avatar
Phosphorus
Posts: 553
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:54 pm

avier wrote:
Resolution Professional meets Jet Airways management, fast tracks process

Chhawchharia also implemented a complete moratorium of all claims, proceedings, cases and notices to Jet.
No properties or assets of Jet either in custody or with the airline can be attached by any entity. There was an eviction notice from its office in Siroya Towers. That too has been stopped.
The RP will be asking for bids from potential investors. In case a buyer isn’t found in 90 days, the airline will go into liquidation.
https://m.economictimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/resolution-professional-meets-jet-airways-management-fast-tracks-process/articleshow/69907222.cms


Oh dear.
Does the bolded part mean -- any secured creditor who hasn't repossessed yet, has now been precluded from repossessing?
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 17692
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:20 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
avier wrote:
Resolution Professional meets Jet Airways management, fast tracks process

Chhawchharia also implemented a complete moratorium of all claims, proceedings, cases and notices to Jet.
No properties or assets of Jet either in custody or with the airline can be attached by any entity. There was an eviction notice from its office in Siroya Towers. That too has been stopped.
The RP will be asking for bids from potential investors. In case a buyer isn’t found in 90 days, the airline will go into liquidation.
https://m.economictimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/resolution-professional-meets-jet-airways-management-fast-tracks-process/articleshow/69907222.cms


Oh dear.
Does the bolded part mean -- any secured creditor who hasn't repossessed yet, has now been precluded from repossessing?

Leasing companies will price the risk into future deals. Probably will take to an international court too.

Jet is gone. Trying to revive it this late is insane.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1070
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:44 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
avier wrote:
Resolution Professional meets Jet Airways management, fast tracks process

Chhawchharia also implemented a complete moratorium of all claims, proceedings, cases and notices to Jet.
No properties or assets of Jet either in custody or with the airline can be attached by any entity. There was an eviction notice from its office in Siroya Towers. That too has been stopped.
The RP will be asking for bids from potential investors. In case a buyer isn’t found in 90 days, the airline will go into liquidation.
https://m.economictimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/resolution-professional-meets-jet-airways-management-fast-tracks-process/articleshow/69907222.cms


Oh dear.
Does the bolded part mean -- any secured creditor who hasn't repossessed yet, has now been precluded from repossessing?


I think it means that any claims now have to go to the IBC tribunal. You just can’t go to a court and try to get an asset (be it in India or abroad). Just my thought I have no legal basis for this.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1070
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:51 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
avier wrote:
Resolution Professional meets Jet Airways management, fast tracks process

Chhawchharia also implemented a complete moratorium of all claims, proceedings, cases and notices to Jet.
No properties or assets of Jet either in custody or with the airline can be attached by any entity. There was an eviction notice from its office in Siroya Towers. That too has been stopped.
The RP will be asking for bids from potential investors. In case a buyer isn’t found in 90 days, the airline will go into liquidation.
https://m.economictimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/resolution-professional-meets-jet-airways-management-fast-tracks-process/articleshow/69907222.cms


Oh dear.
Does the bolded part mean -- any secured creditor who hasn't repossessed yet, has now been precluded from repossessing?

Leasing companies will price the risk into future deals. Probably will take to an international court too.

Jet is gone. Trying to revive it this late is insane.

Lightsaber


I agree on timing (but this seems to be IST when it comes to bankruptcy). Why did they not go earlier to the IBC. That said, the tribunal has to try and recover money. It was always silly to just have Jet go away. Even if an airline offered $500M for Jet’s slots and airport infrastructure, the court should take it (and really can’t say no). The GOI left the door open by granting the slots (DOM and INTL) on a temporary basis. Will be interesting how this plays out. Spice or Vistara should go after clean Jet assets. The issue though is Spice probably is still hoping to get things for free (and they still very well might). So do they bid or keep counting on the GOI to deliver things on a silver platter. Oh the dilemma...

The best thing about the IBC process is that EY and NG will probably get nothing and will not have any stake in clean Jet assets. They screwed up and should lose Jet. Now EY can bid on the assets per the rules (assuming there are rules to this process).
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1494
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:13 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:

Oh dear.
Does the bolded part mean -- any secured creditor who hasn't repossessed yet, has now been precluded from repossessing?

Leasing companies will price the risk into future deals. Probably will take to an international court too.

Jet is gone. Trying to revive it this late is insane.

Lightsaber


I agree on timing (but this seems to be IST when it comes to bankruptcy). Why did they not go earlier to the IBC. That said, the tribunal has to try and recover money. It was always silly to just have Jet go away. Even if an airline offered $500M for Jet’s slots and airport infrastructure, the court should take it (and really can’t say no). The GOI left the door open by granting the slots (DOM and INTL) on a temporary basis. Will be interesting how this plays out. Spice or Vistara should go after clean Jet assets. The issue though is Spice probably is still hoping to get things for free (and they still very well might). So do they bid or keep counting on the GOI to deliver things on a silver platter. Oh the dilemma...

The best thing about the IBC process is that EY and NG will probably get nothing and will not have any stake in clean Jet assets. They screwed up and should lose Jet. Now EY can bid on the assets per the rules (assuming there are rules to this process).

The IBC isn’t auctioning Jet’s slots (since it is not an asset of Jet but a Government asset). Even if they were to sell the slots no one would buy them for fear that airlines that got it temporarily will force endless litigation.

All that they can auction or sell are furniture and fixtures, equipment (including the old busses that move people around the airport) etc. there is no real assets to speak off other than the owner aircraft on which there are multiple charges.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1494
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:15 pm

I had repeatedly said on this forums that lessors should move their aircraft out of India as the Indian court system....,....well is the Indian court system and you know exactly what that means
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1070
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:20 pm

edealinfo wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Leasing companies will price the risk into future deals. Probably will take to an international court too.

Jet is gone. Trying to revive it this late is insane.

Lightsaber


I agree on timing (but this seems to be IST when it comes to bankruptcy). Why did they not go earlier to the IBC. That said, the tribunal has to try and recover money. It was always silly to just have Jet go away. Even if an airline offered $500M for Jet’s slots and airport infrastructure, the court should take it (and really can’t say no). The GOI left the door open by granting the slots (DOM and INTL) on a temporary basis. Will be interesting how this plays out. Spice or Vistara should go after clean Jet assets. The issue though is Spice probably is still hoping to get things for free (and they still very well might). So do they bid or keep counting on the GOI to deliver things on a silver platter. Oh the dilemma...

The best thing about the IBC process is that EY and NG will probably get nothing and will not have any stake in clean Jet assets. They screwed up and should lose Jet. Now EY can bid on the assets per the rules (assuming there are rules to this process).

The IBC isn’t auctioning Jet’s slots (since it is not an asset of Jet but a Government asset). Even if they were to sell the slots no one would buy them for fear that airlines that got it temporarily will force endless litigation.

All that they can auction or sell are furniture and fixtures, equipment (including the old busses that move people around the airport) etc. there is no real assets to speak off other than the owner aircraft on which there are multiple charges.


Sorry I didn’t mean selling their slots by themselves. I know they can’t do that. If they sell Jet, the company, the slots stay with the company. Technically Jet (the company) still has the slots come the end of October. That is why Vistara was hesitating initially from adding new aircraft. The GOI could take away the slots from Jet (the company) but for some reason has chosen to not take them away even with Jet going into the IBC. Again the news stories are very confusing on what can/will happen in this process. But the reports you have been posting all make it seem that someone could buy a clean Jet. My gut says this will never happen but I am just commenting on the stories people are posting.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1494
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:41 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

I agree on timing (but this seems to be IST when it comes to bankruptcy). Why did they not go earlier to the IBC. That said, the tribunal has to try and recover money. It was always silly to just have Jet go away. Even if an airline offered $500M for Jet’s slots and airport infrastructure, the court should take it (and really can’t say no). The GOI left the door open by granting the slots (DOM and INTL) on a temporary basis. Will be interesting how this plays out. Spice or Vistara should go after clean Jet assets. The issue though is Spice probably is still hoping to get things for free (and they still very well might). So do they bid or keep counting on the GOI to deliver things on a silver platter. Oh the dilemma...

The best thing about the IBC process is that EY and NG will probably get nothing and will not have any stake in clean Jet assets. They screwed up and should lose Jet. Now EY can bid on the assets per the rules (assuming there are rules to this process).

The IBC isn’t auctioning Jet’s slots (since it is not an asset of Jet but a Government asset). Even if they were to sell the slots no one would buy them for fear that airlines that got it temporarily will force endless litigation.

All that they can auction or sell are furniture and fixtures, equipment (including the old busses that move people around the airport) etc. there is no real assets to speak off other than the owner aircraft on which there are multiple charges.


Sorry I didn’t mean selling their slots by themselves. I know they can’t do that. If they sell Jet, the company, the slots stay with the company. Technically Jet (the company) still has the slots come the end of October. That is why Vistara was hesitating initially from adding new aircraft. The GOI could take away the slots from Jet (the company) but for some reason has chosen to not take them away even with Jet going into the IBC. Again the news stories are very confusing on what can/will happen in this process. But the reports you have been posting all make it seem that someone could buy a clean Jet. My gut says this will never happen but I am just commenting on the stories people are posting.


Agreed'; If the Resolution Professional (RP) is smart he will market the potential sale with the slots. As it is India, and he is in charge, he can pretty much make up the rules since things aren't really clear and he who leads the way sets the rules to be followed. Who will realistically oppose his decision to maximize the value in a sale of a new Jet? But, such a person would need to have kahunas to lead the way and I am not sure that is the case. Second, I am unclear if he will deliver on a "clean" Jet.

Regardless of what the RP can do, I think the fate of Jet has already been sealed. Ajay Singh ain't going to preside over his company's collapse from getting 40 ex-Jet planes to fill in Jet's void and then having the rug pulled from under his feet. There is too much at stake here. Being close to the Government and toeing the Government line delivers results, as it always has, in Indian business history.

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