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trinidadeG
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:16 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
Article is behind a paywall, but it seems like the Government wants to be able to pick and choose which slots it will return to Jet Airways.

Govt non-committal on Jet Airways' historical rights on flight slots

The government has assured the National Company Law Tribunal (NCLT) that Jet Airways will have to reapply for the slots after the resolution plan gets approved the insolvency tribunal.

However, counsel Shyam Mehta representing Ministry of Civil Aviation and DGCA didn’t comment on whether Jet Airways will receive the slots that it once enjoyed but said once the new owner, the Kalrock-Jalan consortium, applies for the new slots, the government will consider the same.

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 218_1.html


This is crazy - which is it. The GOI is the biggest debtor. Why can’t they just make a decision and either kill Jet or let Jet 2.) revive. Without the slots, what is Jet? Also it has been soooo long. The DGCA could have said we will give them x.y and z slots. This way the investment in Jet 2.0 is tied to a business opportunity. How do you disconnect the two. This all said, I guess this could just be a formality where Jet applies and gets the slots back. Who knows.


Kalrock & Co. have said that they plan to shift their base operations to DEL. I suspect some decision has already been made. A sort of "slot compromise" where 9W is given a lifeline - provided it backs out of BOM. So I agree, the Government's stance seems like a mere formality.

Take out the "BOM international-domestic transit hub"-related-slots from the list, and suddenly, Kalrock's slot requirement shrinks to what the government is likely to be able to accept without aggrieving the other carriers. As Vistara has already proven, it is quite possible for an FSC to pull off a 20-aircraft domestic operation (in order to be eligible to fly international) without flying too much from BOM.

Secondly, acquiring new slots at DEL will not be too much of a hassle for Jet 2.0, since the airport is going to add its fourth runway soon and will anyway have more slots to hand out. In-fact, I suppose GMR will roll out the red carpet to welcome the third Full Service Carrier to base itself DEL and contribute to the future expansion of T4 and T5.

As and when the Navi Mumbai Airport springs up, Jet 2.0 can start afresh, bidding for best slots from that airport to serve Mumbai.
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:28 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
Secondly, acquiring new slots at DEL will not be too much of a hassle for Jet 2.0, since the airport is going to add its fourth runway soon and will anyway have more slots to hand out. In-fact, I suppose GMR will roll out the red carpet to welcome the third Full Service Carrier to base itself DEL and contribute to the future expansion of T4 and T5.

As and when the Navi Mumbai Airport springs up, Jet 2.0 can start afresh, bidding for best slots from that airport to serve Mumbai.

Every other airline can and will also apply for slots at the expanded DEL and the upcoming NMIA. So what exactly is the advantage for Jet here? I don't get what the new buyers actually got with the 9W AOC. They could have simply started a new carrier, with a new AOC, and acquired the brand rights of Jet.

This whole sale process was a big joke from the start.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:13 am

avier wrote:
This whole sale process was a big joke from the start.

This is true.

The Government is silent on its previous affidavit filed in court!

“As per the slot allocation guidelines issued in May 2013 the ‘use it or lose it’ rules define the historical precedence which is only granted for a series of slots. Jet Airways has not applied for slots for the last three consecutive seasons and hence does not qualify for claiming the benefits of historical precedence,” the ministry and DGCA said in a joint affidavit.

In its earlier affidavit in December 2019 the ministry had said its slots and traffic rights were allocated to other airlines in larger public interest and purely on a temporary basis. However, the government’s latest affidavit which was filed today is silent on the issue.


https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 351_1.html
 
hohd
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:50 pm

Jet 1.0's only advantage was it was the only FSC from BOM where slots were scarce. Now if Jet 2.0 accepts to shift to DEL, it is one of many carriers, AI, Vistara and not to mention Indigo and SpiceJet are also based out of DEL.

What is special about Jet 2.0 - how will it distinguish itself. For Jet 2.0 to work it needs to stay in BOM and get sufficient number of slots to operate a semi-decent domestic-international hub.
 
zuckie13
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:54 pm

The blame regarding slots goes to the whole "resolution" process that has taken so long (and is still not resolved) that it's just moved beyond any reasonable period to force other airlines to give those up. You can blame the government, but blame them for a bankruptcy process that takes so long that you get into this situation.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:24 pm

avier wrote:
Antarius wrote:
It's been 2 years. I would characterize this as an evolving position due to time.

Did anyone really expect that after 2 years, the government would upend the market and hand a bunch of slots back to a bankrupt airline with minimal assets and no proven ability to use them?

True. Legally, and even per ICAO/IATA rules, they don't qualify to get back the slots.

On the other hand, airlines were asked to induct new planes to use those slots, so a lot of investment along with hiring of manpower (many were hired from Jet and their aircraft inducted too) was made when they got hold of those slots. They won't now just give up those slots, when they had taken over so much staff/aircraft just to utilize them in the first place.

The new owners didn't do any research over these rules and went more by verbal assurances, because if they had written proof of those in terms of the sale, they could have challenged it in court.
Btw, I was reading some similar issue about Flybe and their new owners having issues with getting back slots and the likelihood of the new investors pulling out over that issue.


Legally? The slots were given to each alrline on a temporary basis with the government agency extending it each what ever period (IATA season or whatever it was). That is the fact. Now is that fair? That is the real question given how long it took. But your IATA reason has nothing to do with it. The slots are owned by the Indian govt (read Indian people) and the contract for the slots clearly stated the restrictions. I think this whole process was a sham. But looks like the Jet buyer still sees value in moving forward with DEL. What value is beyond me. Having three FSC in DEL is also pointless. I think the GOI is wrong here. Let Jet die is better or have one FSC in DEL and one in BOM. China putting one carrier in each major city was wise
 
Antarius
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:24 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Having three FSC in DEL is also pointless. I think the GOI is wrong here. Let Jet die is better or have one FSC in DEL and one in BOM. China putting one carrier in each major city was wise


This is not the job or within the purview of the government of India with the exception of keeping Air India propped up. If people choose to do this, they are free to jump in to a low margin crowded environment.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:33 pm

Antarius wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Having three FSC in DEL is also pointless. I think the GOI is wrong here. Let Jet die is better or have one FSC in DEL and one in BOM. China putting one carrier in each major city was wise


This is not the job or within the purview of the government of India with the exception of keeping Air India propped up. If people choose to do this, they are free to jump in to a low margin crowded environment.


I was only reacting to the slots point. If the GOI is making exceptions in DEL and not BOM, I think it is a waste. DEL doesn't need another FSC. Let Jet die. And look the GOI has always meddled in business. I agree that government should butt out, but the GOI doesn't. That said, even the US govt tries to ensure there is connectivity at all major airports. Just having BOM-DEL shuttles doesn't serve BOM the best. But again I don't care. I think Jet should either die or let it come back the way it was.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:41 am

avier wrote:
The new owners didn't do any research over these rules and went more by verbal assurances, because if they had written proof of those in terms of the sale, they could have challenged it in court.


That doesn't seem to be the case. Both, the Resolution Professional and the winning bidder, pointed out that the 'returning of slots' was key to the resolution process, back when Kalrock won the bid. Technically, Kalrock can choose to bow out of the revival process.

the consortia’s plan is to restart the airline with a few additional narrow body planes in the next six months once the NCLT approval and slot assurance comes,” Ashish Chhawchharia, resolution professional (RP) for Jet, told TOI on Monday.


https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 761848.cms

However, since they've already made payments and set the ball rolling, Kalrock can shift to plan B i.e; a DEL based Full Service Carrier leveraging its old relations with KLM-AF to funnel NA/EU traffic into/out of India.)
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:04 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Legally? The slots were given to each alrline on a temporary basis with the government agency extending it each what ever period (IATA season or whatever it was). That is the fact. Now is that fair? That is the real question given how long it took. But your IATA reason has nothing to do with it. The slots are owned by the Indian govt (read Indian people) and the contract for the slots clearly stated the restrictions. I think this whole process was a sham.

Rules are not made on an ad hoc basis. There are definitive guidelines in place governing the industry and in this case, the slot issue. Irrespective of what the resolution professional told the new buyer's in a bid to sell the airline, it was the duty of the buyers to have sought clarity and assurance in the terms of sale over the slot issue.
One doesn't buy an expensive gadget merely with a verbal assurance over of the warranty and guarantee period of the product.

India has its own slot rules, irrespective of whether they follow IATA rules or not. But the point is, India's airport slot rules are based off the international aviation bodies recommendations. In May 2013, India had formulated the new "use it or lose it" rule.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... RaILbud6Uc

Now if these rules include something along the lines like- temporarily handing out slots to others airlines for upto two years (or any amount of time), the new owners can use that as a basis to make their point. Otherwise, there is not much they can do about it.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:58 am

avier wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Legally? The slots were given to each alrline on a temporary basis with the government agency extending it each what ever period (IATA season or whatever it was). That is the fact. Now is that fair? That is the real question given how long it took. But your IATA reason has nothing to do with it. The slots are owned by the Indian govt (read Indian people) and the contract for the slots clearly stated the restrictions. I think this whole process was a sham.

Rules are not made on an ad hoc basis. There are definitive guidelines in place governing the industry and in this case, the slot issue. Irrespective of what the resolution professional told the new buyer's in a bid to sell the airline, it was the duty of the buyers to have sought clarity and assurance in the terms of sale over the slot issue.
One doesn't buy an expensive gadget merely with a verbal assurance over of the warranty and guarantee period of the product.

India has its own slot rules, irrespective of whether they follow IATA rules or not. But the point is, India's airport slot rules are based off the international aviation bodies recommendations. In May 2013, India had formulated the new "use it or lose it" rule.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... RaILbud6Uc

Now if these rules include something along the lines like- temporarily handing out slots to others airlines for upto two years (or any amount of time), the new owners can use that as a basis to make their point. Otherwise, there is not much they can do about it.


Well, at this point, it's an accounting issue, first and foremost, no?
The "resolution professional" has to recover maximum amount of money for creditors. The government filed an affidavit that the airline in question is entitled to slots. Slots thus form part of an entity for sale.
Should the "resolution professional" second-guess the government, and try to sell the airline, without slots, contrary to government assurances that slots are there?
Then the resolution professional is actively diminishing the business case, and the value to be extracted for creditors. Sloppy job, possible liabilities for deliberately hurting creditors.

Even from purely CYA point of view, the resolution professional has to operate, based on the premise that the government will be true to its word. Unless and until the government says otherwise, in a legally binding way, he's better off holding on to that premise, no?
 
inkjet7
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:28 am

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Can they at least get VT-JEW out of AMS? It still bears the company signature and whatnot...not exactly good PR to have your old junk in somebody's else backyard


I wonder if this frame is worth more than the debts is has accrued in the meantime.
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:29 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
Well, at this point, it's an accounting issue, first and foremost, no?
The "resolution professional" has to recover maximum amount of money for creditors. The government filed an affidavit that the airline in question is entitled to slots. Slots thus form part of an entity for sale.

The catch here is, the MoCA (govt) didn't specify what slots, how many of them and at what airports specifically the airline would get back. There are more than a 100 operational airports in the country for commercial use. Jet operated to a handful of them. So there are plenty of slots, across the country, still available from that pool they can get back to resume operations. The main point of contention here is over one airport specifically, BOM. Even DEL seems to be allowing Jet to come back.
I'm in no way saying the govt isn't at fault here. What amuses me is on what basis the new owners accepted the terms of the sale. Was it mentioned in fine print that they'd get back X number of slots back at BOM? So going by the govts word, whether they were being vague or not, there are slots for them to resume operations.
Phosphorus wrote:
Even from purely CYA point of view, the resolution professional has to operate, based on the premise that the government will be true to its word. Unless and until the government says otherwise, in a legally binding way, he's better off holding on to that premise, no?

Again, the catch here is the GoI had never, in the first place, said in a legally binding way as to what slots they'd be getting back. If it was, it would be mentioned in the sale agreement, and if that were the case they can take it to court. So the initial premise on what this was based off wasn't a legally binding one to begin with, i.e wrt the slots.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:58 pm

avier wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
Well, at this point, it's an accounting issue, first and foremost, no?
The "resolution professional" has to recover maximum amount of money for creditors. The government filed an affidavit that the airline in question is entitled to slots. Slots thus form part of an entity for sale.

The catch here is, the MoCA (govt) didn't specify what slots, how many of them and at what airports specifically the airline would get back. There are more than a 100 operational airports in the country for commercial use. Jet operated to a handful of them. So there are plenty of slots, across the country, still available from that pool they can get back to resume operations. The main point of contention here is over one airport specifically, BOM. Even DEL seems to be allowing Jet to come back.
I'm in no way saying the govt isn't at fault here. What amuses me is on what basis the new owners accepted the terms of the sale. Was it mentioned in fine print that they'd get back X number of slots back at BOM? So going by the govts word, whether they were being vague or not, there are slots for them to resume operations.
Phosphorus wrote:
Even from purely CYA point of view, the resolution professional has to operate, based on the premise that the government will be true to its word. Unless and until the government says otherwise, in a legally binding way, he's better off holding on to that premise, no?

Again, the catch here is the GoI had never, in the first place, said in a legally binding way as to what slots they'd be getting back. If it was, it would be mentioned in the sale agreement, and if that were the case they can take it to court. So the initial premise on what this was based off wasn't a legally binding one to begin with, i.e wrt the slots.


Avier, with all due respect, I don’t know what you are talking about. This was a formal bankruptcy sale process (what ever that means in india). You can’t bid on something if you don’t know the assets. Key fact. All the press reports and comments from the resolution professional and the aviation ministry said that the slots were given temporarily and that Jet 2.0 would get them back. Again facts. The GOI has now changed. I feel like you are looking for loopholes to justify the GOI actions. If what you say are the facts, then the full process was even dumber than it looked to many of us. I mean which govt that owns the majority of the debt of an asset (remember GOI banks) lets the asset shut down and then takes 2 years to sell it (to recover its own money) to then say oh you thought you were buying X but it is really X minus 100. Please this makes the GOI look bad and the bankruptcy process in India is a joke.
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:37 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
The GOI has now changed. I feel like you are looking for loopholes to justify the GOI actions. If what you say are the facts, then the full process was even dumber than it looked to many of us. I mean which govt that owns the majority of the debt of an asset (remember GOI banks) lets the asset shut down and then takes 2 years to sell it (to recover its own money) to then say oh you thought you were buying X but it is really X minus 100. Please this makes the GOI look bad and the bankruptcy process in India is a joke.

I am not defending the govt here, infact, my point here is your last statement i.e this whole process was a joke.

If you sift through my posts, over the last few pages of this thread, you'd get what I have been trying to say.

I'm trying to make sense of this from a legal perspective, and how the sale was done was hidden with conditions. It was a formal process, yes, but it wasn't very precise over the slot issue from the start. And to understand it clearly, the airline doesn't "own" the slot, it's by way of historical precedence, by which they would have lost it by now. So as stated by another, it has been an evolving situation.
Ameya had a nice article over this, over how if they were to get slots and route rights back after two years, it would set a sort of precedence where airlines would keep going through bankruptcy proceedings and pop up after few years with new owners and suck back all the slots from other airlines every now and then. That wouldn't be fair on other airlines, employees and even pax.
 
DIJKKIJK
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:21 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
I was only reacting to the slots point. If the GOI is making exceptions in DEL and not BOM, I think it is a waste. DEL doesn't need another FSC. Let Jet die. And look the GOI has always meddled in business. I agree that government should butt out, but the GOI doesn't. That said, even the US govt tries to ensure there is connectivity at all major airports. Just having BOM-DEL shuttles doesn't serve BOM the best. But again I don't care. I think Jet should either die or let it come back the way it was.


You are talking about a Government which, till not too long ago, thought that the only places that planes can operate out of in India are Mumbai and Delhi. It took airlines based in Dusseldorf and Dubai to wake them up from their reverie.

Coming back to the point, yes, I agree that DEL doesn't need another FSC. But I wouldn't agree that the option is to let Jet die. They should be given some of their slots back and allowed to re-start operations. The market can then decide who stays and who perishes in the long run.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:51 am

DIJKKIJK wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
I was only reacting to the slots point. If the GOI is making exceptions in DEL and not BOM, I think it is a waste. DEL doesn't need another FSC. Let Jet die. And look the GOI has always meddled in business. I agree that government should butt out, but the GOI doesn't. That said, even the US govt tries to ensure there is connectivity at all major airports. Just having BOM-DEL shuttles doesn't serve BOM the best. But again I don't care. I think Jet should either die or let it come back the way it was.


You are talking about a Government which, till not too long ago, thought that the only places that planes can operate out of in India are Mumbai and Delhi. It took airlines based in Dusseldorf and Dubai to wake them up from their reverie.

Coming back to the point, yes, I agree that DEL doesn't need another FSC. But I wouldn't agree that the option is to let Jet die. They should be given some of their slots back and allowed to re-start operations. The market can then decide who stays and who perishes in the long run.


Is LH based in DUS? Well people in DUS hate the fact that only MUC and FRA have proper long haul connectivity by LH. LH bought air Berlin and basically shut down both Air Berlins long haul routes from Berlin and DUS as well as LH’s (that they started to kill Air Berlin). Airlines work though hubs. It is not a GOI conspiracy across both the congress and BJP. The best thing AI did was move their hub to DEL. Look at the connectivity and jobs that DEL got because of it. What we should blame the GOI and state gov for are super high fuel and other taxes.

On Jet, I don’t think they should let Jet die. The GOI should try and recoup as much of the tax payer’s money as possible through the sales of Jet’s assets which should include the slots (given the slots are owned by the GOI and the slots were granted to others as temporary). My point was either help Jet resume properly or let it die already. I think the consortium saying they get first priority on Jet’s slots (which I read to mean they need to launch flights by X date or they lose it) is fair. That said, I think the GOI has decided to let Jet die. They never thought a real bid would happen and when it did, the game was up. Waste of time and look the GOI got none of its loans back. But hey Spice got slots in BOM!
 
danipawa
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Sat May 22, 2021 11:55 am

Boeing 737 -8 44863 7085 2-JXEE GECAS ferried 22-23may21 COK-DEL-AZI-PRG (+ 44861/6973 2-JXAX HYD-DEL-AZI-PRG ex VT-JXA) ex VT-JXE

https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=4
 
NZ321
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Tue May 25, 2021 12:25 pm

I don't understand how, after such a long time not flying, this airline, as known (Jet Airways), can resurrect itself again from the dead! How is this possible? Lessors now taking aircraft back. How is it remotely possible this airline remains solvent?
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:25 am

trinidadeG wrote:
Both, the Resolution Professional and the winning bidder, pointed out that the 'returning of slots' was key to the resolution process, back when Kalrock won the bid. Technically, Kalrock can choose to bow out of the revival process.

the consortia’s plan is to restart the airline with a few additional narrow body planes in the next six months once the NCLT approval and slot assurance comes,” Ashish Chhawchharia, resolution professional (RP) for Jet, told TOI on Monday.


https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 761848.cms

However, since they've already made payments and set the ball rolling, Kalrock can shift to plan B i.e; a DEL based Full Service Carrier leveraging its old relations with KLM-AF to funnel NA/EU traffic into/out of India.)


Good to see that they're not giving up without a fight! They risk rubbing the ministry the wrong way, however..

Kalrock-Jalan spar with DGCA over Jet slots at NCLT

Then he brought up the fact that on multiple occasions after that, too, including in response to questions raised in the Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha, Minister of Civil Aviation, Hardeep Singh Puri, had said that the slots had been allotted temporarily and not permanently.


https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/co ... 782761.ece
 
hohd
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:50 pm

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 211463.cms

This may have been posted earlier, but according to this article dated June 3, DGCA has reiterated that Jet has no claim on it old slots. This could be final nail in the coffin for any bids.
 
JetAirways
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:14 pm

Update on the Jet Airways slot issue. It seems like they will be getting 170 slots as per the following articles:

https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/jet-a ... 729031.htm

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 009_1.html

It also seems like 9W 2.0 will be getting new leased aircraft with a mix of Airbus and Boeing aircraft. I checked the Boeing orders and delivery page and it seems like their order for 10 787s and 125 737 MAX still seems to be intact. (IIRC they were 787-9s and 737 MAX 8s as Boeing hasn't specified the variants)

Would be interesting to see if they do decide to use any of the older aircraft that they currently own which include 6 77W, 2 738 and 1 739 which are stored in India apart from one 77W (VT-JEW) that was impounded at AMS in April 2019.

My bet would be on the 77W as the CNBC-TV18 article states that their start up plan includes 5 wide-body aircraft and they have 5 77W in India currently that are being taken care of by Jet Airways Maintenance. However with the ex-LATAM A350-900s and plenty of 787-8/9s on the used market it could be more viable to get newer and more efficient aircraft.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:10 am

hohd wrote:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/jet-airways-has-no-right-on-its-old-slots-dgca-tells-bankruptcy-court/articleshow/83211463.cms

This may have been posted earlier, but according to this article dated June 3, DGCA has reiterated that Jet has no claim on it old slots. This could be final nail in the coffin for any bids.


It seems that Kalrock & Co. is not going to withdraw its bid for 9W because of the government's stance.
Instead, they seem willing to settle for suitable "alternate slots".

"While clarity on Jet Airways slots is likely to emerge with the National Company Law Tribunal order, the airline has indicated to the court and the regulator that it is open to alternate slots with a margin of 15 minutes plus or minus on an average if the requirement for a slot cannot be met on account of non-availability, CNBC-TV18 has learnt."

https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/jet-a ... 31.htm/amp

Some other interesting points from the article. Those 777s are definitely going away, then.

"The government has indicated that they want Jet Airways to revive. The interpretation for slots is subject to judicial review right now. The airline's current ask is for a right, not for a slot. If it gets the right, it can work with the regulator for a slot," a person aware of the matter said.
Rather than reinstating the old fleet comprising of B777, B737 and A330s, CNBC-TV18 has learnt that the airline plans to retire the entire existing fleet and replace it with new fuel-efficient aircraft which it plans to take on lease. The new fleet is expected to again be a combination of Airbus and Boeing planes, sources said.
 
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:51 pm

JetAirways wrote:


Good news indeed. Looking forward to see that livery in the sky again!
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:25 pm

JetAirways wrote:
Jet Airways' revival plan gets NCLT approval!

Getting NCLT approval is one thing and getting approvals from the relevant authorities yet another. They have to go through a whole host of processes to get their AOC active again.
Hope DGCA & MoCA are fair in granting these approvals and don't play to the benefit of their favourite other airline.

If Jet goes with sticking to the 737 fleet, expect a large movement of employees from that other airline over to Jet, since they haven't been their paying employees since a year.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:29 pm

If they're starting off with 20 aircraft, do they really need to take large number of crew from other airlines, though? A report in "The Hindu" newspaper last month mentioned that the company still had 240 pilots on its rolls.

"Its employee base has been reduced from more than 16,000 at the time of closure to 3,200, including 240 pilots, 110 engineers and 650 cabin crew members, now."

https://www.thehindu.com/business/Indus ... 670421.ece
 
hohd
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:40 pm

Will all the employees on the payroll get salaries from 2019. For these employees to be on the payroll, most of them will expect backpay and GoI should make sure that the new Jet will pay the employees back pay, not like Kingfisher which still owes employees salaries.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:22 pm

hohd wrote:
Will all the employees on the payroll get salaries from 2019. For these employees to be on the payroll, most of them will expect backpay and GoI should make sure that the new Jet will pay the employees back pay, not like Kingfisher which still owes employees salaries.

Interesting. Isn't the new owner liable to pay the bills (including salaries) only from the day company is out of bankruptcy, and they take over? With all previous debts needing to be covered by the assets of bankrupt estate?
Otherwise, the bankruptcy/NCLT process would make no sense, with bad debt haunting the new company forever....
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:34 pm

There is little to no chance of Jet 2.0 seeing light of day.

DGCA/MoCA approvals will take forever or never. India is land of selective laws, there will be aggressive rule shopping to make it not happen.

Even if DGCA approves, initial equity is not going to keep an airline running in India. It needs working capital from Indian public sector banks to survive. State Bank of India wouldn't mind smothering it with the pillow one more time.
 
DIJKKIJK
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:40 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
There is little to no chance of Jet 2.0 seeing light of day.

DGCA/MoCA approvals will take forever or never. India is land of selective laws, there will be aggressive rule shopping to make it not happen.

Even if DGCA approves, initial equity is not going to keep an airline running in India. It needs working capital from Indian public sector banks to survive. State Bank of India wouldn't mind smothering it with the pillow one more time.


DGCA/MoCA approvals can be got. I doubt Jalan/Kalrock got into this without knowing this much.

And if State Bank of India decides to smother it with a pillow, they can kiss a goodbye to the outstanding loans that Jet has defaulted on. Their only chance of recovering the money is to let Jet 2.0 resume operations.

Any Indian bank will give loans if the collateral is good, and it is up to Jalan/Kalrock to ensure that.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:50 pm

Also there are still some financial loose ends regarding the bankruptcy of 9W's European office that still needs to be addressed. Last week, their bankruptcy trustee recently released their 7th bi-annual public liquidation report

Source: https://www.potjonker.nl/faillissemente ... port-nr-7/
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:46 am

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Also there are still some financial loose ends regarding the bankruptcy of 9W's European office that still needs to be addressed. Last week, their bankruptcy trustee recently released their 7th bi-annual public liquidation report

Source: https://www.potjonker.nl/faillissemente ... port-nr-7/


Thanks for this! The report does mention that some effort was made earlier this year to sell that B777 aircraft. A seven-member monitoring committee has been set up to oversee the execution of the Resolution plan. Maybe the Dutch issues will be resolved too, soon?

https://www.freepressjournal.in/busines ... activities
 
JetAirways
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:43 pm

Seems like things are progressing with Jet Airways revival and they have started recruiting pilots:

https://twitter.com/jetairways/status/1 ... 45255?s=20

It also seems like the same livery that has been in use since 2007 will be used as per the above tweet and Boeing 737 MAXs possibly?

Any idea what aircraft are they going to be using? Sticking with a predominantly Boeing fleet presumably? They still have 3 737s as per planespotters, 2 -800s and 1 -900 along with 6 77Ws which could be used at a later stage but do not seem to be in good condition what so ever at least the ones stored at DEL. The ones at BOM seem to be cared for.

77W (VT-JET @ DEL) : https://www.instagram.com/reel/CPTOYkdB ... =copy_link

77W (VT-JEV @ BOM) : https://www.instagram.com/p/CR9gHf-DER4 ... =copy_link
 
binayak
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:05 am

JetAirways wrote:
Seems like things are progressing with Jet Airways revival and they have started recruiting pilots:

https://twitter.com/jetairways/status/1 ... 45255?s=20

It also seems like the same livery that has been in use since 2007 will be used as per the above tweet and Boeing 737 MAXs possibly?

Any idea what aircraft are they going to be using? Sticking with a predominantly Boeing fleet presumably? They still have 3 737s as per planespotters, 2 -800s and 1 -900 along with 6 77Ws which could be used at a later stage but do not seem to be in good condition what so ever at least the ones stored at DEL. The ones at BOM seem to be cared for.

77W (VT-JET @ DEL) : https://www.instagram.com/reel/CPTOYkdB ... =copy_link

77W (VT-JEV @ BOM) : https://www.instagram.com/p/CR9gHf-DER4 ... =copy_link


IF, a big if, jet airways sees the light of the day, they should start with some of the 737NGs. The MAX can be ordered later. Flying those 77Ws make no sense now in 2021 as the product is outdated, not to mention their condition after not being flown for so long. Few leased 787s will be good enough. The management can think about branding and product development later.
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:53 am

JetAirways wrote:
It also seems like the same livery that has been in use since 2007 will be used as per the above tweet and Boeing 737 MAXs possibly?

Any idea what aircraft are they going to be using? Sticking with a predominantly Boeing fleet presumably?


All sources have mentioned Boeing right from the start. Even the latest reporting of few days back mention they going to start with 20 737 MAX and a few 787's later. I'm guessing the 20 figure for the 737MAX is so they can meet the requirement to fly international soon.
https://twitter.com/ETNOWlive/status/14 ... 9719107586

What's more interesting to know is what base they'd select for their ops. It can't be BOM for sure. DEL might have very limited space to accommodate them. BLR makes the most sense to start off with.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:59 am

Jalan did say that their 'first base' would be in Delhi.
I don't think DEL will have problems in accommodating 20 B737s at this moment. Also, once all LCC traffic shifts to T1, the airport operator intends to expand capacity by building the planned T4.
 
binayak
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:20 am

avier wrote:

All sources have mentioned Boeing right from the start. Even the latest reporting of few days back mention they going to start with 20 737 MAX and a few 787's later. I'm guessing the 20 figure for the 737MAX is so they can meet the requirement to fly international soon.
https://twitter.com/ETNOWlive/status/14 ... 9719107586

What's more interesting to know is what base they'd select for their ops. It can't be BOM for sure. DEL might have very limited space to accommodate them. BLR makes the most sense to start off with.


What happened to the slot issue which Kalrock-Jalan had raised regarding 9W's old slots being returned back to the airline?
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:17 pm

The court has ruled that Kalrock-Jalan & Co. will have to apply afresh for slots.

https://www.financialexpress.com/indust ... s/2276521/
 
binayak
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:55 am

9W 2.0 has inaugurated its office in Delhi which seems to be the new HQ for the airline now. Good in a way as they have apply for new slots which will be available at DEL.
 
AMP44
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:14 am

JetAirways wrote:
It also seems like the same livery that has been in use since 2007 will be used as per the above tweet and Boeing 737 MAXs possibly?


No need to fix what's not broken. Landor did a great job on the livery and still holds today. I think they should allocate their resources to more pressing issues than going for a new branding and livery.

However those aircraft will need a completely fresh coat of paint, and a new modern cabin to better compete. I do remember they managed to retrofit Thompson Vantage seats on an A330, which was a step forward from the older seats.
 
RoyalBrunei757
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:03 pm

Read some where there is a dispute on the employee gratuity, which the new owner does not recognise. It is stated that to pay those gratuity it would need another Rs1.2 crore, but the new owner offered a much lower amount.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:54 pm

AMP44 wrote:
However those aircraft will need a completely fresh coat of paint, and a new modern cabin to better compete. I do remember they managed to retrofit Thompson Vantage seats on an A330, which was a step forward from the older seats.


They won't be using any of the old aircraft, apparently.
I suppose its cheaper to scrap the old fleet and lease new, fuel-efficient aircraft with modern interiors.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:46 pm

So finally, the Boeing 777 which was impounded in AMS has been sold. Funds will be first used to achieve closure of Dutch Insolvency Process.


“This is now to inform that as per the information received from the Dutch Administrator, the equipment (the aircraft) under the custody of the Dutch Administrator has been sold to IAGCAS 777, LLC, for USD 9-million under the Dutch Insolvency Process,” Jet Airways Monitoring Committee-authorised representative, Ashish Chhawchharia, said in the company’s regulatory filing".

https://www.financialexpress.com/indust ... s/2324061/
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:24 pm

binayak wrote:
9W 2.0 has inaugurated its office in Delhi which seems to be the new HQ for the airline now. Good in a way as they have apply for new slots which will be available at DEL.


Holly Conolly, I assumed Jet 2.0 would be a non starter as it makes no sense given the intense competive environment, COVID-19, banks unwilling to lend and burn their hands again, etc.
 
AngMoh
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:16 am

Jet Airways announces restart of domestic operations in Q1 2020. Although to me it is more like most of the Eastern Airlines and Pan-Am reincarnations: building a new airline using an old name.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/busines ... 22-2173946
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:21 pm

Jet Airways 2.0 is to commence ops in March 2022, with its first flight to be most likely DEL-BOM.

The new airline will have its HQ at Gurugram (New Delhi) with its crew training facility in Mumbai (one of the former Jet's property).

They have hired 150+ employees so far, most from the erstwhile Jet, with aims to hire about 1000 employees within the first year of operations.

They intend to have 50+ aircraft in 3 years and 100+ in 5 years.

https://m.timesofindia.com/business/ind ... 159685.cms
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:30 pm

AngMoh wrote:
Jet Airways announces restart of domestic operations in Q1 2020. Although to me it is more like most of the Eastern Airlines and Pan-Am reincarnations: building a new airline using an old name.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/busines ... 22-2173946

This one is not at all comparable to those attempted reincarnations in the US.

Those airlines tried to come up years to decades later just using the brand name on other AOC's. Most of the employees had moved on too, and nothing of the original airlines remained in any form apart from brand.

In the case of 9W, it's been about two years since the former airline collapsed, and a large number of the former employees are keen to join back either because they are still unemployed or have been laid off due covid (from Middle eastern airlines/other foreign airlines in East Asia) or are being treated poorly by not receiving their wages since start of pandemic (at another Indian LCC that took a large chunk of Jet employees).

The AOC, in this case, is that of the original airline, they have some former planes and property along with former managers too.

An organisation is made of its people, so if you're getting back most of them you're getting a lot from the original former entity and brand.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:37 am

Jet Airways has planned to resume operations with six 737MAX aircraft.
List of 14 initial destinations includes Bengaluru, Chennai, Delhi, Mumbai, Ahmedabad, Hyderabad, Goa, Guwahati, Mangalore, Aurangabad, Aizawl, Kolkata, Nagpur and Dehradun.

https://www.newindianexpress.com/cities ... 366998.amp
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Jet Airways: News and Discussion Thread

Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:24 am

What can 9W 2.0 do with five B777s? Lease them to TATAs Air India?

India's Jet Airways volte-faces on B777 plans - CH Aviation

Contrary to earlier indications that it would abandon the type, Jet Airways (JAI, Mumbai Int'l) is now contemplating reactivating some of its owned B777-300(ER)s when it restarts, a source told The Economic Times.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... b777-plans

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