behramjee
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 23, 2019 5:31 pm

FYI talks collapsed between Hinduja and Etihad

https://wap.business-standard.com/artic ... 873_1.html
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 23, 2019 5:39 pm

ssreekanth2000 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

Could also be why the Hindujas were chosen. I wonder if their govt connections are BJP or Congress. If BJP, then this plan seems more likely IMHO

If real, Jet could be running soon.

But as to SpiceJet in a world of trouble? Why? Yes, yields will drop faster. But the aircraft and pilots are already under contract. Perhaps a few pilots will defect back, but that is why airlines have them sign a bond.

The major impact is that India will quickly go from pilot surplus back to pilot shortage. Cest la vie.

I wonder where the new Jet will get narrowbody aircraft.

Lightsaber



Probably take delivery of their pending MAXs if they are back in the air by then?

Boeing officially cancelled the MAX order. I suspect due to not timely securing financing. They are only on the books as a legal claim by Boeing.

Boeing would help a new Jet, but those MAX slots were cancelled to accommodate the LEAP engine shortage. I suspect there will be a MAX order, but when will the first delivery take place?

Lightsaber
You know nothing John Snow.
 
binayak
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 23, 2019 6:08 pm

behramjee wrote:
FYI talks collapsed between Hinduja and Etihad

https://wap.business-standard.com/artic ... 873_1.html


It's hilarious to see 2 newspapers quoting different outcomes of the same meeting!
https://t.co/Yf1bNBCayA

https://t.co/hmNE0b6KvY
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
avier
Posts: 806
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 23, 2019 6:14 pm

Is it the end for Jet? One airline is particularly gleeful about today's awesome outcome.

Image
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 998
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 23, 2019 6:19 pm

avier wrote:
Is it the end for Jet? One airline is particularly gleeful about today's awesome outcome.

Image


I think Modi has been good for India, but this Spice Jet ad is just too much. I mean can't they keep their connections quiet. Plus what goes around comes around
 
zuckie13
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 23, 2019 6:30 pm

binayak wrote:
behramjee wrote:
FYI talks collapsed between Hinduja and Etihad

https://wap.business-standard.com/artic ... 873_1.html


It's hilarious to see 2 newspapers quoting different outcomes of the same meeting!
https://t.co/Yf1bNBCayA

https://t.co/hmNE0b6KvY


Not really. One is quoting the same speculative stuff that someone posted yesterday before the meeting took place. The other says they met and no dice.
 
avier
Posts: 806
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 23, 2019 7:05 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
I think Modi has been good for India, but this Spice Jet ad is just too much. I mean can't they keep their connections quiet. Plus what goes around comes around

It's going to be exciting ahead to see what the continuing govt. truly decides on Jet, now that the whole elections are over. Also how Spice pans out, and more importantly what happens to Air India. Also, IndiGo per latest data has reached 50% (49.9 precisely) market share. Something's got to keep it in check. Interesting times ahead. Afterall, aviation doesn't exist in a vacuum and these events greatly influence the outcome of the industry and its players.
 
mandyhaslott
Posts: 23
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 23, 2019 7:25 pm

Why is he "Shri"? he's not a God

CaliguyNYC wrote:
avier wrote:
Is it the end for Jet? One airline is particularly gleeful about today's awesome outcome.

Image


I think Modi has been good for India, but this Spice Jet ad is just too much. I mean can't they keep their connections quiet. Plus what goes around comes around
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 23, 2019 7:38 pm

mandyhaslott wrote:
Why is he "Shri"? he's not a God

CaliguyNYC wrote:
avier wrote:
Is it the end for Jet? One airline is particularly gleeful about today's awesome outcome.

Image


I think Modi has been good for India, but this Spice Jet ad is just too much. I mean can't they keep their connections quiet. Plus what goes around comes around


And who told you one has to be a god to be addressed as Shri? Lol. Similarly Smt. before a respectable woman.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 998
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 23, 2019 8:25 pm

lightsaber wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
sibibom wrote:
This is for real? I hope they can get it up and running ASAP, suddenly SpiceJet is the one who will be in a world of trouble.......


Could also be why the Hindujas were chosen. I wonder if their govt connections are BJP or Congress. If BJP, then this plan seems more likely IMHO

If real, Jet could be running soon.

But as to SpiceJet in a world of trouble? Why? Yes, yields will drop faster. But the aircraft and pilots are already under contract. Perhaps a few pilots will defect back, but that is why airlines have them sign a bond.

The major impact is that India will quickly go from pilot surplus back to pilot shortage. Cest la vie.

I wonder where the new Jet will get narrowbody aircraft.

Lightsaber


Wouldn't they go after their old planes. The slots were given away until October of 2019. My guess is Spice eat all did leases until Oct 2019. Will they get all back, no. But they will get enough to get their BOM hub back and running. That said, we are still far away from JEt coming back. Lot needs too happen. Could the Spice ad congratulating Modi be to grease the wheel given the Hinduja news? This is the problem with crony capitalism. It is never based on business cases, just favors.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1133
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 23, 2019 11:29 pm

avier wrote:
Is it the end for Jet? One airline is particularly gleeful about today's awesome outcome.

Image

Superb ad but fraught with political risk. Look how badly ANIL Ambani fared after being on the receiving end and that too from a loser politician
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7071
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri May 24, 2019 1:09 pm

I think Jet is done for good. Chance of revival is 0.001%
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 998
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri May 24, 2019 1:13 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
I think Jet is done for good. Chance of revival is 0.001%


I agree with you but per this article seems like the politicking will continue. Truth is india won’t recover Jets jobs allocated to foreign flying. The LCCs will just focus on DXB and a few other cities

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.moneyc ... 1.html/amp
 
Antarius
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri May 24, 2019 1:16 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
I think Jet is done for good. Chance of revival is 0.001%


No longer fake news, huh?

FTR, this has been true for months.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD MEL DEN BLR MAA DEL KTM YYZ MEX
 
sibibom
Posts: 360
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:04 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri May 24, 2019 2:31 pm

lightsaber wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
sibibom wrote:
This is for real? I hope they can get it up and running ASAP, suddenly SpiceJet is the one who will be in a world of trouble.......


Could also be why the Hindujas were chosen. I wonder if their govt connections are BJP or Congress. If BJP, then this plan seems more likely IMHO

If real, Jet could be running soon.

But as to SpiceJet in a world of trouble? Why? Yes, yields will drop faster. But the aircraft and pilots are already under contract. Perhaps a few pilots will defect back, but that is why airlines have them sign a bond.

The major impact is that India will quickly go from pilot surplus back to pilot shortage. Cest la vie.

I wonder where the new Jet will get narrowbody aircraft.
Lightsaber


SpiceJet has doubled their fleet, mostly with premium aircraft which in case no slots in BOM or DEL will be a burden. Not sure what the lease terms and tenures are.

Having said that chances of Jet's revival is still zero imo, unless someone has few billion $ to throw away.
 
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Viman
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 2:15 pm

Naresh Goyal and wife were trying to flee from India, Emirates 777 was stopped after push back had taken place and both of them were de-boarded.

Ha Ha Ha !! Now where are all the Naresh Goyal fanboys? Hopefully you will come back here from USA/UK/Canada ASAP to save your beloved Naresh Chacha :)

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 497193.cms
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1133
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 2:54 pm

Only in India can one arbitrarily decide a person can't fly. There are no charges against him. They really have no right to hold him back. While it may seem like I am defending chacha, I am not. I am a rules-based persons. That is the essence in any civilized society.

File the charges, then, if warranted, arrest him. Not, arrest him, and then make up charges for the arrest.

I think what happened here is that the Government didn't want to take a chance -- Vijay Mallya left presumably before charges were filed. Instead of fixing the system so it doesn't happen again (i.e., frame charges first); the Government is again putting the cart before the horse. In the US, he would have walked, because of wrongful detention and any subsequent charges would have been thrown out on the grounds that a prejudicial intent existed --- i.e., find someone you want to arrest and subsequently make up charges to justify the arrest.

Update:
Now here is what he is being accused of: "Violations of Foreign Direct Investment MAY (emphasis added) have taken place when the Emirates took a stake in JPPL in 2014.

Only in India, you could be detained from travelling because someone thinks something "may" have happened.
Last edited by edealinfo on Sat May 25, 2019 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2053
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 2:55 pm

Viman wrote:
Naresh Goyal and wife were trying to flee from India, Emirates 777 was stopped after push back had taken place and both of them were de-boarded.

Ha Ha Ha !! Now where are all the Naresh Goyal fanboys? Hopefully you will come back here from USA/UK/Canada ASAP to save your beloved Naresh Chacha :)

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 497193.cms


Wowwwwiieee!! One more reason why Modi govt is the best though the due credit needs to be given to immigration officials who took the last minute decision.

I don't think there's any court order as such to prevent him from flying abroad but Banks or CBI might have raised objection with immigration department or the home ministry

Whatever great to see govt is very vigilant about preventing another Mallaya or Nirav Modi
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2053
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 2:57 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Only in India can one arbitrarily decide a person can't fly. There are no charges against him. They really have no right to hold him back. While it may seem like I am defending chacha, I am not. I am a rules-based persons. That is the essence in any civilized society.

File the charges, then, if warranted, arrest him. Not, arrest him, and then make up charges for the arrest.

I think what happened here is that the Government didn't want to take a chance -- Vijay Mallya left presumably before charges were filed. Instead of fixing the system so it doesn't happen again (i.e., frame charges first); the Government is again putting the cart before the horse. In the US, he would have walked, because of wrongful detention and any subsequent charges would have been thrown out on the grounds that a prejudicial intent existed --- i.e., find someone you want to arrest and subsequently make up charges to justify the arrest.



Not really!! Turns out according to a recent law bank CEOs can stop loan defaulters from flying abroad. So it's pretty legal

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.financ ... 0434/lite/
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1133
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 3:02 pm

anshabhi wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Not really!! Turns out according to a recent law bank CEOs can stop loan defaulters from flying abroad. So it's pretty legal

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.financ ... 0434/lite/


That would be a good argument is that is indeed the case. But, it is not. Naresh Goyal has NOT been formally deemed a "willful defaulter" -- there is a legal definition and a process for which someone officially is classified a willful defaulter. [he has not]

AGAIN, what's happening here is quite evident. The Government doesn't want him to leave for charges that could possibly be framed. They think he MAY have committed something wrong OR, and more likely, they need a scapegoat for a high profile company that has failed [and they will conjure some charges]. For example -- a violation of Etihad's investment in Jet or Jet Privilege never mind that the Government actually approved the investment!
Last edited by edealinfo on Sat May 25, 2019 3:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
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B747fanReal
Posts: 33
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 3:03 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Only in India can one arbitrarily decide a person can't fly. There are no charges against him. They really have no right to hold him back. While it may seem like I am defending chacha, I am not. I am a rules-based persons. That is the essence in any civilized society.

File the charges, then, if warranted, arrest him. Not, arrest him, and then make up charges for the arrest.

I think what happened here is that the Government didn't want to take a chance -- Vijay Mallya left presumably before charges were filed. Instead of fixing the system so it doesn't happen again (i.e., frame charges first); the Government is again putting the cart before the horse. In the US, he would have walked, because of wrongful detention and any subsequent charges would have been thrown out on the grounds that a prejudicial intent existed --- i.e., find someone you want to arrest and subsequently make up charges to justify the arrest.

Update:
Now here is what he is being accused of: "Violations of Foreign Direct Investment MAY (emphasis added) have taken place when the Emirates took a stake in JPPL in 2014.

Only in India, you could be detained from travelling because someone thinks something "may" have happened.

Etihad not Emirates


Sent from my iPhone XS MAX using Tapatalk
 
anshabhi
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 3:16 pm

edealinfo wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Not really!! Turns out according to a recent law bank CEOs can stop loan defaulters from flying abroad. So it's pretty legal

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.financ ... 0434/lite/


That would be a good argument is that is indeed the case. But, it is not. Naresh Goyal has NOT been formally deemed a "willful defaulter" -- there is a legal definition and a process for which someone officially is classified a willful defaulter. [he has not]

AGAIN, what's happening here is quite evident. The Government doesn't want him to leave for charges that could possibly be framed. They think he MAY have committed something wrong, and they need a scapegoat for a high profile company that has failed.



Do you remember how he was once ready to bid for reviving Jet Airways? That could mean he could mean he may revive Jet with his existing resources but he doesn't want to and that makes him a potential wilful defaulter.
This definition can be found in this govt document:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... qlkxQoGHD7

This much should be enough to produce a lookout notice.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1133
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 3:20 pm

AirAsia India gives up its proposal to take over ex-Jet B737 aircraft. perhaps this is a good move but this also means they will lose out on an opportunity to grab Jet's prime slots at BOM, DEL and Pune.

https://www.ndtv.com/business/air-asia- ... rt-2043014
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1133
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 3:26 pm

anshabhi wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
anshabhi wrote:

Do you remember how he was once ready to bid for reviving Jet Airways? That could mean he could mean he may revive Jet with his existing resources but he doesn't want to and that makes him a potential wilful defaulter.
This definition can be found in this govt document:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... qlkxQoGHD7

This much should be enough to produce a lookout notice.


I really don't understand you. He is personally not a wilful defaulter. At best, his company could be a willful defaulter. In business there is a difference between an individual (investor) and a company (comprising 1 or more invetsors' money). A company is set up as a limited liability company wherein the investors liability is limited to their investment in shares of the company.

For instance, if you invest in 100 shares of ONGC and tomorrow ONGC goes bankrupt, that doesn't mean you (as an individual investor) are also a willful defaulter by reason of ONGC's bankruptcy for which it is a willful defaulter.

Your kind of reasoning leads me to believe that the Indian authorities are also using such faulty logical reasoning, and will conjure anything that they think MAY stick.

The funny thing is that say in 10 or 15 years from now when the political tides change, and another party might be in power, it will be SpiceJet on the receiving end of that same faulty reasoning.
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2053
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 3:37 pm

edealinfo wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Do you remember how he was once ready to bid for reviving Jet Airways? That could mean he could mean he may revive Jet with his existing resources but he doesn't want to and that makes him a potential wilful defaulter.
This definition can be found in this govt document:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... qlkxQoGHD7

This much should be enough to produce a lookout notice.


I really don't understand you. He is personally not a wilful defaulter. At best, his company could be a willful defaulter. In business there is a difference between an individual (investor) and a company (comprising 1 or more invetsors' money). A company is set up as a limited liability company wherein the investors liability is limited to their investment in shares of the company.

For instance, if you invest in 100 shares of ONGC and tomorrow ONGC goes bankrupt, that doesn't mean you (as an individual investor) are also a willful defaulter by reason of ONGC's bankruptcy for which it is a willful defaulter.

Your kind of reasoning leads me to believe that the Indian authorities are also using such faulty logical reasoning, and will conjure anything that they think MAY stick.

The funny thing is that say in 10 or 15 years from now when another party might be in power, it will be SpiceJet on the receiving end of that same faulty reasoning.


Have you heard about something called "managing director of a company"?
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1133
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 3:59 pm

anshabhi wrote:

Have you heard about something called "managing director of a company"?


Yeah, it is not the company itself. Naresh was not the MD but the Chairman. Again an individual, not the company. The company's debts are not his own. Business 101. There are no charges files against him and he has not been found guilty of a crime.

presumably in a country like India, where a rules based system doesn't apply (and is actually cheered on by some), your faulty critical reasoning could fly.
Last edited by edealinfo on Sat May 25, 2019 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1133
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 4:12 pm

The ex-CEO of Jet (Vinod Dube) should get out of India ASAP before idiots start calling for his arrest because the company has not paid salaries. Oh, wait a minute that has already happened....except that the Government has not yet acted on it. He should leave nonetheless because the Government, people, and employees may not be satisfied with just one scapegoat.
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2053
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 4:27 pm

They were carrying 68 kg luggage

Image

Probably set for a very very long vacation

^^ Atleast rant the right name. It's Vinay Dube
 
zionite
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:18 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 4:36 pm

There's a term known as Key Management Personnel (KMP) in Companies Act - Managing Directors, Whole-time Directors, CEO, CFO, Company Secretary etc. KMP take the financial and legal decisions for the company and are held liable for functioning of the company. This is irrespective of number of shares held by them or type of company (LLP, private or public limited).

Other directors and chairman of the board, are also liable if found to be involved in the wrong decision making..


edealinfo wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Do you remember how he was once ready to bid for reviving Jet Airways? That could mean he could mean he may revive Jet with his existing resources but he doesn't want to and that makes him a potential wilful defaulter.
This definition can be found in this govt document:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... qlkxQoGHD7

This much should be enough to produce a lookout notice.


I really don't understand you. He is personally not a wilful defaulter. At best, his company could be a willful defaulter. In business there is a difference between an individual (investor) and a company (comprising 1 or more invetsors' money). A company is set up as a limited liability company wherein the investors liability is limited to their investment in shares of the company.

For instance, if you invest in 100 shares of ONGC and tomorrow ONGC goes bankrupt, that doesn't mean you (as an individual investor) are also a willful defaulter by reason of ONGC's bankruptcy for which it is a willful defaulter.

Your kind of reasoning leads me to believe that the Indian authorities are also using such faulty logical reasoning, and will conjure anything that they think MAY stick.

The funny thing is that say in 10 or 15 years from now when the political tides change, and another party might be in power, it will be SpiceJet on the receiving end of that same faulty reasoning.
 
User avatar
trinidadeG
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:43 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 4:55 pm

B747fanReal wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Update:
Now here is what he is being accused of: "Violations of Foreign Direct Investment MAY (emphasis added) have taken place when the Emirates took a stake in JPPL in 2014.

Etihad not Emirates


Sent from my iPhone XS MAX using Tapatalk


"The Emirates".

Referring to the country (UAE)- not the (Dubai based) airline.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1133
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 5:19 pm

anshabhi wrote:
They were carrying 68 kg luggage

Image

Probably set for a very very long vacation

^^ Atleast rant the right name. It's Vinay Dube

You are so petty that you are even talking about their luggage weight. First , many economy passengers carry 2 large bags per persons and if it is 2 passengers that would be 4 bags..,that’s about 200 pounds or roughly 90kgs. And that is normal. You just made a normal situation into an unusual one. This kind of approach is usually called a “witch-hunt “

What’s next... you go through their baggage and find that she has Victoria Secret underwear and not the Kajori or whatever brand Indian underwear and the therefore conclude they must be guilty?
 
avier
Posts: 806
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 5:48 pm

edealinfo wrote:
I think what happened here is that the Government didn't want to take a chance -- Vijay Mallya left presumably before charges were filed. Instead of fixing the system so it doesn't happen again (i.e., frame charges first); the Government is again putting the cart before the horse.

To note : Though KF shutdown in the UPA regime, Mallya fled under the NDA regime in 2016, and so NDA govt ended up receiving a lot of flak for the same. To the point where the latter govt. was accused of aiding thieves leaving the country like Mallay and Nirav. Even though their misdeeds were done during the previous party's rule.
So this time, they are being extra cautious with an airline that shutdown during their regime, and keeping a vigilant eye on their main owner.

However, rules regarding an insolvent company and their owners becoming criminals by default then is actually confusing. It's almost as if, your company going bankrupt makes you a criminal, since you cannot repay what you owe. But again it's the company, and not the individual to be confused with.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1133
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 6:14 pm

I am sure karma would have eventually got to Naresh Goyal ( to a large extent it did with the end of his company) .
Going after him in a wrongful way will only buy him some good karma
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1133
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 6:17 pm

zionite wrote:
There's a term known as Key Management Personnel (KMP) in Companies Act - Managing Directors, Whole-time Directors, CEO, CFO, Company Secretary etc. KMP take the financial and legal decisions for the company and are held liable for functioning of the company. This is irrespective of number of shares held by them or type of company (LLP, private or public limited).

Other directors and chairman of the board, are also liable if found to be involved in the wrong

Do they same rules apply for wrong decision making in government? For instance, who has to be held accountable for the fiasco of demobilization? So, you are advocating for Moody to go to jail for that?

What’s good for the goose must be good for the gander. If you don’t understand the expression, type it on Google search.
 
zionite
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:18 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 7:04 pm

Let's discuss demonetization, elections, EVM tampering, Brexit, Iraq war for WMD, climate change etc stuff in non-aviation section - which I don't read on an aviation specific forum.

However, you are not from India. I am, so no know some laws here. Although my company is not as big as Jet Airways, I've been a whole-time Director & CFO of the Indian subsidiary of a US company from 7 years. So I know how much I'm liable if my company defaults or break any of the statutory rules.

The last 5 years of "Moody" was a roller coaster ride. Those with "faint hearts" like you had problems, however for most, it did churn their stomach but overall the ride was "fun" and now they have elected to go back for next ride. And yes, I did make a mistake in choosing a merry-go-round ride 15 and 10 years ago.


edealinfo wrote:
zionite wrote:
There's a term known as Key Management Personnel (KMP) in Companies Act - Managing Directors, Whole-time Directors, CEO, CFO, Company Secretary etc. KMP take the financial and legal decisions for the company and are held liable for functioning of the company. This is irrespective of number of shares held by them or type of company (LLP, private or public limited).

Other directors and chairman of the board, are also liable if found to be involved in the wrong

Do they same rules apply for wrong decision making in government? For instance, who has to be held accountable for the fiasco of demobilization? So, you are advocating for Moody to go to jail for that?

What’s good for the goose must be good for the gander. If you don’t understand the expression, type it on Google search.
 
vadodara
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 7:09 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Only in India can one arbitrarily decide a person can't fly. There are no charges against him. They really have no right to hold him back. While it may seem like I am defending chacha, I am not. I am a rules-based persons. That is the essence in any civilized society.
.......

Only in India, you could be detained from travelling because someone thinks something "may" have happened.


Have you checked how many employeess have unpaid salaries? NG should have sold or shutdown when he could.

Now all the IOU’s are his to deal with. His last hope of ‘favorable’ election results did not materialize.

Sorry only in India 20 yrs ago one could formulate such a business plan. Aab ki baar, don’t have a Chidambaram business plan.
 
edealinfo
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 9:03 pm

vadodara wrote:
Have you checked how many employeess have unpaid salaries? NG should have sold or shutdown when he could.


No work, no pay! Jet effectively shut down in February/March whereas the 10K+ employees still expect to be paid. Sorry, that no longer works, EVEN in India.

NG's decision whether to sell his shares, or not, was entirely his personal decision much the same as whether your decision is to keep or sell your Reliance shares. Reliance employee salaries are not based on whether Mukesh Ambani buys or sells Reliance shares -- it is rather based on the performance of his company.

I think you lack the basic knowledge about what it means to be an investor in a company.......and the demarcation of "personal" and "company". If NG sold his shares it would have been a good decision, and if not, in hindsight, it is a bad decision. Decisions are made all the time. No one wins 100% of the time. You can't detain someone just because they are not right, all the time. It is just bad for business and the rule of the mob as opposed to rule of the law. Again, NG hasn't been found or charged with a crime. Detention based solely on the suspicion that someone "may" have committed a crime is not right (e.g. and this supposedly relates to Etihad's investment in Jet, which ironically the Government approved).

Vinay Dubey should leave India ASAP.

Etihad will no longer invest a dime in Jet. heck, they are trying to pull Jet out of a hole and the Government is now questioning their initial investment in Jet. This also leads me to believe that there are people (competitors) hellbent on ensuring Jet never resurrects (never mind there was a rat's chance of that happening in the first place).
 
Antarius
Posts: 1425
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sat May 25, 2019 9:59 pm

edealinfo wrote:
This also leads me to believe that there are people (competitors) hellbent on ensuring Jet never resurrects (never mind there was a rat's chance of that happening in the first place).


No competitor anywhere who is feasting on the carcass of the deceased, would root for necromancy.
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vadodara
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun May 26, 2019 2:26 am

edealinfo wrote:
[
G's decision whether to sell his shares, or not, was entirely his personal decision much the same as whether your decision is to keep or sell your Reliance shares. Reliance employee salaries are not based on whether Mukesh Ambani buys or sells Reliance shares -- it is rather based on the performance of his company.

I think you lack the basic knowledge about what it means to be an investor in a company.......and the demarcation of "personal" and "company". If NG sold his shares it would have been a good decision, and if not, in hindsight, it is a ).
.


Hmm yes his personal decision; now he should be personally held accountable for his bounced checks.
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2053
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun May 26, 2019 3:06 am

edealinfo wrote:
vadodara wrote:
Have you checked how many employeess have unpaid salaries? NG should have sold or shutdown when he could.


No work, no pay! Jet effectively shut down in February/March whereas the 10K+ employees still expect to be paid. Sorry, that no longer works, EVEN in India.

NG's decision whether to sell his shares, or not, was entirely his personal decision much the same as whether your decision is to keep or sell your Reliance shares. Reliance employee salaries are not based on whether Mukesh Ambani buys or sells Reliance shares -- it is rather based on the performance of his company.

I think you lack the basic knowledge about what it means to be an investor in a company.......and the demarcation of "personal" and "company". If NG sold his shares it would have been a good decision, and if not, in hindsight, it is a bad decision. Decisions are made all the time. No one wins 100% of the time. You can't detain someone just because they are not right, all the time. It is just bad for business and the rule of the mob as opposed to rule of the law. Again, NG hasn't been found or charged with a crime. Detention based solely on the suspicion that someone "may" have committed a crime is not right (e.g. and this supposedly relates to Etihad's investment in Jet, which ironically the Government approved).

Vinay Dubey should leave India ASAP.

Etihad will no longer invest a dime in Jet. heck, they are trying to pull Jet out of a hole and the Government is now questioning their initial investment in Jet. This also leads me to believe that there are people (competitors) hellbent on ensuring Jet never resurrects (never mind there was a rat's chance of that happening in the first place).


Going by your logic the quickest way to riches would be take millions in loans from Bank, siphon off the funds and run away!! Cause the company did something wrong, not me and I don't owe any responsibility at all!!

There are different rules for promoters to sell their shares. They don't own 100 shares of their organisation. It runs up in millions of share and more and they have to follow SEBI guidelines for selling them through open offers. Selling a million shares on stock markets construes dumping and invites strict legal action
 
5NFGS
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:14 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun May 26, 2019 12:56 pm

anshabhi wrote:
They were carrying 68 kg luggage

Image

Probably set for a very very long vacation

^^ Atleast rant the right name. It's Vinay Dube


Lording it over the peasants from 1st class as you and your wife escape to your stashed loot while people died due to your recklessness and mismanagement?!

NG needs to go to jail for a bit.

Same with Vijay

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edealinfo
Posts: 1133
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun May 26, 2019 2:30 pm

anshabhi wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
vadodara wrote:
Have you checked how many employeess have unpaid salaries? NG should have sold or shutdown when he could.


No work, no pay! Jet effectively shut down in February/March whereas the 10K+ employees still expect to be paid. Sorry, that no longer works, EVEN in India.

NG's decision whether to sell his shares, or not, was entirely his personal decision much the same as whether your decision is to keep or sell your Reliance shares. Reliance employee salaries are not based on whether Mukesh Ambani buys or sells Reliance shares -- it is rather based on the performance of his company.

I think you lack the basic knowledge about what it means to be an investor in a company.......and the demarcation of "personal" and "company". If NG sold his shares it would have been a good decision, and if not, in hindsight, it is a bad decision. Decisions are made all the time. No one wins 100% of the time. You can't detain someone just because they are not right, all the time. It is just bad for business and the rule of the mob as opposed to rule of the law. Again, NG hasn't been found or charged with a crime. Detention based solely on the suspicion that someone "may" have committed a crime is not right (e.g. and this supposedly relates to Etihad's investment in Jet, which ironically the Government approved).

Vinay Dubey should leave India ASAP.

Etihad will no longer invest a dime in Jet. heck, they are trying to pull Jet out of a hole and the Government is now questioning their initial investment in Jet. This also leads me to believe that there are people (competitors) hellbent on ensuring Jet never resurrects (never mind there was a rat's chance of that happening in the first place).


Going by your logic the quickest way to riches would be take millions in loans from Bank, siphon off the funds and run away!! Cause the company did something wrong, not me and I don't owe any responsibility at all!!

There are different rules for promoters to sell their shares. They don't own 100 shares of their organisation. It runs up in millions of share and more and they have to follow SEBI guidelines for selling them through open offers. Selling a million shares on stock markets construes dumping and invites strict legal action


Err, if all you allegations true why hasn't there been a single FIR filed for racketeering, money laundering , etc? NOT ONCE in 25 years. Sadly the mentality is one of the mob where individuals decide on guilt, not a court of law. It would be unfortunate if the C-vigilante groups extend their mentality to the airline sector.

Separately, SBI conducted a detailed audit of Jet in December and January and found nothing of significance (so this is fairly recent). NG was also subject to numerous audits including ones on security. He came out clear.

Now that NG has been detained, some irregularities will be cooked up so the Government can justify the detention (i.e., putting the cart before the horse). As I stated before, in any civilized society, as in the West, the charges would be thrown out solely because the defendant was not treated fairly regardless of the mertits of the case. There is something called "due process" in Western society --- read about it on google.

I am not shocked that some posters are spewing their anger at someone because he flies first class and they did not. This is a classic case of mixing class issues with business issues.

I never thought I would have to get in the position of defending NG. I am not. I am defending the process of law.
 
smartplane
Posts: 908
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Sun May 26, 2019 6:59 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Why can’t USZ EXIM stay quiet and when the default period closes seize the aircraft and make 1800 crore profit? ( 200 owed to it minus the 2000 value of the planes?) the profit helps them offset losses in scenarios where there are defaults by other borrowers

Perhaps because there won't be a surplus on realisations after charges, and secondary and lower ranking fixed charges are deducted?
 
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unrave
Posts: 2509
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Mon May 27, 2019 4:20 am

edealinfo wrote:
I am defending the process of law.

Something that you have time and again demonstrated that you have no idea of. So please tone down on your rants and let the adults in the board have healthy arguments.

Naresh Goyal is under investigation for siphoning Jet Airways funds. He has rightfully been stopped from leaving the country.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
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Phosphorus
Posts: 521
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Mon May 27, 2019 6:57 am

unrave wrote:
...

Naresh Goyal is under investigation for siphoning Jet Airways funds. ...


That's the question -- is he? Or rather, was he, before he showed up at the passport control desk?

could it be a last-minute, knee-jerk reaction from a passport control official, who realized that such a high-profile figure, involved in a scandalous failure of a major airline, is about to get out of the country, and he is the one to put the exit stamp? Who then calls up the chain, and at some point, the buck stops with someone who says "don't let him out, I'll sort out the legalese" and then calls a sympathetic judge or police commissioner, to start an investigation and issue a restraining order?
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unrave
Posts: 2509
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Mon May 27, 2019 7:32 am

Phosphorus wrote:

That's the question -- is he? Or rather, was he, before he showed up at the passport control desk?

could it be a last-minute, knee-jerk reaction from a passport control official, who realized that such a high-profile figure, involved in a scandalous failure of a major airline, is about to get out of the country, and he is the one to put the exit stamp? Who then calls up the chain, and at some point, the buck stops with someone who says "don't let him out, I'll sort out the legalese" and then calls a sympathetic judge or police commissioner, to start an investigation and issue a restraining order?

A+ for imagination but NG has been under investigation for quite sometime.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
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Slash787
Posts: 900
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:37 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Mon May 27, 2019 7:42 am

As Spicjet is taking so many ex 9W planes, they should name those planes as SpiceJet Airways. Instead of Red with White Dots, they should paint those planes Blue with Yellow dots, that would actually look great.
 
avier
Posts: 806
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Mon May 27, 2019 8:14 am

Slash787 wrote:
As Spicjet is taking so many ex 9W planes, they should name those planes as SpiceJet Airways. Instead of Red with White Dots, they should paint those planes Blue with Yellow dots, that would actually look great.


Creative thinking. It would end up looking like Brussels Airlines- blue with red dots. :)
Anyways, it's a nice time for SG to rebrand considering half their fleet is not bearing the proper livery and branding. Also, their brand would have taken a huge hit with their disruptive schedules along with shabby and poorly maintained aircrafts. Time for them to think of a new name and also position themselves as a hybrid airline with business class network wide.
The Jet Airways brand can actually also be reused, it still afterall has brand value.
 
User avatar
Viman
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:30 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Mon May 27, 2019 10:14 am

Naresh Goyal is under investigation by various departments like Ministry of Corporate Affairs, Enforcement Directorate etc.. he knew he was going to get nailed and was fleeing India just like Mallya, here are two articles on such stuff:

A widening enquiry into diversion of funds and the source of their equity led to the dramatic detention of Narash Goyal: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 510271.cms

Ministry of Corporate Affairs moved a month ago to bar Naresh Goyal from leaving India:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 509745.cms
 
vadodara
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Mon May 27, 2019 11:25 am

Phosphorus wrote:
unrave wrote:
...

Naresh Goyal is under investigation for siphoning Jet Airways funds. ...


That's the question -- is he? Or rather, was he, before he showed up at the passport control desk?

could it be a last-minute, knee-jerk reaction from a passport control official, who realized that such a high-profile figure, involved in a scandalous failure of a major airline, is about to get out of the country, and he is the one to put the exit stamp? Who then calls up the chain, and at some point, the buck stops with someone who says "don't let him out, I'll sort out the legalese" and then calls a sympathetic judge or police commissioner, to start an investigation and issue a restraining order?


It might be that members of the NG fan-club who let me go developed cold feet.

Besides the well stated points about fund diversion and such, not paying into provident fund, taxes etc hold stiff penalties and perhaps jail time.

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