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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 29, 2019 4:36 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

You know that the traditional escape route is a bus trip to Nepal and to Antigua

There is passport control while crossing Nepal border by road.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 29, 2019 4:49 pm

avier wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
If Jet revives and gets back it’s prime slots in BOM and DEL, Spicejet will suffer, and Vistara too. No good deed goes unpunished ( remember these 2 carriers brought in aircraft to aid the government in keeping a check on runaway airfares). If Jet revives, it will be a classic case on political risk in business


Spice will use it's political leverage to ensure the slots it took don't go away. Afterall they didn't take on 40 737's to fly between not-so-lucrative airports. Some rule will come up which says Jet has to forgo the slots due to some reason. Like they suddenly made rules of slots being given to those quickly inducting new planes and the exceptions made for aircrafts having to leave the country to be re-registered.


Here's my take. Jet will not come back without the GOI wanting them to. I don't think Spice and Vistara will get screwed because the planes can just go to Jet. As far as slots, Jet won't come back without their BOM portfolio. Can they lose a lot of slots in Pune and DEL, sure. But BOM (give or take say 10% of their slots) is Jet's real value plus Jet's DL partnership (assuming that still an option - I bet it is). The GOI was very clear that the slots were temporary until October. So Spice and Vistara can't complain. And in the end a smaller Jet does give the others an opportunity to grow. To the quote: "Spice will use it's political leverage to ensure the slots it took don't go away" - I get confused on this thread. Sometimes people are angry about crony capitalism and sometimes govt connections are portrayed as a legitimate way to get your way. Where do people come out on this? The govt should not just change rules on a dime. That is BAD for India in no uncertain terms. That said, I think Jet coming back is very very far off. I will say the fact that EY is still having meetings means they are not just going through the motions to look good. They have had a ton of good options to use to say Jet is dead. The fact that they still discuss means they want Jet to return. How badly (and how much $$$) is the real question. Also I do think the BJP winning so strongly gives the GOI more flexibility with Jet. The election is over so do they really need Ajay anymore (assuming they even felt they did in the first place).
 
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Viman
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 29, 2019 4:55 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
aarbee wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Only in India can one arbitrarily decide a person can't fly. There are no charges against him. They really have no right to hold him back. While it may seem like I am defending chacha, I am not. I am a rules-based persons. That is the essence in any civilized society.


Wow. Have you inside knowledge of the process of what transpired. Or you think India's a Banana republic, with NO law of the land.

edealinfo wrote:
File the charges, then, if warranted, arrest him. Not, arrest him, and then make up charges for the arrest.


When was he arrested? Or we now make up things?

edealinfo wrote:
I think what happened here is that the Government didn't want to take a chance -- Vijay Mallya left presumably before charges were filed. Instead of fixing the system so it doesn't happen again (i.e., frame charges first); the Government is again putting the cart before the horse. In the US, he would have walked, because of wrongful detention and any subsequent charges would have been thrown out on the grounds that a prejudicial intent existed --- i.e., find someone you want to arrest and subsequently make up charges to justify the arrest.

Update:
Now here is what he is being accused of: "Violations of Foreign Direct Investment MAY (emphasis added) have taken place when the Emirates took a stake in JPPL in 2014.

Only in India, you could be detained from travelling because someone thinks something "may" have happened.


So should the government not investigate? question any impropriety ? Or your presumptions trump any process or investigations that are happening or will happen?

- R


All he is saying is that ti appears that NG was pulled from a plane even though charges have not been filed against him nor has a court ruled that he cannot leave the country. I think you can agree that the Govt usually doesn't have the right to just prevent someone from traveling. And I agree with him. If you were pulled from a flight so publicly and there you didn't know the charges, wouldn't you be confused / annoyed? So edealinfo feels the move seems not based in rule of law. Now your response could be (and I am giving examples not based on facts): (a) actually in India the govt can prevent anyone from leaving the country if they even suspect them of wrong doing. Charges need not be filed or (b) actually he has been charged or (c) etc. Please explain why you feel like it was fair and that the law in India alloys it. That insight would be super helpful to the debate. Any insight?


Some insight for you and others:

Naresh Goyal is under investigation by various departments like Ministry of Corporate Affairs, Enforcement Directorate etc.. he knew he was going to get nailed and was fleeing India just like Mallya, here are two articles on such stuff:

A widening enquiry into diversion of funds and the source of their equity led to the dramatic detention of Narash Goyal:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 510271.cms

Ministry of Corporate Affairs moved a month ago to bar Naresh Goyal from leaving India:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 509745.cms
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 29, 2019 5:05 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
gives the GOI more flexibility with Jet


Can you quote one example where GOI used the flexibility to save Jet?

In summary
GOI enforced every rule to force Jet shutdown.
GOI bent every rule to help SpiceJet.

May 23rd mandate confirms India is happy with GOI's actions with Jet, hence no change in the course necessary.
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 29, 2019 6:39 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
All he is saying is that ti appears that NG was pulled from a plane even though charges have not been filed against him nor has a court ruled that he cannot leave the country. I think you can agree that the Govt usually doesn't have the right to just prevent someone from traveling. And I agree with him. If you were pulled from a flight so publicly and there you didn't know the charges, wouldn't you be confused / annoyed? So edealinfo feels the move seems not based in rule of law. Now your response could be (and I am giving examples not based on facts): (a) actually in India the govt can prevent anyone from leaving the country if they even suspect them of wrong doing. Charges need not be filed or (b) actually he has been charged or (c) etc. Please explain why you feel like it was fair and that the law in India alloys it. That insight would be super helpful to the debate. Any insight?


Nope. All edealinfo's claim were refuted. There are active investigations going on. NG was NOT arrested (like edealinfo's claim). I did not see the poster withdraw the statement or accept that s/he was wrong, even others showed the legality and seriousness of lookout notice.

Insights were provided in the posts :
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420603&start=1100#p21386571
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420603&start=1150#p21390087

Still no withdrawal of the allegations.
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 29, 2019 6:42 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Livemint has spiced up a headline from a wire agency feed. I give them credit for the headline (reproduced below). It is almost like advertising for one to read the story. The person who came up with the headline gets credit for creativity though I think it is a bit overstated. There are good facts in the story, though. For instance, one statement says, "Should its (Indigo's) share of departures hit 50% – which seems likely, given forecast 30% growth in capacity over the coming 12 months – the carrier’s passenger share ought to stand a good change of rising towards 60%, at which point its domestic position will be near-impregnable."

"IndiGo, the low-cost conqueror, is now coming for Emirates, Etihad Airways"
https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 87672.html

Relevance to Jet Airways: Shutdown?
Love the AIXes
 
User avatar
lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 29, 2019 6:49 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
gives the GOI more flexibility with Jet


Can you quote one example where GOI used the flexibility to save Jet?

In summary
GOI enforced every rule to force Jet shutdown.
GOI bent every rule to help SpiceJet.

May 23rd mandate confirms India is happy with GOI's actions with Jet, hence no change in the course necessary.

Other than lifting the rule that leased jets had to be flown to the leasing nation, what rules were bent? That rule was to restart service.

Jet was a house of cards ready to fall. Rules were bent in the past to keep it flying.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 29, 2019 7:15 pm

Viman wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
aarbee wrote:
Wow. Have you inside knowledge of the process of what transpired. Or you think India's a Banana republic, with NO law of the land.



When was he arrested? Or we now make up things?



So should the government not investigate? question any impropriety ? Or your presumptions trump any process or investigations that are happening or will happen?

- R


All he is saying is that ti appears that NG was pulled from a plane even though charges have not been filed against him nor has a court ruled that he cannot leave the country. I think you can agree that the Govt usually doesn't have the right to just prevent someone from traveling. And I agree with him. If you were pulled from a flight so publicly and there you didn't know the charges, wouldn't you be confused / annoyed? So edealinfo feels the move seems not based in rule of law. Now your response could be (and I am giving examples not based on facts): (a) actually in India the govt can prevent anyone from leaving the country if they even suspect them of wrong doing. Charges need not be filed or (b) actually he has been charged or (c) etc. Please explain why you feel like it was fair and that the law in India alloys it. That insight would be super helpful to the debate. Any insight?


Some insight for you and others:

Naresh Goyal is under investigation by various departments like Ministry of Corporate Affairs, Enforcement Directorate etc.. he knew he was going to get nailed and was fleeing India just like Mallya, here are two articles on such stuff:

A widening enquiry into diversion of funds and the source of their equity led to the dramatic detention of Narash Goyal:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 510271.cms

Ministry of Corporate Affairs moved a month ago to bar Naresh Goyal from leaving India:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 509745.cms



Some of this is just hogwash for the Government trying to justify the detention post fact, like I predicted.

Name did not match: I guess this was like Modi being spelt as Moody. How come there is no investigation into why there was a mismatch in the fiat place. Naresh and Goyal are usually not misspelt. How many people have already gotten away as a result of mismatches? What is being done to fix the issue so it can no longer be used as a repeated excuse?

Investigation into FDI lapses for Etihad’s investment in Jet Priveledge: in what way is this an NG issue? Why has the Government taken 6 years to discover what it supposedly has discovered? Who was sleeping at the wheels?

Investigation into Jet’s sources of funds? What???? 25 years later? Are they kidding me?

The multiple investigations, only at this time, leads me to believe that the Government is throwing Pooh at the wall and seeing what will stick. All of this to justify detaining someone who hasn’t even been officially charged for a single crime, not once for 25 years.

It looks like someone big needs must take the fall so that others will be Scott free (banks, politicians that lent favor, etc) . An 8,500 crore write offs by banks needs a high profile fall person. This way the public could be pacified, the chapter closed and everyone can move on.
Last edited by edealinfo on Wed May 29, 2019 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 29, 2019 7:21 pm

Yes, I agree NG was “detained” not “arrested” (I had not paid too much attention to the choice of word when typing. It doesn’t change my underlying point that in a civilized society one need to be charged before being detained. India shouldn’t be a dictatorship where strong men or women rule or make rules. That’s why there is separation of powers among the legislature, judiciary and executive..... unless in India this is merely on paper. As an illustrative example only, we know that North Korea is officially called the “Democratic” People’s Republic of Korea(DPRK).
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 29, 2019 7:42 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
gives the GOI more flexibility with Jet


Can you quote one example where GOI used the flexibility to save Jet?

In summary
GOI enforced every rule to force Jet shutdown.
GOI bent every rule to help SpiceJet.

May 23rd mandate confirms India is happy with GOI's actions with Jet, hence no change in the course necessary.


I'm just trying to give benefit of the doubt to the GOI. I was just throwing out there that perhaps now that the elections are over, they might not fight so heard against a Jet 2.0 IF (and I said IF) EY comes up with a rescue plan. We don't know how much favoring the GOI is willing to do with Spice. So let's see. I fill things are fluid (hence Spice placing the ad int he paper). Remember, while Spice might have supported Modi, so has the UAE. In politics you could be my best friend one day (when I need you) and then an inconvenient good friend when I am done with you. Again I am just throwing it out there, as I don't think anyone here knows how the GOI will act. All I know is that the GOI is a key part of any Jet 2.0 because they make the rules (as we go along...Ha!).
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 29, 2019 10:24 pm

It gets even more bizarre. Supposedly, the look out notice spelt NG’s last name as Goel instead of Goyal. Now that’s the official excuse. How one goes from Goyal to Goel ( that’s alike going from Modi to Moody) that too on something that is as important as a look out notice is beyond me. Of course there is no investigation as to why or how the name got to be misspelt.
 
UKFLYER26
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 10:50 am

Ex- Jet Airways VT-JFH - 39058 to become Vistara’s 1st 737 Aircraft, re-registered as VT-TGB
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 11:31 am

lightsaber wrote:
Other than lifting the rule that leased jets had to be flown to the leasing nation, what rules were bent?
...
Lightsaber


DGCA issued a circular that unsecured vendor invoices need to cleared before dereg, against CTA. This could be to delay repo (or) to bring lessors to the table to accept SpiceJet offer. If lessors paid these invoices, they got a bad deal because in 2012-13 court allowed them to repo without paying vendor invoices, in compliance with CTA.

MoCA restriction on slots only with new capacity addition, made up to help SpiceJet.
DGCA took over slot management, questionable at best.

Temporary slot assignment is just a smoke screen, one-way to make them permanent, make sure Jet is not coming back.

Where did SpiceJet get the money (or) credit to add so many planes in such a short time?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 11:43 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Other than lifting the rule that leased jets had to be flown to the leasing nation, what rules were bent?
...
Lightsaber


DGCA issued a circular that unsecured vendor invoices need to cleared before dereg, against CTA. This could be to delay repo (or) to bring lessors to the table to accept SpiceJet offer. If lessors paid these invoices, they got a bad deal because in 2012-13 court allowed them to repo without paying vendor invoices, in compliance with CTA.

MoCA restriction on slots only with new capacity addition, made up to help SpiceJet.
DGCA took over slot management, questionable at best.

Temporary slot assignment is just a smoke screen, one-way to make them permanent, make sure Jet is not coming back.

Where did SpiceJet get the money (or) credit to add so many planes in such a short time?

The rules to put aircraft back into service were to get the spike in fares down.

The slots rule was to prevent other routes losing service.

The only real rule bending was to get aircraft back into service. Ok.

The big winner is AI International. Now if they could only build off that.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 12:07 pm

lightsaber wrote:
The rules to put aircraft back into service were to get the spike in fares down.

The slots rule was to prevent other routes losing service.

The only real rule bending was to get aircraft back into service. Ok.

The big winner is AI International. Now if they could only build off that.

Lightsaber


Per law, once elections are announced, the government is not supposed to change any rules or even make important decisions. That law/rule was diligently enforced when EY requested open-offer waiver but pushed aside when it helps SpiceJet.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 1:06 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
The rules to put aircraft back into service were to get the spike in fares down.

The slots rule was to prevent other routes losing service.

The only real rule bending was to get aircraft back into service. Ok.

The big winner is AI International. Now if they could only build off that.

Lightsaber


Per law, once elections are announced, the government is not supposed to change any rules or even make important decisions. That law/rule was diligently enforced when EY requested open-offer waiver but pushed aside when it helps SpiceJet.


I agree with dtw2hyd in his past few posts. SpiceJet isn’t increasing its capacity by 80 percent in 2019 without locking in concessions from favorable government actions that others may say “simply went their way” Coincidence it is not. favoritism it is. But that’s how the aviation business is in India. Why do you think that there is not an aviation trade association representing all airlines in India? Because they they all know that policy isn’t geared in national interest but one that favors (one) or some, over the others, and vice vesa. 5/20 rule was the most notable and there are several others. Too bad the environment lends airlines to be pitted against each other
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 2:50 pm

So what happened at the EY HInduja etc meeting. No news leaks?
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 4:14 pm

IndiGo is paying Rs 27 lakh as joining bonus to ex-9W pilots. Around 300 Jet pilots have joined 6E with couple of months (3-6) of training required before they start.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 4:14 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
So what happened at the EY HInduja etc meeting. No news leaks?

The meeting was scheduled for May 29 and nothing has been leaked to the media which I am unable to interpret as a good or a bad sign as it relates to a revival of Jet.

Do you think they are waiting to see who the new Minister is?

was Piyush Goyal shunted from the ministry for Being seen as favoring SpiceJet?
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 4:18 pm

avier wrote:
IndiGo is paying Rs 27 lakh as joining bonus to ex-9W pilots. Around 300 Jet pilots have joined 6E with couple of months (3-6) of training required before they start.


Is the bonus offer still on?

How much are they getting in salary while they are being trained, and how much after they start flying?

How many years contract do they have to sign for Indigo to recoup the training fees?
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 4:46 pm

edealinfo wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
So what happened at the EY HInduja etc meeting. No news leaks?

The meeting was scheduled for May 29 and nothing has been leaked to the media which I am unable to interpret as a good or a bad sign as it relates to a revival of Jet.

Do you think they are waiting to see who the new Minister is?

was Piyush Goyal shunted from the ministry for Being seen as favoring SpiceJet?


I mean you can read it many ways. I will say every time they leaked their meeting outcome, it backfired on them. I think there are so many people against them that keeping quiet is the best bet. I would never leak my plans on a deal unless the publicly got me something (and that is very rare). EY and group need to get their internal structure all aligned. Once they are One Team, they can then walk into the banks and bargain hard. At that stage they should get the press, unions, for employees, hotel industry blah blah all involved. If it looks like they are real and their demands reasonable, that is their best bet at getting the GOI to agree. It allows Modi to turn to Spice and say what going I do yaar.
 
avier
Posts: 901
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 5:54 pm

edealinfo wrote:
How many years contract do they have to sign for Indigo to recoup the training fees?

2yr contract.
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 6:25 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
gives the GOI more flexibility with Jet


Can you quote one example where GOI used the flexibility to save Jet?

In summary
GOI enforced every rule to force Jet shutdown.
GOI bent every rule to help SpiceJet.

May 23rd mandate confirms India is happy with GOI's actions with Jet, hence no change in the course necessary.

Give me a reason why should they save Jet Airways? So that you have travel option of YOUR preference? DTW-NYC-BOM-HYD?

Or according to you the only objective of GOI's since 2014 was to shutdown Jet Airways?!? That's what prevented them from being current on their financial obligations, paying salaries, etc. I get it.

Did you think the recently concluded elections were conducted for the purposed of Jet Airways. Do you seriously think Indian voters cared a hoot whether a private entity called Jet Airways survived our not? Not to start a political discussions but they had lot more important think on their minds then a certain private corporation.

-R
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 6:44 pm

lightsaber wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
gives the GOI more flexibility with Jet


Can you quote one example where GOI used the flexibility to save Jet?

In summary
GOI enforced every rule to force Jet shutdown.
GOI bent every rule to help SpiceJet.

May 23rd mandate confirms India is happy with GOI's actions with Jet, hence no change in the course necessary.

Other than lifting the rule that leased jets had to be flown to the leasing nation, what rules were bent? That rule was to restart service.

Jet was a house of cards ready to fall. Rules were bent in the past to keep it flying.

Lightsaber

<Sarcasm>
Nope that's not true. Jet was flourishing company. A fit financial enterprise. Jet could never have fallen but for GOI/Modi's only 1 task since 2014 is to bring Jet down.
</Sarcasm>

-R
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 7:15 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Viman wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

All he is saying is that ti appears that NG was pulled from a plane even though charges have not been filed against him nor has a court ruled that he cannot leave the country. I think you can agree that the Govt usually doesn't have the right to just prevent someone from traveling. And I agree with him. If you were pulled from a flight so publicly and there you didn't know the charges, wouldn't you be confused / annoyed? So edealinfo feels the move seems not based in rule of law. Now your response could be (and I am giving examples not based on facts): (a) actually in India the govt can prevent anyone from leaving the country if they even suspect them of wrong doing. Charges need not be filed or (b) actually he has been charged or (c) etc. Please explain why you feel like it was fair and that the law in India alloys it. That insight would be super helpful to the debate. Any insight?


Some insight for you and others:

Naresh Goyal is under investigation by various departments like Ministry of Corporate Affairs, Enforcement Directorate etc.. he knew he was going to get nailed and was fleeing India just like Mallya, here are two articles on such stuff:

A widening enquiry into diversion of funds and the source of their equity led to the dramatic detention of Narash Goyal:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 510271.cms

Ministry of Corporate Affairs moved a month ago to bar Naresh Goyal from leaving India:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 509745.cms



Some of this is just hogwash for the Government trying to justify the detention post fact, like I predicted.


You did not predict anything. You just came up with some theories, don't know from where?

edealinfo wrote:
Name did not match: I guess this was like Modi being spelt as Moody. How come there is no investigation into why there was a mismatch in the fiat place. Naresh and Goyal are usually not misspelt. How many people have already gotten away as a result of mismatches? What is being done to fix the issue so it can no longer be used as a repeated excuse?

Are you kidding me? Are you Indian? Are you of Indian origin? Have you ever done anything meaningful (e.g. lived on own, study, travel, work, business) in India?
Name spelling is one of the most common things you have to deal with in India. I'm sure each and every one of person with dealing with India would have faced this is some manner. You never know what would have been written Gohel, Goel, Goyal, Goyel, Goal, Gohil .. Heck you yourself in a post in this thread (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420603&start=1100#p21383315) referred to Mr. Modi as Moody. ( "So, you are advocating for Moody to go to jail for that?") and somewhere you even miswrote the ex CEO of Jet Airways.

Just out of curiosity, Are you related to NG, have a stake or something too personal? You accused someone else in this thread to be petty : This sudden eruption of how misspelt name is an excuse and the GOI should focus on the rectification of this mistake (yest GOI has NO other business), etc., sounds too personal and petty to me.

edealinfo wrote:
Investigation into FDI lapses for Etihad’s investment in Jet Priveledge: in what way is this an NG issue? Why has the Government taken 6 years to discover what it supposedly has discovered? Who was sleeping at the wheels?

Investigation into Jet’s sources of funds? What???? 25 years later? Are they kidding me?

The multiple investigations, only at this time, leads me to believe that the Government is throwing Pooh at the wall and seeing what will stick. All of this to justify detaining someone who hasn’t even been officially charged for a single crime, not once for 25 years.



Again this sounds too petty to me. For once government, having faced the flak for Mallaya, Nirav Modi, Choksi, et. al., is NOT taking any chances. Your are again mis-characterizing the deboarding. NG was NOT detained. They went home and are are free to move around the country. It's pretty big as a matter of fact, in case you don't know.

-R
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 7:35 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Yes, I agree NG was “detained” not “arrested” (I had not paid too much attention to the choice of word when typing. It doesn’t change my underlying point that in a civilized society one need to be charged before being detained. India shouldn’t be a dictatorship where strong men or women rule or make rules. That’s why there is separation of powers among the legislature, judiciary and executive..... unless in India this is merely on paper. As an illustrative example only, we know that North Korea is officially called the “Democratic” People’s Republic of Korea(DPRK).


Again NOT detained. Consider paying attention. They went home. In a civilized society one is also responsible for financial obligation, payment of dues, paying employee of salaries, run a clean business, not resort to corrupt practices (NO dial-a-mantri for business), etc., etc., etc. If one wants rights, there are responsibilities too. That's the nature of democracy, my friend.

I do not know where you and others get this idea that India is a dictatorship? If you are not familiar with Indian democracy, the parliament makes the rules (they may constitute of strong men or women). India needs strong men and women for the implementation and adherence to those rules, which has been lacking for the longest part.

Another civic lesson, Separation of executive and legislature is purely technical in India. The "executive" of India is a figurehead. In practice the executive is the Prime Minister and her/his cabinet of ministers, all of whom HAVE to be the part of legislature.

Again out of curiosity, Are you related to NG, have a stake or something too personal? Just because NG was prevented from leaving implies India's equivalence to NK?

-R
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 7:40 pm

edealinfo wrote:
It gets even more bizarre. Supposedly, the look out notice spelt NG’s last name as Goel instead of Goyal. Now that’s the official excuse. How one goes from Goyal to Goel ( that’s alike going from Modi to Moody) that too on something that is as important as a look out notice is beyond me. Of course there is no investigation as to why or how the name got to be misspelt.


As I explained earlier, There's NOTHING bizarre about it. Tardy yes, unexpected NO.

Please explain, How you consider the mis spelling the name as MOST important priority of the GOI. You don't think they have more important issues to attend to?

Seriously related to NG?

-R
Love the AIXes
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 7:43 pm

Aarbee wrote: "Again this sounds too petty to me. For once government, having faced the flak for Mallaya, Nirav Modi, Choksi, et. al., is NOT taking any chances. Your are again mis-characterizing the deboarding. NG was NOT detained. They went home and are are free to move around the country. It's pretty big as a matter of fact, in case you don't know."

Look Aarbee, I don't care if NG goes to jail or not. If he did something illegal, he should pay for it. But to prevent someone from leaving the country when there are no charges seems wrong to me. You would not want that to happen to you. And NG has nothing to do with the GOI's incompetence with Mallaya. The original discussion around NG being prevented to leave was around timing. Why now? What new thing has happened that the GOI has not already known? Finally, was blocking NG trying to send a message to investors in Jet? All fair questions and maybe the answer is something new came up and they are not trying to send any message. IMHO this circus continues, and I find it hard to except that NG was prevented from leaving because some new illegal activity came up and the GOI is about to charge him with something big.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 7:47 pm

aarbee wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Yes, I agree NG was “detained” not “arrested” (I had not paid too much attention to the choice of word when typing. It doesn’t change my underlying point that in a civilized society one need to be charged before being detained. India shouldn’t be a dictatorship where strong men or women rule or make rules. That’s why there is separation of powers among the legislature, judiciary and executive..... unless in India this is merely on paper. As an illustrative example only, we know that North Korea is officially called the “Democratic” People’s Republic of Korea(DPRK).


Again NOT detained. Consider paying attention. They went home. In a civilized society one is also responsible for financial obligation, payment of dues, paying employee of salaries, run a clean business, not resort to corrupt practices (NO dial-a-mantri for business), etc., etc., etc. If one wants rights, there are responsibilities too. That's the nature of democracy, my friend.

I do not know where you and others get this idea that India is a dictatorship? If you are not familiar with Indian democracy, the parliament makes the rules (they may constitute of strong men or women). India needs strong men and women for the implementation and adherence to those rules, which has been lacking for the longest part.

Another civic lesson, Separation of executive and legislature is purely technical in India. The "executive" of India is a figurehead. In practice the executive is the Prime Minister and her/his cabinet of ministers, all of whom HAVE to be the part of legislature.

Again out of curiosity, Are you related to NG, have a stake or something too personal? Just because NG was prevented from leaving implies India's equivalence to NK?
-R


NG is not personally liable for the company. That is the basis of modern business which, through British law, India very much has. But in the end. Let's just disagree on this. That said, I don't agree that India is NK or a dictatorship. I think India can be lose on rules inconsistent with law enforcement. While global companies see tons of opportunity and promise in India, there are risks. One being these type of stunts. It is why have been so against crony capitalism - be it when it benefited NG (5/20) and Spice (mad dash for slots).
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 7:54 pm

edealinfo wrote:
I agree with dtw2hyd in his past few posts. SpiceJet isn’t increasing its capacity by 80 percent in 2019 without locking in concessions from favorable government actions that others may say “simply went their way” Coincidence it is not. favoritism it is. But that’s how the aviation business is in India. Why do you think that there is not an aviation trade association representing all airlines in India? Because they they all know that policy isn’t geared in national interest but one that favors (one) or some, over the others, and vice vesa. 5/20 rule was the most notable and there are several others. Too bad the environment lends airlines to be pitted against each other


So if the GOI doesn't do something, it is a problem. It does something it is a problem. What should the GOI have done? Prohibited SpiceJet from getting planes, slots, etc.?

Is the supposed "favoritism" happening for the 1st time in Civil Aviation in India. Seriously do you even understand why trade association is needed? Including Jet Airways there are 5 major private carriers in India. You think they would want a trade association? Your favorite NG was one of the key person for the 5/20 rule. NG is is trouble, so now you want change in environment. Hmmm!

In a capitalistic environment shouldn't the business be pitted against each other? Survival of the fittest? Shouldn't Toyota and Honda not be pitted against each other.

-R
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 7:56 pm

edealinfo wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
So what happened at the EY HInduja etc meeting. No news leaks?

The meeting was scheduled for May 29 and nothing has been leaked to the media which I am unable to interpret as a good or a bad sign as it relates to a revival of Jet.

Do you think they are waiting to see who the new Minister is?

was Piyush Goyal shunted from the ministry for Being seen as favoring SpiceJet?


Again making up your own theories?

How does Piyush Goyal figure in this? When/where was Piyush Goyal shunted? Clarity? Facts?

-R
Love the AIXes
 
User avatar
Viman
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:30 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 8:16 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
aarbee wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Yes, I agree NG was “detained” not “arrested” (I had not paid too much attention to the choice of word when typing. It doesn’t change my underlying point that in a civilized society one need to be charged before being detained. India shouldn’t be a dictatorship where strong men or women rule or make rules. That’s why there is separation of powers among the legislature, judiciary and executive..... unless in India this is merely on paper. As an illustrative example only, we know that North Korea is officially called the “Democratic” People’s Republic of Korea(DPRK).


Again NOT detained. Consider paying attention. They went home. In a civilized society one is also responsible for financial obligation, payment of dues, paying employee of salaries, run a clean business, not resort to corrupt practices (NO dial-a-mantri for business), etc., etc., etc. If one wants rights, there are responsibilities too. That's the nature of democracy, my friend.

I do not know where you and others get this idea that India is a dictatorship? If you are not familiar with Indian democracy, the parliament makes the rules (they may constitute of strong men or women). India needs strong men and women for the implementation and adherence to those rules, which has been lacking for the longest part.

Another civic lesson, Separation of executive and legislature is purely technical in India. The "executive" of India is a figurehead. In practice the executive is the Prime Minister and her/his cabinet of ministers, all of whom HAVE to be the part of legislature.

Again out of curiosity, Are you related to NG, have a stake or something too personal? Just because NG was prevented from leaving implies India's equivalence to NK?
-R


NG is not personally liable for the company. That is the basis of modern business which, through British law, India very much has. But in the end. Let's just disagree on this. That said, I don't agree that India is NK or a dictatorship. I think India can be lose on rules inconsistent with law enforcement. While global companies see tons of opportunity and promise in India, there are risks. One being these type of stunts. It is why have been so against crony capitalism - be it when it benefited NG (5/20) and Spice (mad dash for slots).
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Aarbee wrote: "Again this sounds too petty to me. For once government, having faced the flak for Mallaya, Nirav Modi, Choksi, et. al., is NOT taking any chances. Your are again mis-characterizing the deboarding. NG was NOT detained. They went home and are are free to move around the country. It's pretty big as a matter of fact, in case you don't know."

Look Aarbee, I don't care if NG goes to jail or not. If he did something illegal, he should pay for it. But to prevent someone from leaving the country when there are no charges seems wrong to me. You would not want that to happen to you. And NG has nothing to do with the GOI's incompetence with Mallaya. The original discussion around NG being prevented to leave was around timing. Why now? What new thing has happened that the GOI has not already known? Finally, was blocking NG trying to send a message to investors in Jet? All fair questions and maybe the answer is something new came up and they are not trying to send any message. IMHO this circus continues, and I find it hard to except that NG was prevented from leaving because some new illegal activity came up and the GOI is about to charge him with something big.


I think some people may have missed the news articles on why Naresh Goyal was deboarded, reposting the links for people who missed it:

Naresh Goyal is under investigation by various departments like Ministry of Corporate Affairs, Enforcement Directorate etc.. he knew he was going to get nailed and was fleeing India just like Mallya, here are two articles on such stuff:

A widening enquiry into diversion of funds and the source of their equity led to the dramatic detention of Narash Goyal:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 510271.cms

Ministry of Corporate Affairs moved a month ago to bar Naresh Goyal from leaving India:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 509745.cms
 
User avatar
Viman
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:30 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 8:31 pm

aarbee wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Yes, I agree NG was “detained” not “arrested” (I had not paid too much attention to the choice of word when typing. It doesn’t change my underlying point that in a civilized society one need to be charged before being detained. India shouldn’t be a dictatorship where strong men or women rule or make rules. That’s why there is separation of powers among the legislature, judiciary and executive..... unless in India this is merely on paper. As an illustrative example only, we know that North Korea is officially called the “Democratic” People’s Republic of Korea(DPRK).


Again NOT detained. Consider paying attention. They went home. In a civilized society one is also responsible for financial obligation, payment of dues, paying employee of salaries, run a clean business, not resort to corrupt practices (NO dial-a-mantri for business), etc., etc., etc. If one wants rights, there are responsibilities too. That's the nature of democracy, my friend.

I do not know where you and others get this idea that India is a dictatorship? If you are not familiar with Indian democracy, the parliament makes the rules (they may constitute of strong men or women). India needs strong men and women for the implementation and adherence to those rules, which has been lacking for the longest part.

Another civic lesson, Separation of executive and legislature is purely technical in India. The "executive" of India is a figurehead. In practice the executive is the Prime Minister and her/his cabinet of ministers, all of whom HAVE to be the part of legislature.

Again out of curiosity, Are you related to NG, have a stake or something too personal? Just because NG was prevented from leaving implies India's equivalence to NK?

-R


None of the Naresh Goyal fanboys are personally related to him, it is just that they used to visit India from US/Canada once a year and Jet Airways was their preferred airline. One of the member is also politically aligned with Sonia Maino and her stooge Naresh Goyal.

None of them stay here in India, that is why you see so much disinformation and propaganda, one of them cannot understand that people use Goel/Goyal, one of them was furious that "Shri" word was used for the Prime Minister saying it is only meant for Gods, so you can imagine who you are dealing with here.

One such Naresh Goyal fanboy who was saying that Mumbai Terminal 2 was ghost town, I fact checked him by saying that i was in Terminal 2 just 2-3 days back and it was full of people, I visit BOM every other month and have more idea than those who visit once a year or once in two years. My tickets are booked again for BOM next week, happy flying !!
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 9:05 pm

Viman wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
aarbee wrote:

Again NOT detained. Consider paying attention. They went home. In a civilized society one is also responsible for financial obligation, payment of dues, paying employee of salaries, run a clean business, not resort to corrupt practices (NO dial-a-mantri for business), etc., etc., etc. If one wants rights, there are responsibilities too. That's the nature of democracy, my friend.

I do not know where you and others get this idea that India is a dictatorship? If you are not familiar with Indian democracy, the parliament makes the rules (they may constitute of strong men or women). India needs strong men and women for the implementation and adherence to those rules, which has been lacking for the longest part.

Another civic lesson, Separation of executive and legislature is purely technical in India. The "executive" of India is a figurehead. In practice the executive is the Prime Minister and her/his cabinet of ministers, all of whom HAVE to be the part of legislature.

Again out of curiosity, Are you related to NG, have a stake or something too personal? Just because NG was prevented from leaving implies India's equivalence to NK?
-R


NG is not personally liable for the company. That is the basis of modern business which, through British law, India very much has. But in the end. Let's just disagree on this. That said, I don't agree that India is NK or a dictatorship. I think India can be lose on rules inconsistent with law enforcement. While global companies see tons of opportunity and promise in India, there are risks. One being these type of stunts. It is why have been so against crony capitalism - be it when it benefited NG (5/20) and Spice (mad dash for slots).
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Aarbee wrote: "Again this sounds too petty to me. For once government, having faced the flak for Mallaya, Nirav Modi, Choksi, et. al., is NOT taking any chances. Your are again mis-characterizing the deboarding. NG was NOT detained. They went home and are are free to move around the country. It's pretty big as a matter of fact, in case you don't know."

Look Aarbee, I don't care if NG goes to jail or not. If he did something illegal, he should pay for it. But to prevent someone from leaving the country when there are no charges seems wrong to me. You would not want that to happen to you. And NG has nothing to do with the GOI's incompetence with Mallaya. The original discussion around NG being prevented to leave was around timing. Why now? What new thing has happened that the GOI has not already known? Finally, was blocking NG trying to send a message to investors in Jet? All fair questions and maybe the answer is something new came up and they are not trying to send any message. IMHO this circus continues, and I find it hard to except that NG was prevented from leaving because some new illegal activity came up and the GOI is about to charge him with something big.


I think some people may have missed the news articles on why Naresh Goyal was deboarded, reposting the links for people who missed it:

Naresh Goyal is under investigation by various departments like Ministry of Corporate Affairs, Enforcement Directorate etc.. he knew he was going to get nailed and was fleeing India just like Mallya, here are two articles on such stuff:

A widening enquiry into diversion of funds and the source of their equity led to the dramatic detention of Narash Goyal:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 510271.cms

Ministry of Corporate Affairs moved a month ago to bar Naresh Goyal from leaving India:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 509745.cms


Nice, he hasn't even been charged and you have convicted him. Even if he is under investigation does that mean he can't leave the country? He could be investigated for 2 years so he is stuck. In most countries you need to be arrested or charged or something before liberties are taken away. It seemed like neither NG nor the press knew there was any charges against him until he hot pulled off the plane. Why didn't the police go to a judge and get some kind of order preventing him from leaving and then tell he that. I will admit I don't understand how India works when it comes to criminal justice (aside from Bollywood movies :)
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7075
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 9:32 pm

aarbee wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
gives the GOI more flexibility with Jet


Can you quote one example where GOI used the flexibility to save Jet?

In summary
GOI enforced every rule to force Jet shutdown.
GOI bent every rule to help SpiceJet.

May 23rd mandate confirms India is happy with GOI's actions with Jet, hence no change in the course necessary.

Give me a reason why should they save Jet Airways? So that you have travel option of YOUR preference? DTW-NYC-BOM-HYD?

Or according to you the only objective of GOI's since 2014 was to shutdown Jet Airways?!? That's what prevented them from being current on their financial obligations, paying salaries, etc. I get it.

Did you think the recently concluded elections were conducted for the purposed of Jet Airways. Do you seriously think Indian voters cared a hoot whether a private entity called Jet Airways survived our not? Not to start a political discussions but they had lot more important think on their minds then a certain private corporation.

-R


My comment was not about saving Jet. It is about fairness with clear eyes. Obviously, those who follow the Book of Fairness, everything looks fair.

My first preference is whatever SkyTeam gives me when I want to travel. If my schedule permits I am contemplating DTW-LHR on DL and LHR-HYD on BA self-connect option.

Just to prove these slots allocations were temporary, GoI will revoke slots from AI, UK, and G8 come October. Fair, correct.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1671
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 9:56 pm

Arbee,,
Are you suggesting that it is common for India’s premier investigation agency to spell names incorrectly. Obviously they had access to NG’s passport information (surely if the US NSA has access to India’s giant biometric database, surely India’s own invetigation arms have access to basic passport info to copy to a look out notice. Or are you arguing in favor of on incompetency
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1671
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 10:04 pm

Arbee,
I would be flattered that you think that I would hold a material stake in Jet except; even if I did, it would probably have a relative worth of Re1, if I am lucky.
No, I don’t own Jet or SpiceJet or any Jet stock not am I related to any of their owners or executives.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1671
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 10:29 pm

Delete
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 30, 2019 11:40 pm

I love that now on this thread if you dare take sympathy on NG (even though you might have railed against him in the past), you are a fanboy. Basically if your view isn’t that SpiceJet is a great airline, their leader was brilliant in grabbing Jet’s BOM slots and India is on the cusp of a golden period of aviation then you are persona non grata or a foreigner (don’t know which is worse here anymore). Jeez guys. Why is it so annoying to you that some of us liked flying Jet. I am totally not annoyed that you hated Jet. Jet offered me good service and tons of options from BOM-EU plus a sky team connection. To each their own. I am also not a fanboy nor think Jet was a well run airline. I just lament that there is no airline in india today that is well enough run that they can even come close to take the place on Jet. Plus the crony capitalism of both Jet and Spice is What hurts indian aviation IMHO. Look at responses above. No one has actually built a case as to why Spice is a great airline and not benefitting from favoritism. If the fact that we are not based in India your strongest counter point, well...
 
vadodara
Posts: 943
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri May 31, 2019 3:37 am

lightsaber wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
gives the GOI more flexibility with Jet


Can you quote one example where GOI used the flexibility to save Jet?

In summary
GOI enforced every rule to force Jet shutdown.
GOI bent every rule to help SpiceJet.

May 23rd mandate confirms India is happy with GOI's actions with Jet, hence no change in the course necessary.

Other than lifting the rule that leased jets had to be flown to the leasing nation, what rules were bent? That rule was to restart service.

Jet was a house of cards ready to fall. Rules were bent in the past to keep it flying.

Lightsaber


Ah yes! It needed lots of free money from Govt. owned banks. Not continuing that freebie is constituted as govt. forcing them out.
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2621
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri May 31, 2019 7:02 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Jeez guys. Why is it so annoying to you that some of us liked flying Jet. I am totally not annoyed that you hated Jet. Jet offered me good service and tons of options from BOM-EU plus a sky team connection. To each their own. .


It is perfectly fine to have liked flying Jet. But to claim that Jet deserves to be rescued with taxpayer money just because it provided NRIs with cheap tickets for their annual pilgrimage to the motherland is a fatuous argument.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2621
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri May 31, 2019 7:09 am

dtw2hyd wrote:

Per law, once elections are announced, the government is not supposed to change any rules or even make important decisions. That law/rule was diligently enforced when EY requested open-offer waiver but pushed aside when it helps SpiceJet.

Readers of this thread my kindly treat the above comment as non factual.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1671
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri May 31, 2019 11:35 am

delete
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri May 31, 2019 4:58 pm

unrave wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Jeez guys. Why is it so annoying to you that some of us liked flying Jet. I am totally not annoyed that you hated Jet. Jet offered me good service and tons of options from BOM-EU plus a sky team connection. To each their own. .


It is perfectly fine to have liked flying Jet. But to claim that Jet deserves to be rescued with taxpayer money just because it provided NRIs with cheap tickets for their annual pilgrimage to the motherland is a fatuous argument.


Unrave you can't accuse someone of something they never said. I have never said Jet needs to be rescued with govt funds. EVER. Please provide proof or take back you false statement (you love calling people out for false claims but yet you troll your own). I have only said that Jet should be restructured or its parts sold off. You want Jet's infrastructure to just go away and no real value returned for it. In the normal world that does not happen. But apparently India does not have a US/UK style bankruptcy nor a quick way to liquidate a business to a new owner. In an ideal world, Jet's BOM operations would have been sold to Vistara, Spice, Indigo, EY, whomever. This sale would have paid off Jet's debt and new Jet would be clean. Total normal in most of the world. On this thread some don't want this - why? Because they either want their favorite airline to get something for free or so hate Jet/Jet employees/BOM what ever that they just want it gone. Also remember I have been consistent in saying NG should not benefit from any sale. Only the banks then the unsecured creditors then the equity holders (the last two would never see anything).
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri May 31, 2019 5:06 pm

vadodara wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Jeez guys. Why is it so annoying to you that some of us liked flying Jet. I am totally not annoyed that you hated Jet. Jet offered me good service and tons of options from BOM-EU plus a sky team connection. To each their own. .


Like Pan Am and TWA fan-boys, you are free to purchase Jet Airways memorablia.

Perhaps, there might be even NG bobble-heads!


Sticks and stones and mocking comments rather than an intellectual rebuttal. Cool...

Btw, things actually worked out mostly fine for me: DL JFK-BOM (nonstop with suites in J - mom and bro already booked and excited), VS new LHR-BOM (DL partner and previously had great onboard service in J between LHR-BOM), KL increases AMS-BOM with better timings (DL partner - I'm on this flight in DEC on a new 789). So I'm good. Only my mom isn't super happy because she lost the 9:30am and 1pm (or what ever it was) BOM-LHR flights that connect to evening JFK flights. She hates hates hates leaving BOM after 10pm. Oh well, she will have to deal. Option lost (but hey who needs timing options when Indigo might launch BOM-IST-LGW LCC flight on a 737).
 
binayak
Posts: 967
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri May 31, 2019 5:26 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Sticks and stones and mocking comments rather than an intellectual rebuttal. Cool...

Btw, things actually worked out mostly fine for me: DL JFK-BOM (nonstop with suites in J - mom and bro already booked and excited), VS new LHR-BOM (DL partner and previously had great onboard service in J between LHR-BOM), KL increases AMS-BOM with better timings (DL partner - I'm on this flight in DEC on a new 789). So I'm good. Only my mom isn't super happy because she lost the 9:30am and 1pm (or what ever it was) BOM-LHR flights that connect to evening JFK flights. She hates hates hates leaving BOM after 10pm. Oh well, she will have to deal. Option lost (but hey who needs timing options when Indigo might launch BOM-IST-LGW LCC flight on a 737).


Calm down man!
It's common that when we, the people quoted as " BOM / DEL fan " provide a proper justification, the rest of the haters either go silent or personally attack.
One of the biggest statements made by the " proud resident Indians" who think just because they live in India, they know everything, has been that 9Ws int'l routes were loss making. However we've seen who was right there.
Comedy is how foreign carriers easily took away all the int'l routes and slots but our Indian carriers kept fighting for who will get most of jet's ( unprofitable) domestic ops. I don't consider SG taking bunch of 9W 737s a victory for SG at all. See how this affects their profitability in the next 2 quarters.
What most people here want as I can see is how soon domestic air fares go back to the levels of AC trains. That's it. It will be a victory for Indian aviation according to them.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
avier
Posts: 901
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri May 31, 2019 5:47 pm

MCA issues lookout circular against Jet Airways former CEO Vinay Dube
https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/mca-issues-lookout-notice-against-former-jet-airways-ceo-vinay-dube-3541591.htm

Yikes. Even he's not spared.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1671
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri May 31, 2019 7:26 pm

[photoid][/photoid]
avier wrote:
MCA issues lookout circular against Jet Airways former CEO Vinay Dube
https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/mca-issues-lookout-notice-against-former-jet-airways-ceo-vinay-dube-3541591.htm

Yikes. Even he's not spared.


Which is why we were arguing against the draconian “denied travel” (or whatever) without explicit charges being filed. Now Jet workers who haven’t been paid get back at professionals using this route never mind that Dube hasn’t himself been paid since December..... far longer than other workers who are also demanding to be paid for April and May when they have not worked during this period.

For all those who supported NGs restrictions on travel without charges, look where this kind of policy could lead. This is why in the West they set up laws, or rules, that those in power need to abide with.

I guess India just kissed goodbye to a potential investment in Jet by the Hindujas. I had long been arguing on this forum that potential investors in Jet are being sent a message and the message is on the wall.

At least by the end of this week we would know whether Jet will fly again or not. Guess which way the winds are blowing on this.
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2261
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri May 31, 2019 9:36 pm

edealinfo wrote:

I guess India just kissed goodbye to a potential investment in Jet by the Hindujas. I had long been arguing on this forum that potential investors in Jet are being sent a message and the message is on the wall.

At least by the end of this week we would know whether Jet will fly again or not. Guess which way the winds are blowing on this.


Jet is dead and has been for quite a while now, even when they were operating.

You and your friend Cali have repeatedly and vociferously aired fantastical scenarios that are without any basis in modern business, economics, or political science, and very little basis in fact.

There are no assets left worth buying at Jet, even if the banks take a 99% haircut. The unsecured creditors and employees are owed too much to make anything work.

I don’t give a hoot about NG one way or the other. I have flown Jet several times and enjoyed it, especially in F to LHR. I have also flown Spice, Indigo, Kingfisher, Air Deccan...heck, I even took the Shitabdi Express a few times.

You guys are entirely too wrapped up in this and have turned it into some sort of soap opera in your heads...the business world does not work like a soap opera.

Airlines come and go, businessmen come and go, businesses come and go.

All your fantastical scenarios and suppositions of facts make you look like fools.

“It is better to be silent and assumed a fool, than to open your mouth and prove it.”
 
vadodara
Posts: 943
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri May 31, 2019 9:54 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
vadodara wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Jeez guys. Why is it so annoying to you that some of us liked flying Jet. I am totally not annoyed that you hated Jet. Jet offered me good service and tons of options from BOM-EU plus a sky team connection. To each their own. .


Like Pan Am and TWA fan-boys, you are free to purchase Jet Airways memorablia.

Perhaps, there might be even NG bobble-heads!


Sticks and stones and mocking comments rather than an intellectual rebuttal. Cool...

Btw, things actually worked out mostly fine for me: DL JFK-BOM (nonstop with suites in J - mom and bro already booked and excited), VS new LHR-BOM (DL partner and previously had great onboard service in J between LHR-BOM), KL increases AMS-BOM with better timings (DL partner - I'm on this flight in DEC on a new 789). So I'm good. Only my mom isn't super happy because she lost the 9:30am and 1pm (or what ever it was) BOM-LHR flights that connect to evening JFK flights. She hates hates hates leaving BOM after 10pm. Oh well, she will have to deal. Option lost (but hey who needs timing options when Indigo might launch BOM-IST-LGW LCC flight on a 737).


Issue is not if the option worked for you or you liked it. Issue is 9W never made any money in the past decade.

It is the expectation that somehow it was SBI’s job to bail them out.

And the election results didn’t really help his cause even if the fraudsters won (Chidambaram, Rajah, Maran’s and so on).

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