edealinfo
Posts: 1315
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:19 pm

edealinfo wrote:
avier wrote:
US Exim Bank moves DGCA to de-register 6 Boeing 777-300ER's of Jet.
.


The link below provides details of the repossession plan. It also has some interesting facts:

"The US Exim Bank is likely to give the planes to Air India for preventive maintenance. Air India already houses one B777 aircraft from Jet’s fleet at its maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) facility in Nagpur facility. Under preventive maintenance, checks like turning engine on-off for some time are conducted daily”.

https://www.financialexpress.com/indust ... a/1605949/


I think EXIM Bank is making a ginormous mistake by keeping the deregistered 77w aircraft in India where it will be subject to Indian laws. Any attempt to sell the aircraft could potentially be stalled by Indian courts because EXIM stands to gain 90 percent of the sales proceeds as profit (the remaining 10 percent is the amount outstanding on the loan). EXIM, per their loan contract, can rightfully retain 100 percent of the sales proceeds on default .....but do you think Indian courts would allow a pforeign organization to walk away with that kind of profit especially when Indian banks have lost $$$$$$$$ on Jet???

EXIM..... get those planes out of India now or The planes will meet the same fate as Vinod Dube (stuck in India indefinitely with no end in sight.....,...Indian bureaucracy can take its own sweet time.......remember Jet is being investigated for sources of funding a whopping 25 years earlier )
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7069
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:31 pm

edealinfo wrote:
...
I think EXIM Bank is making a ginormous mistake by keeping the deregistered 77w aircraft in India where it will be subject to Indian laws. Any attempt to sell the aircraft could potentially be stalled by Indian courts because EXIM stands to gain 90 percent of the sales proceeds as profit (the remaining 10 percent is the amount outstanding on the loan). EXIM, per their loan contract, can rightfully retain 100 percent of the sales proceeds on default .....but do you think Indian courts would allow a pforeign organization to walk away with that kind of profit especially when Indian banks have lost $$$$$$$$ on Jet???

EXIM..... get those planes out of India now or The planes will meet the same fate as Vinod Dube (stuck in India indefinitely with no end in sight.....,...Indian bureaucracy can take its own sweet time.......remember Jet is being investigated for sources of funding a whopping 25 years earlier )


Unsecured creditors have no claim on mobile aviation assets under Capetown Treaty. EXIM shouldn't have any problem storing at any CTA signatory, assuming it is land of laws.

If bloggers/av pundits can look beyond the looks of an outdoor parked frame in a semi-arid sub-tropical region, it is actually cheaper to leave it in India. It will cost $10K to store at VCV. Yes, they will pack it nicely. AIESL is a GE branded engine overhaul shop.

Also, bloggers can earn fifteen-minute fame or tea by writing news about AI neglecting EXIM frames at Nagpur.
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2254
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:44 pm

edealinfo wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
avier wrote:
US Exim Bank moves DGCA to de-register 6 Boeing 777-300ER's of Jet.
.


The link below provides details of the repossession plan. It also has some interesting facts:

"The US Exim Bank is likely to give the planes to Air India for preventive maintenance. Air India already houses one B777 aircraft from Jet’s fleet at its maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) facility in Nagpur facility. Under preventive maintenance, checks like turning engine on-off for some time are conducted daily”.

https://www.financialexpress.com/indust ... a/1605949/


I think EXIM Bank is making a ginormous mistake by keeping the deregistered 77w aircraft in India where it will be subject to Indian laws. Any attempt to sell the aircraft could potentially be stalled by Indian courts because EXIM stands to gain 90 percent of the sales proceeds as profit (the remaining 10 percent is the amount outstanding on the loan). EXIM, per their loan contract, can rightfully retain 100 percent of the sales proceeds on default .....but do you think Indian courts would allow a pforeign organization to walk away with that kind of profit especially when Indian banks have lost $$$$$$$$ on Jet???

EXIM..... get those planes out of India now or The planes will meet the same fate as Vinod Dube (stuck in India indefinitely with no end in sight.....,...Indian bureaucracy can take its own sweet time.......remember Jet is being investigated for sources of funding a whopping 25 years earlier )


Where do you get these ideas?

You are so wrong again on the facts it is funny!

You know nothing about contracts, contract law, bankruptcy law, or anything else so please just stop with the fake “facts”

You kept repeating that the banks were stupid because they did not want to take an 80% haircut and they would get nothing in bankruptcy...now we see that they will get about 37% of their due via liquidation....

The exim bank does not get to keep any excess off the sale of repo’d planes, as the excess will go to the secured creditors.

Please quit making sh!! up.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1019
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:45 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
ADIGRO GIVES 48 HOURS DEADLINE
Threatens to Walk Away


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indiat ... 2019-06-12


Even a party that is literally begging to issue a check to restart Jet, is caught in the Indian bureaucracy and business politics. India has not changed..... Moody or not


The current government will never indemnify any investor. They extensively use so-called autonomous agencies to arm-twist businesses. Dusting off cold cases or filing new cases without statutory limits is a common practice. Case on Tony Fernandez is one such example. DGCA, GTF investigation is another.

Also, the revival of Jet will hurt Ajit Singh more than anyone else. Not going to happen.


Fair point. So essentially the banks would rather write 100% off than hurt Ajay Singh. While it still shocks me, there is no point in going around on this merry go round any more. Also now I realize why some were so insistent that there was no value to Jet once it ceased operations. If you believe there was value (meaning on Jet's airline infrastructure, talent, vendors) then the banks had to do something. If you bought the story line that Jet was just a shell of nothing with no real assets and value, then shutting it down totally would not raise a stink. The funny thing is I've worked on acquisitions of failed start ups that have very little real assets, but we still buy the remains because we get expertise, processes, trained people etc. Clearly our valuation reflects that but it is not zero. Oh well...
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1019
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:52 pm

DLPMMM wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

The link below provides details of the repossession plan. It also has some interesting facts:

"The US Exim Bank is likely to give the planes to Air India for preventive maintenance. Air India already houses one B777 aircraft from Jet’s fleet at its maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) facility in Nagpur facility. Under preventive maintenance, checks like turning engine on-off for some time are conducted daily”.

https://www.financialexpress.com/indust ... a/1605949/


I think EXIM Bank is making a ginormous mistake by keeping the deregistered 77w aircraft in India where it will be subject to Indian laws. Any attempt to sell the aircraft could potentially be stalled by Indian courts because EXIM stands to gain 90 percent of the sales proceeds as profit (the remaining 10 percent is the amount outstanding on the loan). EXIM, per their loan contract, can rightfully retain 100 percent of the sales proceeds on default .....but do you think Indian courts would allow a pforeign organization to walk away with that kind of profit especially when Indian banks have lost $$$$$$$$ on Jet???

EXIM..... get those planes out of India now or The planes will meet the same fate as Vinod Dube (stuck in India indefinitely with no end in sight.....,...Indian bureaucracy can take its own sweet time.......remember Jet is being investigated for sources of funding a whopping 25 years earlier )


Where do you get these ideas?

You are so wrong again on the facts it is funny!

You know nothing about contracts, contract law, bankruptcy law, or anything else so please just stop with the fake “facts”

You kept repeating that the banks were stupid because they did not want to take an 80% haircut and they would get nothing in bankruptcy...now we see that they will get about 37% of their due via liquidation....

The exim bank does not get to keep any excess off the sale of repo’d planes, as the excess will go to the secured creditors.

Please quit making sh!! up.


First let's be respectful please. Nothing anyone has said on this forum deserves a response like this. Going to your post - no one has ever said that Jet's real assets won't be recovered - the 77W are their prime assets. No one knows what other equipment and assets they might own but clearly they do own more. So when everyone says you lose everything, they are not including those (please remember this discussion has been going on for months and people don't restate the same facts over again). What is totally lost is the value the infrastructure has together. Jet had developed routes, forward bookings, processes, meals planned out, vendors that provide food, baggage handling, websites what ever. You typically get much more for liquidating the company as a whole or large pieces. You get much much less selling individual pieces - meaning here is one baggage tractor going for Rs XXX. Btw the banks could have reposed the planes and leased them back to new jet. The big issue buyers had was a reduction in debt load and indemnification. If the banks could make more by liquidating the pieces they would just say that - meaning if we sell pieces we will get XXX, you need to offer at least XXX for us to play. They have not said that.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1019
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:44 pm

Can someone explain this article to me. Why are the banks trying to delay bankruptcy of Jet. If there is no real buyer (meaning a buyer with acceptable terms), then why delay more? I don't understand India's process at all. Also what happens when it goes in bankruptcy? Does the court again try to sell of all or part of Jet? Or do they only sell real assets? Anyone know?

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 773262.cms
 
avier
Posts: 856
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:36 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Can someone explain this article to me. Why are the banks trying to delay bankruptcy of Jet.

It's called Drama. In this country they like to stage a play over such issues which keeps dragging with many different climaxes till the general public just lose interest in the play and move on, by when they can just shut it down without any hullabaloo.
Right now there are still lot of emotions attached to this company going under from its section of employees who haven't moved on, their frequent fliers, and also public figures who still continue to tweet about how they miss the airline. So if they had shut it off instantly two months back, there would have been a lot more protests and such reactions from their stakeholders, enough to draw public sympathy and give a bad rap to its lenders.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1315
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:36 pm

“War Room” created for Jet’s revival. Cramer Ball, former CEO of Jet, attends meeting for potential revival. plan is to revive Jet with 10 to 15 planes.

Only court cases are the major obstacles to revival.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbctv ... 31.htm/amp
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1315
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:36 pm

“War Room” created for Jet’s revival. Cramer Ball, former CEO of Jet, attends meeting for potential revival. plan is to revive Jet with 10 to 15 planes.

Only court cases are the major obstacles to revival.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbctv ... 31.htm/amp
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:53 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
aarbee wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

What does NG have to do with the sale process? He is out and stepped down. Now, he should be blamed for sticking around so long and allowing his airline to essentially be shut down. But the moment he stepped down, the sale process is owned by the banks and GOI. Remember the sale of Jet is about the banks recovering money not equity holders like NG (unless the sale is so high that debt is paid off first - which won't happen).

Why Not? If he gets credit for creating Jet Airways and running it for 25 years, he gets to be blamed for the current state too. Maybe if he had paid his employees and contributed to funds that would have been one thing off the list for the resale process.

CaliguyNYC wrote:
In fairness to edealinfo, he has absolutely put blame on NG for Jet's current state. But in his post he only focused on blame for the sale process. And what is a conspiracy theory here. The govt is not able to sell to Jet, isn't that a fact? I think ideal laid out quite well what the facts are. The Hindujas, per news reports, absolutely asked for the GOI to not hold the new buyer liable for any potential crimes of NG. The GOI does not seem to have responded and the hindujas rightly baulked. What are not facts? Please love to hear you "facts"

It seems that you guys under the impression that fundamental responsibility of GOI is to resolve Jet Airways sale.
No response from GOI means a negative response ---> NOT a fact. GOI has much more deeper issues to focus on one failed private enterprise.

Continuously badgering one airlines owner/promoter and making conclusions based on a picture with MOCA, questioning his other personal sporting interests, making fun of looks of an aged gentleman, questioning things about beloved Jet Airways automatically makes you a JetHater and a Spice fan boy is nothing short of conspiracy theory.

It's quite interesting that facts only matter when one says something not in favor of beloved Jet Airways.

-R


Aarbee what are you talking about wrt commenting on looks of an aged man etc. Why even bring up all that crap. Where is that even in my post. I don't care what fanboy you or anyone is.

Since you are defending edealinfo's post, that's where all the "crap" started. You can read further back in the thread.

CaliguyNYC wrote:
I am just debating what should be done. The GOI is really only involved because the banks are owned by the GOI. Is it the banks responsibility to reclaim as much of the debt owed as they can? Yes 100%. EY and the hindujas have given their offer and requirements. The banks / GOI should respond one way or another.

Yes it's the bank's responsibilities. But it's quite funny, that we think that they are not aware about it. They do not have to adhere to the schedule of forum. I'm sure the bank management has resources behind where there is larger value and/or more potential of recovering

Just because they are not putting out hourly updates or daily statements to satisfy this thread, does not mean they are not doing any work. IIRC SBI chairman did mention something to the likes of - Jet Airways exposure is down the priority list for them. More important recoveries to focus on for them.

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Now as non insiders who are commenting on the requirements, I feel like what the hindujas are asking is totally fair (meaning they should not be held responsible for NG's crimes if any). What do you think? And look you are free to say the govt & banks should do nothing, walk away from EY (if they refuse to indemnify EY/HIndujas against NG's issues, I imagine the deal is dead) and just let Jet go away and recover $0. That is a course of action you can suggest.

Yes Hindujas point is fair. But why should GOI commit a hara kari by hanging the dead weight on their necks. I'm sure they want to GOI does not want that. Whatever the issues with NG and Jet Airways, GOI would not want to come out of it scathed just to satisfy the need of some people to have a FSC carrier providing a certain N/S international route.

-R
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:10 pm

edealinfo wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
ADIGRO GIVES 48 HOURS DEADLINE
Threatens to Walk Away


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indiat ... 2019-06-12


Even a party that is literally begging to issue a check to restart Jet, is caught in the Indian bureaucracy and business politics. India has not changed..... Moody or not


"Literally begging to issue a check to restart Jet" -> Is the party by itself ready to
  • assume all the debt
  • repay all the outstanding due
  • pay the employees and contribute the missed funds to PPF
  • assume all NG and beloved Jet Airways legal and criminal liabilities.
  • etc.
If so, then I'm sure GOI will consider handing it over to the "party" who can make advance payment to take all those responsibilities.

Just because someone wants the beloved Jet Airways to resurrect does not mean it's the priority of GOI. GOI has more important matters to adhere to impacting a vast majorty of 1.3b people then one puny failed private enterprise. As I suspect that you not having done anything meaningful in India, it's quite abhorrent to denigrate India, it's bureaucracy, business, politics, elected Prime Minister just because beloved dead Jet Airways is not paid attention to.

It's quite funny that a person who threw a fit because the Indian bureaucracy might have misspelt NG's last name has a consistent FAILURE in correctly spelling the name of Prime Minister of Worlds biggest democracy. Just shows the maturity level or political leaning. If it's the latter please take it to the Indian politics thread in Non-Aviation.
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:12 pm

zuckie13 wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
ADIGRO GIVES 48 HOURS DEADLINE
Threatens to Walk Away


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indiat ... 2019-06-12


Even a party that is literally begging to issue a check to restart Jet, is caught in the Indian bureaucracy and business politics. India has not changed..... Moody or not


They are begging to issue a check, as long as others, who were already negotiating to buy Jet also still cut a check, but apparently don't want to work with them or this would have been part of that bid and not its own unsolicited bid.

This is just Adigro just wanting its name in the news.

No No No , beloved Jet Airways should be resurrect at all costs, without any analysis. :lol:
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:33 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
ADIGRO GIVES 48 HOURS DEADLINE
Threatens to Walk Away


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indiat ... 2019-06-12


Even a party that is literally begging to issue a check to restart Jet, is caught in the Indian bureaucracy and business politics. India has not changed..... Moody or not


The current government will never indemnify any investor.

Which capitalist market or govt will compensate an investor? Care to point out?

dtw2hyd wrote:
They extensively use so-called autonomous agencies to arm-twist businesses. Dusting off cold cases or filing new cases without statutory limits is a common practice. Case on Tony Fernandez is one such example. DGCA, GTF investigation is another.

If it is true, I think it's not fair. But
1) Is this the only government in Indian history which might have done it?
2) Should the current government not investigate anything? Or just do what fancies you?

dtw2hyd wrote:

Also, the revival of Jet will hurt Ajit Singh more than anyone else. Not going to happen.

More conspiracy theories just because you are devastated that the Indian electorate choose not follow your direction.

If you want to constantly bring in your utter dislike for the current govt., it's leader, the community he is from, etc. on this thread ... better look into Indian Politics Mega thread in Non-Aviation.
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:37 pm

edealinfo wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
avier wrote:
US Exim Bank moves DGCA to de-register 6 Boeing 777-300ER's of Jet.
.


The link below provides details of the repossession plan. It also has some interesting facts:

"The US Exim Bank is likely to give the planes to Air India for preventive maintenance. Air India already houses one B777 aircraft from Jet’s fleet at its maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) facility in Nagpur facility. Under preventive maintenance, checks like turning engine on-off for some time are conducted daily”.

https://www.financialexpress.com/indust ... a/1605949/


I think EXIM Bank is making a ginormous mistake by keeping the deregistered 77w aircraft in India where it will be subject to Indian laws. Any attempt to sell the aircraft could potentially be stalled by Indian courts because EXIM stands to gain 90 percent of the sales proceeds as profit (the remaining 10 percent is the amount outstanding on the loan). EXIM, per their loan contract, can rightfully retain 100 percent of the sales proceeds on default .....but do you think Indian courts would allow a pforeign organization to walk away with that kind of profit especially when Indian banks have lost $$$$$$$$ on Jet???

EXIM..... get those planes out of India now or The planes will meet the same fate as Vinod Dube (stuck in India indefinitely with no end in sight.....,...Indian bureaucracy can take its own sweet time.......remember Jet is being investigated for sources of funding a whopping 25 years earlier )


If I was the part of EXIM management, who might have elite financial analyst, economist, lawyers, bankruptcy/reorganization specialists on their payroll, I would be highly indebted to you to provide this free advice which professionals of EXIM have no clue about.

:)
Love the AIXes
 
zuckie13
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:44 pm

edealinfo wrote:
“War Room” created for Jet’s revival. Cramer Ball, former CEO of Jet, attends meeting for potential revival. plan is to revive Jet with 10 to 15 planes.

Only court cases are the major obstacles to revival.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbctv ... 31.htm/amp


The general thing about every article like this that shows some hope of reviving Jet is that the "sources" never seem to have names. That's usually a bad sign.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1019
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:12 pm

aarbee wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

Even a party that is literally begging to issue a check to restart Jet, is caught in the Indian bureaucracy and business politics. India has not changed..... Moody or not


The current government will never indemnify any investor.

Which capitalist market or govt will compensate an investor? Care to point out?

dtw2hyd wrote:
They extensively use so-called autonomous agencies to arm-twist businesses. Dusting off cold cases or filing new cases without statutory limits is a common practice. Case on Tony Fernandez is one such example. DGCA, GTF investigation is another.

If it is true, I think it's not fair. But
1) Is this the only government in Indian history which might have done it?
2) Should the current government not investigate anything? Or just do what fancies you?



dtw2hyd wrote:

Also, the revival of Jet will hurt Ajit Singh more than anyone else. Not going to happen.

More conspiracy theories just because you are devastated that the Indian electorate choose not follow your direction.

If you want to constantly bring in your utter dislike for the current govt., it's leader, the community he is from, etc. on this thread ... better look into Indian Politics Mega thread in Non-Aviation.


Aarbee - the indemnity is about coming after the new owners for potential wrong doings of NG. That is totally normal. In the US you wouldn't need the govt to indemnify you because the laws give you work arounds (to a point). Hindujas clearly feel that Indian laws do not protect them, so they are asking the govt for indemnity.

Can I ask why you get so passionate if people are not happy with the way things are handled re Jet? It is just their opinion. None of us work for an airline (that we know of - not counting the intern). Maybe one or two of us have admitted to being aviation consultants. But why are all the posts so aggressive against people. If you disagree with them, either correct them or ignore them. Look there seem to be two camps here (1) Those that lament Jet's closing and who cannot understand why Indian laws / banking rules don't allow the pieces of Jet to be sold to another owner and (2) those that feel Jet should die where die doesn't mean their current investors getting nothing it is where die means all the spoils of Jet should be given away. Both sides seem to agree the NG was a bad manager and deserves to be out. So if you agree with the above, then what is there to get so emotional. I would have been happy if say Vistara would have bought Jet's BOM opperations. The banks would have made money and Vistara would have been up and running with a nice hub. But yet I am a Jet lover. On other threads people would not describe my opinion as a lover of the failed airline. In the Jet case we have the added option of just giving away a lot of the value of Jet. Most situations with other airline failures don't have this option. So in reality no one here is a Jet lover. It is really between maintain a BOM hub airline vs destroy it.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1315
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:58 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
...

Unsecured creditors have no claim on mobile aviation assets under Capetown Treaty. EXIM shouldn't have any problem storing at any CTA signatory, assuming it is land of laws.



Wasn't India also a signatory to the Capetown treaty when Kingfisher went bankrupt? Did lessors get back their planes, then? Or, have you forgotten? Laws are just on paper. India does whatever it wants.

I stand by my position. Exim should gets its planes out, NOW!

You may recall, on this forum, I repeatedly called for Vinod Dube to get out of India, while he could. Despite being a professional, and one with personal integrity, he too was subsequently placed on a blacklist, caught up in a political game and rivalry, and politics, that were not his to begin with.

Now place yourself in EXIM shoes. As EXIM, roughly 10% of the loan amount is still outstanding. Per the favorable loan agreement terms, in the event of default, Exim can repossess the aircraft and do whatever it wants with the aircraft (asset). It has no obligation to pay anything back to the defaulter or anyone else.

Now place yourself in the Indian Government's shoes. You see a pforeign organization that can sell the asset at a value such that only 10% (of a potential sale price) is needed to cover the upstanding balance of the loan, so the remaining 90% is pure profit). The Indian public sector banks could have taken possession of the planes (depriving EXIM of the 90% profit potential) by paying EXIM the 10% on behalf of Jet, BUT, lo and behold, given the bureaucracy and politics, FROZE, and didn't pay the 10%. So, now it is all advantage to EXIM.

How do you think newspapers (Indian media) will react if EXIM took the planes out of India and made a spectacular profit on the sale of the planes? They would cry bloody murder and the government/banks would look foolish and dumb -- and these are understatements especially because the Indian Government and banks had a chance to prevent that from happening but didn't.

But, the game isn't over as yet. India has its "legal system". As long as the plane is in India, the judges can interpret things in any way they want (remember what happened when lessors wanted to take back Kingfisher planes, Cape Town treaty notwithstanding)

That's why I am saying EXIM should take its planes out now. Heck forget the profit potential......if the plane get mired in India's legal bureaucracy, getting back anything could take forever.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1315
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:11 am

Asiaflyer wrote:
The share of Jet Airways has collapsed on the Mumbai stockmarket over the past few days.
Last week it traded between INR 122 and 147. Today it hit a low of INR 84.60.
Not even the forever hopeful market belives in Jet anymore.


Over 2 months ago, I said that they were not worth Rs 10 at that time and suggested that it was a massive opportunity for short sellers. I stood by my comment. I think the Government subsequently banned short selling or placed severe restrictions on it. The important point is that there was a window of opportunity to act (short selling).
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1315
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:17 am

aarbee wrote:
[

Since you are defending edealinfo's post, that's where all the "crap" started.

-R


To translate what Arbee openly admitted. If a person holds a differing view, not only will that person be targeted but those not also taking a diametrically opposite position will also be targeted (with Arbee's hateful opinions).

Holy Kow!
Last edited by edealinfo on Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:39 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1315
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:21 am

aarbee wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

Also, the revival of Jet will hurt Ajit Singh more than anyone else.


More conspiracy theories just because you are devastated that the Indian electorate choose not follow your direction.



What dtw2hyd stated is FACT not a conspiracy theory.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1315
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:22 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
[
Fair point. So essentially the banks would rather write 100% off than hurt Ajay Singh.


This would be logical reasoning based on the unfortunate case of India's system and the associated business-politics.
Last edited by edealinfo on Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1315
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:24 am

avier wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Can someone explain this article to me. Why are the banks trying to delay bankruptcy of Jet.

It's called Drama. In this country they like to stage a play over such issues which keeps dragging with many different climaxes till the general public just lose interest in the play and move on, by when they can just shut it down without any hullabaloo.
Right now there are still lot of emotions attached to this company going under from its section of employees who haven't moved on, their frequent fliers, and also public figures who still continue to tweet about how they miss the airline. So if they had shut it off instantly two months back, there would have been a lot more protests and such reactions from their stakeholders, enough to draw public sympathy and give a bad rap to its lenders.


A fair assessment.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1315
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:25 am

delete
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1315
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:54 am

"Fresh plan for Jet Airways rescue on cards; SBI to call meeting of lenders"

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 058_1.html

Pakistan extends airspace ban along its eastern border with India till June 28

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 24433.html
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:59 am

delete
 
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Viman
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:05 am

"Jet Airways owes more than Rs 8,000 crore to a consortium of banks led by the State Bank of India, which now run the airline, while it has a much larger debt pile by way of accumulated losses to the tune of Rs 13,000 crore and vendor dues of over Rs 10,000 crore and salary dues of over Rs 3,000 crore."

"The National Company Law Tribunal (NCLT) Thursday adjourned the hearing on Jet Airways insolvency case to June 20. "

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 773262.cms
 
Antarius
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:12 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
aarbee wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

Also, the revival of Jet will hurt Ajit Singh more than anyone else. Not going to happen.

More conspiracy theories just because you are devastated that the Indian electorate choose not follow your direction.

If you want to constantly bring in your utter dislike for the current govt., it's leader, the community he is from, etc. on this thread ... better look into Indian Politics Mega thread in Non-Aviation.


Other than on these special-ed shills curated a.net threads, these are widely accepted on any aviation forum and news media.

I know this post will be promptly deleted but all insults will be kept for the record,


Ironic.

Anyways, I'm done with this for good. Enjoy your failing airline and conspiracy theories and non-fact based quips.

And people lament why a.net loses so many posters and is left with quantity vs quality.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:21 am

Viman wrote:
"Jet Airways owes more than Rs 8,000 crore to a consortium of banks led by the State Bank of India, which now run the airline, while it has a much larger debt pile by way of accumulated losses to the tune of Rs 13,000 crore and vendor dues of over Rs 10,000 crore and salary dues of over Rs 3,000 crore."

"The National Company Law Tribunal (NCLT) Thursday adjourned the hearing on Jet Airways insolvency case to June 20. "

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 773262.cms


Do the 3,000 crore outstanding include wages and salaries include amounts for when employees technically stooped working....from April onwards?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:06 am

edealinfo wrote:
Wasn't India also a signatory to the Capetown treaty when Kingfisher went bankrupt? Did lessors get back their planes, then? Or, have you forgotten? Laws are just on paper. India does whatever it wants.


KF vendors in India lost $100 Million as unpaid fees. They went to court, but the court agreed on CTA supremacy and ordered DGCA to de-register. Aircraft financiers and lessors were able to repo quickly thereafter.

Somehow rules are changed now, even though the situation is exactly the same.

Some Irish registered trust owns the planes. Not 9W(renter) SBI(consultant) or EXIM(guarantor) or Citibank(lease servicer) or ING Singapore(lease servicer)
The lease/debt servicer applies for de-registration
CTA signatory country should de-register without asking any questions
The mobile asset should be allowed to fly away, even if there are unpaid unsecured invoices associated with that frame or airline.

No trustee/lessor/financier paid unsecured KF vendors $100 Million. They are still trying to collect from VJM. Why would 9W 777 trustees pay unsecured vendors? I don't think there is any provision in CTA.

The whole purpose of CTA was to avoid hurdles created by banana republics.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:31 am

This thread seems to carry a lot blatant falsehoods masquerading as facts.
Readers of this thread should know India is not a FULL signatory to the Cape Town treaty/agreement. Local courts still have a say on repossession, although things have improved since the days of Kingfisher.

Remember: Always FACTCHECK suspect comments!
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:33 am

Antarius wrote:

Anyways, I'm done with this for good. Enjoy your failing airline and conspiracy theories and non-fact based quips.

And people lament why a.net loses so many posters and is left with quantity vs quality.


Don't let the ill informed trolls win.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:30 am

unrave wrote:
This thread seems to carry a lot blatant falsehoods masquerading as facts.
Readers of this thread should know India is not a FULL signatory to the Cape Town treaty/agreement. Local courts still have a say on repossession, although things have improved since the days of Kingfisher.

Remember: Always FACTCHECK suspect comments!


If India is a "FULL" (your word) signatory to the Cape Town treaty/agreement, why does the lessor have to pay unpaid dues on the plane (outstanding fuel and airport charges borne by the plane) before the aircraft will be de-registered?

As dtw2hyd commented, the whole purpose of CTA was to avoid hurdles created by banana republics
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:37 am

edealinfo wrote:

If India is a "FULL" (your word) signatory to the Cape Town treaty/agreement, why does the lessor have to pay unpaid dues on the plane (outstanding fuel and airport charges borne by the plane) before the aircraft will be de-registered?

As dtw2hyd commented, the whole purpose of CTA was to avoid hurdles created by banana republics


Read my comment. READ. Go.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
avier
Posts: 856
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:30 am

Jet Airways' problems will be solved, says civil aviation minister
https://m.economictimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/civil-aviation-says-confident-jet-airways-problems-will-be-solved/articleshow/69786622.cms

While on one hand there is (fake) optimism being shown by the lenders and civil av. departments on Jets revival, on the other hand they secretly handicap the airline further to ensure there no scope of anything working out. Clearly, someone's hand behind all this, lest they lose very vital slots they newly acquired. Dirty games people play behind the scenes. And a nice staged drama on the front showing hope.

DGCA cancels authorisation to Jet’s engineering department
https://m.economictimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/dgca-cancels-authorisation-to-jets-engineering-department/articleshow/69781117.cms
 
bennett123
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:49 am

According to the article, Jet needed am Accountable Manager, Quality Manager and Continuous Airworthiness Manager. When these three quit, this action then followed.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7069
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:23 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
...Nothing anyone has said on this forum deserves a response like this.


It is a well-known technique. You might want to watch this video, so you will know to identify telltale signs and ignore.
https://youtu.be/-bYAQ-ZZtEU?t=547
 
edealinfo
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:46 pm

As I had predicated on this thread, namely, Jet would be revived to show how effective the new minister is
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livemi ... 67181.html

Note that he said that he is “very confident” Jet would be revived. Further he admitted to past mistakes and said that it needs to be corrected.

Tremendous respect for this minister who has the courage to admit a mistakes (although these mistakes are probably those of others.....but admission of a mistake is a rarity in Indian politics and must be commended
 
edealinfo
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:56 pm

avier wrote:
Jet Airways' problems will be solved, says civil aviation minister
https://m.economictimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/civil-aviation-says-confident-jet-airways-problems-will-be-solved/articleshow/69786622.cms

While on one hand there is (fake) optimism being shown by the lenders and civil av. departments on Jets revival, on the other hand they secretly handicap the airline further to ensure there no scope of anything working out. Clearly, someone's hand behind all this, lest they lose very vital slots they newly acquired. Dirty games people play behind the scenes. And a nice staged drama on the front showing hope.

DGCA cancels authorisation to Jet’s engineering department
https://m.economictimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/dgca-cancels-authorisation-to-jets-engineering-department/articleshow/69781117.cms


While what you have stated is a likely scenario it could also be a simple case of a right hand not in sync with the left hand.

Alternatively this could be “organized chaos” which is how most tourists describe their first time experience when traveling to India. They don’t mean it with disrespect but rather a sense of cautious admiration in the sense that despite all the chaos, things still seem to run along normally as though there is no chaos to begin with.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:00 pm

edealinfo wrote:
As I had predicated on this thread, namely, Jet would be revived to show how effective the new minister is
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livemi ... 67181.html

Note that he said that he is “very confident” Jet would be revived. Further he admitted to past mistakes and said that it needs to be corrected.

Tremendous respect for this minister who has the courage to admit a mistakes (although these mistakes are probably those of others.....but admission of a mistake is a rarity in Indian politics and must be commended


I think MoCivAv and PMO have different goals. Everyone knows who wins. Arun Jaitley and Jayant Sinha were successful in achieving their goal, ie., shutting down 9W, but raked up too much bad publicity. Mogambo khush nahi hua (was not happy). He is never happy with negative news.

"Issues will be corrected" means all missing domestic routes will be operated by SG, a cheap business class will be provided by SG. In Indian terms cheek-pinch and chocolate to the consumers.

Don't read it is as 9W revival.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:58 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
As I had predicated on this thread, namely, Jet would be revived to show how effective the new minister is
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livemi ... 67181.html

Note that he said that he is “very confident” Jet would be revived. Further he admitted to past mistakes and said that it needs to be corrected.

Tremendous respect for this minister who has the courage to admit a mistakes (although these mistakes are probably those of others.....but admission of a mistake is a rarity in Indian politics and must be commended


I think MoCivAv and PMO have different goals. Everyone knows who wins. Arun Jaitley and Jayant Sinha were successful in achieving their goal, ie., shutting down 9W, but raked up too much bad publicity. Mogambo khush nahi hua (was not happy). He is never happy with negative news.

"Issues will be corrected" means all missing domestic routes will be operated by SG, a cheap business class will be provided by SG. In Indian terms cheek-pinch and chocolate to the consumers.

Don't read it is as 9W revival.


So I think you are right that the negative news hasn't played well. I am speculating here so feel free to not read on: basically Jet shutting down the way it did (and I don't mean NG getting kicked out - no one cares - if Jet would have become Vistara or any other FSC airline no one would have blinked) - the elites in BOM and to a lessor extent DEL & BLR were affected. No one bought the story line that it was a brilliant management move by Spice and Spice's ad in the newspaper praising Modi was just too much for pro Modi BJPers in BOM (remember Modi is very popular in BOM and is seen as pro business and against petty crony capitalism - even though everyone knows the BJP has to play the game). The Spice thing just was too public and the "perceived" pain too much for media/banking/rich people. Also the notion that India does not have a developed enough economy to support a private FSC with intl long haul has not played well either (call it foolish ego but that is how some feel). The biggest miscalculation was that Spice would be able to step in and fill in the Jet gaps. It probably can domestically, but no airline can fill the gap on long haul. So how ever you slice it, it looks like a big fail for Indian aviation to non anet frequent flyers in certain major cities. The FB posts by my family friends angry about the Spice/Jet thing are very real and these people are normal frequent flyers with no personal reason to love Jet or NG. Right or wrong all cities are not created equal. So the negative news seems stronger because it comes from BOM/DEL/BLR. But agreed someone in Mysore probably doesn't care. So net net what will happen. Who knows, the circus just continues. Maybe the GOI will allow a smaller Jet to come back that focuses on long haul with key banks at BOM and DEL to support it. So create a win for spice and a win for a FSC (I am not using the name Jet because I don't want to get into the save Jet back and forth - jet is dead - this is about a new FSC).

And to those who just want to go on a BOM rant, please save us all that. I am trying to analyze why the minister would say Jet will be saved and this process never dies. I don't buy that the GOI needs to make it look like they are trying. It has gone on long enough - kill Jet if that is what they want and move on. The point is they are not and keep sending mixed signals. So something is up. the question is what is driving this? Would love to hear your thoughts even if you disagree with me on every point I have said.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1315
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:26 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
As I had predicated on this thread, namely, Jet would be revived to show how effective the new minister is
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livemi ... 67181.html

Note that he said that he is “very confident” Jet would be revived. Further he admitted to past mistakes and said that it needs to be corrected.

Tremendous respect for this minister who has the courage to admit a mistakes (although these mistakes are probably those of others.....but admission of a mistake is a rarity in Indian politics and must be commended


I think MoCivAv and PMO have different goals. Everyone knows who wins. Arun Jaitley and Jayant Sinha were successful in achieving their goal, ie., shutting down 9W, but raked up too much bad publicity. Mogambo khush nahi hua (was not happy). He is never happy with negative news.

"Issues will be corrected" means all missing domestic routes will be operated by SG, a cheap business class will be provided by SG. In Indian terms cheek-pinch and chocolate to the consumers.

Don't read it is as 9W revival.


So I think you are right that the negative news hasn't played well. I am speculating here so feel free to not read on: basically Jet shutting down the way it did (and I don't mean NG getting kicked out - no one cares - if Jet would have become Vistara or any other FSC airline no one would have blinked) - the elites in BOM and to a lessor extent DEL & BLR were affected. No one bought the story line that it was a brilliant management move by Spice and Spice's ad in the newspaper praising Modi was just too much for pro Modi BJPers in BOM (remember Modi is very popular in BOM and is seen as pro business and against petty crony capitalism - even though everyone knows the BJP has to play the game). The Spice thing just was too public and the "perceived" pain too much for media/banking/rich people. Also the notion that India does not have a developed enough economy to support a private FSC with intl long haul has not played well either (call it foolish ego but that is how some feel). The biggest miscalculation was that Spice would be able to step in and fill in the Jet gaps. It probably can domestically, but no airline can fill the gap on long haul. So how ever you slice it, it looks like a big fail for Indian aviation to non anet frequent flyers in certain major cities. The FB posts by my family friends angry about the Spice/Jet thing are very real and these people are normal frequent flyers with no personal reason to love Jet or NG. Right or wrong all cities are not created equal. So the negative news seems stronger because it comes from BOM/DEL/BLR. But agreed someone in Mysore probably doesn't care. So net net what will happen. Who knows, the circus just continues. Maybe the GOI will allow a smaller Jet to come back that focuses on long haul with key banks at BOM and DEL to support it. So create a win for spice and a win for a FSC (I am not using the name Jet because I don't want to get into the save Jet back and forth - jet is dead - this is about a new FSC).

And to those who just want to go on a BOM rant, please save us all that. I am trying to analyze why the minister would say Jet will be saved and this process never dies. I don't buy that the GOI needs to make it look like they are trying. It has gone on long enough - kill Jet if that is what they want and move on. The point is they are not and keep sending mixed signals. So something is up. the question is what is driving this? Would love to hear your thoughts even if you disagree with me on every point I have said.


What we can reasonably infer is that a new Jet will likely be designed with a singular focus.... using the India-AUH bilateral to serve as a feeder to AUH. So, I am speculating.... 10 to 15 daily flights to AUH from various points in India, in a best case scenario. But since, Indian rules have some strange formula that require that foreign capacity can not exceed 20 percent of domestic capacity..... they also need to work backwards and backfill that domestic capacity. So, instead of having 10 planes, they will need 50 planes in total to also cater to the domestic capacity requirements. aaargh but so be it.

Whether a new airline can be successfully built out of a dead Jet is a totally different matter.
 
avier
Posts: 856
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:38 pm

edealinfo wrote:
But since, Indian rules have some strange formula that require that foreign capacity can not exceed 20 percent of domestic capacity.....

Funnily, those rules don't apply to Air India Express. They get special treatment there and can have purely all int'l flights if they wish, though AIX does some timepass domestic service here and there to keep aircrafts utilised in between long gaps.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1315
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:50 pm

avier wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
But since, Indian rules have some strange formula that require that foreign capacity can not exceed 20 percent of domestic capacity.....

Funnily, those rules don't apply to Air India Express. They get special treatment there and can have purely all int'l flights if they wish, though AIX does some timepass domestic service here and there to keep aircrafts utilised in between long gaps.


True . And while not saying it is right, maybe the Government should leverage that and officially “grandfather those special rights” if Air India Express is sold as an individual identity. This will substantially open the pool of available buyers. Maybe even some foreign groups will be interested.

If Moody is smart, he should sell AIX first. Being independently profitable, and with grandfathered rights, relatively few employees, and good slots, it should fetch a decent premium. What better way to crown his second term with a smashing success of an AIX divestment. I know Moody loves success and good publicity, and an AIX independent sale would deliver it to him on a platter. Moody would be a darling to the public and this is relatively easy to pull off. I hope he bites.
 
avier
Posts: 856
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:55 pm

edealinfo wrote:
As an example, why do you think Ajay Singh was given an exception from mandatorily making a public offer to buy shares (when his shareholding crossed 25 percent) but buyers of Jet are not offered the same exception. It is the same Government that deals with Spicejet and Jet but why was there a difference in policy?

Also govt protecting Spicejet planes from being repo'd, by not heeding to dereg. requests from lessors over unpaid dues . Also provided extend credit for fuel purchase and instructing oil companies to not cut fuel supply, till the time SG was able to pay for it on their own. And also bent other rules so the airline could smoothly operate like rules over crew working hours exceeding, compliance issues, protecting their slots, route rights, etc. Some article over it below, though behind a pay wall.
https://prime.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/68350509/transportation/behind-spicejets-sterling-turnaround-overworked-pilots-and-repeated-violations-of-flight-safety-norms
It's no secret Mr. Singh is super cozy with many ministers of the current govt.
Image

I don't have any sympathy for NG on the other hand, but only for Jet as an entity and their older employees who find themselves unemployable due to age factor restrictions on joining other airlines or industries.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7069
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:01 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
So I think you are right that the negative news hasn't played well. I am speculating here so feel free to not read on: basically Jet shutting down the way it did (and I don't mean NG getting kicked out - no one cares - if Jet would have become Vistara or any other FSC airline no one would have blinked) - the elites in BOM and to a lessor extent DEL & BLR were affected. No one bought the story line that it was a brilliant management move by Spice and Spice's ad in the newspaper praising Modi was just too much for pro Modi BJPers in BOM (remember Modi is very popular in BOM and is seen as pro business and against petty crony capitalism - even though everyone knows the BJP has to play the game). The Spice thing just was too public and the "perceived" pain too much for media/banking/rich people. Also the notion that India does not have a developed enough economy to support a private FSC with intl long haul has not played well either (call it foolish ego but that is how some feel). The biggest miscalculation was that Spice would be able to step in and fill in the Jet gaps. It probably can domestically, but no airline can fill the gap on long haul. So how ever you slice it, it looks like a big fail for Indian aviation to non anet frequent flyers in certain major cities. The FB posts by my family friends angry about the Spice/Jet thing are very real and these people are normal frequent flyers with no personal reason to love Jet or NG. Right or wrong all cities are not created equal. So the negative news seems stronger because it comes from BOM/DEL/BLR. But agreed someone in Mysore probably doesn't care. So net net what will happen. Who knows, the circus just continues. Maybe the GOI will allow a smaller Jet to come back that focuses on long haul with key banks at BOM and DEL to support it. So create a win for spice and a win for a FSC (I am not using the name Jet because I don't want to get into the save Jet back and forth - jet is dead - this is about a new FSC).

And to those who just want to go on a BOM rant, please save us all that. I am trying to analyze why the minister would say Jet will be saved and this process never dies. I don't buy that the GOI needs to make it look like they are trying. It has gone on long enough - kill Jet if that is what they want and move on. The point is they are not and keep sending mixed signals. So something is up. the question is what is driving this? Would love to hear your thoughts even if you disagree with me on every point I have said.


I think avair put it eloquently up-thread about playing multiple climaxes (with supporting news) so audience and historians will never be able to decipher. Five years later you come up one plausible cause, there will be ten different news articles negating it. Shills will copy-paste those news articles to put your theory down instantly.

India's aviation future belongs to Modi Air(Luft) on its third life, presently known as SpiceJet for next five years.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1019
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:08 pm

edealinfo wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:


What we can reasonably infer is that a new Jet will likely be designed with a singular focus.... using the India-AUH bilateral to serve as a feeder to AUH. So, I am speculating.... 10 to 15 daily flights to AUH from various points in India, in a best case scenario. But since, Indian rules have some strange formula that require that foreign capacity can not exceed 20 percent of domestic capacity..... they also need to work backwards and backfill that domestic capacity. So, instead of having 10 planes, they will need 50 planes in total to also cater to the domestic capacity requirements. aaargh but so be it.

Whether a new airline can be successfully built out of a dead Jet is a totally different matter.


I do agree that AUH feed will be important, but I don't think that is enough to bring Jet back. If you believe that the GOI cares about the perception of losing Jet, then it is long haul, a reasonable BOM hub and key business P2P routes which are what matters. Sure EY can have the AUH feed as their prize, but I think the GOI wants the LHR flights, HKG etc to resume. EY's play is really the long run. Their myopic short term view of push everything through AUH failed. AUH is there to offer more options to flyers and a global hub for smaller cities. EY will need DL/AF/VS/KL back (and EY is already in bed with AF/KL so I have no reason to believe it won't come back). Having said all of that, if the GOI doesn't care at all about the negative news or the lack of Indian carriers launching long haul, then there is no hope for Jet. The GOI and banks will let it close down. That is my 2 cents or Rs 1.38
 
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unrave
Posts: 2554
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:17 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:


India's aviation future belongs to Modi Air(Luft) on its third life, presently known as SpiceJet for next five years.

Thankfully a bankrupt pauper airline like Jet Airways will play no role in that future. A major victory for Indian air passengers.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
VTORD
Posts: 507
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:37 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
I am trying to analyze why the minister would say Jet will be saved and this process never dies.

Read the Economic Times article again. The headline is misleading when you read the text. Here is the relevant quote section:

India's new civil aviation minister said on Friday he is confident that airline capacity shortage problems following the grounding of Jet Airways Ltd will be solved, in the government's first comments about the issue since it was re-elected last month.
We are "very confident we can solve that problem," Hardeep Singh Puri said on the sidelines of a conference in New Delhi


Nowhere does it say or even mean "Jet will be saved" explicitly.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1019
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:41 pm

VTORD wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
I am trying to analyze why the minister would say Jet will be saved and this process never dies.

Read the Economic Times article again. The headline is misleading when you read the text. Here is the relevant quote section:

India's new civil aviation minister said on Friday he is confident that airline capacity shortage problems following the grounding of Jet Airways Ltd will be solved, in the government's first comments about the issue since it was re-elected last month.
We are "very confident we can solve that problem," Hardeep Singh Puri said on the sidelines of a conference in New Delhi


Nowhere does it say or even mean "Jet will be saved" explicitly.


Thanks for the clarification
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1315
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:47 pm

VTORD wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
I am trying to analyze why the minister would say Jet will be saved and this process never dies.

Read the Economic Times article again. The headline is misleading when you read the text. Here is the relevant quote section:

India's new civil aviation minister said on Friday he is confident that airline capacity shortage problems following the grounding of Jet Airways Ltd will be solved, in the government's first comments about the issue since it was re-elected last month.
We are "very confident we can solve that problem," Hardeep Singh Puri said on the sidelines of a conference in New Delhi


Nowhere does it say or even mean "Jet will be saved" explicitly.


Great job with the emphasis. This pretty much sums it up — Jet is dead.

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Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos