Antarius
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue May 14, 2019 1:58 pm

binayak wrote:
unrave wrote:
9W's long hauls were most profitable for them.

Citation needed.


Int'l ops were 67% of their revenues when the airline had 120 aircraft operating. (source : their financial results)
For earning 67% of their revenues they just needed 10 77Ws , 6 a330s and 8-10 737s i e 26 out of 120 aircraft . Now no airline in the world can announce route wise profits but obviously if the revenue contribution of those routes are high, they're lucrative indeed.


This does not make them profitable. Do we know what the associated operational and overhead spend was?
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD MEL DEN BLR MAA DEL KTM YYZ MEX
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue May 14, 2019 2:00 pm

binayak wrote:
So why do you think Vinay Dube continued to say that int'l ops were lucrative for the airline and that the airline should expand internationally during those days ?

I have no way of knowing why he said that. It was the same Vinay Dube who was chasing domestic market share to compete with IndiGo in 2017-18 much to the detriment of the financial health of the airline.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
behramjee
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue May 14, 2019 2:06 pm

9W wide body aircraft “net profits” in its hey day flying to LHR and HKG only.

YYZ JFK EWR CDG PVG BRU SFO AMS never made an “annual net profit”.
 
unnayan
Posts: 74
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue May 14, 2019 2:23 pm

One question for my understanding... Sahara acquisition was one of jets mistake.. but how were they haunting twelve years late too.. they did have some profitable quarters in between...

Again this is just for understanding..no bias
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue May 14, 2019 2:26 pm

unnayan wrote:
One question for my understanding... Sahara acquisition was one of jets mistake.. but how were they haunting twelve years late too.. they did have some profitable quarters in between...

Again this is just for understanding..no bias

That was only one of the many missteps.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
LAXLHR
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue May 14, 2019 2:30 pm

It always feels like 90% of the comments on the Indian threads are by people not from there, nor have never been to India. Having just spent the past week in the Taj hotel Santa Cruz - with some of the most stunning runway & apron views I can say that Jet is STILL trying to make a come back (from local news and media). India is a challenging place.

Spicejet has painted out the yellow tails of Jet 737s and slapped their name on the front side of the planes. They seem to be operating many if not ALL of the 737s formerly of Jet Airways.
BA JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL QQ UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR PG MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN PC LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 332 333 342 343 380
 
avier
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue May 14, 2019 2:47 pm

behramjee wrote:
9W wide body aircraft “net profits” in its hey day flying to LHR and HKG only.

YYZ JFK EWR CDG PVG BRU SFO AMS never made an “annual net profit”.


And what's your source for such a specific route wise breakdown you have provided?
I can agree with SFO/PVG, but for the rest..?
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue May 14, 2019 3:14 pm

CEO, HR head and Company Secretary all quit the airline today
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
VTORD
Posts: 465
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue May 14, 2019 4:33 pm

avier wrote:
It's not what everyone wants, only desi small town residents here on a.net. Since for them, they ANYWAYS have to take a one-stop or more to connect globally be it through Dubai, Doha, Singapore, Mumbai or Delhi. But for mega city pax it definitely does matter, especially for those who value time and don't want to be forced to spend time in a crowded shopping mall while making a stop-over.

What are you saying? That small town "desi" residents do not belong on a.net? OR small time desi residents do not "value time"?
Now I am not one of those WWWAS types but I am a small town desi. I fly EK precisely to save time not because I am enamored with shopping malls for god sake! What is wrong with that? Many times I make an extended halt in BOM, because I have deep family ties and roots there, then I fly non-ME3 options. It's literally that simple.

binayak wrote:
Time is there for everyone to waste after all !! Now corps will fly the longer route one stop too. That's what most of the people here want i e literally gift the entire int'l traffic from India to ME3 .

I don't think anyone wants that. But if the ME3 are convenient so be it. That does not automatically mean abhorrence for Jet or BOM. You are taking this personally. Sure in the short term it will be a PITA but I am sure in the long run, the corps will be fine and Virat Kohli and the boys won't lose the cup because they had a stop over in DXB! Cheers! :lol:
 
vadodara
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue May 14, 2019 7:29 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
vadodara wrote:
I have 1,000,000miles on Jet. Where can I cash my miles?


Convert them to Amazon / Flipkart vouchers. As liquid as it gets.


Precisely my point; no value in terms of flying.

Hence no value in accumulating future miles in Jet Airways.
 
vadodara
Posts: 866
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue May 14, 2019 7:34 pm

VTORD wrote:
avier wrote:
It's not what everyone wants, only desi small town residents here on a.net. Since for them, they ANYWAYS have to take a one-stop or more to connect globally be it through Dubai, Doha, Singapore, Mumbai or Delhi. But for mega city pax it definitely does matter, especially for those who value time and don't want to be forced to spend time in a crowded shopping mall while making a stop-over.

What are you saying? That small town "desi" residents do not belong on a.net? OR small time desi residents do not "value time"?
Now I am not one of those WWWAS types but I am a small town desi. I fly EK precisely to save time not because I am enamored with shopping malls for god sake! What is wrong with that? Many times I make an extended halt in BOM, because I have deep family ties and roots there, then I fly non-ME3 options. It's literally that simple.
lol:


Besides what you just articulated, the simple fact is:
a) BOM just does not have that much premium traffic
b) growth happens to be in secondary cities

My moniker should indicate I am not exactly WWWAS, but data has proved
a) WWWAS guys we’re right
b) BOM hub guys drank too much bewda; the fact Dubey and all who quit Jet today should sober them up
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue May 14, 2019 8:30 pm

AI receiving first allocation of Jet's unused rights.

5,700 seats/week to Dubai
5,000 to DOH
4,600 to London (slots?)

This leaves another 6,300 to be allocated to Dubai. In effect, AI can now partially block EK's ambitions.

This is not what I expected or predicted. I will have to consider this more.

Lightsaber
You know nothing John Snow.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Tue May 14, 2019 11:48 pm

More allocation information. Slots allocated by airline:

SpiceJet. 130, 68 at BOM
Indigo 127, "majority at DEL"
Vistara 110, "majority at BOM"
GoAir:. 44
AirAsia 42
Air India 26

https://www.financialexpress.com/indust ... 8555/lite/

My thoughts is SpiceJet has received the press, but Vistara is getting the biggest boost as a small airline with 110 slits.

AirIndia is racking in the international (see above post of mine), so they are fine.

Lightsaber
You know nothing John Snow.
 
Antarius
Posts: 1318
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 15, 2019 1:05 am

lightsaber wrote:
More allocation information. Slots allocated by airline:

SpiceJet. 130, 68 at BOM
Indigo 127, "majority at DEL"
Vistara 110, "majority at BOM"
GoAir:. 44
AirAsia 42
Air India 26

https://www.financialexpress.com/indust ... 8555/lite/

My thoughts is SpiceJet has received the press, but Vistara is getting the biggest boost as a small airline with 110 slits.

AirIndia is racking in the international (see above post of mine), so they are fine.

Lightsaber


CRONYISM. FACTS BE DAMNED ITS CRONYISM.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD MEL DEN BLR MAA DEL KTM YYZ MEX
 
Antarius
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Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 15, 2019 1:06 am

vadodara wrote:
VTORD wrote:
avier wrote:
It's not what everyone wants, only desi small town residents here on a.net. Since for them, they ANYWAYS have to take a one-stop or more to connect globally be it through Dubai, Doha, Singapore, Mumbai or Delhi. But for mega city pax it definitely does matter, especially for those who value time and don't want to be forced to spend time in a crowded shopping mall while making a stop-over.

What are you saying? That small town "desi" residents do not belong on a.net? OR small time desi residents do not "value time"?
Now I am not one of those WWWAS types but I am a small town desi. I fly EK precisely to save time not because I am enamored with shopping malls for god sake! What is wrong with that? Many times I make an extended halt in BOM, because I have deep family ties and roots there, then I fly non-ME3 options. It's literally that simple.
lol:


Besides what you just articulated, the simple fact is:
a) BOM just does not have that much premium traffic
b) growth happens to be in secondary cities

My moniker should indicate I am not exactly WWWAS, but data has proved
a) WWWAS guys we’re right
b) BOM hub guys drank too much bewda; the fact Dubey and all who quit Jet today should sober them up


What is WWWAS?
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD MEL DEN BLR MAA DEL KTM YYZ MEX
 
EmoticonsAllDay
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 15, 2019 1:14 am

unrave wrote:
CEO, HR head and Company Secretary all quit the airline today


So the saying, "Rats flee before the ship sinks" still remains true. :rotfl:
 
jfk777
Posts: 6853
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 15, 2019 1:21 am

What has happened to the Jet 777 ? Manu stories of 737 getting repoed but nothing on the 777.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 15, 2019 1:49 am

Antarius wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
More allocation information. Slots allocated by airline:

SpiceJet. 130, 68 at BOM
Indigo 127, "majority at DEL"
Vistara 110, "majority at BOM"
GoAir:. 44
AirAsia 42
Air India 26

https://www.financialexpress.com/indust ... 8555/lite/

My thoughts is SpiceJet has received the press, but Vistara is getting the biggest boost as a small airline with 110 slits.

AirIndia is racking in the international (see above post of mine), so they are fine.

Lightsaber


CRONYISM. FACTS BE DAMNED ITS CRONYISM.


People were going by what was being said on this forum - that it would be first come first serve. I have always said they should allocated to ensure max competition. So am very happy Vistara got a good amount of slots in Bom. That said, nothing in this process is sane and makes sense. I will say IMHO the press doesn’t seem to have supported Spice in its quest. Perhaps the powers that be had a change of heart. But in the end who cares. We discussed it based on what people said, and now the results are out so good. Still doesn’t solve the shortage of long haul capacity (and just to preempt the response - not talking about DXB and short haul international)

Also is it weird that the banks haven’t commented on the Jet bids?
 
JOYA380B747
Posts: 757
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:31 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 15, 2019 2:25 am

vadodara wrote:
VTORD wrote:
avier wrote:
It's not what everyone wants, only desi small town residents here on a.net. Since for them, they ANYWAYS have to take a one-stop or more to connect globally be it through Dubai, Doha, Singapore, Mumbai or Delhi. But for mega city pax it definitely does matter, especially for those who value time and don't want to be forced to spend time in a crowded shopping mall while making a stop-over.

What are you saying? That small town "desi" residents do not belong on a.net? OR small time desi residents do not "value time"?
Now I am not one of those WWWAS types but I am a small town desi. I fly EK precisely to save time not because I am enamored with shopping malls for god sake! What is wrong with that? Many times I make an extended halt in BOM, because I have deep family ties and roots there, then I fly non-ME3 options. It's literally that simple.
lol:


Besides what you just articulated, the simple fact is:
a) BOM just does not have that much premium traffic
b) growth happens to be in secondary cities

My moniker should indicate I am not exactly WWWAS, but data has proved
a) WWWAS guys we’re right
b) BOM hub guys drank too much bewda; the fact Dubey and all who quit Jet today should sober them up


It is quite a commonplace thing to see these happen. According to most of the "mega city pax" (esp BOM & DEL) there is nothing much going on outside their concrete jungle. Folks in the rest of the country, according to their imagination, are either playing ping-pong in their offices or having picnic outdoors. Humility is a trait that has never been welcome in these cities, making them forget where the raw materials, building blocks and driving force behind their "mega pax" status originates from. Sadly this "bubble" is too strong.

Antarius wrote:
What is WWWAS?


https://twitter.com/wwwasurat?lang=en


jfk777 wrote:
What has happened to the Jet 777 ? Manu stories of 737 getting repoed but nothing on the 777.


I have a scary feeling that some of them might bite the dust eventually, if UK does not go through with acquiring all/some of them. Nobody really knows as of now.
India's biggest loss w.r.t global aviation (so far) - Being an Australasia-Europe stopover.
 
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unrave
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 15, 2019 1:44 pm

Aviation Ministry to meet all airlines on May 17th to discuss re-allocation of international routes of Jet Airways.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 15, 2019 5:06 pm

This article just makes the full process look like a joke / facade. Why to just say there are no legitimate bids and end it. Why keep going in circles. If all the unpaid vendor dues are so high and need to be repaid and no one wants to pay it, then end the process. Is the process extended just for domestic reasons to make people think everything was done?

https://www.firstpost.com/business/jet- ... 34911.html


While I would be shocked if the hindujas entered Indian aviation, they do have a long history in the UAE. Maybe the reason EY reached out is because of Hindujas holdings in the UAE
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 334306.cms
 
aarbee
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 15, 2019 5:15 pm

Antarius wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
More allocation information. Slots allocated by airline:

SpiceJet. 130, 68 at BOM
Indigo 127, "majority at DEL"
Vistara 110, "majority at BOM"
GoAir:. 44
AirAsia 42
Air India 26

https://www.financialexpress.com/indust ... 8555/lite/

My thoughts is SpiceJet has received the press, but Vistara is getting the biggest boost as a small airline with 110 slits.

AirIndia is racking in the international (see above post of mine), so they are fine.

Lightsaber


CRONYISM. FACTS BE DAMNED ITS CRONYISM.


Exactly my thought. :) Eager to see how this is twisted.
Love the AIXes
 
aarbee
Posts: 240
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 15, 2019 5:20 pm

unrave wrote:
Aviation Ministry to meet all airlines on May 17th to discuss re-allocation of international routes of Jet Airways.

Why? What's the point? Out here
"Spice and Indigo have to]tally flailed in coming up with a plan to replace Jet’s international capacity."
Why bother? :?
Love the AIXes
 
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Spiderguy252
Posts: 1057
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 15, 2019 5:50 pm

lightsaber wrote:
AI receiving first allocation of Jet's unused rights.

5,700 seats/week to Dubai
5,000 to DOH
4,600 to London (slots?)

This leaves another 6,300 to be allocated to Dubai. In effect, AI can now partially block EK's ambitions.

This is not what I expected or predicted. I will have to consider this more.

Lightsaber


Air India does not have the metal to take advantage of these, unless they go against their grain and get all their frames in service at the same time.
Vahroone
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 15, 2019 8:24 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
AI receiving first allocation of Jet's unused rights.

5,700 seats/week to Dubai
5,000 to DOH
4,600 to London (slots?)

This leaves another 6,300 to be allocated to Dubai. In effect, AI can now partially block EK's ambitions.

This is not what I expected or predicted. I will have to consider this more.

Lightsaber


Air India does not have the metal to take advantage of these, unless they go against their grain and get all their frames in service at the same time.

IIRC, AI plans to have 25 more frames opperating within six months.

By allocating to AI, EK doesn't have a partner for these seats. This constrains EK's ambitions in India. I doubt AI will fill the capacity quickly, so in effect a large number of competing seats for an extended time frame. If there is healthy O&D demand (for example, workers), AI will meet that demand.

In effect, SpiceJet's alliance with EK was severely diluted. Same with QR.

The London allocation confuses me as AI doesn't have the LHR slot.

So I agree AI is unlikely to reactivate those aircraft timely. Cest la vie. It looks like international fares in/out of India will remain elevated.

Lightsaber
You know nothing John Snow.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 6975
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 15, 2019 8:44 pm

Spiderguy252 wrote:
...
Air India does not have the metal to take advantage of these, unless they go against their grain and get all their frames in service at the same time.


Don't they have half-a-dozen AOG WBs? AI should lease A321LR and signup for A321XLR.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 825
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 15, 2019 9:37 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Spiderguy252 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
AI receiving first allocation of Jet's unused rights.

5,700 seats/week to Dubai
5,000 to DOH
4,600 to London (slots?)

This leaves another 6,300 to be allocated to Dubai. In effect, AI can now partially block EK's ambitions.

This is not what I expected or predicted. I will have to consider this more.

Lightsaber


Air India does not have the metal to take advantage of these, unless they go against their grain and get all their frames in service at the same time.

IIRC, AI plans to have 25 more frames opperating within six months.

By allocating to AI, EK doesn't have a partner for these seats. This constrains EK's ambitions in India. I doubt AI will fill the capacity quickly, so in effect a large number of competing seats for an extended time frame. If there is healthy O&D demand (for example, workers), AI will meet that demand.

In effect, SpiceJet's alliance with EK was severely diluted. Same with QR.

The London allocation confuses me as AI doesn't have the LHR slot.

So I agree AI is unlikely to reactivate those aircraft timely. Cest la vie. It looks like international fares in/out of India will remain elevated.

Lightsaber


If we gave the GOI the benefit f the doubt (I cannot believe I am saying this), by giving it to AI they essentially prevent the ME3 from taking advantage of the situation by giving a sweetheart short term deal to Indian carriers. I hope EU or US carriers step in to fill the gaps. Really glad DL announced. KL needs to announce BOM daily. Finally hope Vistara wet leases the 77W until their 789s come. One of the 9W London slots was from VS. So maybe they could partner with them for that and perhaps get one 9pm LHR departure for a DEL flight (those are usually available for new entrants).
 
Antarius
Posts: 1318
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 15, 2019 9:50 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Spiderguy252 wrote:

Air India does not have the metal to take advantage of these, unless they go against their grain and get all their frames in service at the same time.

IIRC, AI plans to have 25 more frames opperating within six months.

By allocating to AI, EK doesn't have a partner for these seats. This constrains EK's ambitions in India. I doubt AI will fill the capacity quickly, so in effect a large number of competing seats for an extended time frame. If there is healthy O&D demand (for example, workers), AI will meet that demand.

In effect, SpiceJet's alliance with EK was severely diluted. Same with QR.

The London allocation confuses me as AI doesn't have the LHR slot.

So I agree AI is unlikely to reactivate those aircraft timely. Cest la vie. It looks like international fares in/out of India will remain elevated.

Lightsaber


If we gave the GOI the benefit f the doubt (I cannot believe I am saying this), by giving it to AI they essentially prevent the ME3 from taking advantage of the situation by giving a sweetheart short term deal to Indian carriers. I hope EU or US carriers step in to fill the gaps. Really glad DL announced. KL needs to announce BOM daily. Finally hope Vistara wet leases the 77W until their 789s come. One of the 9W London slots was from VS. So maybe they could partner with them for that and perhaps get one 9pm LHR departure for a DEL flight (those are usually available for new entrants).


The goal of a government is to do best for the people, not prop up arbitrary corporations. Why exactly is it ok that Delta is there and EU carriers but not the ME3?

If the ME3 serve the needs of the traveling populace, then so be it. If not, someone else will fill the void. Your attitude is what's led to decades of Air India quality aviation.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD MEL DEN BLR MAA DEL KTM YYZ MEX
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 15, 2019 10:57 pm

Antarius wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
IIRC, AI plans to have 25 more frames opperating within six months.

By allocating to AI, EK doesn't have a partner for these seats. This constrains EK's ambitions in India. I doubt AI will fill the capacity quickly, so in effect a large number of competing seats for an extended time frame. If there is healthy O&D demand (for example, workers), AI will meet that demand.

In effect, SpiceJet's alliance with EK was severely diluted. Same with QR.

The London allocation confuses me as AI doesn't have the LHR slot.

So I agree AI is unlikely to reactivate those aircraft timely. Cest la vie. It looks like international fares in/out of India will remain elevated.

Lightsaber


If we gave the GOI the benefit f the doubt (I cannot believe I am saying this), by giving it to AI they essentially prevent the ME3 from taking advantage of the situation by giving a sweetheart short term deal to Indian carriers. I hope EU or US carriers step in to fill the gaps. Really glad DL announced. KL needs to announce BOM daily. Finally hope Vistara wet leases the 77W until their 789s come. One of the 9W London slots was from VS. So maybe they could partner with them for that and perhaps get one 9pm LHR departure for a DEL flight (those are usually available for new entrants).


The goal of a government is to do best for the people, not prop up arbitrary corporations. Why exactly is it ok that Delta is there and EU carriers but not the ME3?

If the ME3 serve the needs of the traveling populace, then so be it. If not, someone else will fill the void. Your attitude is what's led to decades of Air India quality aviation.


Exactly. So what is best for its people. I would say India is best served through more jobs and global connectivity that fosters business and tourists. I want everyone to push the GOI and state go to to lower taxes and streamline aviation. I think most non Anet people would say it’s a pretty pro growth pro consumer pro india approach. The problem are actually those who just want a cheap flight to DXB and high taxes on Indian aviation. But look I am not saying don’t fly through DXB. Go ahead, the ME3 have a ton of seats to india. The problem is not ME3 access but the fact that Indian airlines aren’t stable. Jfk-BOM nonstop is good for the Indian economy. Ek is free to turn one of its 5 BOM-DXB flight to add flight to other Indian cities. But oh wait they won’t.
 
Antarius
Posts: 1318
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 15, 2019 11:06 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Antarius wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

If we gave the GOI the benefit f the doubt (I cannot believe I am saying this), by giving it to AI they essentially prevent the ME3 from taking advantage of the situation by giving a sweetheart short term deal to Indian carriers. I hope EU or US carriers step in to fill the gaps. Really glad DL announced. KL needs to announce BOM daily. Finally hope Vistara wet leases the 77W until their 789s come. One of the 9W London slots was from VS. So maybe they could partner with them for that and perhaps get one 9pm LHR departure for a DEL flight (those are usually available for new entrants).


The goal of a government is to do best for the people, not prop up arbitrary corporations. Why exactly is it ok that Delta is there and EU carriers but not the ME3?

If the ME3 serve the needs of the traveling populace, then so be it. If not, someone else will fill the void. Your attitude is what's led to decades of Air India quality aviation.


Exactly. So what is best for its people. I would say India is best served through more jobs and global connectivity that fosters business and tourists. I want everyone to push the GOI and state go to to lower taxes and streamline aviation. I think most non Anet people would say it’s a pretty pro growth pro consumer pro india approach. The problem are actually those who just want a cheap flight to DXB and high taxes on Indian aviation. But look I am not saying don’t fly through DXB. Go ahead, the ME3 have a ton of seats to india. The problem is not ME3 access but the fact that Indian airlines aren’t stable. Jfk-BOM nonstop is good for the Indian economy. Ek is free to turn one of its 5 BOM-DXB flight to add flight to other Indian cities. But oh wait they won’t.


No one is arguing for high taxes. The government should remove regulatory hurdles and then step back. Indian airlines being unstable is a function partially of the government and partially stupidity like 9W leadership and Air India aimlessly flying loss leading routes. Who's going to pick up the slack? Air France ?talk about a crap airline from a consumer perspective.

Easy connectivity to India is good for the country, be it via DXB, HKG or non stop from the US.

Theres barely ANY connectivity between China and India - that's because CZ cannot expand as the bilateral are maxed out.Who exactly is that helping?
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD MEL DEN BLR MAA DEL KTM YYZ MEX
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 15, 2019 11:19 pm

Antarius wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Antarius wrote:

The goal of a government is to do best for the people, not prop up arbitrary corporations. Why exactly is it ok that Delta is there and EU carriers but not the ME3?

If the ME3 serve the needs of the traveling populace, then so be it. If not, someone else will fill the void. Your attitude is what's led to decades of Air India quality aviation.


Exactly. So what is best for its people. I would say India is best served through more jobs and global connectivity that fosters business and tourists. I want everyone to push the GOI and state go to to lower taxes and streamline aviation. I think most non Anet people would say it’s a pretty pro growth pro consumer pro india approach. The problem are actually those who just want a cheap flight to DXB and high taxes on Indian aviation. But look I am not saying don’t fly through DXB. Go ahead, the ME3 have a ton of seats to india. The problem is not ME3 access but the fact that Indian airlines aren’t stable. Jfk-BOM nonstop is good for the Indian economy. Ek is free to turn one of its 5 BOM-DXB flight to add flight to other Indian cities. But oh wait they won’t.


No one is arguing for high taxes. The government should remove regulatory hurdles and then step back. Indian airlines being unstable is a function partially of the government and partially stupidity like 9W leadership and Air India aimlessly flying loss leading routes. Who's going to pick up the slack? Air France ?talk about a crap airline from a consumer perspective.

Easy connectivity to India is good for the country, be it via DXB, HKG or non stop from the US.

Theres barely ANY connectivity between China and India - that's because CZ cannot expand as the bilateral are maxed out.Who exactly is that helping?


You believe in open skies, I believe in a more managed approach to each their own. Countries like Canada, China, France, Germany etc all try and balance helping their airlines and cheap fares. The ME3 are usually in the cross hairs. Nothing wrong with having that opinion just like there is nothing wrong with yours. IMHO. India is not Singapore nor is it a basket case country that has given up on aviation. So I am not for total open skies. I would love to see india incentivize indian, EU, African carries to start new nonstops.

We can debate China on an other thread, but india is sadly in no position to open up more. China won’t give slots and their airlines want to offer $400 fares between india and us. They are heavily subsidized by the Chinese govt. how can indian carriers compete. Indian carriers have a lot of room to expand if they get slots. Even the great and ungrateful DXB won’t give slots to Indian carriers. Why give them more flights?
 
edealinfo
Posts: 803
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Wed May 15, 2019 11:20 pm

Antarius wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Antarius wrote:

The goal of a government is to do best for the people, not prop up arbitrary corporations. Why exactly is it ok that Delta is there and EU carriers but not the ME3?

If the ME3 serve the needs of the traveling populace, then so be it. If not, someone else will fill the void. Your attitude is what's led to decades of Air India quality aviation.


Exactly. So what is best for its people. I would say India is best served through more jobs and global connectivity that fosters business and tourists. I want everyone to push the GOI and state go to to lower taxes and streamline aviation. I think most non Anet people would say it’s a pretty pro growth pro consumer pro india approach. The problem are actually those who just want a cheap flight to DXB and high taxes on Indian aviation. But look I am not saying don’t fly through DXB. Go ahead, the ME3 have a ton of seats to india. The problem is not ME3 access but the fact that Indian airlines aren’t stable. Jfk-BOM nonstop is good for the Indian economy. Ek is free to turn one of its 5 BOM-DXB flight to add flight to other Indian cities. But oh wait they won’t.


No one is arguing for high taxes. The government should remove regulatory hurdles and then step back. Indian airlines being unstable is a function partially of the government and partially stupidity like 9W leadership and Air India aimlessly flying loss leading routes. Who's going to pick up the slack? Air France ?talk about a crap airline from a consumer perspective.

Easy connectivity to India is good for the country, be it via DXB, HKG or non stop from the US.

Theres barely ANY connectivity between China and India - that's because CZ cannot expand as the bilateral are maxed out.Who exactly is that helping?

Why is Air France considered bad from a consumer perspective?
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2391
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 16, 2019 9:10 am

DGCA de-registers 83 aircraft of Jet Airways

-de-registers 67 B737s, 8 ATRs, 2 B777 and 6 A330s
-considering requests for de-registeration of 11 more planes
-considering requests for de-registeration of 3 B737s, 6 ATRs, 2 B777s

Now unless you are an advanced computer science student you should know that deregistering an aircraft does not expunge the liabilities associated with that aircraft.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
edealinfo
Posts: 803
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 16, 2019 12:16 pm

unrave wrote:
DGCA de-registers 83 aircraft of Jet Airways

-de-registers 67 B737s, 8 ATRs, 2 B777 and 6 A330s
-considering requests for de-registeration of 11 more planes
-considering requests for de-registeration of 3 B737s, 6 ATRs, 2 B777s

Now unless you are an advanced computer science student you should know that deregistering an aircraft does not expunge the liabilities associated with that aircraft.

Aren’t the B777 Jet owned aircraft? So, how could it be deregistered? Did the ownership change and if so who is ownership now with on these 4 planes?

So it seems that 83 plus 11 or 94 aircraft are deregistered. How many planes are still left with Jet?

I am curious why Vistara opted for the B777 when it could have picked Jet’s A330 which would have allowed their A 320 pilots to be cross trained to the A 340.

Could the 4 B777 be heading to Vistara ?
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 6975
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 16, 2019 12:30 pm

edealinfo wrote:
I am curious why Vistara opted for the B777


Hiring 9W 777 pilots is easy for UK. Also if the rumor that UK crew is being trained on 787 by Singapore Airline is true, it is easy to convert them to 777.

Regarding who is repoing 77Ws, it could be Goyal cashing in. A shell owner asks a (brand name W) trust manager to manage the asset and a (brand name C)servicer to manage the lease. Very easy to hide the actual owner, by the time CBI follows the paper trail, too late.
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2391
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 16, 2019 12:37 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

Regarding who is repoing 77Ws, it could be Goyal cashing in. A shell owner asks a (brand name W) trust manager to manage the asset and a (brand name C)servicer to manage the lease. Very easy to hide the actual owner, by the time CBI follows the paper trail, too late.

Imagination - George RR Martin
Logic - Ameerpet
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2391
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 16, 2019 12:38 pm

edealinfo wrote:

I am curious why Vistara opted for the B777 when it could have picked Jet’s A330 which would have allowed their A 320 pilots to be cross trained to the A 340.

Could the 4 B777 be heading to Vistara ?

Because Vistara's future long haul fleet is B787
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
edealinfo
Posts: 803
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 16, 2019 12:39 pm

business Standard newspaper is reporting that the Hinduja’s are seeking the consent of Naresh Goyal to join Etihad’s bid to take over Jet. even Bollywood couldn’t have come up with a more wired plot.
 
vadodara
Posts: 866
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 16, 2019 1:10 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Exactly. So what is best for its people. I would say India is best served through more jobs and global connectivity that fosters business and tourists. I want everyone to push the GOI and state go to to lower taxes and streamline aviation. I think most non Anet people would say it’s a pretty pro growth pro consumer pro india approach. The problem are actually those who just want a cheap flight to DXB and high taxes on Indian aviation. But look I am not saying don’t fly through DXB. Go ahead, the ME3 have a ton of seats to india. The problem is not ME3 access but the fact that Indian airlines aren’t stable. Jfk-BOM nonstop is good for the Indian economy. Ek is free to turn one of its 5 BOM-DXB flight to add flight to other Indian cities. But oh wait they won’t.


Look if India wants to ‘protect’ domestic carriers or offer access on basis of reciprocity, then do so by all means.

Pick cities above a certain threshold of service for access control, I.e. cap airports like BOM/DEL/BLR at say 2 flights a day up to x passengers.

Don’t block entry into 2nd or 3rd tier cities.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 16, 2019 1:29 pm

vadodara wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Exactly. So what is best for its people. I would say India is best served through more jobs and global connectivity that fosters business and tourists. I want everyone to push the GOI and state go to to lower taxes and streamline aviation. I think most non Anet people would say it’s a pretty pro growth pro consumer pro india approach. The problem are actually those who just want a cheap flight to DXB and high taxes on Indian aviation. But look I am not saying don’t fly through DXB. Go ahead, the ME3 have a ton of seats to india. The problem is not ME3 access but the fact that Indian airlines aren’t stable. Jfk-BOM nonstop is good for the Indian economy. Ek is free to turn one of its 5 BOM-DXB flight to add flight to other Indian cities. But oh wait they won’t.


Look if India wants to ‘protect’ domestic carriers or offer access on basis of reciprocity, then do so by all means.

Pick cities above a certain threshold of service for access control, I.e. cap airports like BOM/DEL/BLR at say 2 flights a day up to x passengers.

Don’t block entry into 2nd or 3rd tier cities.


Vadodora please see my direct quote above "Ek is free to turn one of its 5 BOM-DXB flight to add flight to other Indian cities" - I can't think of very many people in DEL/BOM/BLR that want more ME connectivity. People want more nonstop connectivity to different global cities and more airline choice. Being dominated by EK is not a goal. Also, zero people are saying to block 2nd/3rd tier cities. But EK's overall seats need to be capped. They should reallocate flights. Also EK should have partnered with an Indian carrier a long time ago. This Indian partner would have helped add cities. But oh wait EK didn't. They thought they could just take anything they wanted and keep fares low and ensure there would be no strong Indian carrier. Also what are 2nd/3rd tier cities doing to attract carriers / flights? High taxes, red tape, bad infrastructure doesn't help. Finally, I feel like people totally discard the fact that a potential savior of smaller cities can be strong home carriers. Connectivity doesn't have to be just to an international city (pride aside). DEL, BOM, HYD, BLR, etc pick the airport (the best facilities should win). As DTW2HYD has said, Jet's demise probably sets HYD back a few years before it gets another nonstop to the EU. HYD already has strong ME3 coverage but that doesn't serve everyone (like people going/coming from DTW or who are sky team elites).
 
hohd
Posts: 720
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 16, 2019 1:29 pm

EK cannot expand to any more cities as they are maxed on the number of cities and they wont cut back from BOM to reallocate to cities they are already flying. The GOI strategy is good, helping AI the maximum and other airlines are getting some DXB seats too.

Now will the Jet's slots at DXB go automatically to AI and other Indian carriers, is the question. Unless and until Indian carriers get some good slots at DXB, no more expansion to UAE carriers ant that should include even code shares, with Spice Jet.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 16, 2019 1:32 pm

edealinfo wrote:
business Standard newspaper is reporting that the Hinduja’s are seeking the consent of Naresh Goyal to join Etihad’s bid to take over Jet. even Bollywood couldn’t have come up with a more wired plot.


First off wow if true (but I don't believe it). Second, why? If I take all the posts on this forum has close to fact, Jet is myriad is so much debt and so many creditors that it would be nearly impossible to claw out of. So what is the point. I think the GOI should just facilitate Vistara wet leasing Jet's 77W on the cheap and move on. Also the Hindujas are no oil rich country. Their money is their family's. Unless the banks are once again cutting big checks. This makes no sense.
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2391
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 16, 2019 1:34 pm

vadodara wrote:

Look if India wants to ‘protect’ domestic carriers or offer access on basis of reciprocity, then do so by all means.

Pick cities above a certain threshold of service for access control, I.e. cap airports like BOM/DEL/BLR at say 2 flights a day up to x passengers.

Don’t block entry into 2nd or 3rd tier cities.

That is exactly what Australia does. Capped rights to capital cities and unrestricted/generous access to smaller cities. Only in India we see this mentality of forcing everyone from smaller cities to fly through large Indian airports dumps
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2391
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 16, 2019 1:40 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:

I can't think of very many people in DEL/BOM/BLR that want more ME connectivity. People want more nonstop connectivity to different global cities and more airline choice

I can't think of very many people in DEL/BOM/BLR who pick Indian carriers over ME3.
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 6975
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 16, 2019 2:03 pm

hohd wrote:
...
Now will the Jet's slots at DXB go automatically to AI and other Indian carriers, is the question. Unless and until Indian carriers get some good slots at DXB, no more expansion to UAE carriers ant that should include even code shares, with Spice Jet.


I think GoI just allocated unused (I am reading unused as prior to demise, not because of demise) India BASA Jet seats to AI and others. India cannot give DXB slots to anybody.

IMHO, this new is just a smoke screen to make it look like AI and others are getting some of the spoils.

When the time comes to releasing 9W's active(as of suspension) there will be a feast.
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2391
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 16, 2019 2:10 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
I think GoI just allocated unused (I am reading unused as prior to demise, not because of demise) India BASA Jet seats to AI and others.

FACTCHECK: No bilateral seat has been redistributed so far, used or unused. The GoI is holding discussions with all airlines to arrive at a consensus on how to do it.
Always factcheck kids!
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 16, 2019 2:17 pm

unrave wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

I can't think of very many people in DEL/BOM/BLR that want more ME connectivity. People want more nonstop connectivity to different global cities and more airline choice

I can't think of very many people in DEL/BOM/BLR who pick Indian carriers over ME3.


Wasn't Jet's international market share out of BOM like 30% or 35% and most of Jet's pax are India origin. Also AI still carries pax out of BOM even with much fewer flights. So unclear where you are getting your facts. BOM has a ton of airline choices so let's not forget all the international carriers aside from the ME3. The binary choice seems to be ME3 or Indian/ non ME3 carriers. BOM/DEL are good cities to see what Indian pax actual preferences are (meaning are the ME shopping hubs really an attraction). For the last few years, the likes of EY and OR (EK I don't monitor since it is not in an alliance) offered $800 fares to the US. Hardly a ringing endorsement in favor of the ME3 when pax have choice. If EK is the only intl airlines serving your city, I totally get the premium. But from/to BOM/DEL, the ME3 carry more bulk/discount fare pax then premium fares. But to avoid the normal back an forth, I will say this - do the ME have value, yes; do some pax like them, yes; should they fly to BOM/India, yes; are they God's gift to India. NO.
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2391
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Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 16, 2019 3:13 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Wasn't Jet's international market share out of BOM like 30% or 35% and most of Jet's pax are India origin. Also AI still carries pax out of BOM even with much fewer flights. So unclear where you are getting your facts. BOM has a ton of airline choices so let's not forget all the international carriers aside from the ME3. The binary choice seems to be ME3 or Indian/ non ME3 carriers. BOM/DEL are good cities to see what Indian pax actual preferences are (meaning are the ME shopping hubs really an attraction). For the last few years, the likes of EY and OR (EK I don't monitor since it is not in an alliance) offered $800 fares to the US. Hardly a ringing endorsement in favor of the ME3 when pax have choice. If EK is the only intl airlines serving your city, I totally get the premium. But from/to BOM/DEL, the ME3 carry more bulk/discount fare pax then premium fares. But to avoid the normal back an forth, I will say this - do the ME have value, yes; do some pax like them, yes; should they fly to BOM/India, yes; are they God's gift to India. NO.

Plural of anecdote is not data.
The fact that the two Indian carriers that flew long haul from Indian "hub" airports are in financial ruin speaks about the viability of these airports to function as hubs. The are about a dozen competent profitable well run major airlines based at airports around India who are more than willing to provide connectivity to airports outside of the big 5. The GoI should let them fly and not force everyone to use Indian airports (where again these travellers end up flying non Indian airlines anyway)
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
edealinfo
Posts: 803
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 16, 2019 3:19 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
business Standard newspaper is reporting that the Hinduja’s are seeking the consent of Naresh Goyal to join Etihad’s bid to take over Jet. even Bollywood couldn’t have come up with a more wired plot.


First off wow if true (but I don't believe it). Second, why? If I take all the posts on this forum has close to fact, Jet is myriad is so much debt and so many creditors that it would be nearly impossible to claw out of. So what is the point. I think the GOI should just facilitate Vistara wet leasing Jet's 77W on the cheap and move on. Also the Hindujas are no oil rich country. Their money is their family's. Unless the banks are once again cutting big checks. This makes no sense.


See for yourself

https://www.google.com/amp/s/wap.busine ... 044_1.html


The Hindujas will soon learn how owning an airline is the fastest way for a billionaire to be reduced to a mere millionaire
 
binayak
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Jet Airways: Shutdown

Thu May 16, 2019 3:51 pm

unrave wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:

I can't think of very many people in DEL/BOM/BLR that want more ME connectivity. People want more nonstop connectivity to different global cities and more airline choice

I can't think of very many people in DEL/BOM/BLR who pick Indian carriers over ME3.


All my colleagues and friends at BOM take ME3 only if their destination isn't connected non stop to BOM (Even for one stops, they prioritise FFP to anything else. One of them is a OW gold and was jp platinum . He doesn't take EK after EK-9W partnership stopped because of miles. Currently he prioritises QR among the ME3 because of OW status)
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