Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
CIDFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 2158
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:46 am

https://www.wjhg.com/content/news/Alleg ... 56761.html

Interesting they must be poised for some more growth there. Will be curious to see what the design will be like.
 
tys777
Moderator
Posts: 541
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:43 am

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:15 am

I'm also curious on the design. Will it be bare bones ULCC? Something a little nice? Will this give them exclusivity at the airport preventing anyone that may want to start service from doing so?
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4343
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:15 am

Aside from the fact that this is a terribly written article ("expand the flight path"? / "airway investing"?), this is an interesting development for the airport. The official mentioned in the article claims that this is the first time they're aware of that an airline has paid for a terminal, but I believe Allegiant had a similar arrangement with Phoenix-Mesa Gateway. This sort of arrangement seems to work well for them, so VPS is just the most recent beneficiary.

I'm interested to see how exactly this will develop, because they're pretty hemmed in on both sides of the existing terminal. Unless the Air Force gives up more land, this will presumably be a fairly simple building connected to the existing terminal with ground load gates, but I don't see how they'd have room for much more than four or five stands.

In any event, it's good to see Allegiant make this level of commitment. VPS got jerked around with Vision's lame attempt at the Allegiant model a few years ago, so this should spark some consistent long term growth for the airport. However, given the land constraints for the terminal area, and the fact that the Air Force probably doesn't want to compete with increasing commercial traffic on its runways, the opportunities for growth have to be fairly limited.
 
TYSflyer
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:44 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:20 am

Very interesting! They do operate out of the ground level of the current terminal at VPS, and it seemed like there was plenty of seating. However, I believe there are only 2-3 gates down there. I’m curious to see if it will be completely separate from the current terminal or just a new addition on the current terminal.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4343
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:23 am

tys777 wrote:
I'm also curious on the design. Will it be bare bones ULCC? Something a little nice? Will this give them exclusivity at the airport preventing anyone that may want to start service from doing so?

The first two phases of gate expansion at Phoenix-Mesa Gateway were funded at least in part by Allegiant. It was fairly bare bones. Ground load only, fairly simple construction, nothing fancy. They looked nice and new, but more along the lines of a public school rather than a modern airport terminal. The latter two phases at IWA were funded by the airport authority, and they looked much fancier. I don't recall if Allegiant had exclusivity in the first two phases — technically Vision Airlines operated from IWA for a while, but I'm not sure where they parked or how that worked. Allegiant might have just had first rights then.
 
Jerseyguy
Posts: 2183
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:05 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:25 am

Nice to see another small airport being given a chance.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5089
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:51 am

TYSflyer wrote:
Very interesting! They do operate out of the ground level of the current terminal at VPS, and it seemed like there was plenty of seating. However, I believe there are only 2-3 gates down there. I’m curious to see if it will be completely separate from the current terminal or just a new addition on the current terminal.

the question is? What might VPS want to DO to Expand the footprint should it become Necessary?
 
WeatherPilot
Posts: 557
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:51 am

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:57 am

I wonder if the new ‘terminal’ is the satellite concourse depicted in this updated master plan video by the airport from January.

https://youtu.be/0ukQQAikRG4
 
User avatar
SierraPacific
Posts: 435
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:04 am

VPS has absolutely beautiful beaches about 20 minutes from the field (some of the best in the world). I think that with Allegiant running a sizeable operation out of the airport, Destin will go from a regional tourist hub to a national one.
 
codc10
Posts: 2911
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:12 am

WeatherPilot wrote:
I wonder if the new ‘terminal’ is the satellite concourse depicted in this updated master plan video by the airport from January.

https://youtu.be/0ukQQAikRG4


That's consistent with what I would expect from Allegiant... no frills, ground-level boarding, limited services, low capex.
 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 2241
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:50 am

Wasn’t this the reason they built the new airport outside of Panama City? Replace Panama City’s airport and get ops away from Eglin for the military? Just sayin’
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
mga707
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 am

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:06 am

codc10 wrote:
WeatherPilot wrote:
I wonder if the new ‘terminal’ is the satellite concourse depicted in this updated master plan video by the airport from January.

https://youtu.be/0ukQQAikRG4


That's consistent with what I would expect from Allegiant... no frills, ground-level boarding, limited services, low capex.


Exactly what Allegiant did at TUS. Took over the former International Terminal, vacant since AeroMexico left nearly a decade ago.
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 2547
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:28 am

DL717 wrote:
Wasn’t this the reason they built the new airport outside of Panama City? Replace Panama City’s airport and get ops away from Eglin for the military? Just sayin’

Yea I'm curious why they are at Destin, not Panama City. WN?
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4343
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:11 am

DL717 wrote:
Wasn’t this the reason they built the new airport outside of Panama City? Replace Panama City’s airport and get ops away from Eglin for the military? Just sayin’

No. They built that new airport to increase traffic to Panama City. The old airport couldn't handle anything much larger than an RJ. The location was only because the land was donated, not because the location was ideally suited for any reason. Okaloosa County has only worked to expand VPS to the extent possible, which is why they have the new current terminal plus an expansion, which was built to compete with ECP. There was never any plan to divert traffic away from VPS.

Okaloosa County actually pissed off Panama City when they renamed the airport Northwest Florida Regional Airport, which I believe was the name ECP intended to use, so they were forced to go with Northwest Florida Beaches Regional Airport. VPS has since officially renamed to Destin-Ft. Walton Beach Airport.
 
csweet
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:49 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:22 pm

SierraPacific wrote:
VPS has absolutely beautiful beaches about 20 minutes from the field (some of the best in the world). I think that with Allegiant running a sizeable operation out of the airport, Destin will go from a regional tourist hub to a national one.


Best in the world? Yikes.
 
xjetflyer2001
Posts: 283
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:20 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:38 pm

csweet wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
VPS has absolutely beautiful beaches about 20 minutes from the field (some of the best in the world). I think that with Allegiant running a sizeable operation out of the airport, Destin will go from a regional tourist hub to a national one.


Best in the world? Yikes.


They are some nice beaches, but some of the best in the world might be stretching it just slightly
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 12117
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:40 pm

The biggest problem for VPS has always been Eglin's ownership of the runways.
I am not sure how Allegiant is planning to use VPS, but they are going to find many ops restricted to Air Force timing.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8493
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:37 pm

SierraPacific wrote:
VPS has absolutely beautiful beaches about 20 minutes from the field (some of the best in the world). I think that with Allegiant running a sizeable operation out of the airport, Destin will go from a regional tourist hub to a national one.


There's going to be a ton of seasonality. VPS just isn't reliably warm in the winter. Average high for the day in January, Fort Walton beach, is 59F. Fort Myers is 75F.

http://www.weatherbase.com/weather/weat ... of-America
 
User avatar
SierraPacific
Posts: 435
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:13 pm

xjetflyer2001 wrote:
csweet wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
VPS has absolutely beautiful beaches about 20 minutes from the field (some of the best in the world). I think that with Allegiant running a sizeable operation out of the airport, Destin will go from a regional tourist hub to a national one.


Best in the world? Yikes.


They are some nice beaches, but some of the best in the world might be stretching it just slightly


Okay, I may have been exaggerating just a bit but I haven't found in North America beaches on the same level as Destin. Now if I could just figure out a way to get rid of the people in Destin, it would be a much better experience.
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1507
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:21 pm

Destin is enormously popular with folks that talk with a twang. Allegiant figured out folks rsther not drive it anymore fro aces like Memphis and Fayetteville. They found gold but they may just ruin it as they connect with the midwest more easily.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3988
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:30 pm

SierraPacific wrote:
xjetflyer2001 wrote:
csweet wrote:

Best in the world? Yikes.


They are some nice beaches, but some of the best in the world might be stretching it just slightly


Okay, I may have been exaggerating just a bit but I haven't found in North America beaches on the same level as Destin. Now if I could just figure out a way to get rid of the people in Destin, it would be a much better experience.


You’ve never gone further down the coast to the beaches near Tampa, Naples, and Miami?
 
KCaviator
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:00 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:41 pm

There are some stunning beaches off of 30A (Seaside area) with white sand and crystal clear water. I've been to Seven Mile Beach in the Caymans as well, and the beaches along 30A rival those in the Caymans believe it or not. 30A has seen some major expansion and an increased interest over the last 5 years, which is unfortunate for those that would like to see it remain a somewhat unknown destination.

With all this being said though, I'm almost positive the typical 30A-er is not flying on Allegiant. Allegiant is marketed towards the Midwest middle-class Destin-type vacationers, which makes perfect sense why they're expanding in VPS and not ECP.
 
User avatar
SierraPacific
Posts: 435
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:29 pm

OB1504 wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
xjetflyer2001 wrote:

They are some nice beaches, but some of the best in the world might be stretching it just slightly


Okay, I may have been exaggerating just a bit but I haven't found in North America beaches on the same level as Destin. Now if I could just figure out a way to get rid of the people in Destin, it would be a much better experience.


You’ve never gone further down the coast to the beaches near Tampa, Naples, and Miami?


I've spent quite a bit of time Central and Southern Florida. I personally like the panhandle when it comes to beaches. I think that with development from Allegiant and new hotels going up, Destin could be a tourist hub rather than a sleepy beach town.
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3632
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:18 pm

The real reason for this is that it allows Allegiant to break off from the standard lease rates other airlines will be required to pay. This will allow G4 to have a structural advantage at VPS that others will not be able to match. This is magnified because if you pull G4 enplanents out of the base CPE for the current terminal it's going to dramatically spike the costs for all other carriers. The costs don't just go away after all, they just get divided over fewer passengers.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5507
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:59 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
This is magnified because if you pull G4 enplanents out of the base CPE for the current terminal it's going to dramatically spike the costs for all other carriers. The costs don't just go away after all, they just get divided over fewer passengers.


Not really in this case. Remember, G4 is a relative new comer to VPS and has only served the airport for a few years. G4's arrival didn't cause lease rates to plunge, nor will their shifting to a different terminal cause rates to shoot back up. The existing VPS terminal has relatively low costs as is, though obviously G4 can drive them lower with their own cheaper terminal, though this might be less efficient to make TSA staff two checkpoints for such a small airport.
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3632
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:40 pm

FlyPNS1 wrote:

Not really in this case. Remember, G4 is a relative new comer to VPS and has only served the airport for a few years. G4's arrival didn't cause lease rates to plunge, nor will their shifting to a different terminal cause rates to shoot back up. The existing VPS terminal has relatively low costs as is, though obviously G4 can drive them lower with their own cheaper terminal, though this might be less efficient to make TSA staff two checkpoints for such a small airport.

G4 did 1/4 of the enplanents at VPS last year. Them being out of the rate pool will have a material effect on the other carriers. Rates may not have changed short term because the lease was probably not renegotiated, but with G4 building their own terminal the airport will certainly want to ensure they are still made whole for the old terminal. G4 has been pursing this strategy (as has F9) in a lot of places because of the huge cost advantage it bestows.
 
CIDFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 2158
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:54 pm

stl07 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Wasn’t this the reason they built the new airport outside of Panama City? Replace Panama City’s airport and get ops away from Eglin for the military? Just sayin’

Yea I'm curious why they are at Destin, not Panama City. WN?


My feeling is they like VPS because it’s centrally located in that it can also handle some travelers headed to the Pensacola area as well as PCB
 
CIDFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 2158
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:57 pm

My 2 cents-I think it’s great they have found success with VPS. Yes most routes are seasonal and it’s not as warm in the winter like further south but it is also a huge snowbird area and can drive some traffic for relatives coming to visit family and vice versa, this is why you see a handful of year round routes to places like STL, CVG, OKC etc. I know this area well as my parents have wintered bear Pensacola since 1998 and I’ve witnessed the build up and popularity of the region over the years first hand.
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 308
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:02 am

SierraPacific wrote:
xjetflyer2001 wrote:
csweet wrote:

Best in the world? Yikes.


They are some nice beaches, but some of the best in the world might be stretching it just slightly


Okay, I may have been exaggerating just a bit but I haven't found in North America beaches on the same level as Destin. Now if I could just figure out a way to get rid of the people in Destin, it would be a much better experience.


Not to keep on the beach theme, but you realize the Caribbean is North America. There are some incredible beaches in the Bahamas, Puerto Rico (US), US Virgin Islands, Turks and Caicos (Grace Bay is often in the top 5 worldwide), Jamaica, etc.
https://www.coastalliving.com/tripadvis ... ches-world

I’m not knocking Destin, it’s just not what comes to mind when you think of the worlds best beaches. Allegiant does have a niche with this market, which makes sense for them to expand.
 
User avatar
SierraPacific
Posts: 435
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:03 am

dcaproducer wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
xjetflyer2001 wrote:

They are some nice beaches, but some of the best in the world might be stretching it just slightly


Okay, I may have been exaggerating just a bit but I haven't found in North America beaches on the same level as Destin. Now if I could just figure out a way to get rid of the people in Destin, it would be a much better experience.


Not to keep on the beach theme, but you realize the Caribbean is North America. There are some incredible beaches in the Bahamas, Puerto Rico (US), US Virgin Islands, Turks and Caicos (Grace Bay is often in the top 5 worldwide), Jamaica, etc.
https://www.coastalliving.com/tripadvis ... ches-world

I’m not knocking Destin, it’s just not what comes to mind when you think of the worlds best beaches. Allegiant does have a niche with this market, which makes sense for them to expand.


I do not see very many Allegiant customers going to the Carribean. I enjoy St Maarten's beach but it is cost prohibitive for most people to go there.
 
kbmiflyer
Posts: 295
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:47 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:13 am

You have to look DEEP into the meeting agenda packet, but the proposed expansion is on page 524 of the link

Warning, really big file:

http://okaloosacountyfl.iqm2.com/Citize ... nline=True
 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 2241
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:53 am

atcsundevil wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Wasn’t this the reason they built the new airport outside of Panama City? Replace Panama City’s airport and get ops away from Eglin for the military? Just sayin’

No. They built that new airport to increase traffic to Panama City. The old airport couldn't handle anything much larger than an RJ. The location was only because the land was donated, not because the location was ideally suited for any reason. Okaloosa County has only worked to expand VPS to the extent possible, which is why they have the new current terminal plus an expansion, which was built to compete with ECP. There was never any plan to divert traffic away from VPS.

Okaloosa County actually pissed off Panama City when they renamed the airport Northwest Florida Regional Airport, which I believe was the name ECP intended to use, so they were forced to go with Northwest Florida Beaches Regional Airport. VPS has since officially renamed to Destin-Ft. Walton Beach Airport.


As someone who was based at Eglin in the late 80’s I’m going to have to disagree. While it was before Desert Storm, there were significant concerns about the growth of commercial service interfering with the operations of Eglin. Eglin was beginning to absorb a lot of redundant support functions between Eglin and Tyndall which was designed to save costs. Eglin is the more critical base. There was even concern of Tyndall closing altogether and consolidating at Eglin if a BRAC came about. They shouldn’t count on Eglin giving up another square inch now that Tyndall is basically wiped off the planet.

Also, PFN supported mainline service for many years, I flew out of PFN several times as it was cheaper during the off season to use PFN than PNS. It’s primary runway was no shorter than SNA or MDW. The neighbors probably didn’t like it much though. It seemed to be pretty much in the middle of a residential area.
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 2241
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:54 am

WaywardMemphian wrote:
Destin is enormously popular with folks that talk with a twang. Allegiant figured out folks rsther not drive it anymore fro aces like Memphis and Fayetteville. They found gold but they may just ruin it as they connect with the midwest more easily.


They don’t call it the redneck riviera for nothing. :lol:
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4343
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:06 am

DL717 wrote:
As someone who was based at Eglin in the late 80’s I’m going to have to disagree. While it was before Desert Storm, there were significant concerns about the growth of commercial service interfering with the operations of Eglin. Eglin was beginning to absorb a lot of redundant support functions between Eglin and Tyndall which was designed to save costs. Eglin is the more critical base. There was even concern of Tyndall closing altogether and consolidating at Eglin if a BRAC came about. They shouldn’t count on Eglin giving up another square inch now that Tyndall is basically wiped off the planet.

Also, PFN supported mainline service for many years, I flew out of PFN several times as it was cheaper during the off season to use PFN than PNS. It’s primary runway was no shorter than SNA or MDW. The neighbors probably didn’t like it much though. It seemed to be pretty much in the middle of a residential area.

Quite a lot has changed since then. Hurlburt has at least double the personnel of Eglin these days. The concerns that previously existed have diminished significantly in the past decade or more. Eglin is the more critical base, but these days, Hurlburt has the more critical runway.
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 308
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: Allegiant to build new terminal at VPS

Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:14 pm

SierraPacific wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:

Okay, I may have been exaggerating just a bit but I haven't found in North America beaches on the same level as Destin. Now if I could just figure out a way to get rid of the people in Destin, it would be a much better experience.


Not to keep on the beach theme, but you realize the Caribbean is North America. There are some incredible beaches in the Bahamas, Puerto Rico (US), US Virgin Islands, Turks and Caicos (Grace Bay is often in the top 5 worldwide), Jamaica, etc.
https://www.coastalliving.com/tripadvis ... ches-world

I’m not knocking Destin, it’s just not what comes to mind when you think of the worlds best beaches. Allegiant does have a niche with this market, which makes sense for them to expand.


I do not see very many Allegiant customers going to the Carribean. I enjoy St Maarten's beach but it is cost prohibitive for most people to go there.


I wasn't referring to Allegiant's customers. I was referring specifically to the qualifier best in the world, even in N. America. Allegiant does fly to Puerto Rico, which does have some highly rated beaches.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos