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chunhimlai
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Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:04 am

The ex-ceo Zhong Guosong declared to be ceo again while currently sitting CEO Hou Wei said he is still in the position

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hnag ... RU14R?il=0


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hnag ... SKCN1RT1NL


Ex-ceo’s company claims that HX key financial info were taken from HNA representatives.

https://www2.hkej.com/landing/mobArticle2/id/2114443

Who will win eventually?

And would it affect CX takeover UO?
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:30 am

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1418725

It is kind of being discuss here. But yeah, I was just too lazy to start a new thread.

If “Zhong clique” (as I call it) wins out, it would definitely affect CX acquisition of UO - Zhong is the person not willing to sell right now. The “HNA clique”, on the other hand, is definitely selling as they badly need any cash they can get their hands on.

Oh well...we’ll see how this develop, or whether HX will even stay in business by June.
 
c933103
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:19 am

So... HX('s self-proclaimed representative) hired some securities to safeguard their financial document. But HNA send its own security force in to get rid of those who are at HX protecting those documents in place and forcefully take unidentified number of documents and harddisk away?
This is a placeholder.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:57 pm

c933103 wrote:
So... HX('s self-proclaimed representative) hired some securities to safeguard their financial document. But HNA send its own security force in to get rid of those who are at HX protecting those documents in place and forcefully take unidentified number of documents and harddisk away?


To make the drama crazier - there's the part from HX corporate communication department claiming that nobody took any financial documents away or destroy things like HDD. HKA Holdings (The group control by Zhong Guosong/Frontier Investment Partner) follow that up by claiming HNA Group representative "control" the corporate communication department, and thus, claim nothing happen.

(Chinese only)
https://www.hk01.com/%E8%B2%A1%E7%B6%93 ... 7%E6%96%99

Of course, nothing changes the fact that HX themselves need cash to cover payments, no matter where it come from.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:08 pm

Just saw this on SCMP:
https://amp.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... an-obtains

Three things I got out:
1. Zhong has filed an injunction, presumably to stop HNA executives from doing more “damage”.
2. Talks of some settlement between the two “cliques”. Although no details yet.
3. Deadline from HK regulatory authority on Wednesday on who’s really in control. Perhaps shedding light on some of the financials also?
 
winginit
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:10 pm

This is fascinating. Is it too late for CX to take a step back, watch this dumpster fire burn itself out, and then come in to pick up the pieces at a discount?
 
c933103
Posts: 3688
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:14 pm

https://inews.hket.com/article/2332204/ ... ?mtc=20023

Meanwhile the HNA group defaulted on certain debt last week, and as a result their subsidiary CWT International (a company listed on Hong Kong stock Exchange) have already been repossessed by creditors.
This is a placeholder.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:22 am

c933103 wrote:
https://inews.hket.com/article/2332204/%E6%B5%B7%E8%88%AACWT%E8%A2%AB%E8%B2%B8%E6%AC%BE%E4%BA%BA%E6%8E%A5%E7%AE%A1%E6%8A%B5%E6%8A%BC%E8%B3%87%E7%94%A2%20%E7%B9%BC%E7%BA%8C%E5%81%9C%E7%89%8C?mtc=20023

Meanwhile the HNA group defaulted on certain debt last week, and as a result their subsidiary CWT International (a company listed on Hong Kong stock Exchange) have already been repossessed by creditors.


To add on, CWT International is control by Mung Kin-Keung, who was the former chairman of Hong Kong Airlines International Holdings (although he jumped ship last year), and had long play a core role in HX's business dealings.

winginit wrote:
This is fascinating. Is it too late for CX to take a step back, watch this dumpster fire burn itself out, and then come in to pick up the pieces at a discount?


Personally, I think CX probably saw some of HX's finance, and ran away from it as quickly as possible, and instead, only grab UO which has a much higher potential (although UO themselves is also losing money).

If (a big if, but certainly possible) HX goes out of business, you can bet that CX is going to come in and snap up some of the assets.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:23 pm

Just more mess...

(Chinese only)
https://www.hk01.com/%E8%B2%A1%E7%B6%93 ... WqDScNIgV8

As if things are not messy enough, there are sources (not necessarily 100% verified) that said that Frontier Investment Group's holding (34.16%) in Hong Kong Airlines Stock Holding Company (Which in turn holds 31.14% of HKA Group Company Limited, the holding company that 100% own HX) was sold to a company call "Grand City".

That would means Frontier Investment Group (Which separately have a 23.75% direct stakes in HKA Group Company Limited) now only own 23.75%, instead of 23.75%+(34.16%*31.14%) = 23.75%+10.64% = 34.39% of HX. To makes things weirder, Frontier Investment Partners claimed that the stock holding changes were made by an unauthorized personnel. Nobody knows whether "Grand City" is in Zhong clique or HNA clique, either.
 
zakuivcustom
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Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:00 pm

Well...just more updates.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... ttle-slams

Basically, "Grand City Investment Capital" (GCIC), the "new player" that emerged yesterday, supposedly took the entire Frontier Investment Partners (FIP)'s stakes in HKA. FIP is how Zhong Guosong himself got into power (in a "coup" as GCIC/HNA described it) as FIP (used to?) own ~34% of HX, and combined with Zhong's personal ~27%, form the 61% majority stakes.

Also, since GCIC claimed that they got the 34% control, that would make them (not Zhong) the majority owner (HNA Group holds ~29%; the rest 10% or so is hold by some individual investors). GCIC is also certainly not in "Zhong clique" (Although it's not known whether they're in "HNA clique", either).

Zhong is basically saying that the whole FIP transaction is not authorized (by the whole FIP board) and is filing an injunctions against a FIP executive, Zhang Ziyan, stopping him from making any further transaction.

(Chinese only)
https://www.hk01.com/%E8%B2%A1%E7%B6%93 ... 9%E8%AC%97

At the end of the day, as SCMP puts it:
"Sources said the true owners had to prove they had the money to invest in the airline to ensure the airline’s permit would not be lost."

And so far, it seems like everyone is fighting for control, but do anyone have the money to fill the hole that HX is in?

What...a...mess, is all I'll say.
 
c933103
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:14 pm

At this point does the airlines still fulfill the majority local control rule?
This is a placeholder.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:37 pm

c933103 wrote:
At this point does the airlines still fulfill the majority local control rule?


For now, I believe so (Since Grand City Capital Investment is some HK company). Realistically, god knows b/c nobody (including the aviation authority, who is requesting an answer) knows who controls what, who's in charge, and whether there are any money left from anybody.
 
juliuswong
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:26 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
Well...just more updates.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... ttle-slams

Basically, "Grand City Investment Capital" (GCIC), the "new player" that emerged yesterday, supposedly took the entire Frontier Investment Partners (FIP)'s stakes in HKA. FIP is how Zhong Guosong himself got into power (in a "coup" as GCIC/HNA described it) as FIP (used to?) own ~34% of HX, and combined with Zhong's personal ~27%, form the 61% majority stakes.

Also, since GCIC claimed that they got the 34% control, that would make them (not Zhong) the majority owner (HNA Group holds ~29%; the rest 10% or so is hold by some individual investors). GCIC is also certainly not in "Zhong clique" (Although it's not known whether they're in "HNA clique", either).

Zhong is basically saying that the whole FIP transaction is not authorized (by the whole FIP board) and is filing an injunctions against a FIP executive, Zhang Ziyan, stopping him from making any further transaction.

(Chinese only)
https://www.hk01.com/%E8%B2%A1%E7%B6%93 ... 9%E8%AC%97

At the end of the day, as SCMP puts it:
"Sources said the true owners had to prove they had the money to invest in the airline to ensure the airline’s permit would not be lost."

And so far, it seems like everyone is fighting for control, but do anyone have the money to fill the hole that HX is in?

What...a...mess, is all I'll say.

This drama proves to be better than any TVB drama series plot... Or even Andy Hui's infidelity news....paint me stupid..lol
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:37 pm

juliuswong wrote:
This drama proves to be better than any TVB drama series plot... Or even Andy Hui's infidelity news....paint me stupid..lol


Come on...you can't beat this real-life version of "Heart of Greed" (I have to look up the English name for the series... :white: ).

I mean, two side fighting for power and out of nowhere, a third group appears? As TVB drama as this can get :banghead:
 
juliuswong
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:55 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
This drama proves to be better than any TVB drama series plot... Or even Andy Hui's infidelity news....paint me stupid..lol


Come on...you can't beat this real-life version of "Heart of Greed" (I have to look up the English name for the series... :white: ).

I mean, two side fighting for power and out of nowhere, a third group appears? As TVB drama as this can get :banghead:

Hahahaha.. Laughing so hard now. You earn a follower/admirer today. So someone needs to push either one leader down the staircase thrb we will have an ending? Lol...

Serious though, hope they can sort out the mess. Hong Kong needs a second premium carrier to keep CX/KA honest, although I know they have hundreds of airlines flying in and out of HKG. Being their employees ain't fun now tbh. Job security and livelihood at stake.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:18 pm

juliuswong wrote:
Serious though, hope they can sort out the mess. Hong Kong needs a second premium carrier to keep CX/KA honest, although I know they have hundreds of airlines flying in and out of HKG. Being their employees ain't fun now tbh. Job security and livelihood at stake.


They did lost >100 employees just from beginning of this year:
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... g-airlines

But yes, with all the conflicts up top, the fear is that it'll eventually affect everyday operations. And even after they determined who controls what, HX still need to find a way to dig themselves out of the hole they're in.

Otherwise - I do agree that Hong Kong needs a local competitor to CX/KA/(UO). I've flown on HX a few times myself, and while I can tell that their cabin crew is inexperience, they also have that youth energy that you simply can't find in those "don't care" old-timers of CX.

juliuswong wrote:
Hahahaha.. Laughing so hard now. You earn a follower/admirer today. So someone needs to push either one leader down the staircase thrb we will have an ending? Lol...


Come on, we all know Zhong Guosong, Hou Wei, Zhang Ziyan, and whoever control Grand City will just throw a BBQ party at the rooftop of HX's headquarter building after everything is done. :duck: :duck: (For those not familiar with Hong Kong TVB drama, just google "TVB BBQ Ending")
Last edited by zakuivcustom on Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
c933103
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Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:19 pm

https://inews.hket.com/article/2334474/ ... ?mtc=20038

How come even statement made by involved companies have to circulate as if they are some sort of rumors instead of being posted officially?
This is a placeholder.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2503
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:12 pm

Just a little bit more...

(Again, Chinese only for now)
https://www.hk01.com/%E8%B2%A1%E7%B6%93 ... 2%E8%AC%80

Basically...
1. FIP claimed Zhang Ziyan, who's a former executive and left FIP since July, used FIP's name to transfer its stakes to GCCI without FIP's authorization. FIP is arguing that since Zhang is no longer an executive (The agreement was signed on April 11th, the day before Zhong Guosong took over HX's board), the agreement has no legal standing.
2. FIP also claimed that Zhang is working with some third party, most likely associated with "HNA Clique".
3. HNA (Who's the one that spread the news about how FIP's stake was "transferred"), of course, claim that the agreement is legal, and since FIP holds zero stakes in HX now, Zhong would not have the majority stakes that he claims he holds, and thus, there's no legal standing of Zhong taking over the board as the chairman.

I believe the deadline to clarify the ownership from the authority (IIRC the aviation authority) was Wednesday Hong Kong Time, so we're past that already. Maybe more cliffhangers coming out of this TVB-esque drama in the next 12 hours?

On a side note - the mess that's call HX ownership is maybe why no other large investor even bother investing in it? Temasek Holdings was rumored to take a stake (this was awhile back...circa 2017 IIRC), but nothing came of that. CX bought only UO but not HX.
 
c933103
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:47 am

https://www.bastillepost.com/macau/arti ... ent_cat=16
Report claim HX was not able to take delivery of at least 4 new aircrafts (including A330 and A350 per HX), and HNA asked pilots to work for other airlines in the HNA group instead, including Hainan Airlines, HK Express, Tianjin Airlines, Hong Kong Air Cargo, and also Etihad Airlines. Report said there are already 57 HX pilots accepted this arrangement. HX claim the arrangement will last for a year.
This is a placeholder.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:42 am

c933103 wrote:
https://www.bastillepost.com/macau/article/1732338-%E5%82%B3%E8%B3%87%E9%87%91%E7%9F%AD%E7%BC%BA%E6%9C%AA%E8%83%BD%E8%B2%B7%E6%96%B0%E9%A3%9B%E6%A9%9F-%E6%B8%AF%E8%88%AA57%E5%90%8D%E6%A9%9F%E5%B8%AB%E9%9C%80%E5%80%9F%E8%AA%BF%E6%88%96%E8%BD%89?current_cat=16
Report claim HX was not able to take delivery of at least 4 new aircrafts (including A330 and A350 per HX), and HNA asked pilots to work for other airlines in the HNA group instead, including Hainan Airlines, HK Express, Tianjin Airlines, Hong Kong Air Cargo, and also Etihad Airlines. Report said there are already 57 HX pilots accepted this arrangement. HX claim the arrangement will last for a year.


Not surprise by this at all. HX has no money anyway.

On the other hand, wasn’t it rumored that HX will eventually return all their A332 to lessor? HX had been cutting back on their long-haul operations quite a bit anyway (i.e. ending AKL and changing both LAX and YVR to 4-5/week instead of daily).
 
zakuivcustom
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Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed May 08, 2019 11:00 am

https://amp.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... adache-its

Not as major, but the auditor just resigned.

As the article said, it can be “normal” (i.e. HX changing auditor, rotation), or it can be the fact that the auditor saw something that he/she doesn’t want to sign off on.

Meanwhile, the two (or more) sides are heading to court later this month, and thus, there should be more drama then.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed May 15, 2019 11:21 am

Umm...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... chase/amp/

Just goes to tell you how complicated (and shady) HNA dealings are.
 
juliuswong
Moderator
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed May 15, 2019 12:34 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
Umm...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... chase/amp/

Just goes to tell you how complicated (and shady) HNA dealings are.

The mind twisting business transaction.....i need to read twice to understand what actually happened.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
zakuivcustom
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Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Wed May 15, 2019 1:35 pm

juliuswong wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
Umm...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... chase/amp/

Just goes to tell you how complicated (and shady) HNA dealings are.

The mind twisting business transaction.....i need to read twice to understand what actually happened.


Yep...a "bribe" (that may have been paid...or maybe not), offshore dealings with some Turkish businessman, then just randomly put those planes to one of the HK-based airlines b/c of possible Chinese regulatory issues just to lease those planes out. Oh, and HNA somehow has holdings in those companies.

Ultimately, all these things would not be known had HNA not borrow more than they can paid back and lose money left and right on stupid investments that are vanity "buy b/c they can buy something just to show off their (and Chinese companies) might" instead of doing homeworks. All in the meanwhile, with nobody knowing where those money came from, or how HNA is able to borrow some of the money to begin with.
 
zakuivcustom
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Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:01 pm

https://www.hk01.com/%E8%B2%A1%E7%B6%93 ... 1%E6%9D%B1
(Sorry, Chinese only for now)

After all the "storm", everything seems to be resolved, with HNA staying in control.

They do mention about finding a new strategic investor, which they'll need anyway to cover the debt they're in.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:51 pm

Does it mean that CX's acquisition of UO is a done deal?
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:10 pm

Francoflier wrote:
Does it mean that CX's acquisition of UO is a done deal?


Yes, CX announced the deal is finalized and waiting to complete the trade,
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:12 pm

HK Airlines is a good airline and HK market can be benefited from having a major HK based airline to compete with CX Group. Hope they will be great again after the mess they suffered due to HU's financial difficulties.
 
itisi
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:59 pm

hongkongflyer wrote:
HK Airlines is a good airline and HK market can be benefited from having a major HK based airline to compete with CX Group. Hope they will be great again after the mess they suffered due to HU's financial difficulties.


I don't think all the mess is due to HU. Everything I hear about HX is a total mess.
737-300/400/500 ... are NOT classics :)
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:44 am

itisi wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
HK Airlines is a good airline and HK market can be benefited from having a major HK based airline to compete with CX Group. Hope they will be great again after the mess they suffered due to HU's financial difficulties.


I don't think all the mess is due to HU. Everything I hear about HX is a total mess.


HX has financial problems mainly bc the floodgate known as HNA Group and their “infinite” (all borrowed) money dried up literally overnight. Gone is the day when HX can literally expand and buy everything they want and now, they actually has to run an airline within their means.

hongkongflyer wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
Does it mean that CX's acquisition of UO is a done deal?


Yes, CX announced the deal is finalized and waiting to complete the trade,


Last I check there are still hold ups, i.e. Zhong Guosong afaik is still not willing to sell his stakes in UO. HX being “back to normal” under HNA Control definitely helps, though, as HNA is willing to sell UO.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:27 am

itisi wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
HK Airlines is a good airline and HK market can be benefited from having a major HK based airline to compete with CX Group. Hope they will be great again after the mess they suffered due to HU's financial difficulties.


I don't think all the mess is due to HU. Everything I hear about HX is a total mess.


Yes the back office operations have some issues, which is common in Asia,
However, the major financial shortfall is mainly due to the bonds they issued, of which majority of the fund raised were send to HU Group.
HX it self had a good operating performance (they even planned for IPO few years ago).
 
zakuivcustom
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Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Hong Kong airline leadership storm

Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:47 pm

hongkongflyer wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
Does it mean that CX's acquisition of UO is a done deal?


Yes, CX announced the deal is finalized and waiting to complete the trade,


https://hk.finance.appledaily.com/finan ... 2/59815970 (Chinese only...Subscription required also)

Essentially what hongkongflyer is mentioning - the deal is being finalized and we should see full details sometimes next week.

For now, HKExpress name will not change, so no "Cathay Express" with the Purple "Shark Fin" on the tail for now :cry2:

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