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leghorn
Posts: 1297
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:53 pm

Taken from Times newspaper:
Not everyone understands how commercial loans work. So how lucky Mark Anderson can explain. The Flybe boss is trying to prise £100 million out of the government. And all via Boris Johnson’s new “levelling up” policy: one aimed, apparently, at keeping the bank accounts of the airline’s owners up to the levels they like.

Still, don’t accuse Mr Anderson of demanding any sweetheart terms for a business owned by the billionaires behind Virgin Atlantic — Sir Richard Branson and Delta Air Lines — plus New York hedge fund Cyrus Capital and Stobart. As he told Flybe staff: “We are in conversation with the government around a financial loan — a loan, not a bailout — a commercial loan, but that is the same as any loan we’d take from any bank.”

Really? So why not talk to a bank, then? Short answer: because after the stunts that Flybe’s owners have pulled with its assets, they’d struggle to get a commercial loan. As Companies House filings show, there’s almost zero security left.

Having bought the assets for just £2.8 million last February, one of the owners’ first moves was to strike a deal with Global Loans Agency Services: a trustee for their stakes that takes security over certain assets. So it’s a sort of middleman between Flybe’s owners and its assets. Or at least those that can’t fly off: lessors already had security over most of the 67 turboprop planes.

The rest of the assets, including buildings, aircraft engines and receivables, then look to have been divvied up between the owners. Filings show that Flybe’s holding company — Connect Airways — is both “chargors” and “guarantors” for asset deals. Indeed, the document says: “Each chargor shall attach to a visible part of each item of specified equipment owned by it and with a value in excess of £10,000 . . . a clear and distinctive label.”

The upshot? Well, should Flybe go bust, the owners have a charge over specific assets: enough, maybe, to eliminate any losses. True, they claim to have injected £110 million. But it’s questionable how much of that was cash. Stobart’s £45 million, say, was mainly its regional airline and aircraft-leasing wing, which experts reckon were worth nothing like that. To boot, by using Global Loans, the owners avoid a bunfight over any future carve-up.

On top came the owners’ wheeze with Flybe’s Heathrow slots. They switched Newquay flights under the taxpayer-funded “public service obligation” regime to Gatwick: a dodge, potentially to the benefit of Virgin Atlantic, that unlocked an estimated £60 million of value.

And now, on top of a £10 million holiday on air passenger duty, they want a £100 million taxpayer loan. They can afford to inject fresh equity. Without that, no bank would lend to a loss-making airline whose wealthy owners were up to these sorts of capers. And neither should the government. Indeed, the money would be far better spent subsidising essential routes. Not minted owners intent on looking after themselves.
 
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:43 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
gunnerman wrote:
BA franchisees operate routes required by BA, that's that's whole point of having a franchisee that can operate routes better and/or cheaper than the franchisor. Interestingly BA CityFlyer, BA's wholly owned subsidiary at LCY, operates very much like a franchisee as all marketing is done by BA.

That's not true for Sunair and Comair. As said, they are effectively independent airlines that simply use the BA brand for marketing and handling the reservations etc.

So was it "simply" a matter of painting their aircraft in BA livery, outfitting their crew in BA uniform, having BA as the sole marketing carrier on several routes.
 
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readytotaxi
Posts: 7406
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:28 am

Update.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51453196

The government is in talks with the firm and the European Commission to ensure any rescue deal does not break state aid rules.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
BDKLEZ
Posts: 1767
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:57 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:35 am

Not very dramatic I'm afraid, but I've noticed that the provisional website for Connect Airways is no longer available, but instead we have this....

https://www.virginconnect.co.uk/index.html

Seems to me to be the first direct publicly endorsed correlation between BE and the Virgin branding team. There have been questions regarding how the airline would be rebranded, but this seems to show a clear direction.
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
seansasLCY
Posts: 1097
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:25 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:29 am

More competition for Flybe. BA will launch a seasonal LHR-NQY route (5x weekly) this summer.
 
Scottiedog
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:11 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:51 am

BDKLEZ wrote:
Not very dramatic I'm afraid, but I've noticed that the provisional website for Connect Airways is no longer available, but instead we have this....

https://www.virginconnect.co.uk/index.html

Seems to me to be the first direct publicly endorsed correlation between BE and the Virgin branding team. There have been questions regarding how the airline would be rebranded, but this seems to show a clear direction.


That link has been around for months.
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 2709
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:54 am

seansasLCY wrote:
More competition for Flybe. BA will launch a seasonal LHR-NQY route (5x weekly) this summer.

I wonder where the slots have come from and how this will effect flyBe’s PSO route to Gatwick. If IAG can launch this on a commercial basis, it does beg the question why a PSO is needed. I understand that 5x week doesn’t compare well to 3 daily. Fares will be interesting to watch.
 
CrawleyBen
Posts: 181
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:26 am

Return fare from £90, rising to £250 in Club Europe as per the article I've linked below.

http://travelweekly.co.uk/articles/3579 ... throw-link

Cheers

Ben
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1398
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:42 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
seansasLCY wrote:
More competition for Flybe. BA will launch a seasonal LHR-NQY route (5x weekly) this summer.

I wonder where the slots have come from and how this will effect flyBe’s PSO route to Gatwick. If IAG can launch this on a commercial basis, it does beg the question why a PSO is needed.


Probably because nobody would operate it without it. There's also no guarantee BA sticks around on the route if the PSO is withdrawn and Flybe end the route as a result. Seasonal is also good from a revenue perspective as Newquay/Cornwall is popular with tourists at that time of year, though not sure if it's possible to check in a surfboard!
 
TC957
Posts: 3807
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:20 pm

The new UK Chancellor is rumoured to be against an APD cut, on which Flybe's survival plans hinged going forward.
Another blow for them if true.
 
Bhoy
Posts: 548
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:50 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:23 pm

TC957 wrote:
The new UK Chancellor is rumoured to be against an APD cut, on which Flybe's survival plans hinged going forward.
Another blow for them if true.

He’ll do whatever Cummings tells him to do.
 
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JannEejit
Posts: 1641
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:32 pm

TC957 wrote:
The new UK Chancellor is rumoured to be against an APD cut, on which Flybe's survival plans hinged going forward.
Another blow for them if true.


Yes he's needing all the cash he can round up for HS2, no doubt smarting at the audacity of Flybe's "Faster than rail" slogan and has decided to 'show 'em who's boss' ... :?
 
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CarbonFibre
Posts: 717
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:02 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:43 pm

Bhoy wrote:
He’ll do whatever Cummings tells him to do.


Just as well as he looks as if he's just left school.
 
seansasLCY
Posts: 1097
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:25 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:42 pm

Update on Flybe. ITV is reporting this: "Breaking: Flybe has told the government that it is running out of cash and will not survive until the end of the month. Airline has been hit by slump in bookings since COVID-19 outbreak. FlyBe says it needs a decision on its request for taxpayer loan of £100m “in the coming days" https://twitter.com/ITVJoel/status/1235 ... 87394?s=20
 
seansasLCY
Posts: 1097
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:25 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:48 pm

Further from the FT. Apparently the Government is unlikely to approve the loan partly because Flybe has already taken out loans against all of its assets.
"The situation was complicated after Flybe mortgaged the majority of its remaining assets — including buildings, equipment and intellectual property — to its owners last year. This made it more difficult for the UK government to provide a loan on commercial terms."
https://www.ft.com/content/6c37bb36-5df ... 9c2307bcd4
 
KingB123
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:30 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:24 pm

This airline needs a miracle to survive
King B
 
uta999
Posts: 917
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:10 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:25 pm

Your computer just got better
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 851
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:04 pm

Company law in England doesn't have the concept of Chapter 11. It does however state that company directors must not trade recklessly (ie carry on running the business as normal when they know a company has no hope of paying its debts, instead of calling in administrators) and they get into a lot of trouble if they do.

The UK Budget will be announced on Wed 11 March - unlike the USA, the Govt decides what's going to happen and that is pretty much it. If there is to be a change APD, it'll be announced on that day. If there is no major help for Flybe around a loan or APD reductions, then the evening of 11 March or sometime on 12 March might see a special meeting of the company directors
 
jomur
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:26 pm

So has the grandfathering rights kicked in yet? Wonder if Flybe have transfered/sold them if they have got them and then Virgin consortium will let Flybe die..
 
Fitlikemin
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:20 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:59 pm

One report suggested Flybe could collapse from 9pm TONIGHT. I hope that is incorrect.
 
Bongodog49
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:35 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:44 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Company law in England doesn't have the concept of Chapter 11. It does however state that company directors must not trade recklessly (ie carry on running the business as normal when they know a company has no hope of paying its debts, instead of calling in administrators) and they get into a lot of trouble if they do.

The UK Budget will be announced on Wed 11 March - unlike the USA, the Govt decides what's going to happen and that is pretty much it. If there is to be a change APD, it'll be announced on that day. If there is no major help for Flybe around a loan or APD reductions, then the evening of 11 March or sometime on 12 March might see a special meeting of the company directors


The UK does have something similar to chapter 11 a system called a company voluntary arrangement where the creditors are asked to accept either deferred payment or a % of the sum owed, we also have a "pre pack" procedure where the administrators agree a deal to sell the company on free of debt before it has even gone into administration.
 
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readytotaxi
Posts: 7406
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:32 pm

Fitlikemin wrote:
One report suggested Flybe could collapse from 9pm TONIGHT. I hope that is incorrect.


From the original FT report which first reported the news, the airline believes it has enough financial resources to survive "until the end of this month".
I would imagine they did their homework. Hope they do continue to fly.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
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CarbonFibre
Posts: 717
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:35 pm

Accountancy staff traveling to regional airports ahead of possible collapse tonight.

https://twitter.com/MarkKleinmanSky/sta ... 8804773889
 
opticalilyushin
Posts: 786
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:47 pm

Fuelling companies at some airports have stopped servicing Flybe flights.
 
vfw614
Posts: 3846
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:22 pm

Apparently that's a GLA issue where two departing flights have been cancelled, allegedly for a lack of fuel, and an inbound flight has diverted to MAN, probably to avoid getting stranded there.
 
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Alsatian
Posts: 642
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 10:19 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:28 pm

BE 7213 and 7215 MAN - DUS are cancelled tomorrow. Hopefully this is not related to these rumours above.
 
Gingersnap
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:09 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:30 pm

Seeing that they have been rejected for their £100 million loan.
Flown on: A306 A319/20/21 A332 B732/3/4/5/7/8 B742/4 B752 B762/3 B772/W B788 C152 E195 F70/100 MD-82 Q400
 
opticalilyushin
Posts: 786
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:32 pm

vfw614 wrote:
Apparently that's a GLA issue where two departing flights have been cancelled, allegedly for a lack of fuel, and an inbound flight has diverted to MAN, probably to avoid getting stranded there.


Flybe phoned all the airports to see what is happening, some are still refuelling, some aren't.
 
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readytotaxi
Posts: 7406
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:36 pm

Seems that some airports are being carefull about fuel and payment, that will not help ops.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
Gingersnap
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:09 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:36 pm

Hearing all BE flights at BHX have been cancelled.
Flown on: A306 A319/20/21 A332 B732/3/4/5/7/8 B742/4 B752 B762/3 B772/W B788 C152 E195 F70/100 MD-82 Q400
 
mattyfitzg
Posts: 261
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:39 pm

Gingersnap wrote:
Hearing all BE flights at BHX have been cancelled.



They have indeed.
 
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nighthawk
Posts: 4889
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:41 pm

"I have it on exceptionally good authority that Flybe will cease flying in a few hours time once Recievers staff arrive at all hub locations. Sad day but hardly surprising." - from twitter.

Reports that an aircraft has been impounded at GLA
 
mattyfitzg
Posts: 261
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:43 pm

Aircraft impounded in GLA.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:43 pm

Gingersnap wrote:
Hearing all BE flights at BHX have been cancelled.


Here's the latest Per their departures board:

BE416 20:00 is delayed an hour to 21:00 - to Belfast City
BE854 20:45 is delayed 15 minutes to 21:00- Edinburgh
BE794 21:00 is Cancelled - Glasgow

all others are tagged as departed with the exception of BE326 to Aberdeen - which should have left 15:35 and is still saying Gate Closed. But I think that's a system glitch as flightaware says it's already in Aberdeen.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
azz767
Posts: 150
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:45 pm

Impounded a/c at GLA. Not looking good at all
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2567
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:53 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Gingersnap wrote:
Hearing all BE flights at BHX have been cancelled.


Here's the latest Per their departures board:

BE416 20:00 is delayed an hour to 21:00 - to Belfast City
BE854 20:45 is delayed 15 minutes to 21:00- Edinburgh
BE794 21:00 is Cancelled - Glasgow

all others are tagged as departed with the exception of BE326 to Aberdeen - which should have left 15:35 and is still saying Gate Closed. But I think that's a system glitch as flightaware says it's already in Aberdeen.


BE416 is Gate Closed now
BE854 is boarding.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
mattyfitzg
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:50 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:55 pm

Image


G-JECP impounded at GLA
Last edited by mattyfitzg on Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
kaitak
Posts: 9904
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:59 pm

The DUB to SOU flight has departed this evening (BE 388), as has the BE 4528 (to CWL).
 
Fitlikemin
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:20 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:07 pm

ABZ-BHX (BE329) in the air; ditto LHR-ABZ (BE2128).
 
B717fan
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:32 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:08 pm

BE416 from BHX to BHD is departing.
 
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nighthawk
Posts: 4889
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:10 pm

the captain of the GLA-BHX flight that diverted to MAN has apparently told the passengers flybe has gone in to administration.
 
B717fan
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:32 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:10 pm

Airlive posted saying Flybe put out a statement that there was a miscommunication regarding refueling at Glasgow, but I have yet to see it.
 
Fitlikemin
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:20 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:14 pm

One helluva miscommunication that results in the airport having to go to the trouble of sticking an impound notice of the door of the aircraft!
 
LHRFlyer
Posts: 1040
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:50 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:20 pm

The BBC's business editor Simon Jack has tweeted that an announcement is expected at around 11pm after the last flight has landed.
 
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FabDiva
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:42 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:22 pm

At least two - This tweet shows G-??OB (maybe ECOB?) with impounding notice on the door, but the notice posted above is for G-JECP

https://twitter.com/PeterAdamSmith/stat ... 52353?s=20

Edit forgot the link!
Last edited by FabDiva on Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
SEU
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:21 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:22 pm

The problem with the world is greed, and the economic model the world runs off doesnt work. Flybe has rich owners. We all know this. They dont care because they can pick up the pieces cheaper.
 
SEU
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:21 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:24 pm

BEE9DV looks to be the last one if reports are true. Hanover to MAN. I live near man, might nick out to see it.
 
KingB123
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:30 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:24 pm

Such a sad state of affairs
King B
 
icelander
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:34 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:25 pm

BBC News are saying “Flybe set to collapse in the coming hours putting 2000 jobs at risk”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51746564

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