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leghorn
Posts: 1062
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:48 am

Regardless of what they claimed they were going to do have the Investors put any meaningful money in?
As far as I can see they just made claims that they would and that was enough to release the hold on credit card money which gave FlyBE back its working capital for a while.
In the meantime the fleet and network has shrunk and routes been transferred over in to the operation of companies aligned with the Operator but still flying under the FlyBE brand.
Is this a fair view of what happened in the last 11 months?

FlyBE pilots would probably have been better off being let go last year as the job market was more buoyant then than now.
 
thegrew
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:45 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:05 am

It would be interesting what would happen at Belfast City and Southampton especially with their comparatively short runways limiting what types can fly in with reasonable payloads.

Sent from my moto g(7) plus using Tapatalk
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 2537
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

Re: Flybe update

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:09 am

EIEIDW wrote:
Would there be any chance of Aer Lingus Regional stepping in and operating some of the lost BHD routes?


If Stobart continues to operate, I think there is a good chance that routes could be operated as Aer Lingus Regional. I would think there is a chance that what remains of flyBe will be rebranded as "Connect Airways". All of the press speculation centers around "flyBe", rather than Connect Airways, which I think tells its own story.
 
seansasLCY
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Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:25 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:10 am

leghorn wrote:
Regardless of what they claimed they were going to do have the Investors put any meaningful money in?
As far as I can see they just made claims that they would and that was enough to release the hold on credit card money which gave FlyBE back its working capital for a while.
In the meantime the fleet and network has shrunk and routes been transferred over in to the operation of companies aligned with the Operator but still flying under the FlyBE brand.
Is this a fair view of what happened in the last 11 months?

FlyBE pilots would probably have been better off being let go last year as the job market was more buoyant then than now.


The consortium couldn’t take control until the EU approved the deal so that took several months. They then reduced some routes and cut others. I presume the consortium have to then make sure that the cash injection would be worthwhile. If Flybe is such bad shape that it would burn through the money instantly then it wouldn’t be wise to give them the money.

I wouldn’t say the market was more buoyant last year than this. Other than Thomas Cook, pretty much every other Uk airline is expanding - so there will be plenty of opportunities for crew should the worst happen.
 
skipness1E
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Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: Flybe update

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:19 am

pdp wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Indeed BHD would be decimated as well as many jobs on the ground.

FlyBE has a good business model, it's just been poorly managed over the last few years.


Their business model is dead and buried, has been for years. There's too many frequent trains now, the airport experience is no longer fast and seamless for business travel and APD has killed leisure travellers as well as the religious judgement of our fellow citizens. I was witness to the outrage of "You FLEW to Newquay?" outrage last week against a work colleague.

Loganair survives on high cost low volume supported by some (often indirect) state subsidy.
BA feeds LHR and offers a niche LGW-EDI/GLA.
easyJet does core London and Northern Ireland from the regions
Ryanair have opted out for a second time.
Flybe's spoke to spoke niche offering can no longer prosper on purely commercial terms, the UK market isn't profitable enough anymore. Indeed Eastern are in the same boat, downsizing into a flybe franchise where they painted one single aircraft they've already retired, it feels like they're going to wind up the whole airline or at least get out of scheduled flying. The only place left for flybe was getting into bed big time with a major player, except none of us on here could see how this drove volume and profits even in the medium term. Feeding Virgin at MAN would end in the morning leaving the rest of the day on point to point which as already stated, was a money loser. There's no scope to feed VS at LGW, and well LHR requires a massive step in the size of the operation to be effective.

Seems the money has been pulled once someone delved into the detail. I never thought Thomas Cook would go bust, but flybe? It's been on the cards since they signed the ball bustingly costly leases on those vanity ERJ-175s and they were stored for days as they struggled to finance them.
 
TC957
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:36 am

Anyone recall when Flybe signed for the E175's that they ordered 35, optioned another 35 and had LoI for another 70 with a view of operating a pan-European lo-cost network linking dozens of unconnected city pairs ? That idea went well then !!
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:50 am

TC957 wrote:
Anyone recall when Flybe signed for the E175's that they ordered 35, optioned another 35 and had LoI for another 70 with a view of operating a pan-European lo-cost network linking dozens of unconnected city pairs ? That idea went well then !!

I still think that idea is sound, what doesn't work is trying to do that with costly leases on aircraft with uncompetitive operating costs. With older 717s, A319s or even brand new C-Series/A220 it can work, but its no license to print money.
 
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nighthawk
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Re: Flybe update

Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:00 am

skipness1E wrote:
pdp wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
FlyBE has a good business model, it's just been poorly managed over the last few years.


Their business model is dead and buried, has been for years. There's too many frequent trains now, the airport experience is no longer fast and seamless for business travel and APD has killed leisure travellers as well as the religious judgement of our fellow citizens. I was witness to the outrage of "You FLEW to Newquay?" outrage last week against a work colleague.



I dont think the business model is entirely dead and buried, but certainly a lot of fat needs to be trimmed. There will always be demand from Isle of Man and Belfast to mainland UK. Likewise the channel islands. There are then numerous other routes that are time consuming to get to by train - Scotland to Norfolk / Cornwall / Wales etc.

There's also an opportunity to connect smaller mainland European cities to the regions.

There are opportunities out there. Sadly due to flybe's poor reputation, they've lost a few of these markets to an ever expanding Loganair and Stobart Air.
 
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SQ789
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:07 am

opticalilyushin wrote:
SQ789 wrote:
If it collapse, will this be the first airline to collapse in 2020?


Did Fly Ernest not go under a day or so ago?

Oh. I Forget about Ernest. Yet I realize they went out of the sky after the government forced the airline to do so.
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
skipness1E
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:21 am

TC957 wrote:
Anyone recall when Flybe signed for the E175's that they ordered 35, optioned another 35 and had LoI for another 70 with a view of operating a pan-European lo-cost network linking dozens of unconnected city pairs ? That idea went well then !!

easyJet did exactly this but even they are moving ti having the A320 as their smallest aircraft, economies of scale are required.
 
leghorn
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:27 am

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51089118
"The reports come a year after Flybe was bought for £2.2m by a consortium including Virgin Atlantic and Stobart Group.

Since then, the consortium has invested tens of millions of pounds in the troubled carrier, but losses have continued to mount."

The shareholders were bought out for a penny per share and that is the 2.2 or 2.8m accounted for.
How about the other tens of millions that have supposedly been invested. Is there any evidence of that money having been spent?
 
crownvic
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:23 pm

Wonderful news...I am scheduled to fly them to Newquay from LHR on Wednesday this week arriving from USA with a return scheduled 2 weeks later.. Purchased the ticket last fall...I guess I better have a back up plan....
 
Arion640
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:36 pm

crownvic wrote:
Wonderful news...I am scheduled to fly them to Newquay from LHR on Wednesday this week arriving from USA with a return scheduled 2 weeks later.. Purchased the ticket last fall...I guess I better have a back up plan....


You can always take National Express coach. Should be cheap enough
Great Britain: the worlds gateway to Europe.
 
crownvic
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:54 pm

Arion640 wrote:
crownvic wrote:
Wonderful news...I am scheduled to fly them to Newquay from LHR on Wednesday this week arriving from USA with a return scheduled 2 weeks later.. Purchased the ticket last fall...I guess I better have a back up plan....


You can always take National Express coach. Should be cheap enough


thank you for the tip I was looking into renting a car but I did not know there was bus service. I was told the train takes to long.
 
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FabDiva
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:03 pm

National Express is slower then the train taking ~6-7hrs and I think there are only a couple per day - Train to/from Reading (1 per hour from Truro/St Austell) then the Railair bus link to Heathrow is probably your best bet.
 
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OA260
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:04 pm

crownvic wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
crownvic wrote:
Wonderful news...I am scheduled to fly them to Newquay from LHR on Wednesday this week arriving from USA with a return scheduled 2 weeks later.. Purchased the ticket last fall...I guess I better have a back up plan....


You can always take National Express coach. Should be cheap enough


thank you for the tip I was looking into renting a car but I did not know there was bus service. I was told the train takes to long.


+1 for National Express . Decent company and takes around 6 hours with fares about £30 oneway. Ironically Flybe had a logo “Faster than road or rail” but anyone who had been on the short end of their constant delays , tech issues and cancellations may beg to differ.
 
Arion640
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:06 pm

crownvic wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
crownvic wrote:
Wonderful news...I am scheduled to fly them to Newquay from LHR on Wednesday this week arriving from USA with a return scheduled 2 weeks later.. Purchased the ticket last fall...I guess I better have a back up plan....


You can always take National Express coach. Should be cheap enough


thank you for the tip I was looking into renting a car but I did not know there was bus service. I was told the train takes to long.


As mentioned above, it will be longer than the train but should be cheaper. If they haven’t got a service direct from Heathrow you can potentially head into London and back out again on a coach.
Great Britain: the worlds gateway to Europe.
 
yuomi
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:51 pm

Is there any benefit financially to letting FlyBe die and starting the Virgin project with a new brand in its place (and on its metal)? I feel as though, once again, the investors could have avoided this if they'd wanted to, and this is potentially part of the project(?)

Or is that pie in the sky?
 
leghorn
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:59 pm

yuomi wrote:
Is there any benefit financially to letting FlyBe die and starting the Virgin project with a new brand in its place (and on its metal)? I feel as though, once again, the investors could have avoided this if they'd wanted to, and this is potentially part of the project(?)

Or is that pie in the sky?

The existing shareholders were wiped out purely because the Consortium were holding out the promise to keep it as a going concern and investing in it; these were the mental gymnastics that was done by COW's management team to justify given the shareholders nothing i.e. it was to be for the common good and for the benefit of other stakeholders.
If it had been allowed fail at that time the Consortium would have had to fight with everyone else for the assets of the organisation.
Now they are at the levers of control.
All I can see them having paid for is the 1p per share buyout of the existing shareholders.
Where did they spend the tens of millions they reportedly spend.
Is there any evidence that they invested anything at all and flybe has been running for the last 11 months on the working capital that was released when the Credit Cards stopped withholding income from ticket sales. They didn't buy any new planes. Wages and leases were paid from ongoing business.
 
LHRFlyer
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:52 pm

The consortium was meant to provide a £20m bridging loan and £80m of funding for investment.

Even though the consortium had to wait until the European Commission approved the takeover before they could exercise any management control they have had plenty of time to plan what to do.

It seems that Flybe is caught between three shareholders that may have competing interests.

The business cannot be turned around without substantial change and rebranding, but Virgin are not going to want to put their name on a Flybe aircraft when there’s a risk of administration.
 
ScottishDavie
Posts: 216
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Re: Flybe update

Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:52 pm

Virtual737 wrote:
Perhaps if they insisted that their contracted staff never use the phrase "well we don't work for FlyBE so you'll have to take it up with them directly" they might not be in that position?

On a single SOU > MAN flight last year I must have heard that comment more than 20 times and there were only ~50 passengers. All of those extra £40 fees for "over-sized" luggage because the overhead bins are so small and they give ZERO leeway on it is biting them in the ass.

Just 1 executive needs to spend 1 day eavesdropping at a check-in desk and they will see exactly how FlyBE passengers are treated for being so stupid as to bring a carry-on that has fit in every other cabin on every other flight they have ever been on - except for FlyBE.

Perhaps have 2 bag sizers... if it doesn't fit in the small one you have to test it on the second. If it fits in the second (which is the same size of a mainline) then it gets checked for free. If not, it's the £40 charge. That way you might actually retain some customers for whom you were not the only choice.


Well said. Flybe's appalling customer service - which isn't just confined to ripping people off with dodgy luggage-sizers - isn't the sole reason for their current situation but it certainly hasn't helped. A few years ago family circumstances required me to make three return trips at my own expense between EDI and CWL. Out of the six legs only one was on time. Four were late by periods ranging between one and four(!) hours and one was cancelled at the last minute leaving me with a one way car hire and a 400 mile drive also at my own expense. Never again. When I need to go to Cardiff nowadays I fly easyJet to BRS and hire a car which gives me reasonable certainty of being able to get where I need to be when I need to be there. I'm sorry for anyone who loses their job but Flybe simply don't deserve to be in business.
 
leghorn
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:58 pm

LHRFlyer wrote:
The consortium was meant to provide a £20m bridging loan and £80m of funding for investment.

Even though the consortium had to wait until the European Commission approved the takeover before they could exercise any management control they have had plenty of time to plan what to do.

It seems that Flybe is caught between three shareholders that may have competing interests.

The business cannot be turned around without substantial change and rebranding, but Virgin are not going to want to put their name on a Flybe aircraft when there’s a risk of administration.

bridging loans get paid back and were probably paid back when the credit card lifted the hold.
We aren't seeing evidence that they provided any meaningful funding to FlyBE.
Tinkler's rejected counter offer is looking like it was a better option as he didn't have a vested interest in seeing his shareholding being wiped out.
There should be no support from UK government until it is shown that the Consortium put meaningful money in to FlyBE and even then loads of other airlines will be complaining about unfair state support.
Load factors/fares on Ryanair/Easyjet flihts from nearby airports would be higher without FlyBE taking a portion of the market.
 
Breathe
Posts: 557
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:14 pm

Awful news for the staff.

I wonder if the new owners of flybe plan on doing what Loganair did to BMI Regional and essentially get rid of the previous liabilities and reincorporate all the profitable assets and rehire the appropriate number of staff (in their eyes) into a new company.
 
Bhoy
Posts: 437
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:50 pm

Re: Flybe update

Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:45 pm

ScottishDavie wrote:
Virtual737 wrote:
Perhaps if they insisted that their contracted staff never use the phrase "well we don't work for FlyBE so you'll have to take it up with them directly" they might not be in that position?

On a single SOU > MAN flight last year I must have heard that comment more than 20 times and there were only ~50 passengers. All of those extra £40 fees for "over-sized" luggage because the overhead bins are so small and they give ZERO leeway on it is biting them in the ass.

Just 1 executive needs to spend 1 day eavesdropping at a check-in desk and they will see exactly how FlyBE passengers are treated for being so stupid as to bring a carry-on that has fit in every other cabin on every other flight they have ever been on - except for FlyBE.

Perhaps have 2 bag sizers... if it doesn't fit in the small one you have to test it on the second. If it fits in the second (which is the same size of a mainline) then it gets checked for free. If not, it's the £40 charge. That way you might actually retain some customers for whom you were not the only choice.


Well said. Flybe's appalling customer service - which isn't just confined to ripping people off with dodgy luggage-sizers - isn't the sole reason for their current situation but it certainly hasn't helped. A few years ago family circumstances required me to make three return trips at my own expense between EDI and CWL. Out of the six legs only one was on time. Four were late by periods ranging between one and four(!) hours and one was cancelled at the last minute leaving me with a one way car hire and a 400 mile drive also at my own expense. Never again. When I need to go to Cardiff nowadays I fly easyJet to BRS and hire a car which gives me reasonable certainty of being able to get where I need to be when I need to be there. I'm sorry for anyone who loses their job but Flybe simply don't deserve to be in business.

To be fair, I had twenty odd return flights Glasgow-Birmingham last year, and yes, some flights were delayed, a fair amount were on time, though, and on the three occasions a flight was cancelled late on, I got given food Vouchers (for £4, admittedly), and rebooked same day (twice I got rerouted from Birmingham to Edinburgh, and a minibus was put in for travel back to Glasgow). In all these cases, Customer Service was very quick to make an EU261 payment to my Bank Account, and also refunded any excess over £4 for a meal/drink (non alcoholic only) on production of receipts.

The bag sizer always caused some issues at boarding for non regulars, right enough...
 
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FabDiva
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:52 pm

Arion640 wrote:
crownvic wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

You can always take National Express coach. Should be cheap enough


thank you for the tip I was looking into renting a car but I did not know there was bus service. I was told the train takes to long.


As mentioned above, it will be longer than the train but should be cheaper. If they haven’t got a service direct from Heathrow you can potentially head into London and back out again on a coach.


The Cornwall routes from Heathrow are 503 or 504, I can't remember which is north coast and which is south.
 
BealineV953
Posts: 40
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Re: Flybe update

Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:25 pm

nighthawk wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
pdp wrote:


Their business model is dead and buried, has been for years. There's too many frequent trains now, the airport experience is no longer fast and seamless for business travel and APD has killed leisure travellers as well as the religious judgement of our fellow citizens. I was witness to the outrage of "You FLEW to Newquay?" outrage last week against a work colleague.



I dont think the business model is entirely dead and buried.... There are then numerous other routes that are time consuming to get to by train - Scotland to Norfolk / Cornwall / Wales etc.

There are opportunities out there.

Sadly due to flybe's poor reputation, they've lost a few of these markets to an ever expanding Loganair and Stobart Air.


I used to live close to Heathrow. A couple of years I ago I moved to a place close to Bournemouth and found out what travel from the regions is like. With very little air service from BOH, Southampton is effectively my local airport.
As an example of the numerous routes that are time consuming by train, the train from Southampton to Edinburgh takes around 7-8 hours, with one or more changes along the way. Most of the options involve a trek from Waterloo or Paddington across London to King's Cross.
I love a good train journey, but I rarely have all day to get to and from Edinburgh, Glasgow or wherever and would like there to be a reliable air service from a local airport.
The National Express coach to Edinburgh takes around 13 hours. I use National Express regularly, but 13 hours is way beyond my limit.
Down here on this part of the South Coast flyBe have a dreadful reputation. Whenever I say I'm going to use flyBe, friends say things like "...don't book the last flight of the day, it doesn't operate".
The flights I've taken have all operated more or less on time. However, on my last trip I did fall foul of the infamous cabin baggage sizer; the flyBe team at SOU happily took £40 from me, which was more than I paid for the ticket.
£40 goes along way towards the cost of driving to and even parking at Heathrow, which is what I've done ever since.
Ever since childhood, when I lived within sight of London Airport, I have seldom seen a plane go by and not wished I was on it.”
With apologies to Paul Theroux - ‘The Great Railway Bazaar’
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:59 pm

leghorn wrote:
LHRFlyer wrote:
The consortium was meant to provide a £20m bridging loan and £80m of funding for investment.

Even though the consortium had to wait until the European Commission approved the takeover before they could exercise any management control they have had plenty of time to plan what to do.

It seems that Flybe is caught between three shareholders that may have competing interests.

The business cannot be turned around without substantial change and rebranding, but Virgin are not going to want to put their name on a Flybe aircraft when there’s a risk of administration.

bridging loans get paid back and were probably paid back when the credit card lifted the hold.
We aren't seeing evidence that they provided any meaningful funding to FlyBE.
Tinkler's rejected counter offer is looking like it was a better option as he didn't have a vested interest in seeing his shareholding being wiped out.
There should be no support from UK government until it is shown that the Consortium put meaningful money in to FlyBE and even then loads of other airlines will be complaining about unfair state support.
Load factors/fares on Ryanair/Easyjet flihts from nearby airports would be higher without FlyBE taking a portion of the market.


So basically, the way flyBE is still kept in the air, is through having raided (previous) shareholders equity?
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OA260
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:21 pm

Sky News reporting that Flybe has ''begged'' the UK government to defer tax bill to avoid collapse! Not looking good when you see things like that.
 
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nighthawk
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:34 pm

How much is the tax bill?

EDIT: It seems they are asking the government to let them delay paying their APD liabilities, which run to "tens of millions".

Source: https://news.sky.com/story/flybe-begs-m ... l-11908014
 
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OA260
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:43 pm

nighthawk wrote:
How much is the tax bill?

EDIT: It seems they are asking the government to let them delay paying their APD liabilities, which run to "tens of millions".

Source: https://news.sky.com/story/flybe-begs-m ... l-11908014


Tens of millions is all thats quoted.


Flybe begs ministers for help with air duty bill

Flybe could call in administrators as soon as Tuesday without government support, Sky News understands.

Flybe is mounting a last-ditch plea to ministers to defer its multimillion pound air passenger duty (APD) bill as it hovers on the brink of collapse.

Sky News can reveal that Europe's largest regional carrier has asked Whitehall to help it find a way of delaying its APD payments while it runs short of cash during the quieter winter months.

https://news.sky.com/story/flybe-begs-m ... l-11908014

The only hope that Flybe has is that the government may see them as a national service due to their Domestic routes and the impact it would have on the UK as a whole with Business pressuring the powers that be. Thomas Cook was just a holiday company but Flybe is vital to some regions of the UK. Very hard to convince this current government though and then Flybe needs totally shaken up especially in terms of their public perception and reliability. People were genuinely upset when TCX went under but I dont see the same love for Flybe.
 
jomur
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:45 pm

Not a chance. The UK Government has said previously they won't bail out privately owned companies unless it is strategic to the UK and Flybe doesn't fall into this bracket. If FlyBE don't pay their bill now it would be highly likely the UK Government would get nothing later on.
 
leghorn
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:51 pm

That is reckless trading. They need to be shut down. The consortium intentionally let this situation arise and are trying to guilt the government in to throwing them a lifeline when there is no evidence they have put up much of their own money when they stole the company from the previous owners and displaced the previous management. They're snakes.
 
Lufthansa
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:41 pm

Okay a few questions? how much of Flybe's business feeds LHR?
A fair bit may feed Manchester but it needs to work with a solid long haul hub out of a UK airport which basically
means LHR or MAN with a dominate carrier.

Here's your problem. BA where it doesn't have slots to feed LHR can now send A320s from DUB to connect to America.
and KLM already does a pretty good job of serving regional UK in the other direction. If I were them, I wouldn't be calling up
anyone in London.... I'd be calling up DL. AND pull out of markets have a highly competitive rail alternative that don't have
much connectivity

Because for routes where there is higher demand but don't require frequency its too easy for Ryanair and Easyjet to step in.
Sometimes you need to burn everything to the ground and start again.
Last edited by Lufthansa on Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Arion640
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:42 pm

jomur wrote:
Not a chance. The UK Government has said previously they won't bail out privately owned companies unless it is strategic to the UK and Flybe doesn't fall into this bracket. If FlyBE don't pay their bill now it would be highly likely the UK Government would get nothing later on.


It’s more strategic than Thomas Cook was. Ironically this airline supports a lot of Northern seats and communities that put the government in power.

This will hit regional airports a lot harder than the Thomas Cook collapse.
Great Britain: the worlds gateway to Europe.
 
bennett123
Topic Author
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:42 pm

How long do they hold onto the APD money that they take from us before handing it onto HMG.

I have always regarded the board selling the company to this consortium as dodgy, seems like I was right.
 
KingB123
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:43 pm

COW, you should be feeling guilty for all these potential job losses! I really hope flybe do pull through, and get their house in gear! I feel for the staff.
King B
 
Bongodog49
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:03 pm

APD is a tax collected from passengers on behalf of the Govt. Flybe have already had the money, its pure fraud to not hand it over.

Unfortunately they operate a rag bag collection of routes that if they did have a chance of being profitable FR or U2 would be there operating them at a far lower cost than Flybe.
 
Blankbarcode
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:05 pm

Was sitting at my gate for my flight from LCY-AMS this morning when I first read the news. Glad my flight was unaffected but I'd hate for them to go away! I've only ever had good expericenes (which might be in the minority based on what I've been reading) and they're the only reason I can get to certain communities for a reasonable price/timeframe. I'd have considered them as a valuable airline to keep propped up, but maybe I'm just delusional.
 
thegrew
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:11 pm

Bongodog49 wrote:
Unfortunately they operate a rag bag collection of routes that if they did have a chance of being profitable FR or U2 would be there operating them at a far lower cost than Flybe.

I don't completely agree with that statement. Some of Flybe's routes make sense but they are too thin to deploy a 737 or A320 especially with the frequency required to stimulate business demand.

Sent from my moto g(7) plus using Tapatalk
 
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vaughanparry
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:20 pm

The Telegraph's Business section has this - "Why Flybe matters: Valuable connectivity" - which speaks of how invaluable the airline has become for some of the destinations already mentioned e.g. BHD and IOM. For all its obvious failings, it's clearly carved out a niche for itself in certain markets especially where rail and road aren't an option: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51093934
 
gunnerman
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:05 pm

I haven't the time to read all the posts, so excuse me if I'm repeating what's been posted. If you are a big boy like easyJet or Ryanair it makes sense to have multiple hubs, but surely not for FlyBe. Shouldn't they have had a single hub from say, BHX, this would have cut costs by a lot and simplified their operation.
 
thegrew
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:45 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:12 pm

gunnerman wrote:
I haven't the time to read all the posts, so excuse me if I'm repeating what's been posted. If you are a big boy like easyJet or Ryanair it makes sense to have multiple hubs, but surely not for FlyBe. Shouldn't they have had a single hub from say, BHX, this would have cut costs by a lot and simplified their operation.
I think flybe should base itself around some principle hubs but there does still need to be some non hub flying where profitable flows exist. Hubs like MAN, BHX, SOU, EXT and EDI all make sense for their respective regions.
Flybe was never really about connecting traffic though as the distances in the UK are too small if I want to go from Southampton to Edinburgh I want to do it direct rather than spending an extra 45 minutes on the ground at Manchester or Birmingham.

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thegrew
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:16 pm

I also sometimes wondered if the dash 8 fleet is really the best aircraft or if switching to the ATR42/72 would be more profitable for them due to lower fuel costs. I doubt the speed difference is really realised on most routes.

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gunnerman
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:20 pm

This one is simple: fly from Southampton to Edinburgh via BHX or find another way. As any other way is unattractive you'll fly.
 
bennett123
Topic Author
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:40 pm

Well to start with, their MX facilities and Training Academy are at EXE.
 
bennett123
Topic Author
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:41 pm

How much would they save in fuel costs.

How easy would it be to offload over 50 DHC8?.
 
3AWM
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:01 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:00 pm

Not sure if this is correct but when Flybe recieved their slot allocation at LHR for S20 didn't that grandfather their rights to the slots (having served .them for enough seasons).

That would mean VS could just buy the slots, no need to buy the rest of the airline.
 
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OA260
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Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:51 pm

Cabinet trio to thrash out £100m Flybe rescue package

The government insists that Flybe's investors pump new funds into the airline in return for state support, Sky News can reveal.
The business and transport secretaries will on Tuesday hold talks with chancellor Sajid Javid about backing a rescue deal for Flybe that would defer a £100m tax payment until 2023.

Sky News has learnt that Andrea Leadsom and Grant Shapps will meet Mr Javid to discuss the proposed terms of a bailout of one of Britain's largest regional airlines.

https://news.sky.com/story/cabinet-trio ... e-11908144
Last edited by OA260 on Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
LHRFlyer
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:50 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:52 pm

Flybe is asking for its Air Passenger Duty liability to be deferred for 3 years:

https://news.sky.com/story/cabinet-trio ... e-11908144
 
jomur
Posts: 250
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:03 pm

Wrong move to bail out the airline. Its new owners should stump up the cash not the UK tax payer... Next all the high street shops will demand and expect government help.
Last edited by jomur on Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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