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3AWM
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:39 pm

I have seen the BBC article where they say they bought the web address but elsewhere it says they bought all or the IP, stock and equipment.

I think what they actually bought was the entire website and booking engine, which is actually quite expensive to build a new one from scratch. Owning a load of stuff with Flybe branding and the brand Flybe is of value if you have access to a lot of aircraft with Flybe painted down the side.

Re-branding is expensive and unnecessary. It requires a lot of extra advertising the get the new brand known. As VCs are buying it it will probably ultimately get sold on to someone else who already has a brand they want to put on it anyway.
 
bennett123
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:24 pm

 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:09 pm

I think 3AWM is probably correct - there is no guarantee that the assets purchased would be used to reconstitute “FlyBe” (or something similar) or if it is used to constitute an airline it may not be those who purchased the assets anyway.

There may be a rationale for trying to revive something akin to FlyBe - as things stand these individuals have some assets and a low / no cost base. Times are bad in the industry now, but they will get better and they don’t need to launch now (they have no cost base). They can therefore bide their time and and pick their moment to try and pick up some cheap frames , staff and crew.

Will it work if tried? Who knows, but starting something from scratch is likely better than with the millstones of the various onerous contracts FlyBe faced prior to their downfall.
 
bennett123
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:17 pm

Can they call it Flybe, and still avoid taking responsibility for the commitments made by Flybe.

Also are the people/firms burnt by Flybe 1 going to sign up to Flybe 2, especially if some/all of the old crew are involved.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:17 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Can they call it Flybe, and still avoid taking responsibility for the commitments made by Flybe.

Also are the people/firms burnt by Flybe 1 going to sign up to Flybe 2, especially if some/all of the old crew are involved.


In short, yes. The basic distinction between an asset sale and a share sale of a body corporate is that on an asset sale you cherry pick the good bits whereas with the company purchase you get it warts and all. That is before you consider the powers of an administrator.

Who knows how much a new FlyBe (or whatever it’s called) would be tarnished by the old one - I’m sure to an extent it will be.

For that reason I’d be surprised If they called it “FlyBe” but as 3AWM says rebranding is expensive...
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:15 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Can they call it Flybe, and still avoid taking responsibility for the commitments made by Flybe.

Also are the people/firms burnt by Flybe 1 going to sign up to Flybe 2, especially if some/all of the old crew are involved.


In short, yes. The basic distinction between an asset sale and a share sale of a body corporate is that on an asset sale you cherry pick the good bits whereas with the company purchase you get it warts and all. That is before you consider the powers of an administrator.

Who knows how much a new FlyBe (or whatever it’s called) would be tarnished by the old one - I’m sure to an extent it will be.

For that reason I’d be surprised If they called it “FlyBe” but as 3AWM says rebranding is expensive...

At this point the trade name "FlyBe" is an asset as would be an aircraft tow bar. I wouldn't use the brand FlyBe, but someone might have determined the name has value.

Lightsaber
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JannEejit
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:01 pm

Wasn't "Flybe" more of a trading name or slogan rarther than the company name, which was British European, after they outgrew their previous Jersey European brand ? Would using "British European" again be less toxic in the eyes of the flying public ?
 
bennett123
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:09 pm

Pretty sure that FlyBe was the company name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flybe

On 21 February 2019, Flybe announced that the sale of Flybe Limited and Flybe.com Limited to Connect Airways had been completed,[65] with Flybe flights continuing to operate as normal. The sale of the parent company, Flybe Group plc, now an empty shell, was confirmed by its shareholders at a meeting on 4 March[66] and became effective on 11 March.[67]

Several of the airlines hubs, (particularly SOU and EXT) took a big hit when FlyBe 1 went down. I imagine the brand is pretty toxic in those localities. This will not be helped if FlyBe 2 is headed by the same people who headed FlyBe 1.

IMO, either they re brand or forget it.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:38 pm

lightsaber wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Can they call it Flybe, and still avoid taking responsibility for the commitments made by Flybe.

Also are the people/firms burnt by Flybe 1 going to sign up to Flybe 2, especially if some/all of the old crew are involved.


In short, yes. The basic distinction between an asset sale and a share sale of a body corporate is that on an asset sale you cherry pick the good bits whereas with the company purchase you get it warts and all. That is before you consider the powers of an administrator.

Who knows how much a new FlyBe (or whatever it’s called) would be tarnished by the old one - I’m sure to an extent it will be.

For that reason I’d be surprised If they called it “FlyBe” but as 3AWM says rebranding is expensive...

At this point the trade name "FlyBe" is an asset as would be an aircraft tow bar. I wouldn't use the brand FlyBe, but someone might have determined the name has value.

Lightsaber


Completely agree - if I were planning to “relaunch”
FlyBe (so to speak) I would not brand it as FlyBe!

I like the BEA branding idea, but if it’s Cyrus I think they were one of the Connect Airways partners so I wonder whether that might give a clue.
 
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OA260
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:36 pm

JannEejit wrote:
Wasn't "Flybe" more of a trading name or slogan rarther than the company name, which was British European, after they outgrew their previous Jersey European brand ? Would using "British European" again be less toxic in the eyes of the flying public ?


Id rather see Danair or Air UK brought back to life. Jersey European was a decent brand and product it was when they started to mess with the name and try to reinvent themselves that it all started to go wrong.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:28 pm

JannEejit wrote:
Wasn't "Flybe" more of a trading name or slogan rarther than the company name, which was British European, after they outgrew their previous Jersey European brand ? Would using "British European" again be less toxic in the eyes of the flying public ?

Don't BA still own that? Or was it sold to Jersey European back in the day?
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:02 am

I thought they changed their name from "Jersey European" to "British European" and then only a while later did they rebrand to "Flybe". This would suggest they had some sort of rights to use the "British European" name
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:20 am

They changed from Jersey European to British European. I don't ever recall any perceived confusion with the by then long defunct British European Airlines (BEA) brand. It's a moot point of course, but I can see 'British European' being perceived one way or another depending on how Brexit eventually pans out.
 
Allanc1987
Posts: 23
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:12 am

lightsaber wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Can they call it Flybe, and still avoid taking responsibility for the commitments made by Flybe.

Also are the people/firms burnt by Flybe 1 going to sign up to Flybe 2, especially if some/all of the old crew are involved.


In short, yes. The basic distinction between an asset sale and a share sale of a body corporate is that on an asset sale you cherry pick the good bits whereas with the company purchase you get it warts and all. That is before you consider the powers of an administrator.

Who knows how much a new FlyBe (or whatever it’s called) would be tarnished by the old one - I’m sure to an extent it will be.

For that reason I’d be surprised If they called it “FlyBe” but as 3AWM says rebranding is expensive...

At this point the trade name "FlyBe" is an asset as would be an aircraft tow bar. I wouldn't use the brand FlyBe, but someone might have determined the name has value.

Lightsaber


I would like to think it will be under the Virgin name as Virgin
Connect or Virgin something else as is the same people that Owed Virgin America before sold to Alaska.
 
gravytrain
Posts: 50
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:24 am

Utter madness.

They were bleeding money even before COVID and now we are in by far the worst time for commercial aviation ever. In addition, easyJet, Loganair, Aurigny and Eastern hoovered up all the scraps that could actually make money.

Be as well firing all that cash down a drain.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:35 am

Allanc1987 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:

In short, yes. The basic distinction between an asset sale and a share sale of a body corporate is that on an asset sale you cherry pick the good bits whereas with the company purchase you get it warts and all. That is before you consider the powers of an administrator.

Who knows how much a new FlyBe (or whatever it’s called) would be tarnished by the old one - I’m sure to an extent it will be.

For that reason I’d be surprised If they called it “FlyBe” but as 3AWM says rebranding is expensive...

At this point the trade name "FlyBe" is an asset as would be an aircraft tow bar. I wouldn't use the brand FlyBe, but someone might have determined the name has value.

Lightsaber


I would like to think it will be under the Virgin name as Virgin
Connect or Virgin something else as is the same people that Owed Virgin America before sold to Alaska.


I guess that’s possible, but it can have whatever commercial ties it wants (provided they are agreed with a counter party) irrespective of the chosen branding.
 
Bhoy
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:40 am

Allanc1987 wrote:
I would like to think it will be under the Virgin name as Virgin
Connect or Virgin something else as is the same people that Owed Virgin America before sold to Alaska.

Surely whoever owns it is neither here nor there, as using Virgin branding would require paying a fee to use the Name under licence, whether or not they’d previously used it (or planned to use it)?
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:42 am

gravytrain wrote:
Utter madness.

They were bleeding money even before COVID and now we are in by far the worst time for commercial aviation ever. In addition, easyJet, Loganair, Aurigny and Eastern hoovered up all the scraps that could actually make money.


I agree that it would be madness to start trying to fly aircraft now, but the points to consider are:

1 - I don’t know why they we’re bleeding money before Covid, but it has been reported that at least part of the reason was a relatively high cost base and onerous contracts. Those are no longer issues.

2 - unless I’ve missed something there is no intention to start services “right now” (and even if they wanted to I’m not sure they could). There will be a point in time - we hope in the not too distant future - where aircraft and staff costs will remain low, but the ability to start operating in relatively normal trading conditions whilst taking advantage of those low costs will present itself. If they are looking to launch an airline, I suspect that is the point they are looking for.

3 - agreed - the opportunities for anything akin to FlyBe have been reduced. I don’t see a mirror image of FlyBe emerging, I assume it will look very different.
 
ELBOB
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:00 pm

Official registered company names were:

[ Intra Aviation + Express Air ] -> Jersery European Airways Ltd -> Jersey European Airways ( UK ) Ltd -> FlyBE Ltd ( in administration )

Spacegrand Ltd -> Walker Aviation Ltd -> FlyeBE Group Ltd -> FlyeBE Group PLC ( not in administration )

Lorendene Ltd -> Irish European Ltd -> FlyBE Aviation Services Ltd -> AAG DS Ltd ( not in administration )

Anyone holding public shares has them in FlyBE Group PLC
 
AstanaMagic
Posts: 78
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:23 pm

ELBOB wrote:
Official registered company names were:

[ Intra Aviation + Express Air ] -> Jersery European Airways Ltd -> Jersey European Airways ( UK ) Ltd -> FlyBE Ltd ( in administration )

Spacegrand Ltd -> Walker Aviation Ltd -> FlyeBE Group Ltd -> FlyeBE Group PLC ( not in administration )

Lorendene Ltd -> Irish European Ltd -> FlyBE Aviation Services Ltd -> AAG DS Ltd ( not in administration )

Anyone holding public shares has them in FlyBE Group PLC


Just a personal recollection, I have fond memories of Jack Walker, I temped for his PA one summer when he had Walkersteel.
2020: AGP, KSQ, LGW, LHR, MXP, SVQ, TAS, XRY, ZRH
A/C: 32B, 32S, 752, 763, E90
A/L: BA, HY, LX, 2L
 
jomur
Posts: 366
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:15 pm

Allanc1987 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:

In short, yes. The basic distinction between an asset sale and a share sale of a body corporate is that on an asset sale you cherry pick the good bits whereas with the company purchase you get it warts and all. That is before you consider the powers of an administrator.

Who knows how much a new FlyBe (or whatever it’s called) would be tarnished by the old one - I’m sure to an extent it will be.

For that reason I’d be surprised If they called it “FlyBe” but as 3AWM says rebranding is expensive...

At this point the trade name "FlyBe" is an asset as would be an aircraft tow bar. I wouldn't use the brand FlyBe, but someone might have determined the name has value.

Lightsaber


I would like to think it will be under the Virgin name as Virgin
Connect or Virgin something else as is the same people that Owed Virgin America before sold to Alaska.


I would use something else rather than Virgin. It a rather tainted name amongst travellers due to delays in refunds and people will just think is the same company.
 
airsmiles
Posts: 125
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:58 pm

As so many knew the old airline as “FlyMayBe” for good reasons, I sincerely hope they rebrand the new airline.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:55 pm

jomur wrote:
Allanc1987 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
At this point the trade name "FlyBe" is an asset as would be an aircraft tow bar. I wouldn't use the brand FlyBe, but someone might have determined the name has value.

Lightsaber


I would like to think it will be under the Virgin name as Virgin
Connect or Virgin something else as is the same people that Owed Virgin America before sold to Alaska.


I would use something else rather than Virgin. It a rather tainted name amongst travellers due to delays in refunds and people will just think is the same company.


Perhaps they could get the same effect with a retro BEA branding?
 
jomur
Posts: 366
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:04 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
jomur wrote:
Allanc1987 wrote:

I would like to think it will be under the Virgin name as Virgin
Connect or Virgin something else as is the same people that Owed Virgin America before sold to Alaska.


I would use something else rather than Virgin. It a rather tainted name amongst travellers due to delays in refunds and people will just think is the same company.


Perhaps they could get the same effect with a retro BEA branding?


I think BA owns the BEA name.
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 1157
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:19 pm

jomur wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
jomur wrote:

I would use something else rather than Virgin. It a rather tainted name amongst travellers due to delays in refunds and people will just think is the same company.


Perhaps they could get the same effect with a retro BEA branding?


I think BA owns the BEA name.


Sounds like they would get the same effect!
 
Andrw
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:55 am

Flybe closes deal, plans to return in 2021

Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:35 pm

Hello all

I am sorry if this has been discussed alredy.

Great news for aviation world in UK. Flybe may come back to our skies.

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/flybe-c ... n-in-2021/

I would be very glad to see their purple birds back flying over my head, not to mention I was always very happy using their connections from BHX. In current global situation, lets not forget that it's great news for 2000+ people, who lost their jobs back in March.

Does anyone have any more details on the deal? Or maybe even starting date?

Best

Andrw
 
jomur
Posts: 366
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: Flybe closes deal, plans to return in 2021

Fri Oct 23, 2020 8:08 pm

Andrw wrote:
Hello all

I am sorry if this has been discussed alredy.

Great news for aviation world in UK. Flybe may come back to our skies.

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/flybe-c ... n-in-2021/

I would be very glad to see their purple birds back flying over my head, not to mention I was always very happy using their connections from BHX. In current global situation, lets not forget that it's great news for 2000+ people, who lost their jobs back in March.

Does anyone have any more details on the deal? Or maybe even starting date?

Best

Andrw


Highly doubtful... Who would trust Flybe now? It was on dodgy ground reputation wise before it collapsed.
 
Andrw
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:55 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:54 am

I see similar statements to Jomur's all over the net, but to be honest, I was using Flybe very often. There we times when I would board their dash or embraer once a month and I never regretted purchasing tickets with them. I remember the flight crew being always helpful and smiling, flights quick and pleasant, landings soft. Indeed, there were some delays, I even experienced RTO on board of their dash but I guess it happens to any airline, no? I guess I always accommodated some extra time to my trips in case there is a delay, so I can't agree with "dodgy reputation". I think a lot depends on planning and people expect everything to work according to their plans and when something goes wrong, then they pul a massive drama about how bad the airline is.
 
bennett123
Topic Author
Posts: 10026
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:36 am

I suspect that many people who were stranded when FlyBe Mk1 failed plus those who lost jobs,(and their family and friends) will be reluctant to chance it with FlyBe Mk2. I also have concerns when a firm folds, then re opens next week with the same people having purchased the assets for pennies in the pound and their liabilities cancelled.

Furthermore, it is suggested that FlyBe failed due to COVID, but was already on the edge Pre COVID.

Finally, there was also the saga when the directors sold the company over the heads of the shareholders leaving an empty shell. Are those same directors also part of FlyBe Mk2. I doubt that those living around EXT and SOU have forgotten.
 
TC957
Posts: 3863
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:10 am

I feel any resurrection of Flybe should not use that name but bring back the AirUK name with a new branding. Just a shame that Vistara have got the UK flight code.
 
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OA260
Posts: 24590
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Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:35 pm

Andrw wrote:
I see similar statements to Jomur's all over the net, but to be honest, I was using Flybe very often. There we times when I would board their dash or embraer once a month and I never regretted purchasing tickets with them. I remember the flight crew being always helpful and smiling, flights quick and pleasant, landings soft. Indeed, there were some delays, I even experienced RTO on board of their dash but I guess it happens to any airline, no? I guess I always accommodated some extra time to my trips in case there is a delay, so I can't agree with "dodgy reputation". I think a lot depends on planning and people expect everything to work according to their plans and when something goes wrong, then they pul a massive drama about how bad the airline is.


The crew were generally friendly and I loved their E Jets and used them into DSA LGW SOU . Sadly the last few years everything fell apart and they were not reliable. Lots of tech issues that lead to delays often over 2-3 hours and cancellations. They also got a reputation for trying to extort money by playing games with carry on rules. That really got them a lot of bad PR on various media/social media platforms. There were too many people saying the same thing for if to be a one off. They lost the confidence of the business communities across the UK but like the trains it was a case of take it or leave it. Flymaybe was their tag line given to them by their passengers and travel trade for a reason. As for using them to connect to a cruise out of SOU forget it. You had to go the night before and stay in a hotel purely based on their track record. Best to let it die .
 
AstanaMagic
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:57 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:36 pm

TC957 wrote:
I feel any resurrection of Flybe should not use that name but bring back the AirUK name with a new branding. Just a shame that Vistara have got the UK flight code.


Doesn’t the Air UK brand not belong to KLM?
2020: AGP, KSQ, LGW, LHR, MXP, SVQ, TAS, XRY, ZRH
A/C: 32B, 32S, 752, 763, E90
A/L: BA, HY, LX, 2L
 
Andrw
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:55 am

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:36 pm

From the article about bringing back Flybe seems there is some indirect Virgin Atlantic involvement, so maybe Virgin Regional after all?
 
smartplane
Posts: 1555
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:02 pm

OA260 wrote:
Flymaybe was their tag line given to them by their passengers and travel trade for a reason.

But like Danair's Dan Dare, not necessarily justified. They often took on a life of their own. Even BCal (and before merging Cal & United), Court and Laker received monikers, some in hindsight the fertile imagination of competitor PR departments.
 
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OA260
Posts: 24590
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Flybe News and Discussion Thread Update: Flybe ceases flying, enters administration

Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:22 pm

smartplane wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Flymaybe was their tag line given to them by their passengers and travel trade for a reason.

But like Danair's Dan Dare, not necessarily justified. They often took on a life of their own. Even BCal (and before merging Cal & United), Court and Laker received monikers, some in hindsight the fertile imagination of competitor PR departments.


81% bad reviews


https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.flybe.com

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