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MalevTU134
Posts: 2188
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:26 pm

B1168 wrote:
lowfareair wrote:
I see AA creating a 321neo subfleet with lieflats and *gasp* potentially PTVs. United is doing a lie-flat subfleet with the MAX 10, JetBlue has been growing Mint domestically, I think it will only be a matter of time before AA starts losing too many corporate contracts that they acquiesce. It would allow not just PHL/KEF-Western Europe, but also Transcon routes like PHL-LAX/SFO, which would free up the A330 on each of them.


That is ideal if they decide to do so... *IF* they decide to.
Don’t expect anything on AA narrowbody to be humane without further moves. Hopefully they can upgrade every long haul and domestic chunk route to 788/9——that is the only way a nice cabin is ensured.

You mean trunk route? Or junk route?... :duck:
 
asuflyer
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:47 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
B1168 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

Range, yes. Except on a 196 seat aircraft would be interesting. No flat beds, just simple recliners and I don't believe AA is going to go all the way to create another subfleet when they've been trying to reduce subfleets with Oasis.


Well, hopefully that route is popular enough to get a 788 else I will quit. Narrowbodies in general (excluding select 321T or rare generous configuration) are not meant for 7 hour flights, and I will NOT go with it without a pitch of 32’, extra width, an IFE, WiFi, and sufficient restrooms.


I know DL and AA are very different, but they run BOS-LIS on a domestic 757, so maybe a simple recliner NEO from PHL-KEF wouldn't be so bad? How many more seats are on AA's 788 vs the now defunct WOW A333s or even FI 76W?


AA could not to LIS. As part of the JV Agreement and various agreements with BA/oneworld all transatlantic services are required to have lieflats. I could see them getting an an exception for KEF however.
 
Ryanair01
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:27 pm

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:30 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Facts say otherwise

https://www.quora.com/Is-Iceland-consid ... th-America

Iceland is 2,202 KM from Europe


Trust the good folk of a.net to school Icelanders and the Icelandic government about Iceland's geography. It seems Icelanders who write the Icelandic Government's webpages about the geography of Iceland have it all wrong :boggled:

https://www.iceland.is/the-big-picture/nature-environment/geography

I'm not trying to nasty but this is among the 'best' threads of all time :spin: :spin: :spin:

Anyway, AA set the route up to force the Icelanders out of fortress DFW. With Wow bust and FI retreating (before the MAX) it seems to have worked. With the huge drop in capacity from the US to Iceland this summer (no Wow and FI changes) then AA may end up doing OK in 2019.
 
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SRQKEF
Posts: 1950
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:10 pm

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:46 pm

Ryanair01 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Facts say otherwise

https://www.quora.com/Is-Iceland-consid ... th-America

Iceland is 2,202 KM from Europe


Trust the good folk of a.net to school Icelanders and the Icelandic government about Iceland's geography. It seems Icelanders who write the Icelandic Government's webpages about the geography of Iceland have it all wrong :boggled:

https://www.iceland.is/the-big-picture/nature-environment/geography

I'm not trying to nasty but this is among the 'best' threads of all time :spin: :spin: :spin:

Anyway, AA set the route up to force the Icelanders out of fortress DFW. With Wow bust and FI retreating (before the MAX) it seems to have worked. With the huge drop in capacity from the US to Iceland this summer (no Wow and FI changes) then AA may end up doing OK in 2019.


Haha, obviously he knows much better where Iceland is than those of us who actually live here. And in my 16 years of education in Iceland so far, I find it weird that I seem to have learned no geography about our own country at all...here I was thinking we were in Europe this whole time! Thankfully Boof came around and set me straight.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2188
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:02 pm

SRQKEF wrote:
Ryanair01 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Facts say otherwise

https://www.quora.com/Is-Iceland-consid ... th-America

Iceland is 2,202 KM from Europe


Trust the good folk of a.net to school Icelanders and the Icelandic government about Iceland's geography. It seems Icelanders who write the Icelandic Government's webpages about the geography of Iceland have it all wrong :boggled:

https://www.iceland.is/the-big-picture/nature-environment/geography

I'm not trying to nasty but this is among the 'best' threads of all time :spin: :spin: :spin:

Anyway, AA set the route up to force the Icelanders out of fortress DFW. With Wow bust and FI retreating (before the MAX) it seems to have worked. With the huge drop in capacity from the US to Iceland this summer (no Wow and FI changes) then AA may end up doing OK in 2019.


Haha, obviously he knows much better where Iceland is than those of us who actually live here. And in my 16 years of education in Iceland so far, I find it weird that I seem to have learned no geography about our own country at all...here I was thinking we were in Europe this whole time! Thankfully Boof came around and set me straight.

Yes, you should know after 16 years of Icelandic education that the KEF-JFK flights don't go from any continent to any continent. And if they do, nevertheless, it is only because Boof grew up on Long Island. Or do you only learn sagas in school on your island, 2,202 km from Europe?
 
golfingboy
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:03 pm

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:06 pm

I do think PHL will make more sense unless they are making bank on this route from DFW. AA is planning on having a subfleet of 321 NEOs with ETOPs designated for Hawaii flying and I have a feeling some will be based in PHL/CLT for some Caribbean flying. The same subfleet could also cover KEF.

Yes the JV lie flat seat in J requirement will be complicated but AA doesn’t have to offer a J product. They can just code the front cabin as premium economy and get around this requirement.
 
B1168
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:26 pm

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:05 am

golfingboy wrote:
I do think PHL will make more sense unless they are making bank on this route from DFW. AA is planning on having a subfleet of 321 NEOs with ETOPs designated for Hawaii flying and I have a feeling some will be based in PHL/CLT for some Caribbean flying. The same subfleet could also cover KEF.

Yes the JV lie flat seat in J requirement will be complicated but AA doesn’t have to offer a J product. They can just code the front cabin as premium economy and get around this requirement.


But that means no actual business class, which means nearly no premium/contract traffic. As far as I’m concerned, American is unlikely to be that successful in terms of leisure traffic like TUI.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2940
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:23 am

golfingboy wrote:
I do think PHL will make more sense unless they are making bank on this route from DFW. AA is planning on having a subfleet of 321 NEOs with ETOPs designated for Hawaii flying and I have a feeling some will be based in PHL/CLT for some Caribbean flying. The same subfleet could also cover KEF.

Yes the JV lie flat seat in J requirement will be complicated but AA doesn’t have to offer a J product. They can just code the front cabin as premium economy and get around this requirement.


Subfleet OF the A321neo? Or just subfleet on the A320 family in general? Because I'm pretty sure all A321neos AA is receiving are ETOPs verified?...
 
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klm617
Posts: 5104
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:03 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
If FI wasn't short planes, I could see FI keeping DFW-KEF. But down 9 planes because of the MAX grounding, they have to triage.



DFW was canceled long before the MAX issue.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
Posts: 5104
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:10 am

SRQKEF wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Facts say otherwise

https://www.quora.com/Is-Iceland-consid ... th-America

Iceland is 2,202 KM from Europe


So are we just a country without a continent then? :mrgreen:

You do realise mainland Europe and Europe as a whole are two different things? Or do you consider the UK and Ireland to be outside Europe as well? Brexit notwithstanding... ;)



According to that line of thinking Ireland and Great Britain are not part of Europe either.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
grbauc
Posts: 1469
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:30 am

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
No DFW-KEF was one of the worst routes served by AA.Also like you said loads are good but in general the route was terrible and had a lot of bad reviews.


Can you please supply some data/facts for this? Just really would like to see where this info is coming from.
Planes never has facts. Just ramblings.

I hope they keep the flight, but it feels like if AA ever needed to lean up KEF would be the first to go. Also, PHL might be a better location for the flight, so they do not need to use a 757.


PHL is a better location i agree with you.
 
golfingboy
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:03 pm

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:40 pm

B1168 wrote:
golfingboy wrote:
I do think PHL will make more sense unless they are making bank on this route from DFW. AA is planning on having a subfleet of 321 NEOs with ETOPs designated for Hawaii flying and I have a feeling some will be based in PHL/CLT for some Caribbean flying. The same subfleet could also cover KEF.

Yes the JV lie flat seat in J requirement will be complicated but AA doesn’t have to offer a J product. They can just code the front cabin as premium economy and get around this requirement.


But that means no actual business class, which means nearly no premium/contract traffic. As far as I’m concerned, American is unlikely to be that successful in terms of leisure traffic like TUI.


Right - Icelandair doesn't even offer business class. They call Saga business but really its a PE hard product with fares that are more akin to PE prices.

DL has a few EU routes where they are using a standard configured 757 (Ponta Delgada is one but I know there are 1 or 2 others) and selling the front cabin as Premium Select. I get your point, but I don't think there is substantial business traffic to KEF plus its a relatively short flight which means many corporate policies do not allow booking business (most have 6 or 8 hour minimum requirement).

AA will be tailoring this route to the leisure market and this wouldn't be any different from say ANC or the ski destinations.
 
golfingboy
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:03 pm

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:43 pm

Ishrion wrote:
golfingboy wrote:
I do think PHL will make more sense unless they are making bank on this route from DFW. AA is planning on having a subfleet of 321 NEOs with ETOPs designated for Hawaii flying and I have a feeling some will be based in PHL/CLT for some Caribbean flying. The same subfleet could also cover KEF.

Yes the JV lie flat seat in J requirement will be complicated but AA doesn’t have to offer a J product. They can just code the front cabin as premium economy and get around this requirement.


Subfleet OF the A321neo? Or just subfleet on the A320 family in general? Because I'm pretty sure all A321neos AA is receiving are ETOPs verified?...


I wasn't 100% on whether AA was going to make all A321neos ETOPs certified. Just knew a nice chunk of them will be doing Hawaii flights and will be ETOPS certified. If AA does certify all A321neos then you are right no need for a subfleet.
 
apodino
Posts: 3943
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:50 pm

golfingboy wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
golfingboy wrote:
I do think PHL will make more sense unless they are making bank on this route from DFW. AA is planning on having a subfleet of 321 NEOs with ETOPs designated for Hawaii flying and I have a feeling some will be based in PHL/CLT for some Caribbean flying. The same subfleet could also cover KEF.

Yes the JV lie flat seat in J requirement will be complicated but AA doesn’t have to offer a J product. They can just code the front cabin as premium economy and get around this requirement.


Subfleet OF the A321neo? Or just subfleet on the A320 family in general? Because I'm pretty sure all A321neos AA is receiving are ETOPs verified?...


I wasn't 100% on whether AA was going to make all A321neos ETOPs certified. Just knew a nice chunk of them will be doing Hawaii flights and will be ETOPS certified. If AA does certify all A321neos then you are right no need for a subfleet.


Only about the first 30-35 Neos will be ETOPS...the rest will not be.
 
panamair
Posts: 4343
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:01 pm

golfingboy wrote:
DL has a few EU routes where they are using a standard configured 757 (Ponta Delgada is one but I know there are 1 or 2 others) and selling the front cabin as Premium Select. I get your point, but I don't think there is substantial business traffic to KEF plus its a relatively short flight which means many corporate policies do not allow booking business (most have 6 or 8 hour minimum requirement).


FYI - This summer, DL will be using domestic-configured 757s and selling the front cabin as Premium Select (so no J) on the following routes:
JFK-KEF
JFK-SNN
JFK-PDL
MSP-KEF
BOS-LIS
 
B1168
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:26 pm

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:00 pm

golfingboy wrote:
B1168 wrote:
golfingboy wrote:
I do think PHL will make more sense unless they are making bank on this route from DFW. AA is planning on having a subfleet of 321 NEOs with ETOPs designated for Hawaii flying and I have a feeling some will be based in PHL/CLT for some Caribbean flying. The same subfleet could also cover KEF.

Yes the JV lie flat seat in J requirement will be complicated but AA doesn’t have to offer a J product. They can just code the front cabin as premium economy and get around this requirement.


But that means no actual business class, which means nearly no premium/contract traffic. As far as I’m concerned, American is unlikely to be that successful in terms of leisure traffic like TUI.


Right - Icelandair doesn't even offer business class. They call Saga business but really its a PE hard product with fares that are more akin to PE prices.

DL has a few EU routes where they are using a standard configured 757 (Ponta Delgada is one but I know there are 1 or 2 others) and selling the front cabin as Premium Select. I get your point, but I don't think there is substantial business traffic to KEF plus its a relatively short flight which means many corporate policies do not allow booking business (most have 6 or 8 hour minimum requirement).

AA will be tailoring this route to the leisure market and this wouldn't be any different from say ANC or the ski destinations.


Speaking of ANC, it seems to me that AA is to ramp up 788s for the popular months for DFW-ANC. Emmm... interesting, for 788 has 20/28 J seats.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1469
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:08 pm

B1168 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:

You could have just stayed quiet after the first embarrassing post, but alas here you are.

Anyway, I think PHL would work out way better for them. Could probably get there on a NEO, no?


Range, yes. Except on a 196 seat aircraft would be interesting. No flat beds, just simple recliners and I don't believe AA is going to go all the way to create another subfleet when they've been trying to reduce subfleets with Oasis.


Well, hopefully that route is popular enough to get a 788 else I will quit. Narrowbodies in general (excluding select 321T or rare generous configuration) are not meant for 7 hour flights, and I will NOT go with it without a pitch of 32’, extra width, an IFE, WiFi, and sufficient restrooms.



I agree with you. AA holding out on making more Flatbed 757's or A321's is a missed opportunity. But we know many big business playbook and that's follow the leader, when and only if they have to.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2940
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:13 pm

grbauc wrote:
B1168 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

Range, yes. Except on a 196 seat aircraft would be interesting. No flat beds, just simple recliners and I don't believe AA is going to go all the way to create another subfleet when they've been trying to reduce subfleets with Oasis.


Well, hopefully that route is popular enough to get a 788 else I will quit. Narrowbodies in general (excluding select 321T or rare generous configuration) are not meant for 7 hour flights, and I will NOT go with it without a pitch of 32’, extra width, an IFE, WiFi, and sufficient restrooms.



I agree with you. AA holding out on making more Flatbed 757's or A321's is a missed opportunity. But we know many big business playbook and that's follow the leader, when and only if they have to.


Unless AA is looking for boeing’s 757 replacement.

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