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Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:59 pm
by jetsetterusa
Since the only reason why AA started KEF was because of the other 2 airlines flying to DFW from KEF and since both pulled out do you think AA will keep flying to KEF? I am looking at the loads and they seem really full but still does not mean they making anything it's about $$$ in seats than butts in seats. I hope they keep it and maybe go year round...

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:02 pm
by Antarius
We can only speculate. That said, both WW and FI cancelled the flight after last summer and AA is still flying it this summer, so they clearly see some value in it.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:04 pm
by Planes4you
No DFW-KEF was one of the worst routes served by AA.Also like you said loads are good but in general the route was terrible and had a lot of bad reviews.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:10 pm
by TWA302
Planes4you wrote:
No DFW-KEF was one of the worst routes served by AA.Also like you said loads are good but in general the route was terrible and had a lot of bad reviews.


Can you please supply some data/facts for this? Just really would like to see where this info is coming from.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:24 pm
by YouGeeElWhy
TWA302 wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
No DFW-KEF was one of the worst routes served by AA.Also like you said loads are good but in general the route was terrible and had a lot of bad reviews.


Can you please supply some data/facts for this? Just really would like to see where this info is coming from.
Planes never has facts. Just ramblings.

I hope they keep the flight, but it feels like if AA ever needed to lean up KEF would be the first to go. Also, PHL might be a better location for the flight, so they do not need to use a 757.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:39 pm
by Freshside3
I think the thing that is saving this flight, is that UA did not put a flight into IAH. Otherwise Texas would have been the only major US region without a flight to KEF.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:44 pm
by MIflyer12
I won't speculate what AA's yields will be with WOW and Icelandic both exiting the market but there ought to be decent seasonal demand between a market the size of DFW and KEF.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:53 pm
by lowfareair
YouGeeElWhy wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
No DFW-KEF was one of the worst routes served by AA.Also like you said loads are good but in general the route was terrible and had a lot of bad reviews.


Can you please supply some data/facts for this? Just really would like to see where this info is coming from.
Planes never has facts. Just ramblings.

I hope they keep the flight, but it feels like if AA ever needed to lean up KEF would be the first to go. Also, PHL might be a better location for the flight, so they do not need to use a 757.


The 757 use at PHL would come down entirely to the BA JV which stipulates flat beds must be on all US-Europe flights by the carriers. If Iceland is considered part of Europe per the JV, then AA will need to use equipment with a flat bed business class, so essentially the 757.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:58 pm
by enilria
jetsetterusa wrote:
Since the only reason why AA started KEF was because of the other 2 airlines flying to DFW from KEF and since both pulled out do you think AA will keep flying to KEF? I am looking at the loads and they seem really full but still does not mean they making anything it's about $$$ in seats than butts in seats. I hope they keep it and maybe go year round...

My guess is that they will start limiting sales for 2020 by restricting low end seats and leave that selling until FI makes fairly clear their 2020 plans and if they don't think FI is going to resume it they will axe it for 2020. I assume they aren't flying it this Winter, that seems obviously gone.

It's kind of like football cornerbacks, they have to be wary of the "double move". If they drop it, FI adds it, and then they put it back in (a double move) that IMHO is about the most obviously anti-competitive thing they could do in terms of the DOJ maybe actually doing something (still probably wouldn't). That makes it clear as crystal. I think they will avoid that by waiting until late to cancel it while limiting booking impact.

Having said that, they should be flying it from PHL.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:03 pm
by Boof02671
Last time I checked Iceland isn’t part of Europe.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:06 pm
by Eirules
Boof02671 wrote:
Last time I checked Iceland isn’t part of Europe.


So what continent is it in? In sporting terms it’s part of UEFA. In musical terms it’s in the Eurovision. While not in the EU, it is part of EFTA.

Hmmmm

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:08 pm
by Boof02671
It’s not attached to any continent. Did you fail geography?

https://i2.wp.com/moon.com/wp-content/u ... .jpg?ssl=1

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:08 pm
by hvusslax
Boof02671 wrote:
Last time I checked Iceland isn’t part of Europe.


What's Europe?

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:11 pm
by mutu
Boof02671 wrote:
Last time I checked Iceland isn’t part of Europe.


the place to look is the Iceland/US bilateral or EU/US open skies documentation which either includes or ignores Iceland as part of the agreement, rather than an Atlas where you are quite right of course geographically.

ps Australia and Israel are in the Eurovision Song Contest but I am not sure that defines the meaning of "Europe" !!

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:23 pm
by MalevTU134
Boof02671 wrote:
It’s not attached to any continent. Did you fail geography?

https://i2.wp.com/moon.com/wp-content/u ... .jpg?ssl=1

Geeez. Without words. So, by your reasoning, Long Island, Martha's Vineyard and Key West are not part of America? Hey, maybe I failed geography, too.
Please don't let this thread go down that avenue.....

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:23 pm
by SonaSounds
TWA302 wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
No DFW-KEF was one of the worst routes served by AA.Also like you said loads are good but in general the route was terrible and had a lot of bad reviews.


Can you please supply some data/facts for this? Just really would like to see where this info is coming from.


The flight averaged a 77.4% load factor from Jun-Oct 2018 according to T-100 data. Not the best, but certainly not the worst.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:23 pm
by drdisque
mutu wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Last time I checked Iceland isn’t part of Europe.


the place to look is the Iceland/US bilateral or EU/US open skies documentation which either includes or ignores Iceland as part of the agreement, rather than an Atlas where you are quite right of course geographically.

ps Australia and Israel are in the Eurovision Song Contest but I am not sure that defines the meaning of "Europe" !!


Actually, the AA/IAG JV would explicitly call out what nations are covered in the JV. Since you don't have access to that document, none of you know.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:26 pm
by Planes4you
TWA302 wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
No DFW-KEF was one of the worst routes served by AA.Also like you said loads are good but in general the route was terrible and had a lot of bad reviews.


Can you please supply some data/facts for this? Just really would like to see where this info is coming from.


According to the DOT it was the worst AA transatlantic market last summer.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:28 pm
by Ishrion
MalevTU134 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
It’s not attached to any continent. Did you fail geography?

https://i2.wp.com/moon.com/wp-content/u ... .jpg?ssl=1

Geeez. Without words. So, by your reasoning, Long Island, Martha's Vineyard and Key West are not part of America? Hey, maybe I failed geography, too.
Please don't let this thread go down that avenue.....


Hawaii isn’t a part of the United States :rotfl:

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:55 pm
by TWA302
Planes4you wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
No DFW-KEF was one of the worst routes served by AA.Also like you said loads are good but in general the route was terrible and had a lot of bad reviews.


Can you please supply some data/facts for this? Just really would like to see where this info is coming from.


According to the DOT it was the worst AA transatlantic market last summer.


Not trying to be a jerk, but can you point me to these reports? I really am interested in seeing some other route stats. Thanks

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:55 pm
by santi319
Only in A-nets “Iceland isnt part of Europe” would be a thing..

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:00 pm
by hpff
santi319 wrote:
Only in A-nets “Iceland isnt part of Europe” would be a thing..


Geologically, it's both North American and Eurasia... the geologic fault runs through the middle of the country, and Keflavik's on the American side.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:00 pm
by Boof02671
Hawaii is a US state and Long Island is part of NY. I grew up there compare apples to apples not oranges.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:15 pm
by SRQKEF
Boof02671 wrote:
Hawaii is a US state and Long Island is part of NY. I grew up there compare apples to apples not oranges.


I'm an Icelander who has lived there ever since I was born. We are most definitely a part of Europe, thank you very much.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:26 pm
by Boof02671
Facts say otherwise

https://www.quora.com/Is-Iceland-consid ... th-America

Iceland is 2,202 KM from Europe

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:27 pm
by rgreenftm

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:30 pm
by Eirules
Boof02671 wrote:
It’s not attached to any continent. Did you fail geography?

https://i2.wp.com/moon.com/wp-content/u ... .jpg?ssl=1


Malta. Cyprus. UK. Ireland. None of these are “attached” to the continent so by your logic they’re not part of Europe? WOW. And I’m comparing apples to apples, no oranges required

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:31 pm
by SRQKEF
Boof02671 wrote:
Facts say otherwise

https://www.quora.com/Is-Iceland-consid ... th-America

Iceland is 2,202 KM from Europe


So are we just a country without a continent then? :mrgreen:

You do realise mainland Europe and Europe as a whole are two different things? Or do you consider the UK and Ireland to be outside Europe as well? Brexit notwithstanding... ;)

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:33 pm
by BRflyer
I doubt there is OD traffic between both, since Icelandair and Wow had lota of connections

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:48 pm
by BN727227Ultra
SRQKEF wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Hawaii is a US state and Long Island is part of NY. I grew up there compare apples to apples not oranges.


I'm an Icelander who has lived there ever since I was born. We are most definitely a part of Europe, thank you very much.


I was going to post "ask an Icelander"...thanks! :-)

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:56 pm
by YouGeeElWhy
SRQKEF wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Facts say otherwise

https://www.quora.com/Is-Iceland-consid ... th-America

Iceland is 2,202 KM from Europe


So are we just a country without a continent then? :mrgreen:

You do realise mainland Europe and Europe as a whole are two different things? Or do you consider the UK and Ireland to be outside Europe as well? Brexit notwithstanding... ;)
wait till they find out Russia and Turkey are in both Europe and Asia. :spin:

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:16 pm
by Austin787
DFW-KEF serves 3 markets:
1) DFW - Iceland
2) DFW - Europe (via KEF) : with the DFW - Europe nonstops already available, I think this market probably requires significantly discounted fares (which mean lower revenues)
3) USA - Iceland (via DFW)

WOW and Icelandair focused on 1 and 2, while AA focused on 1 and 3.

SonaSounds wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
No DFW-KEF was one of the worst routes served by AA.Also like you said loads are good but in general the route was terrible and had a lot of bad reviews.


Can you please supply some data/facts for this? Just really would like to see where this info is coming from.


The flight averaged a 77.4% load factor from Jun-Oct 2018 according to T-100 data. Not the best, but certainly not the worst.

Last year had AA, WOW, and Icelandair on the route. Will be interesting to find out what the data will be this year with AA being the sole operator of DFW-KEF.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:19 pm
by RJNUT
I would think they would keep it as just a summer seasonal add like all the other "cooler weather" offerings people seek out. With WOW and FI seemingly out ,the yields should improve and besides, they are pulling passengers from ABQ, ELP, , type markets in which AA might be the only single connection offered.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:19 pm
by MalevTU134
Boof02671 wrote:
Hawaii is a US state and Long Island is part of NY. I grew up there compare apples to apples not oranges.

Long Island is part of the continent of America (or North America...you choose which) because you grew up there? A bit egocentric, are we? Donald, is that you??...

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:21 pm
by wenders825
great thread with lots of facts and no reports or anything

AA has discussed making this route year round internally. while that I can't provide a link to, i'm sure employees can vouch

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:22 pm
by maps4ltd
Personally, I'd rather AA fly something other than their old 752 on this route. No IFE or power for 8 hours? Really?

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:24 pm
by Ishrion
wenders825 wrote:
great thread with lots of facts and no reports or anything

AA has discussed making this route year round internally. while that I can't provide a link to, i'm sure employees can vouch


Viewfromthewing has it, and that was back in october when WOW and Icelandair were both flying. It was probably used to try and scare the carriers. Although, with them gone they’d have stronger yields even on year round.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:27 pm
by rajincajun01
Planes4you wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
No DFW-KEF was one of the worst routes served by AA.Also like you said loads are good but in general the route was terrible and had a lot of bad reviews.


Can you please supply some data/facts for this? Just really would like to see where this info is coming from.


According to the DOT it was the worst AA transatlantic market last summer.


Since you are not providing the actual source, what element is the worst? LF, yield, on-time performance...

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:52 pm
by MalevTU134
arcticcruiser wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Facts say otherwise

https://www.quora.com/Is-Iceland-consid ... th-America

Iceland is 2,202 KM from Europe


That is probably the stupidest false “fact” you could find.

Don't underestimate his ability...
According to him, he's the only one in this thread who didn't fail geography.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:38 pm
by Ishrion
MalevTU134 wrote:
arcticcruiser wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Facts say otherwise

https://www.quora.com/Is-Iceland-consid ... th-America

Iceland is 2,202 KM from Europe


That is probably the stupidest false “fact” you could find.

Don't underestimate his ability...
According to him, he's the only one in this thread who didn't fail geography.


Of all sources you use... Quora...

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:43 pm
by OB1504
maps4ltd wrote:
Personally, I'd rather AA fly something other than their old 752 on this route. No IFE or power for 8 hours? Really?


Pretty much the same you’d get on their 767, though both aircraft do have the overhead screens, in-seat audio, and power at select rows. If you’re on one of the newer 767s, you might get the perk of an IFE box eating up your underseat space without there being any IFE system installed.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:19 pm
by BigGSFO
Iceland is a popular destination. The flight itself might not be a cash cow, but it fits into AA's transatlantic portfolio nicely, and I am sure many frequent flyers are booking these flights as opposed to taking AA to a gateway then Icelandair the rest fo the way. I would expect to see PHL-KEF at some point.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:37 pm
by maps4ltd
BigGSFO wrote:
Iceland is a popular destination. The flight itself might not be a cash cow, but it fits into AA's transatlantic portfolio nicely, and I am sure many frequent flyers are booking these flights as opposed to taking AA to a gateway then Icelandair the rest fo the way. I would expect to see PHL-KEF at some point.


Agreed, similar to how DL flies JFK-KEF.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:05 pm
by 9w748capt
Wow ... the stupidity in this thread ... just wow.

I think a bigger threat to this route is that the Icelandic tourism bubble has to burst at some point. Fantastic (if not expensive as hell) place to visit, but I have a feeling it's a place you go once and call it good. Compare that to somewhere like Italy. I don't think my wife and I will ever get sick of going to Italy, but I can't see us returning to Iceland anytime soon.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:17 am
by gatibosgru
B1168 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:

I think PHL would work out way better for them. Could probably get there on a NEO, no?


Range, yes. Except on a 196 seat aircraft would be interesting. No flat beds, just simple recliners and I don't believe AA is going to go all the way to create another subfleet when they've been trying to reduce subfleets with Oasis.


Well, hopefully that route is popular enough to get a 788 else I will quit. Narrowbodies in general (excluding select 321T or rare generous configuration) are not meant for 7 hour flights, and I will NOT go with it without a pitch of 32’, extra width, an IFE, WiFi, and sufficient restrooms.


I know DL and AA are very different, but they run BOS-LIS on a domestic 757, so maybe a simple recliner NEO from PHL-KEF wouldn't be so bad? How many more seats are on AA's 788 vs the now defunct WOW A333s or even FI 76W?

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:26 am
by Ishrion
gatibosgru wrote:
B1168 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

Range, yes. Except on a 196 seat aircraft would be interesting. No flat beds, just simple recliners and I don't believe AA is going to go all the way to create another subfleet when they've been trying to reduce subfleets with Oasis.


Well, hopefully that route is popular enough to get a 788 else I will quit. Narrowbodies in general (excluding select 321T or rare generous configuration) are not meant for 7 hour flights, and I will NOT go with it without a pitch of 32’, extra width, an IFE, WiFi, and sufficient restrooms.


I know DL and AA are very different, but they run BOS-LIS on a domestic 757, so maybe a simple recliner NEO from PHL-KEF wouldn't be so bad? How many more seats are on AA's 788 vs the now defunct WOW A333s or even FI 76W?


AA: 20J 28W 186Y = 234 total
FI: 25 Saga, 234 Economy = 259 total

I don't believe AA's neo's ViaSat WiFi is covered in the transatlantic. Pretty sure DL's 757s have IFEs while AA's neo only has streaming BYOD.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:16 am
by aemoreira1981
If FI wasn't short planes, I could see FI keeping DFW-KEF. But down 9 planes because of the MAX grounding, they have to triage.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:46 am
by lowfareair
I see AA creating a 321neo subfleet with lieflats and *gasp* potentially PTVs. United is doing a lie-flat subfleet with the MAX 10, JetBlue has been growing Mint domestically, I think it will only be a matter of time before AA starts losing too many corporate contracts that they acquiesce. It would allow not just PHL/KEF-Western Europe, but also Transcon routes like PHL-LAX/SFO, which would free up the A330 on each of them.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:00 pm
by PHLCVGAMTK
lowfareair wrote:
I see AA creating a 321neo subfleet with lieflats and *gasp* potentially PTVs. United is doing a lie-flat subfleet with the MAX 10, JetBlue has been growing Mint domestically, I think it will only be a matter of time before AA starts losing too many corporate contracts that they acquiesce. It would allow not just PHL/KEF-Western Europe, but also Transcon routes like PHL-LAX/SFO, which would free up the A330 on each of them.


Much as I agree that AA should be creating/expanding an lieflat premium-configured A321 fleet, for routes like PHL-KEF, PHL-SNN, PHL-EDI, etc., I believe that the PHL-LAX/SFO A332 routes are driven by air cargo demand as much as by premium lieflats. If AA wants to free up those widebodies, it needs another way to get lots of containers from PHL to the West Coast on just NBs.

Re: Will AA keep KEF?

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:23 pm
by B1168
lowfareair wrote:
I see AA creating a 321neo subfleet with lieflats and *gasp* potentially PTVs. United is doing a lie-flat subfleet with the MAX 10, JetBlue has been growing Mint domestically, I think it will only be a matter of time before AA starts losing too many corporate contracts that they acquiesce. It would allow not just PHL/KEF-Western Europe, but also Transcon routes like PHL-LAX/SFO, which would free up the A330 on each of them.


That is ideal if they decide to do so... *IF* they decide to.
Don’t expect anything on AA narrowbody to be humane without further moves. Hopefully they can upgrade every long haul and domestic chunk route to 788/9——that is the only way a nice cabin is ensured.