Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
B6JFKH81 wrote:WN wasn't the problem. VX was. Once VX started up in SFO, there were less people crossing over the bridge to fly out of OAK since VX had a very similar product and price structure. So, B6 had to re-focus on the bay area and make SFO the primary airport for their operation. It wasn't an experiment, it was an LCC using a secondary airport in a region which is common but having to change game plans with a switch in competition and customer preferences.
jfklganyc wrote:From NY, B6 flies to SAN LGB ONT LAX BUR SJC OAK SFO and SMF.
No other airline even comes close to offering that level of transcon service from NY, let alone BOS
wnflyguy wrote:[threeid][/threeid]B6JFKH81 wrote:WN wasn't the problem. VX was. Once VX started up in SFO, there were less people crossing over the bridge to fly out of OAK since VX had a very similar product and price structure. So, B6 had to re-focus on the bay area and make SFO the primary airport for their operation. It wasn't an experiment, it was an LCC using a secondary airport in a region which is common but having to change game plans with a switch in competition and customer preferences.
Also before VX started up WN made a big blunder by pulling out of SFO with the anticipation everyone would treak to OAK and SJC.
B6 saw a great opportunity to close up most flights and relocate to SFO were it's yields almost double vs the traffic at OAK.
With VX and B6 both doing better it forced WN to reinstall SFO service.
JetBlue is supposed to get 5 gates on the new A concourse.
Flyguy
psa1011 wrote:It seems like B6 could add a daytime OAK-JFK given the growth in the East Bay.
FLIHGH wrote:OAK-IAD actually held on for pretty long, but I don’t believe it was daily towards the end. But, it made it to this decade.
tphuang wrote:wnflyguy wrote:[threeid][/threeid]B6JFKH81 wrote:WN wasn't the problem. VX was. Once VX started up in SFO, there were less people crossing over the bridge to fly out of OAK since VX had a very similar product and price structure. So, B6 had to re-focus on the bay area and make SFO the primary airport for their operation. It wasn't an experiment, it was an LCC using a secondary airport in a region which is common but having to change game plans with a switch in competition and customer preferences.
Also before VX started up WN made a big blunder by pulling out of SFO with the anticipation everyone would treak to OAK and SJC.
B6 saw a great opportunity to close up most flights and relocate to SFO were it's yields almost double vs the traffic at OAK.
With VX and B6 both doing better it forced WN to reinstall SFO service.
JetBlue is supposed to get 5 gates on the new A concourse.
Flyguy
where did you hear that they are moving to concourse A? I'm pretty sure they are moving to Terminal 1 given this tweet
https://twitter.com/Erik_Ascending/stat ... 3136392192
On the subject of JFK to California market, B6 is definitely the leader per Q4.
Carrier flights Board
B6 4461 632530
DL 3492 596224
AA 3191 297531
this counts LAX, SFO, SAN, SMF, BUR, LGB, ONT, PSP, SJC, OAK
MIflyer12 wrote:jfklganyc wrote:From NY, B6 flies to SAN LGB ONT LAX BUR SJC OAK SFO and SMF.
No other airline even comes close to offering that level of transcon service from NY, let alone BOS
AirFiero wrote:SJC and OAK pretty much always get f***ed by SFO. Or by local people’s belief that the only airport in the Bay Area is SFO.
AirFiero wrote:SJC and OAK pretty much always get f***ed by SFO. Or by local people’s belief that the only airport in the Bay Area is SFO.
OAKSpotter wrote:UA is considering to return service to OAK. Although the date has not been announced as of yet coming from an official. OAK is slowly recovering of the routes lost from the 2008 crash.
ATL is now year-round on DL and DFW is back on AA. WN is adding LIH, HLI, and HTO in the near future. Moxy Airways is interested in adding service to OAK. It's just a matter a time when we'll see a Terminal 3 expansion project get off the ground. The OAK marketing team is working hard in adding more air-service as possible. We won't see a project happening at least in the coming next five years.
OAKSpotter wrote:UA is considering to return service to OAK. Although the date has not been announced as of yet coming from an official. OAK is slowly recovering of the routes lost from the 2008 crash.
ATL is now year-round on DL and DFW is back on AA. WN is adding LIH, HLI, and HTO in the near future. Moxy Airways is interested in adding service to OAK. It's just a matter a time when we'll see a Terminal 3 expansion project get off the ground. The OAK marketing team is working hard in adding more air-service as possible. We won't see a project happening at least in the coming next five years.
intotheair wrote:AirFiero wrote:SJC and OAK pretty much always get f***ed by SFO. Or by local people’s belief that the only airport in the Bay Area is SFO.
I still think OAK’s best days are ahead of itself. It’s the only one of the three with lots of potential to expand. The BART connection has made it much easier to get to San Francisco and elsewhere. Terminal 2 is looking nice, now if only Terminal 1 could get another good remodel...
AirFiero wrote:OAKSpotter wrote:UA is considering to return service to OAK. Although the date has not been announced as of yet coming from an official. OAK is slowly recovering of the routes lost from the 2008 crash.
ATL is now year-round on DL and DFW is back on AA. WN is adding LIH, HLI, and HTO in the near future. Moxy Airways is interested in adding service to OAK. It's just a matter a time when we'll see a Terminal 3 expansion project get off the ground. The OAK marketing team is working hard in adding more air-service as possible. We won't see a project happening at least in the coming next five years.
Why would UA want to build up OAK (or SJC for that matter) when they have a massive hub at SFO?
dfwjim1 wrote:intotheair wrote:AirFiero wrote:SJC and OAK pretty much always get f***ed by SFO. Or by local people’s belief that the only airport in the Bay Area is SFO.
I still think OAK’s best days are ahead of itself. It’s the only one of the three with lots of potential to expand. The BART connection has made it much easier to get to San Francisco and elsewhere. Terminal 2 is looking nice, now if only Terminal 1 could get another good remodel...
I flew out of Oakland last month from Terminal 1 after a long absence and Terminal 1 still looked the same, old and dated. OAK has a long way to go to match up with SFO and SJC.
intotheair wrote:dfwjim1 wrote:intotheair wrote:
I still think OAK’s best days are ahead of itself. It’s the only one of the three with lots of potential to expand. The BART connection has made it much easier to get to San Francisco and elsewhere. Terminal 2 is looking nice, now if only Terminal 1 could get another good remodel...
I flew out of Oakland last month from Terminal 1 after a long absence and Terminal 1 still looked the same, old and dated. OAK has a long way to go to match up with SFO and SJC.
It definitely got a remodel about ten years ago or so with upgraded floors, new concessions, and better signage. They also removed some of the ceiling panels for a mod, exposed look. I went through OAK again for the first time in two years or so (just moved back to the Bay Area) and I noticed they put all the ceiling panels back in but painted them white. I found it amusing to see what’s old is new again. It now looks a lot more like how it did in the 80s again.
Also, some Southwest flights now use Terminal 1 - is that a new thing, or was I just not paying attention before? My flight left out of there and it caught me off guard.
intotheair wrote:AirFiero wrote:OAKSpotter wrote:UA is considering to return service to OAK. Although the date has not been announced as of yet coming from an official. OAK is slowly recovering of the routes lost from the 2008 crash.
ATL is now year-round on DL and DFW is back on AA. WN is adding LIH, HLI, and HTO in the near future. Moxy Airways is interested in adding service to OAK. It's just a matter a time when we'll see a Terminal 3 expansion project get off the ground. The OAK marketing team is working hard in adding more air-service as possible. We won't see a project happening at least in the coming next five years.
Why would UA want to build up OAK (or SJC for that matter) when they have a massive hub at SFO?
There are strategic advantages to being in all three airports. It would certainly give Bay Area flyers more reason to stay loyal to United, and it would make it harder for Alaska or anyone else to try to build up more at OAK or SJC.
I used to be an elite and flew United 95% of the time from either SFO or OAK. I preferred OAK as it was closer and easier, but I’d still do SFO if it were cheaper or if the schedule was better. Then United left OAK, and I grudgingly went to SFO until I started to question my loyalty to what was then an awful airline. I gave Southwest a shot for the first time, and I realized that it was quite nice being able to fly from Oakland again.
I am far from being a high value Bay Area flyer (though I’m also no budget traveler), but clearly the new United thinks that there’s a competitive upside to having a decent presence at Oakland and San Jose in addition to the powerhouse hub at SFO. Scott Kirby was very clear in his Chronicle interview that United is coming back to Oakland - it’s only a matter of time.
Back on the subeject of JetBlue, I always wished for them to build up a bigger presence on the west coast. I’m willing to bet though that they probably would have also shrunk SFO had VX ended up with them instead.
AirFiero wrote:
I can see the value of having a presence at all 3 area airports, but I doubt we’d see OAK or SJC get anything more than a few extra flights to the UA hubs and focus cities.
New question, how many total gates does OAK have now, and is there any expansion imminent?
TTraider95 wrote:Now a days, they are down to three flights a day to JFK and LGB and seasonally BOS.
intotheair wrote:AirFiero wrote:
I can see the value of having a presence at all 3 area airports, but I doubt we’d see OAK or SJC get anything more than a few extra flights to the UA hubs and focus cities.
New question, how many total gates does OAK have now, and is there any expansion imminent?
Oh absolutely. In that interview, Kirby said that SJC will obviously only see flights to the hubs. I would imagine it would be the same for OAK. I would guess they’ll resume OAK-DEN and maybe ORD or IAH, if that. OAK-DEN was 2x 319 when it was last flown if I recall. With our luck, they’ll probably bring it back on RJs. I still can’t believe UA puts CRJ-200s on BUR-DEN.
https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/I ... 729013.php
AirFiero wrote:Is UA completely out of OAK now?
wedgetail737 wrote:
The claim I heard (although I don't know how true it was) was that WN didn't have enough gates in T2 for -800 ops. So they ended up with 2 gates at T1 for those ops. However, I've seen more -700's at those gates than -800's. WN is slowly taking over OAK, kind of leaving less room for any other airline to come in.
Georgetown wrote:I flew OAK-IAD regularly from about 2002-2010, then went completely to United. I’ve gotta say I really miss that service. Weird to think it’s completely gone. Really wish B6 would put mint from Bay Area to WAS. United needs more competition.
jplatts wrote:Georgetown wrote:I flew OAK-IAD regularly from about 2002-2010, then went completely to United. I’ve gotta say I really miss that service. Weird to think it’s completely gone. Really wish B6 would put mint from Bay Area to WAS. United needs more competition.
While WN already serves BWI nonstop from both OAK and SJC, WN could add nonstop service to IAD from both OAK and SJC in order to better compete against AS in the San Francisco Bay Area. IAD is also almost 60 miles from BWI on the opposite side of the DC area.
AirFiero wrote:jplatts wrote:Georgetown wrote:I flew OAK-IAD regularly from about 2002-2010, then went completely to United. I’ve gotta say I really miss that service. Weird to think it’s completely gone. Really wish B6 would put mint from Bay Area to WAS. United needs more competition.
While WN already serves BWI nonstop from both OAK and SJC, WN could add nonstop service to IAD from both OAK and SJC in order to better compete against AS in the San Francisco Bay Area. IAD is also almost 60 miles from BWI on the opposite side of the DC area.
Does AS fly IAD-west Coast (or at least California)?
ytib wrote:AirFiero wrote:Is UA completely out of OAK now?
Yes, they left in 2012. Leaving WN the only airline on the DEN-OAK market which I fly frequently. There is no need to go to SFO when your destination is Bay Farm Island in Alameda.
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2012/ ... d-airport/
F9LASDEN wrote:AirFiero wrote:jplatts wrote:
While WN already serves BWI nonstop from both OAK and SJC, WN could add nonstop service to IAD from both OAK and SJC in order to better compete against AS in the San Francisco Bay Area. IAD is also almost 60 miles from BWI on the opposite side of the DC area.
Does AS fly IAD-west Coast (or at least California)?
Yes, they serve LAX, SFO, and SEA
AirFiero wrote:LAX and SFO leftover from VX, or did they start post-merger? I would assume SEA was AS origin?
caflyboy wrote:Didn't they fly AUS-OAK also? I seem to rememberAUS had 6 cities at one point: LGB/OAK for the west coast. BOS/JFK for the NE and MCO/FLL for Florida.