RobertS975
Topic Author
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Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:22 pm

I often follow the Delta baseball team charter flights for the Boston Red Sox. Those flights are almost always tagged as DL 8884. Now the Red Sox charters use several airports that are not usual DL stations. This may make a shorter bus ride for the team to get to their hotel, but it necessitates a short repositioning flight to get the aircraft to a DL station where it can again be used in revenue service. Specifically, the team charter lands at PIE when playing the Tampa Rays instead of TPA. It lands at BFI instead of SEA. In Kansas City, they use KCI instead of MCI. In each instance, an extra 15-20 minutes on a bus means that the extra cost of dispatching the aircraft for what is often a 15 minute flight to the nearby DL airport station. And of course, when the team charter leaves those venues, the chartered B757 needs to hop from the nearby DL location to PIE, BFI and KCI. This must be far more expensive to the team than the extra few minutes on a bus.
 
FlyHossD
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:29 pm

So what's your question?

I flew several baseball charters over the years (other charters, too) and they were often to airports we didn't normally serve. In that case, we were usually ground handled by an airline that did have operations there or an FBO (Signature at KCI, for example).
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
jbmitt
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:30 pm

Most of the DL charters are on the dedicated charter 757s with premium seating that don’t operate normal passenger flights. Sometimes they stay at the airport for the duration of the series, but most often they position to operate another segment or to one of the hub cities.

This is all built into the cost of the charters. When they operated these charters with 319s/320s/738s there were more positioning flights to operate live passenger flights.
 
RobertS975
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:31 pm

jbmitt wrote:
Most of the DL charters are on the dedicated charter 757s with premium seating that don’t operate normal passenger flights. Sometimes they stay at the airport for the duration of the series, but most often they position to operate another segment or to one of the hub cities.

This is all built into the cost of the charters. When they operated these charters with 319s/320s/738s there were more positioning flights to operate live passenger flights.


Not true. They are almost always line aircraft. You can trace the aircraft prior to arriving for a pick up at MCI or BFI and they are usually regular flight numbers to SEA or MCI or TPA in the case of the examples that I have given.
 
RobertS975
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:34 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
So what's your question?

I flew several baseball charters over the years (other charters, too) and they were often to airports we didn't normally serve. In that case, we were usually ground handled by an airline that did have operations there or an FBO (Signature at KCI, for example).


My basic question was how much extra cost to operate into a non-station airport given the extra takeoff and landing vs a few extra minutes on the bus to get to the regular station field with standard dispatch, mechanics etc.
 
jbmitt
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:10 pm

RobertS975 wrote:
jbmitt wrote:
Most of the DL charters are on the dedicated charter 757s with premium seating that don’t operate normal passenger flights. Sometimes they stay at the airport for the duration of the series, but most often they position to operate another segment or to one of the hub cities.

This is all built into the cost of the charters. When they operated these charters with 319s/320s/738s there were more positioning flights to operate live passenger flights.


Not true. They are almost always line aircraft. You can trace the aircraft prior to arriving for a pick up at MCI or BFI and they are usually regular flight numbers to SEA or MCI or TPA in the case of the examples that I have given.


OK. Let's try this. I believe that below are the 11 aircraft that compose the 75C fleet. Right now, many of these aircraft are handling NBA teams. They do cover MLB flights. For example, Cincinnati has a MLB team and no NBA team. Therefore, it's pretty easy to figure out when the Reds or one of their opponents use them via CVG. Here is the typical flight number for the Reds. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL8885

We can see that 6 of their last 9 flights have been on 757s and they mostly match up with the 75C fleet. They have used A321s which would be standard passenger aircraft that may or may not position in via live segments.

Let's look at the activity of the 75C fleet.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N649DL
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N650DL flew PHL-CPS-MSP on 4/17
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N651DL flew LAX-BFI-LAX on 4/17
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N652DL flew OKC-MKC-BFI-PDX on 4/11 & 4/12
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N654DL
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N655DL flew MKE-CPS-IAD on 4/17
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N661DN
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N662DN
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N663DN flew EWR-PIE-MIA on 4/17 & 4/18
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N664DN
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N666DN

You've asserted that DL uses secondary airports for teams and positions aircraft in from the primary airport to operate those charters. I've shown you using flight tracking of the 75C fleet that this is incorrect because there are flights to/from CPS without using STL, flights to/from BFI not using SEA, flights to/from MKC not using MCI, and flights to/from PIE not using TPA.

Perhaps if a line aircraft is being used, it will position from a hub. Typically, not from a spoke as either a scheduled inbound/outbound flight would not be operated.
 
deebee278
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:16 pm

[quote=My basic question was how much extra cost to operate into a non-station airport given the extra takeoff and landing vs a few extra minutes on the bus to get to the regular station field with standard dispatch, mechanics etc.[/quote]

I would expect that the ferry flight cost etc, is factored into the price quoted to the customer. The customer feels that it's worth the extra cost and pays the bill. With the sports team being a regular customer, they probably get an attractive price.
 
STLflyer
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:00 pm

RobertS975 wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
So what's your question?

I flew several baseball charters over the years (other charters, too) and they were often to airports we didn't normally serve. In that case, we were usually ground handled by an airline that did have operations there or an FBO (Signature at KCI, for example).


My basic question was how much extra cost to operate into a non-station airport given the extra takeoff and landing vs a few extra minutes on the bus to get to the regular station field with standard dispatch, mechanics etc.


But how often are you seeing the aircraft actually reposition to the nearby commercial airport for a revenue flight?

Delta flies the Cardinals on a 757 into and out of CPS (a general aviation airport just across the river from Busch Stadium in Illinois). Not once have I ever seen that aircraft reposition to STL for a revenue flight, nor have I ever seen an aircraft from STL reposition to CPS to take the team somewhere. Typically after dropping the Cardinals off, it will fly somewhere else to pick up another team, or return to ATL or another Delta hub. Delta hardly even flies the 757 into STL for commercial service, they do have a handful of flights to ATL on it, but that aircraft operates ATL-STL-ATL so they would never need the Cardinals' charter from CPS.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:09 pm

STLflyer wrote:
RobertS975 wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
So what's your question?

I flew several baseball charters over the years (other charters, too) and they were often to airports we didn't normally serve. In that case, we were usually ground handled by an airline that did have operations there or an FBO (Signature at KCI, for example).


My basic question was how much extra cost to operate into a non-station airport given the extra takeoff and landing vs a few extra minutes on the bus to get to the regular station field with standard dispatch, mechanics etc.


But how often are you seeing the aircraft actually reposition to the nearby commercial airport for a revenue flight?

Delta flies the Cardinals on a 757 into and out of CPS (a general aviation airport just across the river from Busch Stadium in Illinois). Not once have I ever seen that aircraft reposition to STL for a revenue flight, nor have I ever seen an aircraft from STL reposition to CPS to take the team somewhere. Typically after dropping the Cardinals off, it will fly somewhere else to pick up another team, or return to ATL or another Delta hub. Delta hardly even flies the 757 into STL for commercial service, they do have a handful of flights to ATL on it, but that aircraft operates ATL-STL-ATL so they would never need the Cardinals' charter from CPS.


I think part of the confusion is that there are sometimes repositions that are not actually for a “normal” flight. You’ll sometimes see the DL 757s position MDW-ORD. It’s usually for a team playing the Cubs and is because MDW is more convenient to downtown hotels and ORD is more convenient to Wrigley. This happens a lot in Green Bay (usually ATW-GRB) and Boston (BED-BOS or vice versa) too.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
COSPN
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:52 am

Green Bay is a special situation.. Teams stay in ATW to sleep in a quiet hotel .. something not possibly in Greenbay ..then fly out of GRB to go home
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:06 am

RobertS975 wrote:
I often follow the Delta baseball team charter flights for the Boston Red Sox. Those flights are almost always tagged as DL 8884. Now the Red Sox charters use several airports that are not usual DL stations. This may make a shorter bus ride for the team to get to their hotel, but it necessitates a short repositioning flight to get the aircraft to a DL station where it can again be used in revenue service. Specifically, the team charter lands at PIE when playing the Tampa Rays instead of TPA. It lands at BFI instead of SEA. In Kansas City, they use KCI instead of MCI. In each instance, an extra 15-20 minutes on a bus means that the extra cost of dispatching the aircraft for what is often a 15 minute flight to the nearby DL airport station. And of course, when the team charter leaves those venues, the chartered B757 needs to hop from the nearby DL location to PIE, BFI and KCI. This must be far more expensive to the team than the extra few minutes on a bus.


Are you referring to Kansas City's Wheeler Airport (MKC)? "KCI" is what locals refer to MCI/Kansas City International Airport (which, incidentally, gets it's IATA code from it's original name, Mid-Continent International Airport).
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
RobertS975
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:53 pm

Yes, the airport on the river. Sorry for getting the code wrong.
 
RobertS975
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:59 pm

One other interesting note... at least when it comes to Red Sox charters, there is a single group of FAs from which the cabin crew is selected. This is to assure familiarity with the individual players and staff as well as to assure proper decorum. I once sat next to a Boston based FA flying to SEA to crew a Sox team charter down to Anaheim the next day. They deadhead out to where they need to be on a positive space basis.
 
e38
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:50 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (thread starter), "This must be far more expensive to the team than the extra few minutes on a bus."

Robert, having flown many sports charters, this is just my personal observation . . .

When it comes to what is most convenient and easiest for the team owners, coaches, and players, cost is no object.

As an example, if a baseball team is scheduled to play a game at Busch stadium in St. Louis, and it would be a shorter bus ride to the stadium or the hotel for the aircraft to land at CPS instead of STL, then the team will pay the airline whatever the cost is to land at the airport that is most convenient to the team, even if part of the charter contract requires a repositioning leg or two.

Yes, as an aviator, it would seem to make much more sense for the aircraft to land at an "on-line" airport where there may be maintenance, a standing fuel contract, personnel support, catering, etc, but to a sports team, it's all about what's most CONVENIENT for the team, regardless of the cost.

If you consider how much most professional sports teams pay their coaches and players, the additional charge of having a charter airplane land at an "off-station" airport then reposition to an "on-line" station, the cost is almost negligible to the team.

At the company where I work, when an aircraft is dispatched on a sports charter, the company assigns a "charter coordinator" and a mechanic who stay with the aircraft for the duration of the charter (even though the pilots and flight attendants may change periodically during the course of the charter).

e38
 
STLflyer
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:02 pm

e38 wrote:
Quoting RobertS975 (thread starter), "This must be far more expensive to the team than the extra few minutes on a bus."

Robert, having flown many sports charters, this is just my personal observation . . .

When it comes to what is most convenient and easiest for the team owners, coaches, and players, cost is no object.

As an example, if a baseball team is scheduled to play a game at Busch stadium in St. Louis, and it would be a shorter bus ride to the stadium or the hotel for the aircraft to land at CPS instead of STL, then the team will pay the airline whatever the cost is to land at the airport that is most convenient to the team, even if part of the charter contract requires a repositioning leg or two.

Yes, as an aviator, it would seem to make much more sense for the aircraft to land at an "on-line" airport where there may be maintenance, a standing fuel contract, personnel support, catering, etc, but to a sports team, it's all about what's most CONVENIENT for the team, regardless of the cost.

If you consider how much most professional sports teams pay their coaches and players, the additional charge of having a charter airplane land at an "off-station" airport then reposition to an "on-line" station, the cost is almost negligible to the team.

At the company where I work, when an aircraft is dispatched on a sports charter, the company assigns a "charter coordinator" and a mechanic who stay with the aircraft for the duration of the charter (even though the pilots and flight attendants may change periodically during the course of the charter).

e38


Funny you bring up the CPS example, because, according to Google Maps, STL-Busch Stadium is 17 minutes, CPS-Busch is 10 minutes. I can't imagine the 7 minutes makes much of a difference. Traffic can also be a bit more unpredictable going across the river because it seems like the Poplar Street Bridge is either always bumper to bumper during the day, or has lanes closed for construction during the night. Just from living here my entire life, I believe drive times from STL-downtown are much more predictable. I also think most visiting teams use STL. And the Blues fly out of STL - Enterprise Center is just a couple blocks down the street from Busch so driving distances are about the same.

I'd love to know the reasoning for choosing CPS when time really isn't a factor. Is it possible CPS gives Delta a discount on fees, which are passed down to the team? STL doesn't need the revenue generated in fees from a Cardinals charter flight so they're not inclined to give discounts, but for CPS, which hardly ever sees large jets, whatever they can get out of Delta is probably a good chunk of change for them.
 
Canuck600
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:22 pm

Not sure why it's such a difficult concept to grasp, in any sort of charter the chartering party gets what they want as long as they are willing to pay the bills & it's legal to do what they want.
 
midexjet
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:36 pm

Even if they do serve an online station, they often are handled at the FBO, and not necessarily by their staff on the FBO Ramp. For example most of the MLB and NBA charters ( predominantly United and Delta) to Milwaukee with park at Signature and be worked there. Both United and Delta have Mainline Stations in Milwaukee.... NOW, I have seen the Cardinals go to the main terminal, use the Jetway and board their buses right at the gate, but IIRC, the aircraft then went back into revenue service at Milwaukee and did not ferry out. the buses and the equipment truck were escorted to and from the gate by the MKSO, but I have only seen that once.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:42 pm

STLflyer wrote:
e38 wrote:
Quoting RobertS975 (thread starter), "This must be far more expensive to the team than the extra few minutes on a bus."

Robert, having flown many sports charters, this is just my personal observation . . .

When it comes to what is most convenient and easiest for the team owners, coaches, and players, cost is no object.

As an example, if a baseball team is scheduled to play a game at Busch stadium in St. Louis, and it would be a shorter bus ride to the stadium or the hotel for the aircraft to land at CPS instead of STL, then the team will pay the airline whatever the cost is to land at the airport that is most convenient to the team, even if part of the charter contract requires a repositioning leg or two.

Yes, as an aviator, it would seem to make much more sense for the aircraft to land at an "on-line" airport where there may be maintenance, a standing fuel contract, personnel support, catering, etc, but to a sports team, it's all about what's most CONVENIENT for the team, regardless of the cost.

If you consider how much most professional sports teams pay their coaches and players, the additional charge of having a charter airplane land at an "off-station" airport then reposition to an "on-line" station, the cost is almost negligible to the team.

At the company where I work, when an aircraft is dispatched on a sports charter, the company assigns a "charter coordinator" and a mechanic who stay with the aircraft for the duration of the charter (even though the pilots and flight attendants may change periodically during the course of the charter).

e38


Funny you bring up the CPS example, because, according to Google Maps, STL-Busch Stadium is 17 minutes, CPS-Busch is 10 minutes. I can't imagine the 7 minutes makes much of a difference. Traffic can also be a bit more unpredictable going across the river because it seems like the Poplar Street Bridge is either always bumper to bumper during the day, or has lanes closed for construction during the night. Just from living here my entire life, I believe drive times from STL-downtown are much more predictable. I also think most visiting teams use STL. And the Blues fly out of STL - Enterprise Center is just a couple blocks down the street from Busch so driving distances are about the same.

I'd love to know the reasoning for choosing CPS when time really isn't a factor. Is it possible CPS gives Delta a discount on fees, which are passed down to the team? STL doesn't need the revenue generated in fees from a Cardinals charter flight so they're not inclined to give discounts, but for CPS, which hardly ever sees large jets, whatever they can get out of Delta is probably a good chunk of change for them.


On game days, it’s much easier to get on 40 than to get on 70 from Busch. I imagine that’s part of the thought process. For a variety of reasons - not least of which is the more than 50 percent smaller fan capacity - Blues traffic isn’t as bad.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
e38
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:57 pm

Quoting Canuck600 (Reply # 16), "Not sure why it's such a difficult concept to grasp . . ."

Canuck600, my thoughts exactly!

e38
 
filejw
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:38 pm

e38 wrote:
Quoting Canuck600 (Reply # 16), "Not sure why it's such a difficult concept to grasp . . ."

Canuck600, my thoughts exactly!

e38

How about this.... They are paying hundred of millions for players they don't care what a 13 minute ferry flight cost !!!!!
 
RobertS975
Topic Author
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:30 pm

So as I write this, the Red Sox are playing the Rays in St. Petersburg. DL 8884 has just repositioned from TPA to PIE to be in position to ferry the Sox back to BOS. The B757 was the MSP to TPA regular flight 2096. Every other day, DL 2096 operates from MSP with an A320. The repositioning flight lasted 16 minutes from takeoff to gate arrival. Even more surprising, DL 8884 then repositions back down to TP A leaving BOS at 1045 PM this evening. Presumably empty except for some lucky non-revs.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:35 am

Cubsrule wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
e38 wrote:
Quoting RobertS975 (thread starter), "This must be far more expensive to the team than the extra few minutes on a bus."

Robert, having flown many sports charters, this is just my personal observation . . .

When it comes to what is most convenient and easiest for the team owners, coaches, and players, cost is no object.

As an example, if a baseball team is scheduled to play a game at Busch stadium in St. Louis, and it would be a shorter bus ride to the stadium or the hotel for the aircraft to land at CPS instead of STL, then the team will pay the airline whatever the cost is to land at the airport that is most convenient to the team, even if part of the charter contract requires a repositioning leg or two.

Yes, as an aviator, it would seem to make much more sense for the aircraft to land at an "on-line" airport where there may be maintenance, a standing fuel contract, personnel support, catering, etc, but to a sports team, it's all about what's most CONVENIENT for the team, regardless of the cost.

If you consider how much most professional sports teams pay their coaches and players, the additional charge of having a charter airplane land at an "off-station" airport then reposition to an "on-line" station, the cost is almost negligible to the team.

At the company where I work, when an aircraft is dispatched on a sports charter, the company assigns a "charter coordinator" and a mechanic who stay with the aircraft for the duration of the charter (even though the pilots and flight attendants may change periodically during the course of the charter).

e38


Funny you bring up the CPS example, because, according to Google Maps, STL-Busch Stadium is 17 minutes, CPS-Busch is 10 minutes. I can't imagine the 7 minutes makes much of a difference. Traffic can also be a bit more unpredictable going across the river because it seems like the Poplar Street Bridge is either always bumper to bumper during the day, or has lanes closed for construction during the night. Just from living here my entire life, I believe drive times from STL-downtown are much more predictable. I also think most visiting teams use STL. And the Blues fly out of STL - Enterprise Center is just a couple blocks down the street from Busch so driving distances are about the same.

I'd love to know the reasoning for choosing CPS when time really isn't a factor. Is it possible CPS gives Delta a discount on fees, which are passed down to the team? STL doesn't need the revenue generated in fees from a Cardinals charter flight so they're not inclined to give discounts, but for CPS, which hardly ever sees large jets, whatever they can get out of Delta is probably a good chunk of change for them.


On game days, it’s much easier to get on 40 than to get on 70 from Busch. I imagine that’s part of the thought process. For a variety of reasons - not least of which is the more than 50 percent smaller fan capacity - Blues traffic isn’t as bad.


I would imagine it is easier to deal with logistics at CPS. Smaller airfield, no commercial flights, etc. The Jets flew into CPS when they played the Blues. I haven't taken the time to see if different airline charters seem to use one over the other. I think the Blues fly Swift, Cards, as mentioned, Delta, Jets flew Air Canada. Brewers flew UA to STL. Mets flew Delta to CPS. So there are 2 DL both to CPS. I'll have to keep an eye on others.
 
ytib
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:51 am

The last few days this is what United has done for the White Sox. As the team wants to be close to their destination a little more money in some instances would be cheaper than going to a different airport. Remember time also costs money, and the distance from their ballpark in Chicago to MDW is much shorter than taking buses all the way to ORD. Getting into the next city 30-60 minutes earlier, especially on many nights well into the early morning hours can make a difference over 162 games.

Wednesday 4/17 - N412UA
ORD-MDW: Reposition
MDW-PTK: Pick up team and fly them to closest airport to their hotel in Detroit
PTK-ORD: Reposition

Sunday 4/21 - N444UA
ORD-DTW: Reposition
DTW-BWI: Next series in Baltimore
BWI-ORD: Reposition

As mentioned above there are some instances where they may add an extra segment to reposition an aircraft with revenue passengers but for the most part the flights for repositioning are empty.
Airbus:318,319,320,321,332,333,388
Boeing:707,717,732,733,734,73Q,735,73G,738,7M8,739,752,753,742,74L,744,762,763,772,77L,77W,789
Misc:142,CN1,CR2,CR7,DC8,DH2,DH8,D8Q,D10,D95,EM2,ER3,ER4,E70,100,J31,M11,M83,M88,M90,SF3

Where is Neil
 
jumpseat67
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:18 am

From the UA side as I dispatch the above mentioned, I concur with everything above. The cost of repo/ferry is built into the team's price. The team is paying for the convenience as that is what they want and need over the course of 162 games. At a quick glance most teams are probably doing 35-40 trips per season when counting departing, continuing on to the next series, then returning home. Another airport used not mentioned is BKL in Cleveland.

Some examples also...the Cubs recently being in ATL. Aircraft ferried in IAD-ATL, then took them up to MKE. One may think it would just repo back to ORD? It ferried MKE-IAD to get back where it started to be in position for the next day at IAD.

Same thing with the White Sox. Repo/ferry flight ORD-MDW, team flies to LGA and aircraft goes LGA back to ORD.
 
STLflyer
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:09 am

ytib wrote:
The last few days this is what United has done for the White Sox. As the team wants to be close to their destination a little more money in some instances would be cheaper than going to a different airport. Remember time also costs money, and the distance from their ballpark in Chicago to MDW is much shorter than taking buses all the way to ORD. Getting into the next city 30-60 minutes earlier, especially on many nights well into the early morning hours can make a difference over 162 games.

Wednesday 4/17 - N412UA
ORD-MDW: Reposition
MDW-PTK: Pick up team and fly them to closest airport to their hotel in Detroit
PTK-ORD: Reposition

Sunday 4/21 - N444UA
ORD-DTW: Reposition
DTW-BWI: Next series in Baltimore
BWI-ORD: Reposition

As mentioned above there are some instances where they may add an extra segment to reposition an aircraft with revenue passengers but for the most part the flights for repositioning are empty.


Where in the world are the Sox staying in Detroit? PTK is nowhere near the ballpark. DTW is a hell of a lot closer.
 
jumpseat67
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:10 am

Where in the world are the Sox staying in Detroit? PTK is nowhere near the ballpark. DTW is a hell of a lot closer.


Birmingham, MI
 
STLflyer
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:39 am

jumpseat67 wrote:
Where in the world are the Sox staying in Detroit? PTK is nowhere near the ballpark. DTW is a hell of a lot closer.


Birmingham, MI

But why. Wouldn't they want to be closer to Comerica Park?
 
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XLA2008
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Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:55 am

I think you’ll find that ALL costs incurred to the airline will be charged in the price of the charter. DL isn’t going to subsidize the repositioning of aircraft and crew, that cost will be included in the total cost of the charter. It isn’t down to Delta to decide to fly them closer the people/company that charter the aircraft will tell DL where they want to be flown into.

If in this instance the sports team wants to land closer to the hotel at a quieter airport for probably multiple reasons - less press, easier and quicker to board/disembark, quicker to get to the final destination... there are multiple reasons, then the airline will oblige as that is what they are in the business to do, and they will charge accordingly for all costs incurred to them.
“For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.“
 
ytib
Posts: 503
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:22 am

Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:00 am

STLflyer wrote:
jumpseat67 wrote:
Where in the world are the Sox staying in Detroit? PTK is nowhere near the ballpark. DTW is a hell of a lot closer.


Birmingham, MI

But why. Wouldn't they want to be closer to Comerica Park?


They have been staying at this hotel in Birmingham, MI for quite some time.

Another example is just about every MLB team which plays the Oakland A's stays in San Francisco and then either takes one of the few team buses to the ballpark or hires a private car. Staying at the Parc 55 once I shared an elevator with Pudge Rodriquez as he headed off to the ballpark around 8am one morning for an afternoon game.
Airbus:318,319,320,321,332,333,388
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Where is Neil
 
jettaknight
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:43 pm

Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:16 pm

midexjet wrote:
I have seen the Cardinals go to the main terminal, use the Jetway and board their buses right at the gate, but IIRC, the aircraft then went back into revenue service at Milwaukee and did not ferry out. the buses and the equipment truck were escorted to and from the gate by the MKSO, but I have only seen that once.


Assuming they didn't pass through TSA when boarding, are any special precautions required when disembarking at the gate? I realize you said they boarded their buses and were immediately escorted off the airport. Plus, we're talking about a professional sports team, so any security risks would be incredibly small. However, I'm thinking in terms of charters in general. As far as I know, if a tour operator charters a flight, its passengers/customers pass through TSA first. What is the determining factor which makes a sports team (or any other entity) exempt from screening?
 
drdisque
Posts: 1117
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:50 pm

RobertS975 wrote:
So as I write this, the Red Sox are playing the Rays in St. Petersburg. DL 8884 has just repositioned from TPA to PIE to be in position to ferry the Sox back to BOS. The B757 was the MSP to TPA regular flight 2096. Every other day, DL 2096 operates from MSP with an A320. The repositioning flight lasted 16 minutes from takeoff to gate arrival. Even more surprising, DL 8884 then repositions back down to TP A leaving BOS at 1045 PM this evening. Presumably empty except for some lucky non-revs.


No lucky nonrevs. 8884 isn't a live segment and thus no non-revs allowed.
 
STLflyer
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:08 am

Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:09 pm

jettaknight wrote:
midexjet wrote:
I have seen the Cardinals go to the main terminal, use the Jetway and board their buses right at the gate, but IIRC, the aircraft then went back into revenue service at Milwaukee and did not ferry out. the buses and the equipment truck were escorted to and from the gate by the MKSO, but I have only seen that once.


Assuming they didn't pass through TSA when boarding, are any special precautions required when disembarking at the gate? I realize you said they boarded their buses and were immediately escorted off the airport. Plus, we're talking about a professional sports team, so any security risks would be incredibly small. However, I'm thinking in terms of charters in general. As far as I know, if a tour operator charters a flight, its passengers/customers pass through TSA first. What is the determining factor which makes a sports team (or any other entity) exempt from screening?


I have heard that players are typically screened by TSA or a contracted agency at the stadium before boarding the buses to the airport. After screening they're kept in a sterile area as if they were at an airport.

Seems extremely stupid, but that's the TSA for you.
 
AirStallion747
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:19 pm

Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:11 pm

jettaknight wrote:
midexjet wrote:

Assuming they didn't pass through TSA when boarding, are any special precautions required when disembarking at the gate? I realize you said they boarded their buses and were immediately escorted off the airport. Plus, we're talking about a professional sports team, so any security risks would be incredibly small. However, I'm thinking in terms of charters in general. As far as I know, if a tour operator charters a flight, its passengers/customers pass through TSA first. What is the determining factor which makes a sports team (or any other entity) exempt from screening?


A few years ago, I worked for a freight handling company at SEA. We got a contract to help with NFL charters. For the Minnesota Vikings, we did wand and bag searches at a secure area at the stadium, and then they rode with security in their bus non-stop to the airport. For the Oakland Raiders, they bussed directly onto the field at SEA. They were on a Hawaiian 767 chartered for the flight back to Oakland. We screened them on the tarmac plane-side, then they walked up to the stairs to the plane. The plane was parked at a gate at the terminal, but no players, coaches or staff used the terminal. We had to screen them to TSA standards (hold the jokes please).

As a side note, I have to say that the NFL players were super kind, very patient and really nice to work with. Obviously the threat profile was pretty low, but they did whatever we asked if the wands beeped.
 
87GROUNDED
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:09 am

Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:16 pm

In Denver I've seen NBA, NFL, NHL, and MLB as well as NCAA team charters use DEN and BJC. The other evening I watched the Washington Nationals DL 752 land and taxi to Signature rather than A Concourse. I've seen DL and AS charters land at BJC because the team requested it. The Broncos charter always parks at Signature at DEN even though it is a hub for UA. Whatever the team wants the team gets. Money is no issue for these guys.
On your deathbed you'll receive total consiousness- so I've got that going for me.
 
87GROUNDED
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:09 am

Re: Question About Baseball Charter Repostioning Flights

Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:20 pm

jettaknight wrote:
midexjet wrote:
I have seen the Cardinals go to the main terminal, use the Jetway and board their buses right at the gate, but IIRC, the aircraft then went back into revenue service at Milwaukee and did not ferry out. the buses and the equipment truck were escorted to and from the gate by the MKSO, but I have only seen that once.


Assuming they didn't pass through TSA when boarding, are any special precautions required when disembarking at the gate? I realize you said they boarded their buses and were immediately escorted off the airport. Plus, we're talking about a professional sports team, so any security risks would be incredibly small. However, I'm thinking in terms of charters in general. As far as I know, if a tour operator charters a flight, its passengers/customers pass through TSA first. What is the determining factor which makes a sports team (or any other entity) exempt from screening?


TSA sets up screening at the facility, whether it's a stadium or team HQ's. Everyone receives the same screening and then boards busses for the trip to the airport and for the most part it's a sterile environment.
On your deathbed you'll receive total consiousness- so I've got that going for me.

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