caliboy93
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JetBlue at Orange County

Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:10 pm

I noticed that JetBlue flies from nearly every airport in the LA area with the notable exception of SNA.
 
kunta67
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:23 pm

I don’t think a 320 could make it across the country with that runway length. Also would they run into curfew problems?
 
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LAXintl
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:25 pm

....and need slots at SNA.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
wedgetail737
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:55 pm

I don't think B6 found it necessary to fly to SNA when they were hubbing it at LGB down the road.
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:59 am

they are waiting for A220s so they can fly JFK-SNA.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:07 am

The 320 cannot takeoff on those runways for anywhere they would want to go. JFK, BOS, FLL, MCO all way too far for a 320 on thsoe short runways. Slots are not even the issue.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:22 am

Everyone talks about the steep takeoffs at SNA, I'd like to experience it some day. One of my airline pilot friends told me that it's really not that steep but rather Orange County residents have their nose so high up in the air that it just feels that way. :smile:
 
wedgetail737
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:28 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Everyone talks about the steep takeoffs at SNA, I'd like to experience it some day. One of my airline pilot friends told me that it's really not that steep but rather Orange County residents have their nose so high up in the air that it just feels that way. :smile:


They also have to cut the power after the climb until they are well off-shore.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:27 am

Everyone talks about the steep takeoffs at SNA, I'd like to experience it some day. One of my airline pilot friends told me that it's really not that steep but rather Orange County residents have their nose so high up in the air that it just feels that way. :smile:




Yeah, not fun. I'm sure it isn't as dangerous as some have made it out to be, but I've been on planes out of SNA where people screamed when the power dropped and they were tossed forwards in their seats. Its really just odd and strange compared to a normal takeoff from a passenger's perspective. Having the cabin go from roarin' engines to nearly silent is definitely strange! I'd be interested to learn what pilots actually think about it.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:44 am

Aptivaboy wrote:
Everyone talks about the steep takeoffs at SNA, I'd like to experience it some day. One of my airline pilot friends told me that it's really not that steep but rather Orange County residents have their nose so high up in the air that it just feels that way. :smile:




Yeah, not fun. I'm sure it isn't as dangerous as some have made it out to be, but I've been on planes out of SNA where people screamed when the power dropped and they were tossed forwards in their seats. Its really just odd and strange compared to a normal takeoff from a passenger's perspective. Having the cabin go from roarin' engines to nearly silent is definitely strange! I'd be interested to learn what pilots actually think about it.


It's been that way for many years! The first couple of times I experience this on an AirCal DC-9 Super 80 and on an AirCal 733.
 
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treebeard787
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:57 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Everyone talks about the steep takeoffs at SNA, I'd like to experience it some day. One of my airline pilot friends told me that it's really not that steep but rather Orange County residents have their nose so high up in the air that it just feels that way. :smile:


I've flown out of SNA many times, and the take-off does feel steeper than at most airports. I also found the 757 provided the most exciting take-offs from there.
Allons-y!
 
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compensateme
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:04 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Everyone talks about the steep takeoffs at SNA, I'd like to experience it some day. One of my airline pilot friends told me that it's really not that steep but rather Orange County residents have their nose so high up in the air that it just feels that way. :smile:


Newport Beach is the most vocal, and understandably so. Newport Beach was the original playground for Los Angeles' super rich, although as the region (and traffic) grew, it became an enclave of its own. The flight path out of John Wayne cuts directly over the heart of Newport Beach... many years ago, I worked at the Newport Center* and the flow of jets - even with current noise abatement procedures - was noticeable. A couple articles in the OC Register lately about how Newport Beach residents want to do something about the noise...

*When I worked at the Newport Center, in the building I was employed in Kobe Bryant (a longtime NB resident) had an entire floor to himself, with nothing but (Nike? I can't remember) shoes stored in it. Ocean view office space for his shoes, what a classy guy!
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
B737Captain1980
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:01 am

I started training at SNA in 1999 in small cessna's. After getting hired at Skywest I flew the EMB120 LAX-SNA then SNA-SLC/SFO/DEN etc in the CRJ200/700/900. The SNA departure isn't really that big of a deal anymore for two reasons. 1. Most residents that fly out of SNA are accustomed to it. 2. The noise abatement procedure was implemented at a time when turbojets were the norm. LOUD turbojet engines. Nowadays, the majority of operations in and out of SNA are B737NG's/MAX's, EMB-175's, A320's that are far quieter than the old gulfstreams/B727's/MD-80s etc that were the norm when the noise abatement procedures were a big deal. Congressman Rhoardbacher was a big advocate and supporter of the noise abatement since his house was directly under the departure path. During one of his last speeches before his failed re-election at a friends house, he told the crowd he sent a letter to the CEO of B6, requesting they change the wing design of the A320 to reduce its noise footprint departing SNA. I couldn't decide which to laugh at, the fact that B6 didn't even fly into SNA, or his preposterous idea the CEO of B6 could simply change the design of an A320 wing.

Heck one of my cessna's set off a noise sensor a couple years ago departing thru the back bay. With the implementation of ADS-B, the FAA will know exactly who is flying at all times.
 
AirFiero
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:34 am

I just flew past the old El Toro airport today on my way to San Diego. I thought, what a shame they couldn’t (or wouldn’t) relocate SNA there. It would have solved a lot of problems.
 
caliboy93
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:43 am

I wonder what it would be like for an A380 from an overseas destination.
 
LAXBUR
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:16 am

Aptivaboy wrote:
Everyone talks about the steep takeoffs at SNA, I'd like to experience it some day. One of my airline pilot friends told me that it's really not that steep but rather Orange County residents have their nose so high up in the air that it just feels that way. :smile:




Yeah, not fun. I'm sure it isn't as dangerous as some have made it out to be, but I've been on planes out of SNA where people screamed when the power dropped and they were tossed forwards in their seats. Its really just odd and strange compared to a normal takeoff from a passenger's perspective. Having the cabin go from roarin' engines to nearly silent is definitely strange! I'd be interested to learn what pilots actually think about it.


There would be lots of social media posts about “screaming” and being “thrown forward” if it happened often. I’ve flown out of SNA countless times over the last 15 years, also did weight and balance when I worked there...never heard that dramatic of reactions.
 
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compensateme
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:48 am

AirFiero wrote:
I just flew past the old El Toro airport today on my way to San Diego. I thought, what a shame they couldn’t (or wouldn’t) relocate SNA there. It would have solved a lot of problems.


What problems would it have solved? It would’ve created more problems; at best, it would it have pushed the noise further south. And Southern California’s biggest problem is lack of housing. Not only is El Toro providing prime housing, Irvine Company was reluctant to develop the property surrounding El Toro until it was satisfied there would be no airport. When it’s finally built out, El Toro and the surrounding property will provide housing for well over 100,000 people.
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BreezyIAH
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:08 am

It’s the feeling when you’re about to just fall out of the air right after you take off that gets so many people. The a.m. rush hour is entertaining to watch too...who can get in first and everyone using the small runway and even across the way to the ATC tower to try and get in line
 
rbavfan
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:23 am

compensateme wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
I just flew past the old El Toro airport today on my way to San Diego. I thought, what a shame they couldn’t (or wouldn’t) relocate SNA there. It would have solved a lot of problems.


What problems would it have solved? It would’ve created more problems; at best, it would it have pushed the noise further south. And Southern California’s biggest problem is lack of housing. Not only is El Toro providing prime housing, Irvine Company was reluctant to develop the property surrounding El Toro until it was satisfied there would be no airport. When it’s finally built out, El Toro and the surrounding property will provide housing for well over 100,000 people.


Yeah 100000 overpriced houses as opposed to some affordable housing. It would have made a great airport.
 
snasteve
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:40 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Everyone talks about the steep takeoffs at SNA, I'd like to experience it some day. One of my airline pilot friends told me that it's really not that steep but rather Orange County residents have their nose so high up in the air that it just feels that way. :smile:


You might be disappointed nowadays. It was fun during the the 80s and 90s as jets were a bit louder, was very much the slingshot takeoff to get up high and then reduce thrust and coast. The newest planes don’t reduce power as much or for as long as they’re already quite overhead.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:39 pm

B6 doesn't fly out of SNA because it has long focused on LGB, up the freeway. Further, B6's transcontinental route system to secondary airports linking the US East Coast hubs has been focused on late afternoon/early evening departures from the East Coast and a redeye back. The redeye would not work from SNA and the A320 would not be the right plane for that type of runway operation and noise abatement restrictions, as stated above.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:46 pm

snasteve wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Everyone talks about the steep takeoffs at SNA, I'd like to experience it some day. One of my airline pilot friends told me that it's really not that steep but rather Orange County residents have their nose so high up in the air that it just feels that way. :smile:


You might be disappointed nowadays. It was fun during the the 80s and 90s as jets were a bit louder, was very much the slingshot takeoff to get up high and then reduce thrust and coast. The newest planes don’t reduce power as much or for as long as they’re already quite overhead.


Indeed. On aircraft like the 738 it feels more or less like a normal post-takeoff rollback of thrust. It’s not very exciting at all.
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CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:23 pm

Did they not put themselves on the wait list for slots a couple years ago, and then when new slots were released they refused them or dropped out of the running or some such.

I'm positive they will put themselves in for the 3 slot give away once they get 220s and start some service to jfk/bos/fll
 
nine4nine
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:36 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
snasteve wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Everyone talks about the steep takeoffs at SNA, I'd like to experience it some day. One of my airline pilot friends told me that it's really not that steep but rather Orange County residents have their nose so high up in the air that it just feels that way. :smile:


You might be disappointed nowadays. It was fun during the the 80s and 90s as jets were a bit louder, was very much the slingshot takeoff to get up high and then reduce thrust and coast. The newest planes don’t reduce power as much or for as long as they’re already quite overhead.


Indeed. On aircraft like the 738 it feels more or less like a normal post-takeoff rollback of thrust. It’s not very exciting at all.




I read somewhere here locally I believe the 738 was granted a normal climb out profile due to it not creating much noise and triggering the sensors around the city after take off on a low thrust mild climb over the back bay of Newport , but oddly the 73G is not exempt. All other models especially the 752 still follow the abatement procedures of steep climb and power back.
717 727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 742 748 752 753 762 763 772 773 DC9 MD80/88/90 DC10 319 320 321 332 333 CS100 CRJ200 Q400 E175 E190 ERJ145 EMB120
 
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n901wa
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:37 pm

I still crack up when people complain about El Toro would have brought in more noise. I remember F-4S, RF-4B and A-4s and A-6s in the pattern and no way a Airliner was as loud as a J79 in Burner or a J52 at power. The F/A-18s were a little better. Would have been a Great SNA replacement. Long Runways, and not boxed in, could have built a new ground up airport.
Sorry, back on subject, I wonder if the CS100/300 might work for them out of SNA
 
DarthLobster
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:13 pm

compensateme wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
I just flew past the old El Toro airport today on my way to San Diego. I thought, what a shame they couldn’t (or wouldn’t) relocate SNA there. It would have solved a lot of problems.


What problems would it have solved? It would’ve created more problems; at best, it would it have pushed the noise further south. And Southern California’s biggest problem is lack of housing. Not only is El Toro providing prime housing, Irvine Company was reluctant to develop the property surrounding El Toro until it was satisfied there would be no airport. When it’s finally built out, El Toro and the surrounding property will provide housing for well over 100,000 people.


100K is a drop in the bucket for a region like SoCal. They really could have used another airport more. Instead now we have everyone and their dog hubbing at LAX with no relief in sight.
 
AirFiero
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:42 pm

compensateme wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
I just flew past the old El Toro airport today on my way to San Diego. I thought, what a shame they couldn’t (or wouldn’t) relocate SNA there. It would have solved a lot of problems.


What problems would it have solved? It would’ve created more problems; at best, it would it have pushed the noise further south. And Southern California’s biggest problem is lack of housing. Not only is El Toro providing prime housing, Irvine Company was reluctant to develop the property surrounding El Toro until it was satisfied there would be no airport. When it’s finally built out, El Toro and the surrounding property will provide housing for well over 100,000 people.


It would have solved the runway length problem, the tight space of SNA, and the planning department could have not zoned new housing in the flight paths. It looked to me like most of the neighborhoods around there were fairly new.

Old SNA could have been sold off for housing as well. If high density housing, that would make up for at least some of those (critical?) 100,000 people you seem concerned about.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:59 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
Did they not put themselves on the wait list for slots a couple years ago, and then when new slots were released they refused them or dropped out of the running or some such.

I'm positive they will put themselves in for the 3 slot give away once they get 220s and start some service to jfk/bos/fll


B6 did apply for SNA slots with the intention of adding SFO-SNA service in tandem with acquiring VX. Of course AS ended up getting VX, and they went on to add SFO-SNA service after doing so. It's pretty crazy that WN ended up dropping all SFO-SNA service thereafter....
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
many321
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:19 pm

DarthLobster wrote:
compensateme wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
I just flew past the old El Toro airport today on my way to San Diego. I thought, what a shame they couldn’t (or wouldn’t) relocate SNA there. It would have solved a lot of problems.


What problems would it have solved? It would’ve created more problems; at best, it would it have pushed the noise further south. And Southern California’s biggest problem is lack of housing. Not only is El Toro providing prime housing, Irvine Company was reluctant to develop the property surrounding El Toro until it was satisfied there would be no airport. When it’s finally built out, El Toro and the surrounding property will provide housing for well over 100,000 people.


100K is a drop in the bucket for a region like SoCal. They really could have used another airport more. Instead now we have everyone and their dog hubbing at LAX with no relief in sight.


I agree. Perhaps a few of the Asian carries would have moved there instead of setting up at LAX or ONT.
 
MrBretz
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:27 pm

El Toro is long gone. It was a move by the ultra rich in Newport Beach to move their noise problem to another part of the county. They lost. BTW, the MC jets made noise. You would have some noisy maneuvers and afterburners on situations. But the the frequency was on the order of once a week for a few minutes, not 150 times a day each and everyday of the year.

I have friends who live on super expensive Balboa Island. Personally, I enjoy visiting, sitting on their patio and watching 737s and A320s going over their multimillion dollar house 150 times a day at a few thousand feet. I am only there for a few hours at a time a couple times per year. The owner tells me it is her alarm clock to get up for work. The first flight is at 7AM.
 
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compensateme
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:50 pm

AirFiero wrote:
compensateme wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
I just flew past the old El Toro airport today on my way to San Diego. I thought, what a shame they couldn’t (or wouldn’t) relocate SNA there. It would have solved a lot of problems.


What problems would it have solved? It would’ve created more problems; at best, it would it have pushed the noise further south. And Southern California’s biggest problem is lack of housing. Not only is El Toro providing prime housing, Irvine Company was reluctant to develop the property surrounding El Toro until it was satisfied there would be no airport. When it’s finally built out, El Toro and the surrounding property will provide housing for well over 100,000 people.


It would have solved the runway length problem, the tight space of SNA, and the planning department could have not zoned new housing in the flight paths. It looked to me like most of the neighborhoods around there were fairly new.

Old SNA could have been sold off for housing as well. If high density housing, that would make up for at least some of those (critical?) 100,000 people you seem concerned about.


Housing is the largest problem in Southern California, not air service. There’s a perfectly acceptable airport at ONT — roughly the same distance (or less) from all but a few communities in the OC — that can be built out to serve the needs of the community for decades to come.

Moving SNA would’ve simply moved the problem further south to a larger, but less affluent, population center. And ultimately, the thousands of homes they built/are building are far more essential to the community.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:52 pm

MrBretz wrote:
El Toro is long gone. It was a move by the ultra rich in Newport Beach to move their noise problem to another part of the county. They lost. BTW, the MC jets made noise. You would have some noisy maneuvers and afterburners on situations. But the the frequency was on the order of once a week for a few minutes, not 150 times a day each and everyday of the year.

I have friends who live on super expensive Balboa Island. Personally, I enjoy visiting, sitting on their patio and watching 737s and A320s going over their multimillion dollar house 150 times a day at a few thousand feet. I am only there for a few hours at a time a couple times per year. The owner tells me it is her alarm clock to get up for work. The first flight is at 7AM.


In the early 1990's, MCAS El Toro flights weren't just a few per week. They had a pretty hefty operation with the F/A-18's. There used to be an Amtrak Station at the end of one of the runways. I watched F/A-18's land there constantly...kind of like the MCAS version of NAS Miramar at the time.
 
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compensateme
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:07 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
El Toro is long gone. It was a move by the ultra rich in Newport Beach to move their noise problem to another part of the county. They lost. BTW, the MC jets made noise. You would have some noisy maneuvers and afterburners on situations. But the the frequency was on the order of once a week for a few minutes, not 150 times a day each and everyday of the year.

I have friends who live on super expensive Balboa Island. Personally, I enjoy visiting, sitting on their patio and watching 737s and A320s going over their multimillion dollar house 150 times a day at a few thousand feet. I am only there for a few hours at a time a couple times per year. The owner tells me it is her alarm clock to get up for work. The first flight is at 7AM.


In the early 1990's, MCAS El Toro flights weren't just a few per week. They had a pretty hefty operation with the F/A-18's. There used to be an Amtrak Station at the end of one of the runways. I watched F/A-18's land there constantly...kind of like the MCAS version of NAS Miramar at the time.


The Amtrak station in still there. An amphitheater was built on the edge of the former runway, replacing the nearby amphitheater Irvine Company bulldozed.

You can park in the garage serving Amtrak/Metrolink for free, as long as you’d like, and take a direct bus to John Wayne (limited departures) for $1...
Last edited by compensateme on Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rlwynn
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:10 pm

AirFiero wrote:
It would have solved the runway length problem, the tight space of SNA, and the planning department could have not zoned new housing in the flight paths. It looked to me like most of the neighborhoods around there were fairly new.



That is not really the case and the new houses are not the reason for the strict Sound rules. From the end of the runway there is first the Santa ana Heights neighborhood. Then the golf course and all of those Apartments and housing tracts accross the street. Then Comes Back Bay. then come the neighborhoods around 17th street. Then comes Newport Harbor. Then comes Balboa.

All of that was there before jets. That is why they won. And it was rich people except for the Costa Mesa side of the street.
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Aptivaboy
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:39 pm

There would be lots of social media posts about “screaming” and being “thrown forward” if it happened often. I’ve flown out of SNA countless times over the last 15 years, also did weight and balance when I worked there...never heard that dramatic of reactions.


All I know is that its happened on at least two flights outta SNA that I've been on. Not the whole plane, of course, but say 5-10 pax who didn't know what was going on.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:00 pm

compensateme wrote:

Housing is the largest problem in Southern California, not air service. There’s a perfectly acceptable airport at ONT — roughly the same distance (or less) from all but a few communities in the OC — that can be built out to serve the needs of the community for decades to come.

Moving SNA would’ve simply moved the problem further south to a larger, but less affluent, population center. And ultimately, the thousands of homes they built/are building are far more essential to the community.


All the more reason not to build more housing then. Why should more people be encouraged to live in a crowded semi-desert that is fast running out of water in the years to come?
 
MrBretz
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:00 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
There would be lots of social media posts about “screaming” and being “thrown forward” if it happened often. I’ve flown out of SNA countless times over the last 15 years, also did weight and balance when I worked there...never heard that dramatic of reactions.


All I know is that its happened on at least two flights outta SNA that I've been on. Not the whole plane, of course, but say 5-10 pax who didn't know what was going on.


I can't resist. I have to retell an old tale. I worked with a guy who generally flew out of LAX since he lived in North Orange Co. I lived in South OC. I generally flew out of SNA. Once we took a trip together on business. It was his first ever out of SNA. He was a private pilot. He had no idea of the noise abatement takeoff at SNA. He was reading something as the pilot revved up the jets with the brakes on at the start of the runway. I noticed he was starting to pay attention. As we headed down the runway, he focused back on reading. Then we lifted off. We were climbing more steeply than a normal takeoff. He looked more apprehensive and was looking out the window. Then the pilot cut back on the throttle and the plane sunk. He said in a loud voice what the h...l is happening. And that's from a private pilot. It was a 757 BTW. I think they have adjusted the takeoff to be a little more normal in the last few years or I have grown completely use to it.
 
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compensateme
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:22 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
compensateme wrote:

Housing is the largest problem in Southern California, not air service. There’s a perfectly acceptable airport at ONT — roughly the same distance (or less) from all but a few communities in the OC — that can be built out to serve the needs of the community for decades to come.

Moving SNA would’ve simply moved the problem further south to a larger, but less affluent, population center. And ultimately, the thousands of homes they built/are building are far more essential to the community.


All the more reason not to build more housing then. Why should more people be encouraged to live in a crowded semi-desert that is fast running out of water in the years to come?


Because they already lived here. People overwhelmingly wanted housing, not an airport.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
AirFiero
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:35 pm

rlwynn wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
It would have solved the runway length problem, the tight space of SNA, and the planning department could have not zoned new housing in the flight paths. It looked to me like most of the neighborhoods around there were fairly new.



That is not really the case and the new houses are not the reason for the strict Sound rules. From the end of the runway there is first the Santa ana Heights neighborhood. Then the golf course and all of those Apartments and housing tracts accross the street. Then Comes Back Bay. then come the neighborhoods around 17th street. Then comes Newport Harbor. Then comes Balboa.

All of that was there before jets. That is why they won. And it was rich people except for the Costa Mesa side of the street.


So the rich people of El Toro (Area) beat out the rich people of Newport Beach?
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1323
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Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:37 pm

compensateme wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
compensateme wrote:

What problems would it have solved? It would’ve created more problems; at best, it would it have pushed the noise further south. And Southern California’s biggest problem is lack of housing. Not only is El Toro providing prime housing, Irvine Company was reluctant to develop the property surrounding El Toro until it was satisfied there would be no airport. When it’s finally built out, El Toro and the surrounding property will provide housing for well over 100,000 people.


It would have solved the runway length problem, the tight space of SNA, and the planning department could have not zoned new housing in the flight paths. It looked to me like most of the neighborhoods around there were fairly new.

Old SNA could have been sold off for housing as well. If high density housing, that would make up for at least some of those (critical?) 100,000 people you seem concerned about.


Housing is the largest problem in Southern California, not air service. There’s a perfectly acceptable airport at ONT — roughly the same distance (or less) from all but a few communities in the OC — that can be built out to serve the needs of the community for decades to come.

Moving SNA would’ve simply moved the problem further south to a larger, but less affluent, population center. And ultimately, the thousands of homes they built/are building are far more essential to the community.


A perfectly acceptable airport that is reportedly a ghost town. If OC folks wanted to go to ONT, why isn’t it booming?
 
DTWLAX
Posts: 916
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:19 pm

Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:49 pm

Guys please keep the thread on track. This is about B6 service to SNA and not about SNA's location and Newport Beach residents and the noise abatement associated with SNA and OC.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 5431
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:54 pm

Just curious

Im a 15 year airline pilot

What is a “steep” takeoff?

We always rotate to the same angle and climb out up to acceleration altitude at more or less the same angle

At acceleration altitude we either accelerate to 250 or the assigned climb speed from ATC or the SID (SID would include NA procedures)

I could assure you that as a passenger in the cabin, you wouldnt notice much difference if I was climbing at 250, 230, or 200 kts.

And, in modern jets, once above acceleration altitude, you are climbing at some sort of “climb” (or reduced) setting

So, what are we all talking about in SNA in 2019?

As for B6 and SNA, they publicly stated they are on the wait list for slots. I assume, they will find a place and aircraft to fly to if they get assigned a slot.
 
snasteve
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:58 am

Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:06 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
compensateme wrote:

Housing is the largest problem in Southern California, not air service. There’s a perfectly acceptable airport at ONT — roughly the same distance (or less) from all but a few communities in the OC — that can be built out to serve the needs of the community for decades to come.

Moving SNA would’ve simply moved the problem further south to a larger, but less affluent, population center. And ultimately, the thousands of homes they built/are building are far more essential to the community.


All the more reason not to build more housing then. Why should more people be encouraged to live in a crowded semi-desert that is fast running out of water in the years to come?


They’re not gonna run out of water. The Pacific is right there if they need to desalinate. When they start recycling 100% waste into drinking water, that’s when you know they’re desperate. Although I believe part of orange county already does this. They clean the waste water and then injected into the ground supply.
 
AirCalSNA
Posts: 397
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:35 pm

Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:27 pm

It would be great if B6 started flying SFO-SNA ... the market has been ceded to United alone (in terms of mainline operations).
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4989
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:29 pm

I would be surprised if B6 started flying to SNA in the future.
 
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compensateme
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:51 pm

AirFiero wrote:
compensateme wrote:
AirFiero wrote:

It would have solved the runway length problem, the tight space of SNA, and the planning department could have not zoned new housing in the flight paths. It looked to me like most of the neighborhoods around there were fairly new.

Old SNA could have been sold off for housing as well. If high density housing, that would make up for at least some of those (critical?) 100,000 people you seem concerned about.


Housing is the largest problem in Southern California, not air service. There’s a perfectly acceptable airport at ONT — roughly the same distance (or less) from all but a few communities in the OC — that can be built out to serve the needs of the community for decades to come.

Moving SNA would’ve simply moved the problem further south to a larger, but less affluent, population center. And ultimately, the thousands of homes they built/are building are far more essential to the community.


A perfectly acceptable airport that is reportedly a ghost town. If OC folks wanted to go to ONT, why isn’t it booming?


Because LAX, SNA and (for those in South County), SAN are sufficient status quo. The assertion was the region needs more airport capacity, and I’m merely pointing out the capacity already exists (at ONT). What the area needs is housing.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
MrBretz
Posts: 385
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:57 pm

snasteve is correct. Parts of Orange Co. process waste water, making it as clean as drinking water, and then pump it underground into the existing aquifer. And some communities have a separate line to use recycled water, not to the extent of the water that is pumped underground, for yard watering. There are many variables.
 
B737Captain1980
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:14 pm

Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:31 pm

AirFiero wrote:
I just flew past the old El Toro airport today on my way to San Diego. I thought, what a shame they couldn’t (or wouldn’t) relocate SNA there. It would have solved a lot of problems.


I remember when the county hired UPS/Fedex/ and 1 US Legacy to fly into El Toro before they wore up the runways. It was so weird to see those planes there because as a kid growing up in the 90’s, F18’s would conduct traffic pattern work right over my head while attending elemtary school.

After I saw fedex/ups and I think it was United fly in there, I thought for sure they were giving it serious thought. Then I realized the Irvine City Council was bought out by The Five Points Corporation to vote against the airport and vote for a “Great Park” to rival Central Park in NYC. Decades later, it’s 90% developed land for homes and 2 giant soccer fields. What a shame that was, but of course we all knew that was going to happen and did nothing because Americans are lazy and just don’t care what their politicians are doing.
 
B737Captain1980
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:14 pm

Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:41 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
Guys please keep the thread on track. This is about B6 service to SNA and not about SNA's location and Newport Beach residents and the noise abatement associated with SNA and OC.

Whenever I see posts like this images of a farmer keep his heard of goat on the trail flash thru my head lol
 
B737Captain1980
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:14 pm

Re: JetBlue at Orange County

Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:44 pm

MrBretz wrote:
snasteve is correct. Parts of Orange Co. process waste water, making it as clean as drinking water, and then pump it underground into the existing aquifer. And some communities have a separate line to use recycled water, not to the extent of the water that is pumped underground, for yard watering. There are many variables.


Yup. I live next to the water filtration plant in Irvine next to SNA. Everywhere you walk in Irvine you see water sprinkles with signs next to them that say do not drink water or reclaimed water

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