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Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:03 pm

Workers at a 787 Dreamliner plant in South Carolina have complained of defective manufacturing, debris left on planes and pressure to not report violations.

NORTH CHARLESTON, S.C. — When Boeing broke ground on its new factory near Charleston in 2009, the plant was trumpeted as a state-of-the-art manufacturing hub, building one of the most advanced aircraft in the world. But in the decade since, the factory, which makes the 787 Dreamliner, has been plagued by shoddy production and weak oversight that have threatened to compromise safety.

A New York Times review of hundreds of pages of internal emails, corporate documents and federal records, as well as interviews with more than a dozen current and former employees, reveals a culture that often valued production speed over quality. Facing long manufacturing delays, Boeing pushed its work force to quickly turn out Dreamliners, at times ignoring issues raised by employees.

Complaints about the frenzied pace echo broader concerns about the company in the wake of two deadly crashes involving another jet, the 737 Max. Boeing is now facing questions about whether the race to get the Max done, and catch up to its rival Airbus, led it to miss safety risks in the design, like an anti-stall system that played a role in both crashes.

Safety lapses at the North Charleston plant have drawn the scrutiny of airlines and regulators. Qatar Airways stopped accepting planes from the factory after manufacturing mishaps damaged jets and delayed deliveries. Workers have filed nearly a dozen whistle-blower claims and safety complaints with federal regulators, describing issues like defective manufacturing, debris left on planes and pressure to not report violations. Others have sued Boeing, saying they were retaliated against for flagging manufacturing mistakes.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/busi ... e=Homepage
 
MrBretz
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:08 pm

I just read the article. It is unsettling to say the least. There is a link in the article asking anyone knowing of safety violations to confidentiality report them to The NY Times.
 
910A
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:12 pm

I saw the article also..So we now have the 787 issues which have been ongoing , the Max issues, the AF Tanker issues, perhaps Boeing needs to shake up top management and re-evualute their procedures, goals, standards etc.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:13 pm

MrBretz wrote:
I just read the article. It is unsettling to say the least. There is a link in the article asking anyone knowing of safety violations to confidentiality report them to The NY Times.


Unsettling, but is there evidence that the issues are different from the Washington plants or any Airbus FAL? There’s some level of these concerning behaviors at virtually any large factory across industries.
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MrBretz
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:15 pm

Valid point, cubsrule. I am happy someone is watching.
 
sxf24
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:27 pm

I think it is telling that only employees who were fired are sources and that the concerns investigated by the FAA haven’t been validated. Perhaps Boeing is firing people to cover up problems or perhaps there are bitter ex-employees with an axe to grind.

I know there are many airlines that prefer to take deliveries out of CHS. The customer is ultimately the best judge of quality.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:28 pm

MrBretz wrote:
Valid point, cubsrule. I am happy someone is watching.


Definitely, but it’s important to remember that Boeing is sort of the flavor of the week right now. If a couple of NEOs had crashed, we might be seeing the same article about Mobile.
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bcbhokie
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:32 pm

The article does read as a bit of a pro-union alarmist propaganda piece, unfortunately, which undermines its credibility. Notably, it repeatedly cites foreign objects left in aircraft as a systematic problem in Charleston, while glossing over in one sentence that this is apparently also a problem in Everett:

“The issue has cost Boeing at other plants. In March, the Air Force halted deliveries of the KC-46 tanker, built in Everett, Wash., after finding a wrench, bolts and trash inside new planes.”

The issues described are serious, but I’d bet serious money they aren’t isolated to Charleston.
 
Dupli
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:32 pm

sxf24 wrote:
I think it is telling that only employees who were fired are sources.


I thought some sources were retired ex employees, not fired.
 
many321
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:35 pm

Just read the article. WHOA! That's all I have to say. Though, found hilarious of Akbar Al Baker telling them they're f'ing up with his planes.
Last edited by many321 on Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
many321
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:38 pm

Dupli wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
I think it is telling that only employees who were fired are sources.


I thought some sources were retired ex employees, not fired.


You're right. Some of them are retired.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:42 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Definitely, but it’s important to remember that Boeing is sort of the flavor of the week right now. If a couple of NEOs had crashed, we might be seeing the same article about Mobile.

Except a couple of NEOs did NOT crash so the extra scrutiny is 100% warranted.
 
sxf24
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:43 pm

Dupli wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
I think it is telling that only employees who were fired are sources.


I thought some sources were retired ex employees, not fired.


You are correct, there was a retired employee who filed a whistleblower complaint that does not appear to have been substantiated.

The article is short on perspective from he constituents that really matter: the FAA, customers and their CAAs.

Very demanding customers like SQ, EY, and BA are taking planes from CHS.
 
sxf24
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:46 pm

airbazar wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Definitely, but it’s important to remember that Boeing is sort of the flavor of the week right now. If a couple of NEOs had crashed, we might be seeing the same article about Mobile.

Except a couple of NEOs did NOT crash so the extra scrutiny is 100% warranted.


There needs to be scrutiny of critical systematic issues, regardless of whether there is a loss of life. Almost every plane has had an issue that could have resulted in loss of life if not corrected. Most are addressed before a fatal crash, in no small part by the pilots operation the aircraft.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:05 pm

airbazar wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Definitely, but it’s important to remember that Boeing is sort of the flavor of the week right now. If a couple of NEOs had crashed, we might be seeing the same article about Mobile.

Except a couple of NEOs did NOT crash so the extra scrutiny is 100% warranted.


I’m not really quibbling about whether the scrutiny is warranted. Rather, I’m suggesting that the scrutiny results in finding things that are or may be an industry-wide problem, not necessarily anything Boeing-specific. Of course, these could be Boeing-specific problems but to date (and unlike the MAX issues) there isn’t any evidence of that.
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77H
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:18 pm

sxf24 wrote:
I think it is telling that only employees who were fired are sources and that the concerns investigated by the FAA haven’t been validated. Perhaps Boeing is firing people to cover up problems or perhaps there are bitter ex-employees with an axe to grind.

I know there are many airlines that prefer to take deliveries out of CHS. The customer is ultimately the best judge of quality.


In light of the MAX groundings and what has come to light regarding the FAA and Boeing’s relationship. “Investigated by the FAA” doesn’t hold the same weight as may once have in terms of insuring safety and compliance.

And why are we surprised separated employees, voluntarily or otherwise would be the whistleblowers? Someone no longer with the company can’t face internal reprisals. To be a whistleblower often means putting ones job on the line. I can’t imagine many would risk that in all but the most extreme situations.

I imagine most of us have worked for companies that have, at some point done something “below board”. While maybe not substantial, still not right. Can any of you say you blew the whistle in this instant while you were employed ? Or even after?

This attempt at playing catch up in certain markets with Airbus is leading down a potentially dark road. Hopefully Boeing gets back to innovating rather than following the lead and trying to stop marketshare bleed.

77H
 
Antarius
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:25 pm

910A wrote:
I saw the article also..So we now have the 787 issues which have been ongoing , the Max issues, the AF Tanker issues, perhaps Boeing needs to shake up top management and re-evualute their procedures, goals, standards etc.


What 787 issues are ongoing exactly?
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:28 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
I just read the article. It is unsettling to say the least. There is a link in the article asking anyone knowing of safety violations to confidentiality report them to The NY Times.


Unsettling, but is there evidence that the issues are different from the Washington plants or any Airbus FAL? There’s some level of these concerning behaviors at virtually any large factory across industries.


Wow, it only took 3 comments to start talking about Aibus. Have we really learnt nothing from all of this with Max? Let's not deviate and act accordingly.
This are Boeing's workers. An American prestigious Newsspaper and people very unlikely biased in favour of Airbus. Let's try to be objective please and let's talk about airbus on airbus ' posts
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:36 pm

brunoguemes wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
MrBretz wrote:
I just read the article. It is unsettling to say the least. There is a link in the article asking anyone knowing of safety violations to confidentiality report them to The NY Times.


Unsettling, but is there evidence that the issues are different from the Washington plants or any Airbus FAL? There’s some level of these concerning behaviors at virtually any large factory across industries.


Wow, it only took 3 comments to start talking about Aibus. Have we really learnt nothing from all of this with Max? Let's not deviate and act accordingly.
This are Boeing's workers. An American prestigious Newsspaper and people very unlikely biased in favour of Airbus. Let's try to be objective please and let's talk about airbus on airbus ' posts


Nothing really specific to Airbus. It’s just then when you start looking for problems you tend to find them, no matter the manufacturer or the industry. I could have just as easily said General Motors.
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jayunited
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:38 pm

What strikes me as strange about the article is this isn't a take down of Boeing or the 787 program, this is a take down of Boeing's Charleston 787 plant only. Perhaps these are credible safety concerns and I'm not saying they should be overlooked in fact they should be investigated. In addition to the safety concerns this seems to be a union take down of a nonunion plant the whole section on nonunion employees should have no baring on this issue. However current and former employees seems to suggest that the only qualified employees are union employees, and the fact that Boeing didn't send any union employees from Washington to Charleston has in some way contributed to these alleged safety concerns. The safety concerns should be taken seriously however they are being raised by current and former employees who seem to be union loyalist.
 
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WesternDC6B
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:47 pm

I’m sure if the plant were under IAM control, nothing at all would be wrong. /sarc
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par13del
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:53 pm

So none of this has anything whatsoever to do with this plant not being union and a right to work state and the unions in the north west still angry that this plant exist and all 787's are not being built in Seattle?
Do they have any issues at this plant, yes, which large plants do not, strange that even though they have pushed certification and grandfathering from the MAX unto the 777X, we don't hear much talk about preventative measures around 777X production, just the 787? Strange...
 
ual763
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:58 pm

This is 100% a union shakedown. I mean seriously, I'm an IAM member (unfortunately) and these "reports" or "concerns" are just about the stupidest thing ever. We had a member contact OSHA, to file a hazardous workplace complaint, because someone clogged the toilet after dropping a large deuce... We've also had a grievance filed because someone sprayed the door vestibule with Liquid Ass one day. Then the union wonders why noboby takes/treats them seriously anymore.
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mmo
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:01 pm

FWIW, on the military side, The B-52 was built at several locations. However, the Witchita builds tended to be better build and had fewer problems during their service life.
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phlswaflyer
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:20 pm

910A wrote:
I saw the article also..So we now have the 787 issues which have been ongoing , the Max issues, the AF Tanker issues, perhaps Boeing needs to shake up top management and re-evualute their procedures, goals, standards etc.


The MAX issue should have been the end of the CEO.
 
Trk1
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:30 pm

Boeing is a company in deep trouble. If you do not think there are problems at Charleston just ask a few airlines about what they have found and you will find the NYT article to be spot on. FAA is not what it used to be and also needs a major shake up. When you only have one company in the country making commercial aircraft this drop off is not surprising. We found the same thing as we lost auto manufactures in the US.
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:31 pm

Antarius wrote:
910A wrote:
I saw the article also..So we now have the 787 issues which have been ongoing , the Max issues, the AF Tanker issues, perhaps Boeing needs to shake up top management and re-evualute their procedures, goals, standards etc.


What 787 issues are ongoing exactly?


I would like to know this as well
 
JAAlbert
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:33 pm

If these reports are true, perhaps Boeing plants needs to stand down for a day or two to reassess and refocus on quality and safety. I recall decades ago, Boeing briefly stopped production on the 737 after foreign materials (bolts or screws I think) were found in newly constructed aircraft by most.

That being said, this is not the first time that the CHS plant has been accused of shoddy work. A few years ago Al Jazeera published an investigative report detailing allegations of shoddy work and suppression of those calling out the problems. That article was dismissed as unfounded.

These sorts of allegations are very difficult for outsiders like us to assess. (Former) workers say it happened, FAA's investigation fails to find evidence, Boeing denies it. Boeing and IAM have been battling it out in CHS for years, and these sorts of reports are not uncommon in other industries during such battles. Pretending shoddy work is not occurring would be a foolish strategy for Boeing (or any other company) and, despite claims of bias, the FAA regularly finds below par workmanship (at least with the airlines) and levies substantial fines as a result. So the accusations don't seem to make sense . . . yet, there have been verified issues with the military's KC-46 line and Boeing is cranking out a huge number of aircraft each month (at least prior to the MAX grounding), all of which supports the CHS accusations.

So we outsiders are left to parse through all this and argue amongst ourselves as to whether or not the issue exists.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:36 pm

Trk1 wrote:
Boeing is a company in deep trouble. If you do not think there are problems at Charleston just ask a few airlines about what they have found and you will find the NYT article to be spot on. FAA is not what it used to be and also needs a major shake up. When you only have one company in the country making commercial aircraft this drop off is not surprising. We found the same thing as we lost auto manufactures in the US.


Can you expand a bit on your comment on auto manufacturers? With the recent opening of Volvo in South Carolina, I believe the number of companies manufacturing here is at an all-time high.
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:10 pm

airbazar wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Definitely, but it’s important to remember that Boeing is sort of the flavor of the week right now. If a couple of NEOs had crashed, we might be seeing the same article about Mobile.

Except a couple of NEOs did NOT crash so the extra scrutiny is 100% warranted.

And yet a 787 did not crash, and we get this sensationalist click bait stuff from a media outlet that is supposed to be above such stuff...
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questions
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:10 pm

Dupli wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
I think it is telling that only employees who were fired are sources.


I thought some sources were retired ex employees, not fired.


It’s amazing how many current, active, on-the-payroll employees — at any company — will NOT say a word when they disagree with something, see something wrong, etc. With a family to feed, a mortgage to pay, healthcare coverage to keep and kids to put through college the pressure to keep their jobs is too great.

Of course there are examples of disgruntled people making up issues about their former employers. But it is also way too easy of an argument to make in an effort to simply sweep systemic issues under the rug.
 
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:12 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Trk1 wrote:
Boeing is a company in deep trouble. If you do not think there are problems at Charleston just ask a few airlines about what they have found and you will find the NYT article to be spot on. FAA is not what it used to be and also needs a major shake up. When you only have one company in the country making commercial aircraft this drop off is not surprising. We found the same thing as we lost auto manufactures in the US.


Can you expand a bit on your comment on auto manufacturers? With the recent opening of Volvo in South Carolina, I believe the number of companies manufacturing here is at an all-time high.


BMW manufactures cars in SC.
 
Noshow
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:13 pm

Planes from Everett and Charleston are built from the same parts and processes in the same factory layout and certified and tested the same way.
It's highly likely that they are not that different.
 
questions
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:17 pm

When I read The NY Times article this morning I immediately thought about the US car manufacturers in the 1970s and the sloppy manufacturing lines they had (excluding poor design and engineering). The problems were all about poor leadership and weak management.
 
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:24 pm

Noshow wrote:
Planes from Everett and Charleston are built from the same parts and processes in the same factory layout and certified and tested the same way.
It's highly likely that they are not that different.


You exclude potential variances in the quality of the labor pools that work in the manufacturing facilities.

The parts, processes, factory layout, certifications and tests may be the same... but two labor forces with different skills and experiences working under different leadership in different cultural environments can produce different outcomes.

Also the article noted similar issues with US AF aircraft coming out of Everett, WA.
 
TMccrury
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:26 pm

I seem to remember this same thing from a year or so ago. But can't find it. That said, it seems to be bad blood between the union and Boeing.
 
Noshow
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:26 pm

Also the article noted similar issues with US AF aircraft coming out of Everett, WA.

Wouldn't that point to -possible- quality control issues regardless of production location?
Last edited by Noshow on Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Noshow
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:29 pm

Boeing very much looked to Toyota (cars) for high quality production with less rework needed. They hired quite a few Toyota staff and trained after the same concept.
 
Cdydatzigs
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:52 pm

questions wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Trk1 wrote:
Boeing is a company in deep trouble. If you do not think there are problems at Charleston just ask a few airlines about what they have found and you will find the NYT article to be spot on. FAA is not what it used to be and also needs a major shake up. When you only have one company in the country making commercial aircraft this drop off is not surprising. We found the same thing as we lost auto manufactures in the US.


Can you expand a bit on your comment on auto manufacturers? With the recent opening of Volvo in South Carolina, I believe the number of companies manufacturing here is at an all-time high.


BMW manufactures cars in SC.


As does Volvo.
 
trex8
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:53 pm

Well Boeing assembly issues are bad enough for the USAF to stop taking KC46s twice for finding foreign objects in places where they shouldnt be
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:57 pm

Cdydatzigs wrote:
questions wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

Can you expand a bit on your comment on auto manufacturers? With the recent opening of Volvo in South Carolina, I believe the number of companies manufacturing here is at an all-time high.


BMW manufactures cars in SC.


As does Volvo.


My comment was an “and also” comment, not one in disagreement.
 
DenverTed
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:58 pm

In one of those 747 books, wasn't there an anecdote that some Japanese airlines only took 747s from a certain line or a certain shift do to quality differences they found within the Everett factory?
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:09 pm

sxf24 wrote:
I know there are many airlines that prefer to take deliveries out of CHS. The customer is ultimately the best judge of quality.


And Qatar used to refuse to take 787s from CHS until after they had been flown to PAE and given a "once-over" by the Quality Assurance teams there. *shrug*


Producing a commercial airliner is a complex process and both OEMs are at record production levels so not really surprised there are issues, but I don't see it as anything systemic.

Boeing so screwed up production in 1997 that they had to stop the factories to put things back together and took a huge write-down to cover it. What we're seeing now is nothing to that level.
 
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:31 pm

Stitch wrote:
Boeing so screwed up production in 1997 that they had to stop the factories to put things back together and took a huge write-down to cover it.


Which aircraft were being manufactured in 1997 that were impacted by the shutdown?
 
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:44 pm

bcbhokie wrote:
The article does read as a bit of a pro-union alarmist propaganda piece, unfortunately, which undermines its credibility. Notably, it repeatedly cites foreign objects left in aircraft as a systematic problem in Charleston, while glossing over in one sentence that this is apparently also a problem in Everett:

“The issue has cost Boeing at other plants. In March, the Air Force halted deliveries of the KC-46 tanker, built in Everett, Wash., after finding a wrench, bolts and trash inside new planes.”

The issues described are serious, but I’d bet serious money they aren’t isolated to Charleston.

questions wrote:
You exclude potential variances in the quality of the labor pools that work in the manufacturing facilities.

The parts, processes, factory layout, certifications and tests may be the same... but two labor forces with different skills and experiences working under different leadership in different cultural environments can produce different outcomes.

Also the article noted similar issues with US AF aircraft coming out of Everett, WA.

trex8 wrote:
Well Boeing assembly issues are bad enough for the USAF to stop taking KC46s twice for finding foreign objects in places where they shouldnt be
https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing- ... ies-2019-4

I think we've hit the pile-on limit on this one, no?

Seems piling on is a central theme of this thread, sigh...
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
trex8
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:45 pm

questions wrote:
Stitch wrote:
Boeing so screwed up production in 1997 that they had to stop the factories to put things back together and took a huge write-down to cover it.


Which aircraft were being manufactured in 1997 that were impacted by the shutdown?

737NG. did wonders for Boeing stock, I was still able to write off my losses on my taxes for years to offset my NG, Raytheon and LM profits!!
 
trex8
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:54 pm

Revelation wrote:
bcbhokie wrote:
The article does read as a bit of a pro-union alarmist propaganda piece, unfortunately, which undermines its credibility. Notably, it repeatedly cites foreign objects left in aircraft as a systematic problem in Charleston, while glossing over in one sentence that this is apparently also a problem in Everett:

“The issue has cost Boeing at other plants. In March, the Air Force halted deliveries of the KC-46 tanker, built in Everett, Wash., after finding a wrench, bolts and trash inside new planes.”

The issues described are serious, but I’d bet serious money they aren’t isolated to Charleston.

questions wrote:
You exclude potential variances in the quality of the labor pools that work in the manufacturing facilities.

The parts, processes, factory layout, certifications and tests may be the same... but two labor forces with different skills and experiences working under different leadership in different cultural environments can produce different outcomes.

Also the article noted similar issues with US AF aircraft coming out of Everett, WA.

trex8 wrote:
Well Boeing assembly issues are bad enough for the USAF to stop taking KC46s twice for finding foreign objects in places where they shouldnt be
https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing- ... ies-2019-4

I think we've hit the pile-on limit on this one, no?

Seems piling on is a central theme of this thread, sigh...

Seems shooting the messenger is a central theme too.
Its not just a SC problem, its a Boeing problem.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:42 pm

Stitch wrote:
Boeing so screwed up production in 1997 that they had to stop the factories to put things back together and took a huge write-down to cover it.

questions wrote:
Which aircraft were being manufactured in 1997 that were impacted by the shutdown?


It affected the entire commercial division, so the 737 (Classic and NG), 747, 757, 767 and 777.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:48 pm

trex8 wrote:
Seems shooting the messenger is a central theme too.

Some times messengers deserve to be shot.

trex8 wrote:
Its not just a SC problem, its a Boeing problem.

Given the quality of the reporting, there might not be a SC problem.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7071
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Boeing' s Trouble: Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:32 pm

JAAlbert wrote:
(Former) workers say it happened, FAA's investigation fails to find evidence, Boeing denies it. .


Not true. FAA found evidence. Fined Boeing. Just kept it under wraps.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... ne-boeing/

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