marcelh
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Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:35 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
I suspect the 777X aircraft will be much better than Boeing is indicating. The 777 certainly exceeded expectations to say the least. It buried the 747, A340, and A380. Absolutely killed those aircraft. I see no reason to underestimate the 777X. I think it will be a remarkable frame.

As spoken by another keyboard warrior. I love to see your enthousiasm about Boeing and their products, but don’t get too excited please. The 777X will sell well, but I don’t think it will be a game changer like the 77W.
 
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zeke
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Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:01 am

GearShaft5 wrote:
There are several CX pilots and Flight Attendants in the gym that I go to. Recent feedback is that 777-9x will be deployed on the CX first-tier premium routes e.g.London, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago. A350-900 and A350-1000 split between established regional and long haul "brand re-enforcement" routes opened recently like Tel Aviv, Madrid, Dublin, Barcelona, Brussels.


Considering CX have not announced internally where they will be deployed, good luck with the water cooler information. That list is just a guess, my guess is anywhere the 744 operated in the past is fair game. No reason why LHR, JFK, LAX, ORD will not see the A350 especially with seasonal variations. SFO already has the A350.
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ElroyJetson
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Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:18 pm

marcelh wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
I suspect the 777X aircraft will be much better than Boeing is indicating. The 777 certainly exceeded expectations to say the least. It buried the 747, A340, and A380. Absolutely killed those aircraft. I see no reason to underestimate the 777X. I think it will be a remarkable frame.

As spoken by another keyboard warrior. I love to see your enthousiasm about Boeing and their products, but don’t get too excited please. The 777X will sell well, but I don’t think it will be a game changer like the 77W.



As I said, the marketplace will ultimately determine the winner, and the only person who used the term "game changer" regarding the 777X is you. :D
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EChid
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Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:22 pm

x1234 wrote:
Well Boeing planes usually have better payload/range than Airbus ones. If Zeke can answer, I read here that Delta is pissed their A350-900XWB with 306 seats can't fly full payload LAX-SYD (which is shorter than HKG-IAD) due to south-bound headwinds. This is even after DL upped all their A350's to 275t. CX's A359 only hold 280 seats. Does 36 seats really matter with their luggage on a route like LAX-SYD (no polar but south-bound headwinds).

This story has been debunked multiple times in multiple other threads and involves a carrier that's not the subject of this thread. Zeke has already answered this question in all of those threads, and others close to the topic have reinforced that this story isn't true. Let's please not force it into yet another thread.
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marcelh
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Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:53 pm

ElroyJetson wrote:
marcelh wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
I suspect the 777X aircraft will be much better than Boeing is indicating. The 777 certainly exceeded expectations to say the least. It buried the 747, A340, and A380. Absolutely killed those aircraft. I see no reason to underestimate the 777X. I think it will be a remarkable frame.

As spoken by another keyboard warrior. I love to see your enthousiasm about Boeing and their products, but don’t get too excited please. The 777X will sell well, but I don’t think it will be a game changer like the 77W.



As I said, the marketplace will ultimately determine the winner, and the only person who used the term "game changer" regarding the 777X is you. :D

I didn’t, you are reading what you want to read. I used the term “game changer” regarding the 77W, not the 777X. But as an American, you are very well in making up “alternative facts” :mrgreen:
 
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ro1960
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Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:23 pm

hz747300 wrote:
Qantas94Heavy wrote:
ro1960 wrote:
Will CX’s 777X have the 9-abreast layout in coach like their current 777s?


Certainly not, they are already more than halfway through retrofitting their entire 777 fleet with 10 abreast.


Sucks too. I suppose I could lose weight though.



But you can't lose shoulder width!
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hz747300
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Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:22 am

ro1960 wrote:
hz747300 wrote:
Qantas94Heavy wrote:

Certainly not, they are already more than halfway through retrofitting their entire 777 fleet with 10 abreast.


Sucks too. I suppose I could lose weight though.



But you can't lose shoulder width!


True--if that were my problem. I can see why Airbus played Wait & See on the 787 response before putting out the A350 design as an XWB. Smart cookies.
Keep on truckin'...
 
WIederling
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Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:27 am

ro1960 wrote:
But you can't lose shoulder width!

Sure you can.
Look at Arnold! Most of the "shoulder width" is muscle.:-)))
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AirbusA6
Posts: 1623
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:53 am

Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:25 am

RJMAZ wrote:
AirbusA6 wrote:
Indeed Boeing and Airbus have been quite clever really in making sure that their wide bodies don't directly compete and thus avoiding the bloodbath if all their products were direct rivals. Yes they still compete, but most major airline groups will end up purchasing the 787, A350 and 779

I disagree.

The 787 targetted the A330 directly. The 787-8 and 787-9 match the A330-200/800 and A330-300/900 in size. Cabin areas are within 1% and weights are within a couple of percent. The 787 carries the same payload with considerably less fuel burn. It is a bloodbath for the A330. The A330NEO was not enough it should have moved away from the 787. This was hard with the A350 sitting just above, the best option would have been to go smaller with a lighter, smaller, higher aspect ratio wing centred around the A330-200 fuselage length.


The A330NEO was a cheap upgrade, new engines but little else changed, it won't be a big seller but it has its own strengths which will ensure steady if unspectacular sales

270 sales (I think) is still respectable, when compared to the sales of the various A340 derivatives for example.
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mig17
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Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:17 pm

I have tryed to make a simplstic comparaison between A35K, 778, 779 and 77W. Simplistic because I used data avaible to the general public and press on the 77X and applied a linear fuel consumption per weight principle. That gives :
A35K 778 779 77W
MTOW 316 352 352 352
OEW 155 170 181 167
max structural payload 68 73 73 71
MZFW 223 243 254 238
fuel at MZFW 93 109 98 114
max fuel 125 159 159 145
payload max fuel 36 23 12 40
payload at 125T fuel 36 57 46 60
max fuel at 60T payload 101 122 111 125
max fuel at 46T payload 115 136 125 139
max fuel at 44T payload 117 138 127 141
max fuel at 42T payload 119 140 129 143
max fuel at 40T payload 121 142 131 145
max fuel at 36T paylaod 125 146 135 149
max range at 36T paylaod 8400 8690 7953 7604
max range at 40T payload 8131 8452 7718 7400
max range at 42T payload 7997 8333 7600 7298
max range at 44T payload 7862 8214 7482 7196
max range at 46T payload 7728 8095 7364 7094
max range at 60T payload 6787 7262 6540 6379
fuel for 6208NM 60T payload 92 104 105 125
TOW 6208NM 60T payload 307 334 346 352
remaining payload 9 18 6 0

With those value, the conclusions are :
- A350-1000 can lift more and/or further than the 779 and 77W while bruning less fuel for any given payload / range.
- Only the 778 can lift more and further than the A350-1000 but it also burns more fuel for any given payload / range within the 1000 capability.

Remarks :
- because of the linear principle not compatible for extreme range. The fuel required for the 6208NM / 60T payload is overestimated and will be less than what I am saying. Further we are from the max range, bigger is the gap. So both the 778 and A35K will be even far more efficient than the 779 and 77W for that specific flight.
- since the 779 is "limited" by it's mass if no MTOW bump and is not realy able to tank all it's fuel capacity, the remaining payload would only be 12T ..., the real fuel consuption of the frame will be key to determine it's real efficiency.

Both 778 and 779 are more expensive to buy than the A35K. So you buy the 779 if you want the extra pax revenu the larger/longer cabin offers on the A35K. You buy the 778 if you really, really, really need the extra lift. By the way, that is why airbus is getting ready to put new, more efficient engines on that plane ... the 777 would not be able to follow any more.
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seabosdca
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Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Wed May 01, 2019 12:23 am

mig17 wrote:
Both 778 and 779 are more expensive to buy than the A35K. So you buy the 779 if you want the extra pax revenu the larger/longer cabin offers on the A35K. You buy the 778 if you really, really, really need the extra lift. By the way, that is why airbus is getting ready to put new, more efficient engines on that plane ... the 777 would not be able to follow any more.


We don't know which aircraft is more expensive to buy. 777X list is higher, but list means nothing.

But I agree with the general point that the reason to order the 779 is because you really need the cabin area, and the reason to order the 778 is because you really need the payload range. The operators who have chosen the two aircraft make perfect sense in that light. 779 is a darling of very premium operators who need to fit space-hogging hard product, and 778 is ignored except by the ME3, who need its capability for Oceania and some routes in the Americas.

As far as an A350 re-engine… I'm sure that's exactly what Airbus wants. I'm also sure RR won't be in a position to deliver it on quite the timetable Airbus wants. And how long it will take tells us how long the 777X will continue to sell.
 
x1234
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Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Wed May 01, 2019 1:20 am

zeke, any chance of CX starting DFW on the A359? Just the other day the AA 77W at the edge of its range had to divert to ICN because winds changed aloft and passengers didn't get to HKG until 24 hours later (unless they were rebooked on CX flights).
 
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zeke
Posts: 13837
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Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Wed May 01, 2019 1:50 am

x1234 wrote:
zeke, any chance of CX starting DFW on the A359? Just the other day the AA 77W at the edge of its range had to divert to ICN because winds changed aloft and passengers didn't get to HKG until 24 hours later (unless they were rebooked on CX flights).


From a technical standpoint there is no difficulty on the A350 going to DFW, what you are asking is a commercial question, “any chance of CX starting DFW on the A359”. Sorry I cannot comment to make a statement if this is or is not being looked at from a commercial standpoint. The airline is a business, and they make commercial decisions on which routes to operate based upon what will be best for the overall business, not what is technically feasible.
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ArchGuy1
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Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:19 pm

The 777-9X should restore the capacity of the 747-400 that was lost when the 744 was retired for routes like Hong Kong to London Heathrow and Hong Kong to Los Angeles.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:59 pm

rjmf22 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Well Boeing planes usually have better payload/range than Airbus ones. If Zeke can answer, I read here that Delta is pissed their A350-900XWB with 306 seats can't fly full payload LAX-SYD (which is shorter than HKG-IAD) due to south-bound headwinds. This is even after DL upped all their A350's to 275t. CX's A359 only hold 280 seats. Does 36 seats really matter with their luggage on a route like LAX-SYD (no polar but south-bound headwinds).


Important to note that at first, HKG-IAD was originally on an A350-1000, but is now on an A350-900.

Back to the topic, how many seats can we expect Cathay to put in their 777-9's?

HKG-IAD is on A350-1000 if you're not aware. Current in air is B-LXF operating CX866 which is almost reaching YYZ.

Michael
 
ewt340
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Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:21 am

Since A350-1000 is smaller, they could just sent those to routes that doesn't have demand for larger B777-9.

B777-9 would primarily being used in larger market with slots restrictions like LHR or NRT.
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 213
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Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:25 am

ewt340 wrote:
Since A350-1000 is smaller, they could just sent those to routes that doesn't have demand for larger B777-9.

B777-9 would primarily being used in larger market with slots restrictions like LHR or NRT.

Other airports with slot restrictions include LAX and JFK.
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1227
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:38 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
Since A350-1000 is smaller, they could just sent those to routes that doesn't have demand for larger B777-9.

B777-9 would primarily being used in larger market with slots restrictions like LHR or NRT.

Other airports with slot restrictions include LAX and JFK.

LAX doesn't have slot. Gate constraints is another story but not slots.

Michael
 
rjmf22
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 10:37 pm

Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:59 am

eamondzhang wrote:
rjmf22 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Well Boeing planes usually have better payload/range than Airbus ones. If Zeke can answer, I read here that Delta is pissed their A350-900XWB with 306 seats can't fly full payload LAX-SYD (which is shorter than HKG-IAD) due to south-bound headwinds. This is even after DL upped all their A350's to 275t. CX's A359 only hold 280 seats. Does 36 seats really matter with their luggage on a route like LAX-SYD (no polar but south-bound headwinds).


Important to note that at first, HKG-IAD was originally on an A350-1000, but is now on an A350-900.

Back to the topic, how many seats can we expect Cathay to put in their 777-9's?

HKG-IAD is on A350-1000 if you're not aware. Current in air is B-LXF operating CX866 which is almost reaching YYZ.

Michael


When I made the post, it was on an a359. Now back to a35K.
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zakuivcustom
Posts: 2699
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:03 am

eamondzhang wrote:
HKG-IAD is on A350-1000 if you're not aware. Current in air is B-LXF operating CX866 which is almost reaching YYZ.


It's seasonal - A35K in summer and A359 in winter.

They're upping the frequency to 5/wk in W19/20, though, so the route is definitely doing well.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-16apr19/
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eamondzhang
Posts: 1227
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Cathay Pacific's Airbus A350-1000s and upcoming Boeing 777-9Xs

Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:34 am

rjmf22 wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
rjmf22 wrote:

Important to note that at first, HKG-IAD was originally on an A350-1000, but is now on an A350-900.

Back to the topic, how many seats can we expect Cathay to put in their 777-9's?

HKG-IAD is on A350-1000 if you're not aware. Current in air is B-LXF operating CX866 which is almost reaching YYZ.

Michael


When I made the post, it was on an a359. Now back to a35K.

Sorry - didn't realise your post was two months ago!

But as zakuivcustom said, A35K in summer and A359 in winter - sounds like seasonal demand to me

Michael

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