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x1234
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How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:41 pm

So I'm planning a trip to SYD and found out the old 77L is still on the LAX-SYD route. I did a search and someone said here that the DL A359 even with the 275t upgrade can't fly LAX-SYD with full payload. For such a long trip I'm planning to book AA's 789 because of the lower cabin pressure (my skin gets dry easily even with creams). Why is it that the DL A350 being so new can't fly LAX-SYD with full payload. The flight is only 14 hours southbound and CX flies their A359 with a slightly lower seat-count (280 versus 306) on IAD-HKG which is 1 hour longer at 15 hours west-bound! Or is it that cargo is a big component of LAX-SYD and they can haul the passengers+bags but not cargo?
 
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ElroyJetson
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:43 pm

This topic has come up several times before. I would refer to other threads on the subject.
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x1234
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:47 pm

Also I looked up the longest flights currently on the DL A359 and they are both DTW-PVG and ATL-ICN westbound averaging 14-14.5 hours so the A359 can clearly do almost 15 hour flight with reserves:
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl583
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl27
 
aerohottie
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:16 pm

x1234 wrote:
Also I looked up the longest flights currently on the DL A359 and they are both DTW-PVG and ATL-ICN westbound averaging 14-14.5 hours so the A359 can clearly do almost 15 hour flight with reserves:
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl583
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl27

You answered your own question. DL's A359's can do LAX-SYD, with a full passenger load. But they chose to operate that aircraft elsewhere.
Some Boeing fanboys have tried to push that narrative that the A350 is lacking in performance, but this tends to get corrected by those with real knowledge, such as Zeke, pretty quickly.

To the other part of your post, I would go the DL 772LR over the AA 787-9 any day. Both operate a 9 abreast configuration, which makes a MASSIVE different on a 14 hour flight IMHO
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:22 pm

ElroyJetson wrote:
This topic has come up several times before. I would refer to other threads on the subject.

This isn’t Wikipedia, discussions can evolve. First time for me and it’s an interesting subject.

As for why Delta are still using the 77L, I guess all planes have different capabilities, and maybe they can use the A350s elsewhere. I would think Sydney is only moderate yield, a lot of Aussie backpackers and VFR on the route that are very price-sensitive. The A350s are expensive birds, so stick em on the highest-yield routes to make the books look better? Or maybe there’s better product support for the Boeing in Sydney, if it goes tech? Honestly there are soo many reasons the 77L is used on this route. None of which are because of any shortcoming on the part of the A350.
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dtwpilot225
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:24 pm

It has to do with alternate airport requirements ensuring the aircraft has enough range to fly to those
 
Cactusjuba
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:39 pm

I've heard the issue isn't the direct route itself, but the alternate airports. Work was being done to get authority to use Canberra as an alternate airport, which would help the 350. I'm not sure if this is still ongoing or completed.
 
910A
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:43 pm

x1234 wrote:
So I'm planning a trip to SYD and found out the old 77L is still on the LAX-SYD route.


You lost me when you stated the Delta 77L is old..The oldest Delta 77L just turned ten last month..
 
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:57 pm

Cactusjuba wrote:
I've heard the issue isn't the direct route itself, but the alternate airports. Work was being done to get authority to use Canberra as an alternate airport, which would help the 350. I'm not sure if this is still ongoing or completed.

Believe A350 can be easily tanked so MEL/BNE can be used - unless DL locks some fuel tank which I don't know honestly.

Michael
 
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compensateme
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:05 pm

This topic has been beaten to death, and there’s no concrete evidence to support the assertion - just guesses and alleged heresay among the community.

The 359 were ordered as direct 744 replacements. The 77L are fairly young aircraft. The reality is, DL May be satisfied with the performance of the 77L vs. taking delivery of new 359 and trying to find an alternate use of the 77L.
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NateGreat
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:05 pm

I do remember early on they said that the first route for the A350s would be LAX-SYD, or at least rumored.
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:09 pm

The 77Ls also can act as cargo monsters on the route whereas the 359s are more limited, especially true if there are alternate airport issues. If there is any airline that is good at matching the a/c to a given route, its DL. They have good reasons for the routing.
 
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:15 pm

SonomaFlyer wrote:
The 77Ls also can act as cargo monsters on the route whereas the 359s are more limited, especially true if there are alternate airport issues. If there is any airline that is good at matching the a/c to a given route, its DL. They have good reasons for the routing.

I would give that to UA based on their huge selection of aircraft with different configurations. Problem is, UA is premium heavy compared to DL.
 
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:46 pm

True and UA doesn't have the 77L but can put on the 77W if they wish. For now, they are at a 789 which is smaller than the 359 but efficient as hell.
 
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:48 pm

Cactusjuba wrote:
I've heard the issue isn't the direct route itself, but the alternate airports. Work was being done to get authority to use Canberra as an alternate airport, which would help the 350. I'm not sure if this is still ongoing or completed.


dtwpilot225 wrote:
It has to do with alternate airport requirements ensuring the aircraft has enough range to fly to those


The above is in line with what I've been told from numerous Delta employees.

x1234 wrote:
So I'm planning a trip to SYD and found out the old 77L is still on the LAX-SYD route.


It's worth pointing out that the 77L on the route is newly refurbished with Delta One Suites, Premium Economy, etc. (Source)
 
DeltaB717
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:52 pm

As others have said - the DL A350 can do LAX-SYD. I'd assumed there was a cabin configuration or capacity issue, and hadn't heard of the issue with alternates. I'm not sure about the comparison with CX - if I'm not mistaken, CX's A359s are a higher MTOW than DL's?

x1234 wrote:
the old 77L is still on the LAX-SYD route


While the airframes certainly aren't getting any younger (even then, they're by no means "old"), the cabins on the (currently only two) 777s operating the SYD route were recently completely redone and are anything but old. Indeed LAX-SYD is the only route being flown by 77Ls with the new cabin (until N707DN returns to service in the coming days).
 
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:57 pm

First of all, the 77L is not old. I believe they just got new interiors as well, so from a passenger's point of view, the 77L is just as good as the A359. I'd rather fly on the 77L than the A350 most times. However, if Delta is using the 77Ls for its better cargo capabilities, wouldn't they be better suited flying to cargo heavy airports such as HKG instead of SYD? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like more cargo would be coming from Asia rather than Australia.
 
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:58 pm

Delta ordered its A350s with 268 t MTOW, which cuts something like 550 nm off the plane's range. That turned out to be penny wise and pound foolish, so Delta upgraded to 275 t MTOW, the maximum on the first 12 aircraft (the 13th and later builds will be capable of 280 t MTOW). At 275 t the A350 can make the route with a full passenger load just fine, but the 77L still has more cargo capacity (at the cost of significant extra fuel burn).

A 77L can fly 7000+ nm at its maximum cargo capacity. That's not in the cards for any of the newer-generation craft (not even the 778, which will probably fly farther than a 77L at lighter payloads).
 
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:59 pm

DeltaB717 wrote:
As others have said - the DL A350 can do LAX-SYD. I'd assumed there was a cabin configuration or capacity issue, and hadn't heard of the issue with alternates. I'm not sure about the comparison with CX - if I'm not mistaken, CX's A359s are a higher MTOW than DL's?


The issue is that the comparison with just about any route ex-HKG isn't really apples-to-apples because there are so few suitable diversion airports in the south Pacific. Other than the polar transit, IAD-HKG flies over land and over many suitable diversion airports. Not so for LAX-SYD. Fiji-Hawaii is basically 3,000 miles of nothing.
Last edited by Cubsrule on Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:59 pm

Ok suppose that DL puts 1.7 A359's on the route.
What do you suppose should happen to the 1.7 B77L's currently operating the route?

I think that the real problem is finding a route suitable to dump the B77L's on, rather than the A359's range.

A359's would save DL quite some money on this route, but sending the B77L's to the desert while they have plenty of life left in them is going to be a huge waste money. This is how airlines should be run, management need to look at the full picture.
 
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:00 am

I think the cargo is the winner. Back in the days when all you could get on Syd-Lax was the 744, only a small amount of cargo could get carried and it often had to be left behind if the weather turned bad. With a 17 hr plus range the 77L never had this issue. The other thing is DL bought these long range jets and needs to deploy them somewhere. The product is perfectly good, plus theres a good sky team lounge in Sydney and good connections at both ends. Doesn't seem like such a bad deal to me. As of this month, the new Delta One and Premium economy will be on the SYD-LAX route as well as refreshed economy... you're pretty much getting the same thing as the A350. It's very competitive. When AA took the 77W off the route that was definitely a downgrade and it looks a lot better than UA's premium product not yet updated. The only thing really challenging it is the QF A380s and they're not all refurbished yet.
 
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:02 am

Cactusjuba wrote:
I've heard the issue isn't the direct route itself, but the alternate airports. Work was being done to get authority to use Canberra as an alternate airport, which would help the 350. I'm not sure if this is still ongoing or completed.


Canberra has been approved as an alternate now.
 
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:14 am

seabosdca wrote:
Delta ordered its A350s with 268 t MTOW, which cuts something like 550 nm off the plane's range. That turned out to be penny wise and pound foolish, so Delta upgraded to 275 t MTOW, the maximum on the first 12 aircraft (the 13th and later builds will be capable of 280 t MTOW). At 275 t the A350 can make the route with a full passenger load just fine, but the 77L still has more cargo capacity (at the cost of significant extra fuel burn).

A 77L can fly 7000+ nm at its maximum cargo capacity. That's not in the cards for any of the newer-generation craft (not even the 778, which will probably fly farther than a 77L at lighter payloads).

Interesting. Thank you. It does imply later high MTOW aircraft would be quite suitable.

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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:45 am

The 777LR is young and is a better suited to the task. Why do some people make a big deal of wanting the A350 on LAX-SYD?
 
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:10 am

x1234 wrote:
So I'm planning a trip to SYD and found out the old 77L is still on the LAX-SYD route. I did a search and someone said here that the DL A359 even with the 275t upgrade can't fly LAX-SYD with full payload. For such a long trip I'm planning to book AA's 789 because of the lower cabin pressure (my skin gets dry easily even with creams). Why is it that the DL A350 being so new can't fly LAX-SYD with full payload. The flight is only 14 hours southbound and CX flies their A359 with a slightly lower seat-count (280 versus 306) on IAD-HKG which is 1 hour longer at 15 hours west-bound! Or is it that cargo is a big component of LAX-SYD and they can haul the passengers+bags but not cargo?



The old “77L” a model that was introduced by Boeing in 2005. Delta took on their last 77L in 2010. Old
 
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:28 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
While the airframes certainly aren't getting any younger (even then, they're by no means "old"), the cabins on the (currently only two) 777s operating the SYD route were recently completely redone and are anything but old. Indeed LAX-SYD is the only route being flown by 77Ls with the new cabin (until N707DN returns to service in the coming days).

Just to add to that, LAX-CDG is getting the refurbished 77L starting June.
 
moyangmm
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:44 am

Because A350 has to reduce payload in order to make westbound LAX-SYD. People defend it using Airbus' highly unrealistic range number. But DL's own data shows it simply doesn't have the range. There were multiple reports showing that, with real world DL number.

I suggest you read trav777's detailed analysis:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1393909&p=21034697#p21034697

Numbers doesn't lie.
 
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:54 am

x1234 wrote:
Also I looked up the longest flights currently on the DL A359 and they are both DTW-PVG and ATL-ICN westbound averaging 14-14.5 hours so the A359 can clearly do almost 15 hour flight with reserves:
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl583
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl27


Mind you LAX-SYD is still 336nm farther than ATL-ICN.
 
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:05 am

seabosdca wrote:
275 t MTOW, the maximum on the first 12 aircraft

:shakehead: There's nothing preventing those aircraft from going to 277T, if DL wanted to stroke a further cheque.
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bhxalex
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:59 am

The version DL operates can make LAX-SYD no problems. End of.

Just because an airline uses older equipment on a long route, doesn't always mean their newer equipment can't operate it. There's quite a lot of threads and incorrect replies from armchair experts about performance, purely based on the fact the aircraft isn't on the route currently.

Scheduling, crew and crew bases, opportunity cost etc are reasons that need to be factored in.
BA operate the 772 on the LHR-BKK sector, one of their longest routes, does this mean the 789 can't reach BKK from LON? Of course not.
 
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:00 am

x1234 wrote:
So I'm planning a trip to SYD and found out the old 77L is still on the LAX-SYD route. I did a search and someone said here that the DL A359 even with the 275t upgrade can't fly LAX-SYD with full payload. For such a long trip I'm planning to book AA's 789 because of the lower cabin pressure (my skin gets dry easily even with creams). Why is it that the DL A350 being so new can't fly LAX-SYD with full payload. The flight is only 14 hours southbound and CX flies their A359 with a slightly lower seat-count (280 versus 306) on IAD-HKG which is 1 hour longer at 15 hours west-bound! Or is it that cargo is a big component of LAX-SYD and they can haul the passengers+bags but not cargo?


The 777LR is NOT old, please.
And DL's birds are not only offering 9-across in Y, but also good legroom, comfy seats, and a very nice refurbished cabin. I agree the A350 is A LOT quieter, but that's about it.
Personally, in this particular instance, I'd rather go for DL's 9-abreast economy over the 787 (which I love, don't get me wrong), although I admit the moist air on the latter is great for very long flights. Space wins for me over air moisture.
 
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:13 am

If the issue is the alternate airports, this is troubling and does indicate performance issues with the 350.

BNE and MEL are approximately 1 hour away from SYD - that’s not very close, but not very far either for an alternate. I reckon, the A350 needs around 5 tons of alternate fuel + approx 4t of final reserves.

If they really need to plan Canberra as alternate (which is ~20 minutes away) to keep payload intact, then it means, this route is on the edge for the 268T A350
 
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:27 am

moyangmm wrote:
Because A350 has to reduce payload in order to make westbound LAX-SYD. People defend it using Airbus' highly unrealistic range number. But DL's own data shows it simply doesn't have the range. There were multiple reports showing that, with real world DL number.

I suggest you read trav777's detailed analysis:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1393909&p=21034697#p21034697

Numbers doesn't lie.

The post you reference isolates Delta's range numbers, not Airbuses. I believe the reality is that DL mis-ordered their first A350s which has had limits on their implementation. They're still useful, but on shorter routes.
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x1234
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:36 am

You guys maybe right. I also googled and found this nugget on a pilot forum:
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delt ... 350-9.html
"I was told the problem with the A350 doing LAX-SYD was it won't carry enough alternate fuel for using Brisbane as an alternate, which is required because SYD doesn't have a Cat 3 runway.

It will fly LAX- SYD, but it won't fly there and then fly up to Brisbane. There's not a whole lot of divert options out that way, just a lot of ocean thus the need for Brisbane as an alternate."
 
moyangmm
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:35 pm

EChid wrote:
moyangmm wrote:
Because A350 has to reduce payload in order to make westbound LAX-SYD. People defend it using Airbus' highly unrealistic range number. But DL's own data shows it simply doesn't have the range. There were multiple reports showing that, with real world DL number.

I suggest you read trav777's detailed analysis:
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtop ... #p21034697

Numbers doesn't lie.

The post you reference isolates Delta's range numbers, not Airbuses. I believe the reality is that DL mis-ordered their first A350s which has had limits on their implementation. They're still useful, but on shorter routes.


DL has already uprated all their A359 to 275t. There is no misorder at all.
 
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:54 pm

Does anyone has numbers regarding DL LAX-SYD flight regarding seat count and payload? Are we talking about an average 30T payload? 40T? More or less?
 
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SQ22
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:06 pm

I also recommend to have a read here:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1406387

Some insights about A350 and its range.
 
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:17 pm

thepinkmachine wrote:
If the issue is the alternate airports, this is troubling and does indicate performance issues with the 350.

BNE and MEL are approximately 1 hour away from SYD - that’s not very close, but not very far either for an alternate. I reckon, the A350 needs around 5 tons of alternate fuel + approx 4t of final reserves.

If they really need to plan Canberra as alternate (which is ~20 minutes away) to keep payload intact, then it means, this route is on the edge for the 268T A350


Don’t see the issue, LAX-SYD is around 15-15:30 with the 77L, it would be 30 minutes quicker with the A350. We fly IAD-HKG which is also 15-15:30 with the A350 (ie further than LAX-SYD). I can easily carry KHH (424 nm) instead of MFM (95 nm) it is only around an additional 3.5 tonnes. Leaving IAD using KHH as an alternate would have a total fuel load of around 100 tonnes (inc taxi, trip, contingency, reserve, alternate etc), and a payload of around 40 tonnes. My guess is the 77L would have a total fuel load of around 130 tonnes for the same trip.

If they want even more payload, get the -1000, similar fuel burn to the -900 with 20 plus tonnes more payload.
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evanb
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:33 pm

EChid wrote:
The post you reference isolates Delta's range numbers, not Airbuses. I believe the reality is that DL mis-ordered their first A350s which has had limits on their implementation. They're still useful, but on shorter routes.


I don't think DL made any mistake. Unlike some other carriers, DL didn't order the A350 as an ULH airliner. They had the B77L as an ULH airliner. So they simply didn't need range and they chose to reduce their operating costs by having a lower MTOW. The cool part is that they have the flexibly to change this in the future if they want to. What it also shows is how flexible the A350 can be for airlines. It can be anything from an optimized medium range to ULH aircraft - that is quite exceptional and what SQ are doing with it!

Just look at where DL fly the B77Ls:
ATL-JNB 8,439 mi
ATL-PVG 7,659 mi
LAX-SYD 7,488 mi

Whereas the longest A350 route is ATL-ICN at 7,152 mi. That makes me think this is intentional!
 
airbazar
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:34 pm

I suspect the pax revenue side of the equation is the reason. The 77L is more premium heavy vs. the A350. If LAX-SYD is a premium heavy route for DL then it makes sense to deploy the aircraft with the most premium seats and fewer Y seats to offset the higher fuel burn.
 
x1234
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:59 pm

airbazar, actually looking at the reconfigured 777, the 777 has 28 Delta One Suites while the A350 has 32 (4 more). And I find it funny that the A350 can't even do LAX-SYD while UA's 789 is flying IAH-SYD (6th longest route in the world).
 
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:08 pm

x1234 wrote:
airbazar, actually looking at the reconfigured 777, the 777 has 28 Delta One Suites while the A350 has 32 (4 more). And I find it funny that the A350 can't even do LAX-SYD while UA's 789 is flying IAH-SYD (6th longest route in the world).


As I said repeatedly in this forum, the A350 is simply not as capable as it seems to be. Another example is LAX-SIN: UA 789 can do it easily but SQ's 276t A359 can't, even with merely 253 seats(!); you need a 280t A359 with seat number reduce to 161 in order to fly that route.
 
moyangmm
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:12 pm

evanb wrote:
I don't think DL made any mistake. Unlike some other carriers, DL didn't order the A350 as an ULH airliner. They had the B77L as an ULH airliner. So they simply didn't need range and they chose to reduce their operating costs by having a lower MTOW.


They did make a mistake. Their original 268t frames had problems flying relatively short TPAC routes, such as DTW-PEK; they had to up-rate them to 275t to be able to haul a profitable payload.

A350 is underwhelming as a regular TPAC aircraft, let alone an ULH airliner.
 
ITSTours
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:22 pm

moyangmm wrote:
evanb wrote:
I don't think DL made any mistake. Unlike some other carriers, DL didn't order the A350 as an ULH airliner. They had the B77L as an ULH airliner. So they simply didn't need range and they chose to reduce their operating costs by having a lower MTOW.


They did make a mistake. Their original 268t frames had problems flying relatively short TPAC routes, such as DTW-PEK; they had to up-rate them to 275t to be able to haul a profitable payload.

A350 is underwhelming as a regular TPAC aircraft, let alone an ULH airliner.


Zeke just a few posts above gave his data point for A350 flying IAD-HKG without any problem.
You also largely misinterpreted the BTS data I showed before.

Why are you constantly trying to mislead people here, arguing A350 is significantly worse than 787?
 
moyangmm
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:29 pm

ITSTours wrote:
Why are you constantly trying to mislead people here, arguing A350 is significantly worse than 787?


I didn't mislead people. I was simply pointing out the fact that A350 doesn't have the range like 789, or even 77W. I didn't say A350 is worse than 787 in all aspects. It still has larger cabin than 787, for example.
 
ITSTours
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:30 pm

I recommend reading this thread as well.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1417135&start=50
 
ITSTours
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:31 pm

moyangmm wrote:
ITSTours wrote:
Why are you constantly trying to mislead people here, arguing A350 is significantly worse than 787?


I didn't mislead people. I was simply pointing out the fact that A350 doesn't have the range like 789, or even 77W. I didn't say A350 is worse than 787 in all aspects. It still has larger cabin than 787, for example.


Using wrong numbers and wrong interpretations leading to the conclusions refuted by the people who actually fly them. It is misleading.
 
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crimsonchin
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:46 pm

moyangmm wrote:
ITSTours wrote:
Why are you constantly trying to mislead people here, arguing A350 is significantly worse than 787?


I didn't mislead people. I was simply pointing out the fact that A350 doesn't have the range like 789, or even 77W. I didn't say A350 is worse than 787 in all aspects. It still has larger cabin than 787, for example.


None of what you're saying is making sense especially considering someone above just confirmed they flew the damn things on longer routes. Another member just also said DL maybe have initially ordered lower MTOW A350s that couldn't do the route, yet you're repeating that even the upgraded MTOW doesn't have the range, which again isn't true. Are you even reading the thread or just repeating unsubstantiated BS?
 
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seabosdca
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:00 pm

Again, just to clear up all doubt and misinformation:

With the 275 t uprate, the A350 can carry a full passenger load with zero issues on any route in the Delta network except JNB-ATL.

It doesn't have the cargo hauling ability above 5500 nm that the 77L does, but that would not have come as a surprise to anyone. No other aircraft can haul cargo on long routes like the 77L. But the A350 will burn significantly less fuel carrying the payloads it can carry, and so you'd expect it to end up on long routes once the supply of airframes is sufficient, unless the cargo business on a given route is unusually lucrative.
 
smartplane
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Re: How come the DL A350 can't fly LAX-SYD it is rumored!?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:02 pm

ElroyJetson wrote:
This topic has come up several times before. I would refer to other threads on the subject.

On which the Topic Author has participated, and raised the same questions / issues.
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