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SuseJ772
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TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:12 am

I was very excited about the TPA-AMS flight that was added by DL especially since it was daily and year round. But it appears to only be bookable through October.

Has it already been cancelled?

Or was I wrong and it was just seasonal?
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
Ishrion
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:13 am

Last I remember, it was year round.
 
Murdoughnut
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:15 am

Seasonal for year one, not cancelled.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:28 am

FWIW, I received this last month when I asked:
Image
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MSPNWA
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:41 am

So much for year-round service. We'll see if it's going to seasonal, or going "seasonal", never to return.

Midwestindy wrote:
FWIW, I received this last month when I asked:


Clever excuse. Have to admire the effort though.
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:43 am

Midwestindy wrote:
FWIW, I received this last month when I asked:
Image

Interesting. I hope this is true. I can’t go before October but hoping next January.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
MAH4546
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:53 am

It was loaded year-round and then removed.
a.
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:56 am

MAH4546 wrote:
It was loaded year-round and then removed.

Hmmmmmm.... the plot thickens.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
burnsie28
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:37 am

MAH4546 wrote:
It was loaded year-round and then removed.


I was able to just pull it up for October 25

DL 76 TPA-AMS 19:55-10:55 +1
DL 77 AMS-TPA 13:20-17:55

It's also still early and the person at DL isn't wrong, metal neutral needs to be approved by all JV partners and given AMS time constraints perhaps they are figuring out a different time schedule.
 
MAH4546
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:55 am

burnsie28 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
It was loaded year-round and then removed.


I was able to just pull it up for October 25

DL 76 TPA-AMS 19:55-10:55 +1
DL 77 AMS-TPA 13:20-17:55

It's also still early and the person at DL isn't wrong, metal neutral needs to be approved by all JV partners and given AMS time constraints perhaps they are figuring out a different time schedule.


Correct, currently. About a month ago you could pull it past that.

It's not "early" to put in winter schedules.

I just think it's going seasonal, which makes sense. Too much capacity on Tampa-Europe as is, not to mention Florida-Europe as a whole.
a.
 
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:53 am

MAH4546 wrote:
burnsie28 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
It was loaded year-round and then removed.


I was able to just pull it up for October 25

DL 76 TPA-AMS 19:55-10:55 +1
DL 77 AMS-TPA 13:20-17:55

It's also still early and the person at DL isn't wrong, metal neutral needs to be approved by all JV partners and given AMS time constraints perhaps they are figuring out a different time schedule.


Correct, currently. About a month ago you could pull it past that.

It's not "early" to put in winter schedules.

I just think it's going seasonal, which makes sense. Too much capacity on Tampa-Europe as is, not to mention Florida-Europe as a whole.


Though I'd argue most of that capacity is focused from 2 airports in particular. I don't have figures to hand, but capacity from TPA to points in Europe is a fraction of what's on offer from MCO and MIA and to less destinations. I'll let others decide if there's untapped demand or it's about right.
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:16 pm

No one wants to fly that decrepit 767300 for near ten hours hence bookings are light as people choose VS from MCO or connect thru ATL/DTW/JFK
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
jetskipper
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:26 pm

NWADTWE16 wrote:
No one wants to fly that decrepit 767300 for near ten hours hence bookings are light as people choose VS from MCO or connect thru ATL/DTW/JFK


Said the 0.000007% of Airliners.net users that regularly fly between Tampa and Amsterdam. The rest of the customers have no clue what kind of aircraft they are on let alone the age of the aircraft or interior configuration. Even with that being said who in their right mind would connect through ATL or JFK when there is a non-stop available no matter what the equipment.
 
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:40 pm

NWADTWE16 wrote:
No one wants to fly that decrepit 767300 for near ten hours hence bookings are light as people choose VS from MCO or connect thru ATL/DTW/JFK


I have no idea why the DL 763 gets derided as the flying dinosaur, when it's one of the most comfortable plane to fly from a Y perspective. It also looks quite fresh on the inside, so most of the flying public has no idea of the age... I'd bet they do like the 2 x 3 x 2 seating:

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MIflyer12
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:46 pm

boeingguy1 wrote:
NWADTWE16 wrote:
No one wants to fly that decrepit 767300 for near ten hours hence bookings are light as people choose VS from MCO or connect thru ATL/DTW/JFK


I have no idea why the DL 763 gets derided as the flying dinosaur, when it's one of the most comfortable plane to fly from a Y perspective.


It's just ignorance from people who don't know the extent of Delta's 767 refurbs (seats, pivot bins, PSUs, power, AVOD) and just complain about frame chronological age - or who just ideologically complain about everything Delta. Uninformed posts in a public forum are worse than worthless because they require effort to correct.
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:48 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
burnsie28 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
It was loaded year-round and then removed.


I was able to just pull it up for October 25

DL 76 TPA-AMS 19:55-10:55 +1
DL 77 AMS-TPA 13:20-17:55

It's also still early and the person at DL isn't wrong, metal neutral needs to be approved by all JV partners and given AMS time constraints perhaps they are figuring out a different time schedule.


Correct, currently. About a month ago you could pull it past that.

It's not "early" to put in winter schedules.

I just think it's going seasonal, which makes sense. Too much capacity on Tampa-Europe as is, not to mention Florida-Europe as a whole.


DL flies MCO-AMS year-round so TPA might well be too much capacity considering how close they are. MCO-AMS also a night time departure at 2140.

NWADTWE16 wrote:
No one wants to fly that decrepit 767300 for near ten hours hence bookings are light as people choose VS from MCO or connect thru ATL/DTW/JFK


Since when did VS fly MCO-AMS???
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hohd
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:02 pm

A 767 in economy is better than 787 or 777 in economy, assuming that 767 has individual IFE's. The seats are slightly wider and there is only one middle seat.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:43 pm

boeingguy1 wrote:
NWADTWE16 wrote:
No one wants to fly that decrepit 767300 for near ten hours hence bookings are light as people choose VS from MCO or connect thru ATL/DTW/JFK


I have no idea why the DL 763 gets derided as the flying dinosaur, when it's one of the most comfortable plane to fly from a Y perspective. It also looks quite fresh on the inside, so most of the flying public has no idea of the age... I'd bet they do like the 2 x 3 x 2 seating:



While the old J product was indeed decrepit, the new J product isn't bad either.

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klm617
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:07 pm

boeingguy1 wrote:
NWADTWE16 wrote:
No one wants to fly that decrepit 767300 for near ten hours hence bookings are light as people choose VS from MCO or connect thru ATL/DTW/JFK


I have no idea why the DL 763 gets derided as the flying dinosaur, when it's one of the most comfortable plane to fly from a Y perspective. It also looks quite fresh on the inside, so most of the flying public has no idea of the age... I'd bet they do like the 2 x 3 x 2 seating:



The 333 is better but I like the 767 it works for me except when you fly BE and get stuck in the middle then it really does suck.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:19 pm

Me...i am one who avoids it lol. Oh and MCO is so close to tpa that I take vs from MCO over either NS from TPA or MCO to and. Most people's final destination is not ams do into a hub is as good as any other. I have multiple trips this year where I'm using AF A388 from/to ATL as well so much better than JFK but yes out of the way. If I'm doing it some fraction of others are
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axiom
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:23 pm

I went out of my way to book family on TPA-AMS this summer, precisely because it was a 767. And I can think of no better Y experience to get them from TPA to the continent. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the route be made summer seasonal - MAH is spot on regarding capacity. Let’s see what happens.
 
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:29 pm

NWADTWE16 wrote:
No one wants to fly that decrepit 767300 for near ten hours hence bookings are light as people choose VS from MCO or connect thru ATL/DTW/JFK


2 x 3 x 2 in Y and 1 x 2 x 1 flatbed seats in J. Sign me up any day for this flight.
 
ScrantonUSC
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:09 pm

In Y, I seek out 767s and A330s whenever I can. It’s a no brainer, especially if you are traveling with another person.
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:44 pm

Loads are low and prices are as well for both TPA-AMS and MCO-AMS so perhaps the traveling public is more intelligent than the arm chair CEOs here think
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axiom
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:06 pm

NWADTWE16 wrote:
Loads are low and prices are as well for both TPA-AMS and MCO-AMS so perhaps the traveling public is more intelligent than the arm chair CEOs here think


Or there are other, far more important factors. Like underlying demand. Or yield and opportunity cost.

Where’s the eye roll emoji?
 
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flymco753
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:13 pm

MCO-AMS has been averaging LFs in the upper 80s with the available form 41 data. That route isnt going anywhere unless market dynamics change.
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:58 pm

NWADTWE16 wrote:
Loads are low and prices are as well for both TPA-AMS and MCO-AMS so perhaps the traveling public is more intelligent than the arm chair CEOs here think


Sounds a bitter (and maybe former NW) Delta-hater here!
 
axiom
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:12 pm

A representative from TPA confirmed that the route is being launched on a seasonal basis, running May-October.
 
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:19 pm

AMS has less slots available in winter than summer and it wouldn’t surprise if this applies to DL as well. Could be (part of) the reason for seasonality of this route.
 
klm617
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:27 pm

Again more proof of what happens with airlines piling on in certain markets while letting others go unserved.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:37 pm

Jetty wrote:
AMS has less slots available in winter than summer and it wouldn’t surprise if this applies to DL as well. Could be (part of) the reason for seasonality of this route.


If the route was living up to it's expectations they would find a slot but the truth probably is they can't compete with FI and DY fares in the low season.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Murdoughnut
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:44 pm

klm617 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
AMS has less slots available in winter than summer and it wouldn’t surprise if this applies to DL as well. Could be (part of) the reason for seasonality of this route.


If the route was living up to it's expectations they would find a slot but the truth probably is they can't compete with FI and DY fares in the low season.


It's too early to evaluate bookings at this point - particularly since we haven't yet entered the European originating winter booking curve. More likely that it reflects caution on transatlantic growth during the European point of sale dominated season in the midst of so much capacity, and so much economic uncertainty.
 
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:25 pm

I flew DL SEA-ICN on the 767 in October and the aircraft lavatories had zero running water and hot tea was not possible to order, too! This occurred over Eastern Siberia. Is this a sign that it is time to retire the 767 on the longer TPAC routes?
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klm617
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:42 pm

Murdoughnut wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
AMS has less slots available in winter than summer and it wouldn’t surprise if this applies to DL as well. Could be (part of) the reason for seasonality of this route.


If the route was living up to it's expectations they would find a slot but the truth probably is they can't compete with FI and DY fares in the low season.


It's too early to evaluate bookings at this point - particularly since we haven't yet entered the European originating winter booking curve. More likely that it reflects caution on transatlantic growth during the European point of sale dominated season in the midst of so much capacity, and so much economic uncertainty.


And that right there says a lot about AMS-TPA if Delta is closing reservations on the flight when it would have the highest demand from Europe. Delta was too late to the party as most Europeans are aligned with their carrier already and the only way to win them over is with cheap air fares and TPA is just not that important to Delta.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:58 pm

axiom wrote:
A representative from TPA confirmed that the route is being launched on a seasonal basis, running May-October.
Bummer. But understandable.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
FLYKTPA
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:28 pm

klm617 wrote:
Murdoughnut wrote:
klm617 wrote:

If the route was living up to it's expectations they would find a slot but the truth probably is they can't compete with FI and DY fares in the low season.


It's too early to evaluate bookings at this point - particularly since we haven't yet entered the European originating winter booking curve. More likely that it reflects caution on transatlantic growth during the European point of sale dominated season in the midst of so much capacity, and so much economic uncertainty.


And that right there says a lot about AMS-TPA if Delta is closing reservations on the flight when it would have the highest demand from Europe. Delta was too late to the party as most Europeans are aligned with their carrier already and the only way to win them over is with cheap air fares and TPA is just not that important to Delta.


They actually doing the opposite of what you said. Cutting the route during the slow season for both sides. Winter is not the high season for Europe-US traffic.
Huge fan of Tampa International Airport
 
klm617
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:19 am

FLYKTPA wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Murdoughnut wrote:

It's too early to evaluate bookings at this point - particularly since we haven't yet entered the European originating winter booking curve. More likely that it reflects caution on transatlantic growth during the European point of sale dominated season in the midst of so much capacity, and so much economic uncertainty.


And that right there says a lot about AMS-TPA if Delta is closing reservations on the flight when it would have the highest demand from Europe. Delta was too late to the party as most Europeans are aligned with their carrier already and the only way to win them over is with cheap air fares and TPA is just not that important to Delta.


They actually doing the opposite of what you said. Cutting the route during the slow season for both sides. Winter is not the high season for Europe-US traffic.



It is if you're going to Florida. High season for tourism into Florida is the winter months not the summer months unless you're going to Disney where it's best to go if kids are on summer holiday..
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
MAH4546
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:22 am

klm617 wrote:
FLYKTPA wrote:
klm617 wrote:

And that right there says a lot about AMS-TPA if Delta is closing reservations on the flight when it would have the highest demand from Europe. Delta was too late to the party as most Europeans are aligned with their carrier already and the only way to win them over is with cheap air fares and TPA is just not that important to Delta.


They actually doing the opposite of what you said. Cutting the route during the slow season for both sides. Winter is not the high season for Europe-US traffic.



It is if you're going to Florida. High season for tourism into Florida is the winter months not the summer months unless you're going to Disney where it's best to go if kids are on summer holiday..


Florida double-peaks. The busiest months to/from Europe are March, April, July and August.
a.
 
klm617
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:16 am

MAH4546 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
FLYKTPA wrote:

They actually doing the opposite of what you said. Cutting the route during the slow season for both sides. Winter is not the high season for Europe-US traffic.



It is if you're going to Florida. High season for tourism into Florida is the winter months not the summer months unless you're going to Disney where it's best to go if kids are on summer holiday..


Florida double-peaks. The busiest months to/from Europe are March, April, July and August.


Well they are running it from May to October cut off half the demand for peak travel. I contend that TPA is over served at the moment and now things are going to level out a bit and the first indication of that is Delta going from year round to seasonal even before it starts. I would also say there is a lot of traffic around Christmas and New Years
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:22 am

SuseJ772 wrote:
I was very excited about the TPA-AMS flight that was added by DL especially since it was daily and year round. But it appears to only be bookable through October.

Has it already been cancelled?

Or was I wrong and it was just seasonal?


Here is the press release it was suppose to be year round.

TAMPA, Fla. — Delta Air Lines announced Wednesday that it will launch year-round nonstop flights to Amsterdam from Tampa International Airport beginning May 23.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
FLYKTPA
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:04 am

TPA’s peak season for European demand is April-October so going seasonal makes sense for now. I think we’re gonna see the flight return some time in April 2020 and run through October.
Huge fan of Tampa International Airport
 
winginit
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:16 am

Jetty wrote:
AMS has less slots available in winter than summer and it wouldn’t surprise if this applies to DL as well. Could be (part of) the reason for seasonality of this route.


klm617 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
klm617 wrote:


It is if you're going to Florida. High season for tourism into Florida is the winter months not the summer months unless you're going to Disney where it's best to go if kids are on summer holiday..


Florida double-peaks. The busiest months to/from Europe are March, April, July and August.


Well they are running it from May to October cut off half the demand for peak travel. I contend that TPA is over served at the moment and now things are going to level out a bit and the first indication of that is Delta going from year round to seasonal even before it starts. I would also say there is a lot of traffic around Christmas and New Years


As Jetty points out, I think there's more to this story than TPA and I think it has to do with AMS specifically. I've just noticed that, much like TPA-AMS, DL has also removed their daily LAX-AMS flight from the schedule starting in September of this year. That's a bit odd in that the flight is scheduled to go from 4x weekly to daily starting in June and I hadn't heard it was going to be a seasonal route after going daily. This makes me think there's either something going on with AMS or this is the beginning of some TATL capacity rightsizing on account of forward revenue weakness.

AirAfreak wrote:
I flew DL SEA-ICN on the 767 in October and the aircraft lavatories had zero running water and hot tea was not possible to order, too! This occurred over Eastern Siberia. Is this a sign that it is time to retire the 767 on the longer TPAC routes?


It absolutely is a sign, and fortunately that's exactly what DL is doing. I believe for TPAC they'll be transitioning to all brand new 339s possibly with the exception of SEA-KIX.
 
xdlx
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:58 am

I do hope MCO gets KLM instead.......
 
klm617
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:42 am

winginit wrote:
Jetty wrote:
AMS has less slots available in winter than summer and it wouldn’t surprise if this applies to DL as well. Could be (part of) the reason for seasonality of this route.


klm617 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

Florida double-peaks. The busiest months to/from Europe are March, April, July and August.


Well they are running it from May to October cut off half the demand for peak travel. I contend that TPA is over served at the moment and now things are going to level out a bit and the first indication of that is Delta going from year round to seasonal even before it starts. I would also say there is a lot of traffic around Christmas and New Years


As Jetty points out, I think there's more to this story than TPA and I think it has to do with AMS specifically. I've just noticed that, much like TPA-AMS, DL has also removed their daily LAX-AMS flight from the schedule starting in September of this year. That's a bit odd in that the flight is scheduled to go from 4x weekly to daily starting in June and I hadn't heard it was going to be a seasonal route after going daily. This makes me think there's either something going on with AMS or this is the beginning of some TATL capacity rightsizing on account of forward revenue weakness.

AirAfreak wrote:
I flew DL SEA-ICN on the 767 in October and the aircraft lavatories had zero running water and hot tea was not possible to order, too! This occurred over Eastern Siberia. Is this a sign that it is time to retire the 767 on the longer TPAC routes?


It absolutely is a sign, and fortunately that's exactly what DL is doing. I believe for TPAC they'll be transitioning to all brand new 339s possibly with the exception of SEA-KIX.


I agree with your second point because if these routes were revenue cash cows they would finds slots for them. TPA has gotten to the point where it's oversaturated and yields have probably been depressed due to that fact. Just like PIT there is always a tipping point where no amount of Money makes a route viable if it's not generating a profit and Delta has very high expectations for return on investment when they start a route. My guess is that the TPA-AMS market it better served with a connection through ATL.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Flyingstump
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Re: TPA-AMS on DL Already Cancelled?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:22 pm

After reading through this thread, I thought there might be something to worry about. However, doing a random review of loads on Delta's site, it doesn't look bad at all. For many of the days, Delta Comfort is sold out. Some days, For Delta One, there were more days for when the cabin was almost completely full than when it was less than 50% occupied. Y for some days doesn't look great, but I didn't see any aircraft that were less than half full. (If you're curious, I searched for TPA - AMS. The Outbound Days I reviewed were from 06/08/19 - 06/15/19, and the Return Days I reviewed were from 06/16/19 - 06/23/19. I understand this is the "busy" season for such a route).

If I were Delta, I might focus less on trying to make this a daily seasonal service and more on the best frequency year round. Icelandair increased service and cited strong business demand, and although Lufthansa's service started out as a leisure/vacation play, it seems to have turned into a premium service play. Regardless, I hope for the best!

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