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exFWAOONW wrote:Boeing hasn’t been the same since McDonnell Douglas bought them with their own money. These are the the same managers that made the MD11 a short-lived plane by not updating the wing to save a couple of dollars. I won’t shed a tear to see them depart.
TheFlyingDisk wrote:Bring back Alan Mulally. Maybe not as Muilenburg's replacement, but as chairman while he continues being the CEO.
SuperGee wrote:Apologies if this has already been discussed but the existing Max and 787 threads have become so humongously large they are difficult to read entirely and searching on them didn’t lead me to any existing discussion.
For the same reason, I thought that a new topic was warranted for this discussion. If it more correctly belongs on one of the existing Boeing threads, please feel free to move it.
It seems to me that with all of the MAX problems and now the alleged issues at the Charleston 787 plant, there must be some seats in Boeing upper management (right up through the CEO) that must be getting pretty warm by now. This has to be one of the biggest crises in the company's history and they are clearly up against it. I could see the decision makers saying “we’re in a real mess but the guys that are in there now know the place better than anyone else and are the best ones to stay there and lead us out of it."
On the other hand, I could also see them say “the guys that are in there now got us into this mess and it’s time for some new blood at the top”. I know that there have already been changes in engineering and other staff positions because of the MAX problems but does anyone see any changes coming at Boeing upper management as well?
exFWAOONW wrote:Boeing hasn’t been the same since McDonnell Douglas bought them with their own money. These are the the same managers that made the MD11 a short-lived plane by not updating the wing to save a couple of dollars. I won’t shed a tear to see them depart.
Veigar wrote:I strongly doubt any of the things we're having issues with today go as far back as McDonnell Douglas. lol
(The 7E7 model) is very similar to the way we are managing the 717 program," Bair said. "It's clearly given us some experience in how to manage a program a little differently than we have in the past.
ELBOB wrote:Veigar wrote:I strongly doubt any of the things we're having issues with today go as far back as McDonnell Douglas. lol
The current institutional problems are the legacy of decisions of people like Harry Stonecipher who came from... guess where?
And the first 7E7 / 787 Program Manager, Mike Bair, stated clearly that the outsourcing approach used on that project was copied from MDC's approach for the MD-95 which had such ridiculous contracts such as Hyundai building wings, which they'd never done before. He continued:(The 7E7 model) is very similar to the way we are managing the 717 program," Bair said. "It's clearly given us some experience in how to manage a program a little differently than we have in the past.
Yeah, let us know how that works out...
Boeing's management culture changed totally in 1997 and they're now paying the cost.
SuperGee wrote:Profits down 21% because of MAX crisis. That will get somebody's attention....well, it should anyway:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/24/investin ... index.html
"The stock market took the news in stride; pre-market trading saw Boeing stock rise more than $6 (1.66%) an hour before opening."
"The MAX was grounding March 13, affecting only two weeks of the first quarter. The full impact is to come. As a result, Boeing suspended guidance for the year and will reissue it at a later date."
https://leehamnews.com/2019/04/24/boein ... more-29960
Will/Should Boeing Have a Top Management Change?
crownvic wrote:LOTS of heads have rolled at Airbus for similar debacles.
Aesma wrote:Is there a criminal investigation in the US over the 737Max crashes ?
jetblueguy22 wrote:Wall Street likes the current management, even throughout the grounding they’ve demonstrated they aren’t abandoning them. That says a lot when the company is in crisis mode.
robsaw wrote:Aesma wrote:Is there a criminal investigation in the US over the 737Max crashes ?
I'm not aware of any directly associated with the MAX crashes but there is a US Justice Department investigation into Boeing's Federal Aviation Administration certification and marketing of 737 Max planes, which could lead to criminal indictments.
BravoOne wrote:There are several departments that could use a good scrubbing, namely Flight Technical and Flight Training Development, along with moving Flight Training back to Seattle where it belongs. To do that, several people would have to admit previous errors and that will never happen.
exFWAOONW wrote:How is Muilenburg, a Boeing employee since 1985, part of the management responsible for the MD11?Boeing hasn’t been the same since McDonnell Douglas bought them with their own money. These are the the same managers that made the MD11 a short-lived plane by not updating the wing to save a couple of dollars. I won’t shed a tear to see them depart.
BoeingGuy wrote:Lets be clear. There is a fairly new CEO who I believe is better than the past few.
It was Phil Condit, Harry Stoneciper, and Jim McSlimeball that did so much damage.
McNerney’s gutting of organizations and moving them out of state has caused stuff like the 777X FCOM being a disaster.
The decline pre-dated the Douglas merger. Selling off the pilot and maintenance training department to a “joint venture” in March 1997 was an idiotic move, after the employees begged them not to do it. As with many of these bad decisions, it cost more money than they saved and trashed the quality of training.
Same with the 787 and KC-46 disasters. Great airplanes, but incredible incompetence from the top. In the quest to cut costs, it cost the company far more.
I could go on for hours about how angry and frustrated Boeing employees are with the years of bad management by people who are more interested in lining their own pockets off the backs of the employees. Benefits and retirement have been cut way back, while McSlimeball gave himself over $300,000 a month in pension.
It’s also Wall Street’s fault. While McNerney is damaging the company, the stock price is growing like wildfire.
Having said all this, I’m willing to give Dennis a chance. I don’t think he should be fired. I’m supportive of Kevin so far too. They inherited years of bad management. They didn’t cause it.
Veigar wrote:exFWAOONW wrote:Boeing hasn’t been the same since McDonnell Douglas bought them with their own money. These are the the same managers that made the MD11 a short-lived plane by not updating the wing to save a couple of dollars. I won’t shed a tear to see them depart.
I strongly doubt any of the things we're having issues with today go as far back as McDonnell Douglas. lol
jagraham wrote:Boeing is much more than the 737. Maybe the head of Boeing Commercial Aircraft should be worried, but not the CEO. Not yet.