UA857
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Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:58 am

Why are UA´s 777-300ERs designated as -322ERs and 787 and 737 designated as with the -24 customer code?
 
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B747fanReal
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Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:59 am

Because United’s customer code with Boeing is 22 so that the reason why UA’s 777-300ERs are 777-322ER and for 787’s there are no codes assigned to them and the 737 with 24 code are the ones ordered by Continental Airlines


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LAX772LR
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:51 am

Last two digits on a Boeing model reveal the customer code, for the airline that originally placed the order for that aircraft.
United's is 22, Continental's was 24.

This doesn't apply to MAX, 787s, 777X, and 747-8, as those aircraft have all gone to the (ridiculous) -8/-9/-10/etc numbering system.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
BOSAero
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:23 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Last two digits on a Boeing model reveal the customer code, for the airline that originally placed the order for that aircraft.
United's is 22, Continental's was 24.

This doesn't apply to MAX, 787s, 777X, and 747-8, as those aircraft have all gone to the (ridiculous) -8/-9/-10/etc numbering system.

So..... here is the next logical question. What is the relevancy of the “customer code”? United 22, Continental 24. I don’t understand the relevance.
 
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CARST
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:33 am

BOSAero wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Last two digits on a Boeing model reveal the customer code, for the airline that originally placed the order for that aircraft.
United's is 22, Continental's was 24.

This doesn't apply to MAX, 787s, 777X, and 747-8, as those aircraft have all gone to the (ridiculous) -8/-9/-10/etc numbering system.

So..... here is the next logical question. What is the relevancy of the “customer code”? United 22, Continental 24. I don’t understand the relevance.


Wild guess:
AFAIK Boeing started the customers codes sometimes in the mid 60s and I guess then book-keeping wasn't up to standard with all customers? So they might have decided to "brandmark" the aircraft with the customer code, so everyone could later find out to whom an aircraft belonged or who got it delivered initially?

If you board any Boeing aircraft (before 737max, 787, 747-8, 777X), you would see the official Boeing plaque overhead inside the doorframe of door 1L. It shows the aircraft designation including customer code (manufacturer model number), the serial number, the type certificate and the production certificate. See:

Image
 
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scbriml
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:39 am

LAX772LR wrote:
This doesn't apply to MAX, 787s, 777X, and 747-8, as those aircraft have all gone to the (ridiculous) -8/-9/-10/etc numbering system.


What makes one numbering system "ridiculous" compared to another?

BOSAero wrote:
So..... here is the next logical question. What is the relevancy of the “customer code”? United 22, Continental 24. I don’t understand the relevance.


It has no relevance today, hence why Boeing dropped it in 2016.

It could be argued that it had some relevance back in the early days of aviation with paper records. Even then, it was of very limited value. All it meant was that if you had, for example, a 727-222 you knew it was originally ordered by United. But it didn't tell you anything about who owned or operated it since United sold it.
Last edited by scbriml on Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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bennett123
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:48 am

I thought that it had something to do with the internal layout/fittings.

So 22 meant it was fitted out to UA standards.
 
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B747fanReal
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:49 am

bennett123 wrote:
I thought that it had something to do with the internal layout/fittings.

So 22 meant it was fitted out to UA standards.

22 meant that the aircraft was originally ordered by UA


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scbriml
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:52 am

CARST wrote:
So they might have decided to "brandmark" the aircraft with the customer code, so everyone could later find out to whom an aircraft belonged or who got it delivered initially?


In reality, all it tells you is who originally ordered the plane. Plenty got built for customer A but delivered to customer B. Leasing companies would be a good example - all you know about a 777-36N(ER) is that it was built for GECAS - it doesn't tell you who it was delivered to or operated by.
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SwissCanuck
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:07 am

Different airlines order different options... All 7X7 are not the same. Sort of why they changed the DC-10 to the MD-10 after the cockpit conversion. My understanding is that it has become a lot easier/cheaper to add/remove these options over the years, so the original config doesn't matter so much.
 
ELBOB
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:10 am

bennett123 wrote:
I thought that it had something to do with the internal layout/fittings.

So 22 meant it was fitted out to UA standards.


No, the options and layouts are recorded on internal Boeing systems alone.

They are *partly* revealed by the airframe's Variable Number. Those are composed of a block identifier of ( type code letter, configuration code letter ) and then a serial within that block. It's also the key to all online maintenance and fleet management processes. But even a var number doesn't reflect all the intricate possible options.

The customer codes really served no purpose and complicated the certification process, since each one had to be added to the TCDS.
 
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vhqpa
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:33 am

Another thing making customer codes less relevant was if an operator changed configurations the code would stay the same. MH early 744s were CF6-80 powered but at some point changed to PW4056 on later deliveries both aircraft were 747-4H6s but were fundamentally different configurations. NZ is another airline that changed from RB211 to CF6-80 on their 744 fleet resulting in 747-419s with two different engine types.

Today even the aircraft which one carried customer codes no longer do. If United were to take delivery of a 73H tomorrow it would be a 737-800, not a 737-824
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_AA_777_MAN
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:53 am

It is Boeing's customer code for United. You can do a search on the web and find every customer code that ordered a new Boeing from the 60s up to but not including the 787 and 737MAX. And its "ordered by" not "delivered to" that is relevant for example AI code 37 flies some AC 777-300s code 33.
 
slcguy
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:30 am

UA857 wrote:
Why are UA´s 777-300ERs designated as -322ERs and 787 and 737 designated as with the -24 customer code?



Can't believe there is a thread about this! Been explained in countless A-net threads. Simple answer is Boeing used to assign a customer code to each airline that ordered an aircraft. In the early days it may have meant something as far as configuration/options but that is no longer the case. Boeing has since discontinued the customer code on the 737 Max. 747-8, 787 and 777X. As for the United aircraft mentioned in the OP, these were ordered under the old system. So a 777-322ER was initially ordered by United (Boeing customer code 22) and a 737-824 was initially ordered by Continental (Boeing customer code 24).

Since United and Continental merged it is not surprising there are aircraft with both a 22 or 24 in United's Boeing fleet.
 
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FabDiva
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:00 am

Apologies for bringing Airbus into a Boeing thread but the Airbus numbering does indicate the specification of the aircraft. So an A320-232 for example is an A320-200 with IAE engines (each engine supplier has a number assigned, IAE's is "3"), version 2 (Airbus update their models periodicaly, so each aircraft has a version number)

As said above Boeing use Customer codes
 
codc10
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:12 am

They actually aren’t. Boeing doesn’t use customer codes anymore; the UA 777-300ERs are exactly that, 777-300ER. Check the FAA registry for proof.

Whoever identified them as 777-322ER, wherever they did, has taken a liberty that isn’t rooted in fact.
 
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:51 am

codc10 wrote:
They actually aren’t. Boeing doesn’t use customer codes anymore; the UA 777-300ERs are exactly that, 777-300ER. Check the FAA registry for proof.

Whoever identified them as 777-322ER, wherever they did, has taken a liberty that isn’t rooted in fact.


The FAA database doesn't get that specific. If you want to know for sure, look for the Aircraft Operating Certificate located above the L1 door or on the cockpit bulkhead. Don't make a fool of yourself looking for it though unless you want to look suspicious. If it's original it will have the customer code, if reissued after aircraft changing ownership it may be generic 300 etc. Officially the designation will always have the customer code. Helpful for us Av geeks and photographers who see older aircraft knowing who the original operator of the aircraft was. Well at least who ordered the aircraft, United operated a few 747-451 (51 being the Northwest code), these aircraft were never taken up by Northwest and went to United instead in addition to the United -422s.
Last edited by slcguy on Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:07 pm

vhqpa wrote:
Another thing making customer codes less relevant was if an operator changed configurations the code would stay the same. MH early 744s were CF6-80 powered but at some point changed to PW4056 on later deliveries both aircraft were 747-4H6s but were fundamentally different configurations. NZ is another airline that changed from RB211 to CF6-80 on their 744 fleet resulting in 747-419s with two different engine types.



Same customer code but different variable number. (See page 15 here: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_20/aero_20.pdf )

So one engine type will be an Rxnnn number and the other would be Rynnn where R=747, x and y are alphabetic and nnn= numeric.
Last edited by DL_Mech on Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:12 pm

So, we're all cleared up here, SImply Boeing Customer codes. As far as i know they are no longer used since 787 introduction, but earlier 748s do have them (eg DLH use 747-830s ).
As far as I know, 777s that United ordered to replace the 744s were delivered after Customer codes were discontinued, so they should be just 777-300ER (or 77W if you will), rather than 722 as 777s had their codes discontinued after MSN 1420 or so.

Read about it here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_B ... omer_codes
We don't really need to go down this rabbit hole again, there are plenty of other discussions about this, there is no need for more replies here.

Nothing of value has not already been said, so I would suggest closing this thread.
 
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:47 pm

B747fanReal wrote:
Because United’s customer code with Boeing is 22 so that the reason why UA’s 777-300ERs are 777-322ER and for 787’s there are no codes assigned to them and the 737 with 24 code are the ones ordered by Continental Airlines


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Weren't there add on orders for 737-824's after the UA-CO merger? I don't think any of the 737NG's have the UA customer codes.
 
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res77W
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:51 pm

I for one like the customer codes, it gave a glimpse into the airplane's history. Mergers and leases always make things murky, but it's interesting to trace where a plane has been.

-Rowen
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:24 pm

res77W wrote:
I for one like the customer codes, it gave a glimpse into the airplane's history. Mergers and leases always make things murky, but it's interesting to trace where a plane has been.

-Rowen


I think Boeing was trying to deemphasize variations between planes delivered to different customers. Leasing companies don't like oddball configurations that are hard to place. Banks also don't like lending money for planes that are hard to resell if the airline that buys them goes under.
 
slcguy
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:39 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
B747fanReal wrote:
Because United’s customer code with Boeing is 22 so that the reason why UA’s 777-300ERs are 777-322ER and for 787’s there are no codes assigned to them and the 737 with 24 code are the ones ordered by Continental Airlines


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Weren't there add on orders for 737-824's after the UA-CO merger? I don't think any of the 737NG's have the UA customer codes.


Probably taking deliveries or options on Continental orders made prior to the merger. Once the order or option for more orders was made, Boeing documented it as such for that ailrline. So they were in Boeing's records as Continental even if United took delivery or took up options after the merger. The life of an airliner starts from day one with a single (or maybe many) pieces of paper. LOL
 
burnsie28
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:52 pm

scbriml wrote:
CARST wrote:
So they might have decided to "brandmark" the aircraft with the customer code, so everyone could later find out to whom an aircraft belonged or who got it delivered initially?


In reality, all it tells you is who originally ordered the plane. Plenty got built for customer A but delivered to customer B. Leasing companies would be a good example - all you know about a 777-36N(ER) is that it was built for GECAS - it doesn't tell you who it was delivered to or operated by.


Right a good example also is the couple of 747-451's that were delivered right to UA. Originally ordered by NW but then got delivered to UA.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:56 pm

res77W wrote:
I for one like the customer codes, it gave a glimpse into the airplane's history. Mergers and leases always make things murky, but it's interesting to trace where a plane has been.


But the simple fact is, it only ever gave you one specific piece of information - who originally ordered the plane. After that, it tells you nothing. Zip. Nada.
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:03 pm

DL_Mech wrote:
vhqpa wrote:
Another thing making customer codes less relevant was if an operator changed configurations the code would stay the same. MH early 744s were CF6-80 powered but at some point changed to PW4056 on later deliveries both aircraft were 747-4H6s but were fundamentally different configurations. NZ is another airline that changed from RB211 to CF6-80 on their 744 fleet resulting in 747-419s with two different engine types.



Same customer code but different variable number. (See page 15 here: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_20/aero_20.pdf )

So one engine type will be an Rxnnn number and the other would be Rynnn where R=747, x and y are alphabetic and nnn= numeric.


The MAS block RT741-RT750 had CF-6 for 741/742 and PW for the rest. Although in many cases a different engine had a different block it wasn't driven by the change of engines.
 
slcguy
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:20 pm

scbriml wrote:
res77W wrote:
I for one like the customer codes, it gave a glimpse into the airplane's history. Mergers and leases always make things murky, but it's interesting to trace where a plane has been.


But the simple fact is, it only ever gave you one specific piece of information - who originally ordered the plane. After that, it tells you nothing. Zip. Nada.


True, but is useful for spotters when they see an older aircraft that has changed hands a few times. Gives a good clue where that aircraft started life as.
 
gregn21
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:30 pm

No such thing as a 777-322ER. Boeing hasn’t used customer codes since 2016. UA never took delivery of any 77Ws before that date. 22 was CO’s old customer code which was transferred to UA post merger. Between the 2010 merger and the 2016 discontinuation of customer codes, UA DID take delivery of -x22 aircraft (originally ordered sCO) in addition to -x24 aircraft (originally ordered sUA). Seems like a dumb mistake by whoever used the -322ER identification.
 
slcguy
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:54 pm

gregn21 wrote:
No such thing as a 777-322ER. Boeing hasn’t used customer codes since 2016. UA never took delivery of any 77Ws before that date. 22 was CO’s old customer code which was transferred to UA post merger. Between the 2010 merger and the 2016 discontinuation of customer codes, UA DID take delivery of -x22 aircraft (originally ordered sCO) in addition to -x24 aircraft (originally ordered sUA). Seems like a dumb mistake by whoever used the -322ER identification.


You have the codes reversed, 22 was United's code, 24 was Continental. As for delivery dates, yes Boeing discontinued the codes in 2016, but any aircraft ordered prior to that time were still delivered with the code. So a United 777-322ER ordered prior to 2016 is the correct designation even if it was delivered after that year. Remember there is a few years at least between most orders and the time they are delivered. As I said in previous post, the life of an airliner starts with the first piece of paper, so an order for a 777-322ER placed in 2014 will result in the delivery of a 777-322ER in 2017 regardless if they decide to drop the 22 customer code in 2016. It was still ordered as a 322ER.
Last edited by slcguy on Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
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XAM2175
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:08 pm

For the benefit of people who can't follow links:

Unique, fixed customer codes were used by Boeing Commercial Airplanes to denote the original customer for airframes produced as part of Boeing's 7x7 family of commercial aircraft between 1956, with the introduction of the 707, and 2016.
...
In 2016, Boeing announced that they would no longer apply customer codes to any aircraft produced after a certain point, which would lead to their designators being the "generic" type for the model. The codes were removed from the type certificates for each model with effect from the production line number shown below:

Boeing 737 Next Generation: line number 6082
Boeing P-8 Poseidon: line number 6020
Boeing 747-8: line number 1534
Boeing 767: line number 1102
Boeing 777: line number 1422

Further, customer codes have never been used for the 787 and 737 MAX, and will not be applied to the 777X either.


Notice that the cut-off applies by line number and not order or delivery date.

Additionally, though the Customer Code almost always indicates the company that originally ordered the aircraft it is not 100% the case - one deviation was the sixteen 738s that QF took off AA's hands after September 11, which are certified as 737-838s (but they kept the hideous AA cross-hatch cabin panelling).
 
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DABYT
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:09 pm

burnsie28 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
CARST wrote:
So they might have decided to "brandmark" the aircraft with the customer code, so everyone could later find out to whom an aircraft belonged or who got it delivered initially?


In reality, all it tells you is who originally ordered the plane. Plenty got built for customer A but delivered to customer B. Leasing companies would be a good example - all you know about a 777-36N(ER) is that it was built for GECAS - it doesn't tell you who it was delivered to or operated by.


Right a good example also is the couple of 747-451's that were delivered right to UA. Originally ordered by NW but then got delivered to UA.


Or the 747-430 registered as V8-ALI which was purchased by Lufthansa on behalf of the Sultan of Brunei. Never flew for LH.
 
DALMD80
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:09 pm

Customer code. Southwest 737s are 737-7H4s, for example.
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Yakflyer
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:37 pm

bennett123 wrote:
I thought that it had something to do with the internal layout/fittings.

So 22 meant it was fitted out to UA standards.


Actually you are right on target.

Back when jets were first introduced each customer would specify exactly what options and configuration they wanted for their airplanes. The customer codes were an industry code and both Boeing and Douglas used the same codes for their customers. For example Delta DC-9-30s were DC-9-32s and 727s were 727-232s. Planes back then were configured with options for each airline and it was not just cabin appoints such as type/number of seats and colors. An example of this is TWA switches in the cockpit were 180 degrees different than the rest of the industry with "on" being back and "off" being forward. Everyone else was the other way around. The configuration differences could include different equipment being installed and where certain equipment would be installed. If you look at 757-200 airplanes most come with two over-wing emergency exits, but some airlines ordered a door that is behind the trailing edge of the wings. The point is there was significant customization of the base airplane from one airline to another. If you were a used aircraft broker or a leasing company and you knew the customer code of an airplane you would know the configuration of that plane.

Modern airplanes are much more standardized and the need for customer codes has faded.
 
UA444
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:43 pm

UA still has documents and fleet lists online that officially dub them 777-322ER. There’s also in the 777 production threads posts from those knowledgeable that they still use the customer codes inside Boeing. So they’re not really gone.
 
wernerga3
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:45 pm

So was Pan Am's 21 since the initial 747-100s were the 747-121?
 
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:50 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
So was Pan Am's 21 since the initial 747-100s were the 747-121?

For the benefit of people who can't be bothered to read the whole thread before posting:

Springbok743 wrote:
Read about it here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_B ... omer_codes
We don't really need to go down this rabbit hole again, there are plenty of other discussions about this, there is no need for more replies here.
 
slcguy
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:52 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
So was Pan Am's 21 since the initial 747-100s were the 747-121?


Yes, Pan Am's code was 21.

Look up Boeing customer codes on Wikipedia, good article on the codes and a complete list of all the codes.
Last edited by slcguy on Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
wernerga3
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:53 pm

slcguy wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
So was Pan Am's 21 since the initial 747-100s were the 747-121?


Yes, Pan Am's code was 21.

Look up Boeing airline codes on Wikipedia, good article on the codes and a complete list of all the codes.

Thank you!
 
slcguy
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:04 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
slcguy wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
So was Pan Am's 21 since the initial 747-100s were the 747-121?


Yes, Pan Am's code was 21.

Look up Boeing airline codes on Wikipedia, good article on the codes and a complete list of all the codes.

Thank you!


Actually, look for Boeing customer codes, will get you there quicker.
 
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Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:09 pm

Yakflyer wrote:
The customer codes were an industry code and both Boeing and Douglas used the same codes for their customers. For example Delta DC-9-30s were DC-9-32s and 727s were 727-232s.

I think you're completely way off regarding Douglas.

Yes, Delta Air Lines operated the DC-9-32; but so did the US Military as the C-9 (which was based on the DC-9-32CF that Delta Air Lines never ordered or operated).
Similarly, Eastern Air Lines' Boeing Customer Code was 25; there's never been a DC-9-25 (all 10 DC-9-20's produced were DC-9-21's for SAS, who had a Boeing Customer Code of 05), yet Eastern Air Lines operated the DC-9-31 (launch operator) and 31 was Trans World Airlines' Boeing Customer Code.
I can go on and on and on like that... Your example was a one-off and pure coincidence.
 
slcguy
Posts: 351
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:23 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Yakflyer wrote:
The customer codes were an industry code and both Boeing and Douglas used the same codes for their customers. For example Delta DC-9-30s were DC-9-32s and 727s were 727-232s.

I think you're completely way off regarding Douglas.

Yes, Delta Air Lines operated the DC-9-32; but so did the US Military as the C-9 (which was based on the DC-9-32CF that Delta Air Lines never ordered or operated).
Similarly, Eastern Air Lines' Boeing Customer Code was 25; there's never been a DC-9-25 (all 10 DC-9-20's produced were DC-9-21's for SAS, who had a Boeing Customer Code of 05), yet Eastern Air Lines operated the DC-9-31 (launch operator) and 31 was Trans World Airlines' Boeing Customer Code.
I can go on and on and on like that... Your example was a one-off and pure coincidence.


Douglas codes had no relationship to customers. Douglas codes had completely different meaning, something dealing with variations in the aircraft design such as changes to engine pylons or wing root fairings etc. The DC-9 had a lot of little changes between models of the same variant. Airbus also has different codes on the 320 series including I believe a 232, they indicate engine types installed.

For anybody interested in the DC-9 family here a good link, how could such a simple plane be so complicated LOL.

https://www.airlinercafe.com/page.php?id=396
 
727231
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:33 am

Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:26 pm

The airline that orders a Boeing aircraft have options they make on the airplane...from placement of gauges, up to which way the landing light switches flip up or on or down for on/off. When another airline buys or leases aircraft to use say Delta 757-232 with TWA's 757-231 Delta will provide training on differences so flight crews are aware of which placements and options that airplane has apart from their own model that they are used to. And/or what equipment it does or does not have. Example is the 737MAX as some airlines ordered the angle of attach displayed on the EICAS and others did not, as with the whole MCAS controversy going on right now.
 
codc10
Posts: 2529
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:05 pm

slcguy wrote:
codc10 wrote:
They actually aren’t. Boeing doesn’t use customer codes anymore; the UA 777-300ERs are exactly that, 777-300ER. Check the FAA registry for proof.

Whoever identified them as 777-322ER, wherever they did, has taken a liberty that isn’t rooted in fact.


The FAA database doesn't get that specific. If you want to know for sure, look for the Aircraft Operating Certificate located above the L1 door or on the cockpit bulkhead. Don't make a fool of yourself looking for it though unless you want to look suspicious. If it's original it will have the customer code, if reissued after aircraft changing ownership it may be generic 300 etc. Officially the designation will always have the customer code. Helpful for us Av geeks and photographers who see older aircraft knowing who the original operator of the aircraft was. Well at least who ordered the aircraft, United operated a few 747-451 (51 being the Northwest code), these aircraft were never taken up by Northwest and went to United instead in addition to the United -422s.


It sure does... check it out.

I fully understand the concept of Boeing customer codes, but the point stands. UA 77Ws are not 777-322ER.

E.g.


N2644U is Assigned
Data Updated each Federal Working Day at Midnight

Print This Page Goto New Search Page
Aircraft Description
Serial Number 63724 Status Valid
Manufacturer Name BOEING Certificate Issue Date 06/28/2017
Model 777-300ER Expiration Date 06/30/2020
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Type Engine Turbo-fan

vs.

N641UA is Assigned
Data Updated each Federal Working Day at Midnight

Print This Page Goto New Search Page
Aircraft Description
Serial Number 25091 Status Valid
Manufacturer Name BOEING Certificate Issue Date 03/27/2015
Model 767-322 Expiration Date 03/31/2021
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Type Engine Turbo-fan
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code (base 8 / oct) 52065265
MFR Year 1991 Mode S Code (base 16 / hex) A86AB5
Type Registration Corporation Fractional Owner NO

or


N214UA is Assigned
Data Updated each Federal Working Day at Midnight

Print This Page Goto New Search Page
Aircraft Description
Serial Number 30220 Status Valid
Manufacturer Name BOEING Certificate Issue Date 04/01/2013
Model 777-222 Expiration Date 04/30/2022
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Type Engine Turbo-fan
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code (base 8 / oct) 50345041
MFR Year 2000 Mode S Code (base 16 / hex) A1CA21
Type Registration Corporation Fractional Owner NO
 
slcguy
Posts: 351
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:23 pm

codc10 wrote:
slcguy wrote:
codc10 wrote:
They actually aren’t. Boeing doesn’t use customer codes anymore; the UA 777-300ERs are exactly that, 777-300ER. Check the FAA registry for proof.

Whoever identified them as 777-322ER, wherever they did, has taken a liberty that isn’t rooted in fact.


The FAA database doesn't get that specific. If you want to know for sure, look for the Aircraft Operating Certificate located above the L1 door or on the cockpit bulkhead. Don't make a fool of yourself looking for it though unless you want to look suspicious. If it's original it will have the customer code, if reissued after aircraft changing ownership it may be generic 300 etc. Officially the designation will always have the customer code. Helpful for us Av geeks and photographers who see older aircraft knowing who the original operator of the aircraft was. Well at least who ordered the aircraft, United operated a few 747-451 (51 being the Northwest code), these aircraft were never taken up by Northwest and went to United instead in addition to the United -422s.


It sure does... check it out.

I fully understand the concept of Boeing customer codes, but the point stands. UA 77Ws are not 777-322ER.

E.g.


N2644U is Assigned
Data Updated each Federal Working Day at Midnight

Print This Page Goto New Search Page
Aircraft Description
Serial Number 63724 Status Valid
Manufacturer Name BOEING Certificate Issue Date 06/28/2017
Model 777-300ER Expiration Date 06/30/2020
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Type Engine Turbo-fan

vs.

N641UA is Assigned
Data Updated each Federal Working Day at Midnight

Print This Page Goto New Search Page
Aircraft Description
Serial Number 25091 Status Valid
Manufacturer Name BOEING Certificate Issue Date 03/27/2015
Model 767-322 Expiration Date 03/31/2021
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Type Engine Turbo-fan
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code (base 8 / oct) 52065265
MFR Year 1991 Mode S Code (base 16 / hex) A86AB5
Type Registration Corporation Fractional Owner NO

or


N214UA is Assigned
Data Updated each Federal Working Day at Midnight

Print This Page Goto New Search Page
Aircraft Description
Serial Number 30220 Status Valid
Manufacturer Name BOEING Certificate Issue Date 04/01/2013
Model 777-222 Expiration Date 04/30/2022
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Type Engine Turbo-fan
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code (base 8 / oct) 50345041
MFR Year 2000 Mode S Code (base 16 / hex) A1CA21
Type Registration Corporation Fractional Owner NO


If it was 777 line number 1421 or less it was a 322ER, after that just 300ER. The change occurred in early 2017. Your 777-300ER example was registered in June.
 
codc10
Posts: 2529
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:59 pm

slcguy wrote:
codc10 wrote:
slcguy wrote:

The FAA database doesn't get that specific. If you want to know for sure, look for the Aircraft Operating Certificate located above the L1 door or on the cockpit bulkhead. Don't make a fool of yourself looking for it though unless you want to look suspicious. If it's original it will have the customer code, if reissued after aircraft changing ownership it may be generic 300 etc. Officially the designation will always have the customer code. Helpful for us Av geeks and photographers who see older aircraft knowing who the original operator of the aircraft was. Well at least who ordered the aircraft, United operated a few 747-451 (51 being the Northwest code), these aircraft were never taken up by Northwest and went to United instead in addition to the United -422s.


It sure does... check it out.

I fully understand the concept of Boeing customer codes, but the point stands. UA 77Ws are not 777-322ER.

E.g.


N2644U is Assigned
Data Updated each Federal Working Day at Midnight

Print This Page Goto New Search Page
Aircraft Description
Serial Number 63724 Status Valid
Manufacturer Name BOEING Certificate Issue Date 06/28/2017
Model 777-300ER Expiration Date 06/30/2020
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Type Engine Turbo-fan

vs.

N641UA is Assigned
Data Updated each Federal Working Day at Midnight

Print This Page Goto New Search Page
Aircraft Description
Serial Number 25091 Status Valid
Manufacturer Name BOEING Certificate Issue Date 03/27/2015
Model 767-322 Expiration Date 03/31/2021
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Type Engine Turbo-fan
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code (base 8 / oct) 52065265
MFR Year 1991 Mode S Code (base 16 / hex) A86AB5
Type Registration Corporation Fractional Owner NO

or


N214UA is Assigned
Data Updated each Federal Working Day at Midnight

Print This Page Goto New Search Page
Aircraft Description
Serial Number 30220 Status Valid
Manufacturer Name BOEING Certificate Issue Date 04/01/2013
Model 777-222 Expiration Date 04/30/2022
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Type Engine Turbo-fan
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code (base 8 / oct) 50345041
MFR Year 2000 Mode S Code (base 16 / hex) A1CA21
Type Registration Corporation Fractional Owner NO


If it was 777 line number 1421 or less it was a 322ER, after that just 300ER. The change occurred in early 2017. Your 777-300ER example was registered in June.


Happy to do the work for you... United’s first 77W:

N2331U has Assigned/Multiple Records
Data Updated each Federal Working Day at Midnight
Print This Page Goto New Search Page
Aircraft Description
Serial Number 62642 Status Valid
Manufacturer Name BOEING Certificate Issue Date 12/21/2016
Model 777-300ER Expiration Date 12/31/2019
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Type Engine Turbo-fan
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code (base 8 / oct) 50413063
MFR Year 2016 Mode S Code (base 16 / hex) A21633
Type Registration

There’s no such thing as a 777-322/ER.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:35 am

At one time, Boeing offered incredible customization in cabin and cockpit design. To the point, the story went at EAL, a crew flying an “interchange” Braniff 727 couldn’t figure out starting as the switches were all different, TWA has all the overhead switches go forward for OFF while everyone else specified forward ON, aft OFF. Bizjets were bizarrely designed by chief pilots.

GF
 
User avatar
7BOEING7
Posts: 3039
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:21 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
TWA has all the overhead switches go forward for OFF while everyone else specified forward ON, aft OFF.
GF


TWA (Two Worlds Apart) was the only US airline with that configuration, called the European Convention, but nowhere near the only airline. Most European airlines were configured that way as well as other airlines, Thai being one of them.
 
User avatar
hOMSaR
Posts: 2186
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:47 am

Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:41 am

gregn21 wrote:
No such thing as a 777-322ER. Boeing hasn’t used customer codes since 2016. UA never took delivery of any 77Ws before that date. 22 was CO’s old customer code which was transferred to UA post merger. Between the 2010 merger and the 2016 discontinuation of customer codes, UA DID take delivery of -x22 aircraft (originally ordered sCO) in addition to -x24 aircraft (originally ordered sUA). Seems like a dumb mistake by whoever used the -322ER identification.


What -x22 coded aircraft did UA receive post merger? IIRC, the only Boeing planes UA had on order at the time of the merger were 787s, which have no customer codes at all.
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
Airplanes don't have isles, they have aisles.
 
User avatar
RobK
Posts: 3613
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:43 pm

Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:05 am

So much duff info in this thread I don't even know where to begin. The codes (officially called the Firing Order Configuration code) are still very much in use internally for the 737 NGs and 767s contrary to what country registers show. There is only 1 737 NG which is sans code and that is the Dutch government BBJ. The 777s have begun the phase out commencing with ln 1575 which is just an 'F' rather than 'FFX' as you would expect. Others without are 1579, 1582, 1583, 1586, 1593, 1594, 1598. All other 777s have their full designation, including the UA frames and this is also evidenced on internal UA documentation. The 747-8s phased out with lns 1542 and 1543 which were originally 747-83QFs for Silk Way but when they went NTU and the orders transferred to UPS with new msn allocations the codes were dropped and the frames became generic 747-8Fs from that point forwards.

The 787s, 737 Max and 777 "NG" are all without a FOC in their model sub.

The listing in XAM2175s post above is factually incorrect. That list was copied from a clueless amateur blogger and has been reposted as fact all over the internet ever since. The lns quoted were simply based on the respective registrations showing as generic models on the FAA register. Whilst it's true that type certificate was simplified to a generic 737-800 model (for example) to make life simplier for the aviation authorities rather than having to certify each new model sub individually, that doesn't mean they've been dropped from use in other applications and indeed Boeing continues to list them on their own documents which is why jet inventory databases like planespotters.net still show them as the data is factually correct.
 
UA444
Posts: 2782
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

Re: Why are UA´s 777-300ER designated as 777-322ERs?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:10 am

UA themselves call them 777-322/ER. So that’s what they are.

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