• 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 340
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 9:01 am

a19901213 wrote:
People need to remember Syd-Mel is second busiest flight path in the world.

It’s one of the most lucrative travel path in one of the most wealthiest countries.

And people need to take in the effect that HSR will help to mitigate of our overcrowded cities. This is a project that can’t be simply judged by pure revenue and cost.

In the long run HSR will definitely bring Australia more benefit. The only thing matters is whether politicians can get it right or not. (NBN)


A most excellent point. We are one of the wealthiest countries on Earth with 2 very large cities within 3.5- 4 hrs apart by HSR.

Imagine being able to live in Canberra and work in Sydney.

We need to be able to think beyond a 3 year electoral cycle.
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1649
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 9:06 am

qantas747 wrote:
We have the land and resources it just needs to happen


Actually, we dont. That corridor passes through dry Australian farmland - where is the water for these massive cities going to come from????

If youre talking about spreading the population, do it within the Wolongong-Canberra-Orange-Newcastle area (for NSW). On the basis of population spreading, you'd be better off going HSR to Brisbane rather than Melbourne and spread the population into the coastal cities that already have significant infrastructure.
 
AsiaTravel
Posts: 315
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 9:28 am

NTLDaz wrote:
a19901213 wrote:
People need to remember Syd-Mel is second busiest flight path in the world.

It’s one of the most lucrative travel path in one of the most wealthiest countries.

And people need to take in the effect that HSR will help to mitigate of our overcrowded cities. This is a project that can’t be simply judged by pure revenue and cost.

In the long run HSR will definitely bring Australia more benefit. The only thing matters is whether politicians can get it right or not. (NBN)


A most excellent point. We are one of the wealthiest countries on Earth with 2 very large cities within 3.5- 4 hrs apart by HSR.

Imagine being able to live in Canberra and work in Sydney.

We need to be able to think beyond a 3 year electoral cycle.


In most countries that have a HSR you don't see people taking them everyday for commuting. The ticket cost is just too high, HSR are really expensive, this is an understatement. Sydney- Canberra is like going between Lyon and Marseille everyday which is a A$100 journey for just above one hour and a half, add 50% to the price because of the cost of living in Australia and that it most likely won't be subsidised.
 
moa999
Posts: 470
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 9:39 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
My question on that is what was the business case for the Madrid-Barcelona route and Spanish HSR in general?

Even if Sydney-Melbourne is unfeasible, a small network around Syndey along the lines of Central-Chatswood-Hornsby-Gosford-Newcastle, Central-Liverpool-Campbelltown-Goulburn-Canberra, and Central-Miranda-Stanwell Tops-Wooloongong(-Nowra?) would have a massive impact on managing population growth, and would also encourage economic development .


It was fairly flimsy and has proven out that way
http://thecorner.eu/spain-economy/doubt ... ble/61716/

One of the reason Spain is one of the 'PIGS' countries causing issues in the Eurozone.

I agree a Newcastle-Canberra-Sydney-Wollongong high speed network is a far more likely proposition, but you'd
A. Need to significantly reduce the number of stops listed above, otherwise the speed drops
B. Need politicians to stop over-subsidising long journeys (latest being Gladys $50 weekly cap.)
 
Ryanair01
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:27 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 10:36 am

moa999 wrote:
And in Europe London-Frankfurt is probably an equivalent pair (both financial centres) at just under 800km.

And there is no direct Eurostar service, you need to change in Brussels, and typical journey time is 5 hours.


I'd say it is an isn't quite an equivalent pair, I wonder if Madrid to Barcelona is more similar? The big difference is far fewer people want to travel between London and Frankfurt. As RyanairGuru mentioned the channel tunnel is also a huge difference, in fact it requires a lot of technical modifications for the trains used (for fire protection), which is the reason that Deutsche Bahn decided not to launch London to Frankfurt trains back in 2011. So even with a smaller market, it was deemed commercially viable but DB didn't have suitable trains.

I'd say Madrid to Barcelona is probably more similar to Sydney-Melbourne/Brisbane, similar distance (all be it a little shorter) and not much by way of settlement in between. I remember back in the 1990s before HSR there were very high frequency shuttle flights between the two cities, now that has really dramatically reduced.

However I just don't see why HSR between the capitals should be a priority? We've got good arrangements via air, yet middle distance travel (like Sydney to Central Coast or Brisbane to Sunshine Coast) is terrible. None the less I do think capital to capital HSR will come one day, because all our political parties seem to see house building and infrastructure building as a way to keep people employed now manufacturing is dead. I 'suspect' eventually they'll run out of other things to build and HSR will come about.
 
Ryanair01
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:27 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 10:54 am

moa999 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
My question on that is what was the business case for the Madrid-Barcelona route and Spanish HSR in general?

Even if Sydney-Melbourne is unfeasible, a small network around Syndey along the lines of Central-Chatswood-Hornsby-Gosford-Newcastle, Central-Liverpool-Campbelltown-Goulburn-Canberra, and Central-Miranda-Stanwell Tops-Wooloongong(-Nowra?) would have a massive impact on managing population growth, and would also encourage economic development .


It was fairly flimsy and has proven out that way
http://thecorner.eu/spain-economy/doubt ... ble/61716/

One of the reason Spain is one of the 'PIGS' countries causing issues in the Eurozone.

I agree a Newcastle-Canberra-Sydney-Wollongong high speed network is a far more likely proposition, but you'd
A. Need to significantly reduce the number of stops listed above, otherwise the speed drops
B. Need politicians to stop over-subsidising long journeys (latest being Gladys $50 weekly cap.)


I've used the Southeastern High Speed commuter service in/out of London a few times. It seems to manage the roughly 100km from Ashford Intl to London in 35-40 minutes with a couple of stops. I'm told they cruise along at about 200kph on average but can make 250kph. I think that model would work OK with the stops quoted. Just remember, the annual ticket cost for a commuter works out at about $13,000 a year, so it ain't cheap!

None the less it must be a better place to start than attacking a perfectly good domestic air system. I wonder if HSR capital to capital backers have worked out what proportion of Australia's domestic air infrastructure is supported by the triangle? Can the remaining routes prop up that overhead without a massive increase in fares? I suspect not.
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 7771
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 11:05 am

Re stops, I specifically said that not all trains should stop at all stations. Newcastle-Sydney as quickly as possible is the ultimate goal, but Sydney Basin is too demographically (and economically) dispersed for all routes to be city centre-city centre. A regional HSR network would be invaluable for reducing commuting times from places like Hornsby, the Shire and (in particular) the South West. While many trains will skip over these stations, necessity says that if there are high speed tracks running through these suburbs then they should be linked into the network.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
aryonoco
Posts: 667
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 1:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 11:13 am

tullamarine wrote:
There is a place for HSR in Australia but it is for shorter journeys such as Melbourne to Geelong or Ballarat or Sydney to Newcastle or Wollongong,


In Victoria, HSR to Geelong, Ballarat and Bendigo makes a lot more economic sense. It will help with population distribution and with overall economic development of the whole state. Also these areas are currently really poorly serviced by air.
 
qantas747
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2000 12:51 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 11:43 am

qf2220 wrote:
qantas747 wrote:
We have the land and resources it just needs to happen


Actually, we dont. That corridor passes through dry Australian farmland - where is the water for these massive cities going to come from????

If youre talking about spreading the population, do it within the Wolongong-Canberra-Orange-Newcastle area (for NSW). On the basis of population spreading, you'd be better off going HSR to Brisbane rather than Melbourne and spread the population into the coastal cities that already have significant infrastructure.


After living in the Murray Darling Basin and studying an environmental science degree, I know all too well the challenges for water availability in that region.

The reality is that the resource does exist and the system is horribly inefficient, mainly due to large scale ag practices and not enough development or investment in more sustainable practices. Solutions do exist, they just threaten the livelihood of big business and this in turn projects fear onto the residents in the area restricting change.
These new areas wont develop overnight, and as some communities are learning the hard way, if they dont change your point becomes reality and there will be nothing left.

A project of this scale has the ability to support multiple sustainable communities and foster change allowing a distribution in population.

How are Sydney and Melbourne going to cope with their water needs when population exceed 5m in both. Quite simply the infrastructure there is over utilised with not much opportunity for growth.

Back to the aviation component a national HSR plan could help to remove some of the regional aviation needs that clog up the main airports. SYD-CBR for one would remove up to 180 weekly flights on small aircraft.
 
Captdasbomb
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:08 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 11:50 am

Flyerqf wrote:
Captdasbomb wrote:
Anyone know why QF9 & 49 got cancelled tonight & why 2 dreamliners repositioned early Saturday morning?


Looks like QF49 is operating. QF9 got cancelled in Perth after operating the leg from MEL so must have been a technical issue.

The positioning flights resulted in QF55 being cancelled. Looks like there was an issue with the aircraft on SYD to HKG, so they positioned one down from BNE.

A bit weird as they positioned an aircraft from Sydney to Melbourne but that has been sitting in Melbourne
 
Captdasbomb
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:08 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 11:57 am

Captdasbomb wrote:
Flyerqf wrote:
Captdasbomb wrote:
Anyone know why QF9 & 49 got cancelled tonight & why 2 dreamliners repositioned early Saturday morning?


Looks like QF49 is operating. QF9 got cancelled in Perth after operating the leg from MEL so must have been a technical issue.

The positioning flights resulted in QF55 being cancelled. Looks like there was an issue with the aircraft on SYD to HKG, so they positioned one down from BNE.

A bit weird as they positioned an aircraft from Sydney to Melbourne but that has been sitting in Melbourne

Apparently ZNG had a bird strike when landing into Perth
 
Ryanair01
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:27 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 12:29 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
Re stops, I specifically said that not all trains should stop at all stations. Newcastle-Sydney as quickly as possible is the ultimate goal, but Sydney Basin is too demographically (and economically) dispersed for all routes to be city centre-city centre. A regional HSR network would be invaluable for reducing commuting times from places like Hornsby, the Shire and (in particular) the South West. While many trains will skip over these stations, necessity says that if there are high speed tracks running through these suburbs then they should be linked into the network.


Exactly. The model you quote already exists and works in the UK, Germany and Japan. Population density around Sydney/Melbourne is not so different from the areas those international lines serve either. You can balance a mixture of stopping and fast trains.

I don't get the intercapital HSR thing though, why hit Australia's successful airline industry at vast tax payer expense, whilst meanwhile we struggle to get across our major cities?
 
CityRail
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:26 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sun May 12, 2019 1:15 pm

I think HSR will not work in Australia because the safety standards and the cost of construction will be prohibitive and it will well exceed the demand.
Unless those towns/cities signed up for HSR catchment will promise to import 1,000,000 migrants into Australia per annum for the next 20 years, I don't think it is economical to build it.
 
DeltaB717
Posts: 1663
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 1:04 am

Captdasbomb wrote:
Flyerqf wrote:
Captdasbomb wrote:
Anyone know why QF9 & 49 got cancelled tonight & why 2 dreamliners repositioned early Saturday morning?


Looks like QF49 is operating. QF9 got cancelled in Perth after operating the leg from MEL so must have been a technical issue.

The positioning flights resulted in QF55 being cancelled. Looks like there was an issue with the aircraft on SYD to HKG, so they positioned one down from BNE.

A bit weird as they positioned an aircraft from Sydney to Melbourne but that has been sitting in Melbourne


ZNA has a centre fuel tank issue which QF had attempted to rectify earlier (replaced a part, I believe), but the fault persisted. So, it positioned down to MEL for attention in the hangar (including access to the fuel tank). ZNA was scheduled to position back to SYD this morning to operate QF127.

ZND was positioned BNE-SYD to cover SYD-HKG, hence QF55/56 we cancelled.

ZND is taxiing as QF127 as I type, so ZNA obviously isn't ready. I imagine if ZNA is ready in time it might position up to BNE later today to take QF55.
 
User avatar
SeaEagle8
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:59 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 1:42 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
Captdasbomb wrote:
Flyerqf wrote:

Looks like QF49 is operating. QF9 got cancelled in Perth after operating the leg from MEL so must have been a technical issue.

The positioning flights resulted in QF55 being cancelled. Looks like there was an issue with the aircraft on SYD to HKG, so they positioned one down from BNE.

A bit weird as they positioned an aircraft from Sydney to Melbourne but that has been sitting in Melbourne


ZNA has a centre fuel tank issue which QF had attempted to rectify earlier (replaced a part, I believe), but the fault persisted. So, it positioned down to MEL for attention in the hangar (including access to the fuel tank). ZNA was scheduled to position back to SYD this morning to operate QF127.

ZND was positioned BNE-SYD to cover SYD-HKG, hence QF55/56 we cancelled.

ZND is taxiing as QF127 as I type, so ZNA obviously isn't ready. I imagine if ZNA is ready in time it might position up to BNE later today to take QF55.


Tonight's QF55 is cancelled as well.
NSW based avgeek
 
Captdasbomb
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:08 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 2:19 am

SeaEagle8 wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
Captdasbomb wrote:
A bit weird as they positioned an aircraft from Sydney to Melbourne but that has been sitting in Melbourne


ZNA has a centre fuel tank issue which QF had attempted to rectify earlier (replaced a part, I believe), but the fault persisted. So, it positioned down to MEL for attention in the hangar (including access to the fuel tank). ZNA was scheduled to position back to SYD this morning to operate QF127.

ZND was positioned BNE-SYD to cover SYD-HKG, hence QF55/56 we cancelled.

ZND is taxiing as QF127 as I type, so ZNA obviously isn't ready. I imagine if ZNA is ready in time it might position up to BNE later today to take QF55.


Tonight's QF55 is cancelled as well.


Think QF55/56 will be a no bueno till ZNG is fixed unless they can free up a 747 which might be tricky as one had engine troubles & landed in Cairns yesterday
 
DeltaB717
Posts: 1663
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 2:29 am

SeaEagle8 wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
Captdasbomb wrote:
A bit weird as they positioned an aircraft from Sydney to Melbourne but that has been sitting in Melbourne


ZNA has a centre fuel tank issue which QF had attempted to rectify earlier (replaced a part, I believe), but the fault persisted. So, it positioned down to MEL for attention in the hangar (including access to the fuel tank). ZNA was scheduled to position back to SYD this morning to operate QF127.

ZND was positioned BNE-SYD to cover SYD-HKG, hence QF55/56 we cancelled.

ZND is taxiing as QF127 as I type, so ZNA obviously isn't ready. I imagine if ZNA is ready in time it might position up to BNE later today to take QF55.


Tonight's QF55 is cancelled as well.


Yep, ZNA is still 'dead' as I was told shortly after my post!
 
Captdasbomb
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:08 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 2:59 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
SeaEagle8 wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:

ZNA has a centre fuel tank issue which QF had attempted to rectify earlier (replaced a part, I believe), but the fault persisted. So, it positioned down to MEL for attention in the hangar (including access to the fuel tank). ZNA was scheduled to position back to SYD this morning to operate QF127.

ZND was positioned BNE-SYD to cover SYD-HKG, hence QF55/56 we cancelled.

ZND is taxiing as QF127 as I type, so ZNA obviously isn't ready. I imagine if ZNA is ready in time it might position up to BNE later today to take QF55.


Tonight's QF55 is cancelled as well.


Yep, ZNA is still 'dead' as I was told shortly after my post!


Would have thought a centre tank issue is no biggie on the SYD -HK-BNE with them being short flights
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 8613
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 3:43 am

Captdasbomb wrote:
SeaEagle8 wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:

ZNA has a centre fuel tank issue which QF had attempted to rectify earlier (replaced a part, I believe), but the fault persisted. So, it positioned down to MEL for attention in the hangar (including access to the fuel tank). ZNA was scheduled to position back to SYD this morning to operate QF127.

ZND was positioned BNE-SYD to cover SYD-HKG, hence QF55/56 we cancelled.

ZND is taxiing as QF127 as I type, so ZNA obviously isn't ready. I imagine if ZNA is ready in time it might position up to BNE later today to take QF55.


Tonight's QF55 is cancelled as well.


Think QF55/56 will be a no bueno till ZNG is fixed unless they can free up a 747 which might be tricky as one had engine troubles & landed in Cairns yesterday


ZNG has returned to service and has just touched down at LHR
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
SeaEagle8
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:59 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 3:45 am

[threeid][/threeid]
Captdasbomb wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
SeaEagle8 wrote:

Tonight's QF55 is cancelled as well.


Yep, ZNA is still 'dead' as I was told shortly after my post!


Would have thought a centre tank issue is no biggie on the SYD -HK-BNE with them being short flights


Yes but QF55 is BNE-LAX.
NSW based avgeek
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 8613
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 4:02 am

Qantas to launch “Points Plane”, a concept where a whole aircraft is dedicated for FF to redeem points, the first will be the A388 scheduled on MEL-NRT on 21 October

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-opens-u ... ource=hero
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 8613
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 4:26 am

Royal Brunei delays start of BNE by a month citing operational reasons

https://blueswandaily.com/royal-brunei- ... -jul-2019/
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2356
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 4:38 am

I am guessing they are wanting confirmation from the QLD govt. that they will still get their aviation marketing funds which the govt has back flipped on after the sharia rule PR fracas last month. Either that or the forward loads ex BNE were really bad.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 8613
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 5:21 am

Virgin currently experiencing an IT outage at check in counters around the country, some delays are being experienced

https://twitter.com/VirginAustralia/sta ... 28512?s=20
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
SeaEagle8
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:59 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 5:22 am

qf789 wrote:
Royal Brunei delays start of BNE by a month citing operational reasons

https://blueswandaily.com/royal-brunei- ... -jul-2019/


That's a very informative article. How vague.
To delay a startup only 4 weeks from launch is a pretty late change. It's only a month though.
NSW based avgeek
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1649
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 5:23 am

qf789 wrote:
Qantas to launch “Points Plane”, a concept where a whole aircraft is dedicated for FF to redeem points, the first will be the A388 scheduled on MEL-NRT on 21 October

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-opens-u ... ource=hero


Fascinating development. Perhaps indicative that QF has seen that there has been perceived value loss in the current scheme and is looking to give back some value (but only to those who have the freedom to go to Tokyo on that particular day). Also a good way to burn some of that unearned FFP revenue off the balance sheet. If fully sold that is about 21m FFPs that will be redeemed. Now i don't know what the value of a point is to Qantas when redeemed (and a quick googling isn't throwing anything up) but based on some old figures in the back of my mind (0.01 cents per point) thats about 200k of revenue for them. Happy to be corrected on this.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2102
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 5:43 am

qf2220 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Qantas to launch “Points Plane”, a concept where a whole aircraft is dedicated for FF to redeem points, the first will be the A388 scheduled on MEL-NRT on 21 October

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-opens-u ... ource=hero


Fascinating development. Perhaps indicative that QF has seen that there has been perceived value loss in the current scheme and is looking to give back some value (but only to those who have the freedom to go to Tokyo on that particular day). Also a good way to burn some of that unearned FFP revenue off the balance sheet. If fully sold that is about 21m FFPs that will be redeemed. Now i don't know what the value of a point is to Qantas when redeemed (and a quick googling isn't throwing anything up) but based on some old figures in the back of my mind (0.01 cents per point) thats about 200k of revenue for them. Happy to be corrected on this.

It is a way to monetize what would otherwise be a revenue-free repositioning flight. I wouldn't see it as a regular thing because airlines tend to avoid having flights that only have FF redemptions onboard.(The US airlines got themselves into real issues here when they first introduced FF schemes with heaps of Hawaii flights generating no cash).

It will be interesting to see what sort of fares these travellers end up having to pay for the return sector; the cynic in me suggests QF will have seen a way to generate some extra cash on the flipside. It will probably work out cheaper abandoning QF on the return flight and doing a one-stop through Taiwan, Hong Kong or Singapore.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 8613
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 6:02 am

tullamarine wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Qantas to launch “Points Plane”, a concept where a whole aircraft is dedicated for FF to redeem points, the first will be the A388 scheduled on MEL-NRT on 21 October

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-opens-u ... ource=hero


Fascinating development. Perhaps indicative that QF has seen that there has been perceived value loss in the current scheme and is looking to give back some value (but only to those who have the freedom to go to Tokyo on that particular day). Also a good way to burn some of that unearned FFP revenue off the balance sheet. If fully sold that is about 21m FFPs that will be redeemed. Now i don't know what the value of a point is to Qantas when redeemed (and a quick googling isn't throwing anything up) but based on some old figures in the back of my mind (0.01 cents per point) thats about 200k of revenue for them. Happy to be corrected on this.

It is a way to monetize what would otherwise be a revenue-free repositioning flight. I wouldn't see it as a regular thing because airlines tend to avoid having flights that only have FF redemptions onboard.(The US airlines got themselves into real issues here when they first introduced FF schemes with heaps of Hawaii flights generating no cash).

It will be interesting to see what sort of fares these travellers end up having to pay for the return sector; the cynic in me suggests QF will have seen a way to generate some extra cash on the flipside. It will probably work out cheaper abandoning QF on the return flight and doing a one-stop through Taiwan, Hong Kong or Singapore.


From the QF Press Release

For returning passengers

To maximise flexibility on return travel, members have the choice of booking on an A330 return Points Plane on October 26th or depart on an alternative date of their choice by booking a Classic Reward seat with Qantas or a partner airline, or using Points Plus Pay on any commercially available seat.


The flight will also have a different inflight service

The inaugural Points Plane will also have a distinctive inflight service with special on-board experiences including a bespoke cocktail and meal service, signature pyjamas and inflight giveaways.


https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... demptions/
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1649
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 7:15 am

tullamarine wrote:
It is a way to monetize what would otherwise be a revenue-free repositioning flight. I wouldn't see it as a regular thing because airlines tend to avoid having flights that only have FF redemptions onboard.(The US airlines got themselves into real issues here when they first introduced FF schemes with heaps of Hawaii flights generating no cash).

It will be interesting to see what sort of fares these travellers end up having to pay for the return sector; the cynic in me suggests QF will have seen a way to generate some extra cash on the flipside. It will probably work out cheaper abandoning QF on the return flight and doing a one-stop through Taiwan, Hong Kong or Singapore.


QF has had many one sided flights when it has delivered aircraft to Victorville to be parked - they'd sell the seats full to LAX but not have a return flight that day, which given it was published well in advance it was taken into account when pax were booking and they'd simply pick another date (or a routing via BNE/MEL/SYD to get home).

The other thing is that these are indeed revenue generating flights. Simply distilled (I'm sure many of us get the detail), when points awarded to passengers, either some of the ticket value or the total paid by the points grantor (eg credit card companies) to QF is held on balance sheet until the points are redeemed. QF doesn't recognise the revenue until the points are used - they represent a future service obligation, or unearned revenue. Its more or less just like paying QF in advance for your flight. So in this situation, QF will vacuum 21m of points from the liability account - frequent flier points on issue, to the revenue account - passenger revenue, which will finally take the point sale to the income statement.
 
gpasternak
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:28 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 8:45 am

Anyone know why the majority of Virgin flights were delayed (some cancelled) out of BNE today? Doesn't seem weather related as QF seemed to run on time.
Next flights: MKY-BNE-MKY
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 5228
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 8:47 am

gpasternak wrote:
Anyone know why the majority of Virgin flights were delayed (some cancelled) out of BNE today? Doesn't seem weather related as QF seemed to run on time.


qf789 wrote:
Virgin currently experiencing an IT outage at check in counters around the country, some delays are being experienced

https://twitter.com/VirginAustralia/sta ... 28512?s=20


V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
getluv
Posts: 454
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Mon May 13, 2019 12:07 pm

AFR are reporting that VA is preparing to sell the rest of Velocity.

https://www.afr.com/business/transport/ ... 513-p51mn9
I'm that bad type.
 
getluv
Posts: 454
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 1:42 am

Considering what AC did to Aeroplan, I'm sure many investors would be very hesitant to go near Velocity, unless there was a clause preventing VA from starting a competing frequent flyer program. Velocity has been under performing compared to Qantas Loyalty and I understand why Scurrah is keen to explore selling it. Personally, I think its a mistake as it is probably the only part of the business bringing value to VA at the moment, and it wouldn't take a lot to kill off VA.

It is obvious that Scurrah is keen to clear debt. I'm sure job cuts aren't far away as well.
I'm that bad type.
 
F100Flyer
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:50 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 2:11 am

QF44 DPS-SYD diverted to Broome overnight due to the autopilot disengaging during flight:

https://thewest.com.au/news/aviation/qa ... 881198138z

Maybe the first ever visit of an A332 to BME?

Edit: After actually reading the article properly, it's said to be the largest aircraft to ever visit.
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 502
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 2:20 am

F100Flyer wrote:
QF44 DPS-SYD diverted to Broome overnight due to the autopilot disengaging during flight:

https://thewest.com.au/news/aviation/qa ... 881198138z

Maybe the first ever visit of an A332 to BME?

Edit: After actually reading the article properly, it's said to be the largest aircraft to ever visit.


Not a bad place to divert to....
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2356
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 2:51 am

I'm not sure how many job cuts VA can make, although they could outsource the check-in function again. As for Virgin Village in BNE, that place already has high turnover and staff are paid less than QF.
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 7771
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 3:03 am

eta unknown wrote:
I'm not sure how many job cuts VA can make, although they could outsource the check-in function again. As for Virgin Village in BNE, that place already has high turnover and staff are paid less than QF.


Agreed, VA is a very lean operation from a workforce perspective which means there isn't a lot of fat to trim there. This is one reason why it is surprising how small the cost gap between VA and QF is these days. QF have a lot more in-sourced positions, such as airport service and maintenance, and their cost of employment is higher than VA across pretty much every position in the company (note I said cost of employment rather than salary, although for pretty much everyone apart from the pilots salary is higher at QF). This indicates that VA does have a lot of scope to reduce costs, as they must be chronically inefficient somewhere else to whittle away the employment cost advantage.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
User avatar
CraigAnderson
Posts: 255
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 4:20 am

AFR link to rumoured Velocity sell-off story is paywalled, alternative at https://www.ausbt.com.au/is-virgin-aust ... ource=hero, apparently VFF could be worth around $2bn, I can see how that would be tempting for Scurrah even though Virgin only owns 65% of VFF now it's still a massive 'quick fix'. The thing is, what would Virgin do with that much money to ensure they don't just burn through it like JB kept doing each time he was bailed out?
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2356
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 4:38 am

Well for starters the damage JB did, IMHO, was self inflicted. And although the new CEO doesn't have an airline background, he does seem to be displaying some basic common sense that eluded JB.
 
zkncj
Posts: 3198
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 4:54 am

eta unknown wrote:
I'm not sure how many job cuts VA can make, although they could outsource the check-in function again. As for Virgin Village in BNE, that place already has high turnover and staff are paid less than QF.


Well they could fully automate check-in and boarding at mayor ports - although think VA probably would lack the capex required to setup any change for this (or of course would have to end up leasing/renting equipment from an airport company).

They could try get CASA to allow them to operate the 738s with an the more global 1-50 ratio rather than 1-36 ratio - but then again would probably be an likely expensive option to try get approved.
 
User avatar
SCFlyer
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 4:57 am

To be a little fair to JB, some decisions e.g. the HKG flights were at the behest of certain shareholders (e.g HNA) due to bilateral at the other end being full.

This is in addition to inheriting a mixed fleet from BG (the 77Ws and Embraers were under BG's watch). However the purchasing of ATR's in conjunction with XR before parking them due to "problens" was largely a JB stuff up.
 
redroo
Posts: 491
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 6:49 am

zkncj wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
I'm not sure how many job cuts VA can make, although they could outsource the check-in function again. As for Virgin Village in BNE, that place already has high turnover and staff are paid less than QF.


Well they could fully automate check-in and boarding at mayor ports - although think VA probably would lack the capex required to setup any change for this (or of course would have to end up leasing/renting equipment from an airport company).

They could try get CASA to allow them to operate the 738s with an the more global 1-50 ratio rather than 1-36 ratio - but then again would probably be an likely expensive option to try get approved.


There’s always way more ground crew around gates than at QF gates. QF crew also do boarding at gate. Don’t think virgin do? Always fat to cut.
 
smi0006
Posts: 2233
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 7:00 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
F100Flyer wrote:
QF44 DPS-SYD diverted to Broome overnight due to the autopilot disengaging during flight:

https://thewest.com.au/news/aviation/qa ... 881198138z

Maybe the first ever visit of an A332 to BME?

Edit: After actually reading the article properly, it's said to be the largest aircraft to ever visit.


Not a bad place to divert to....


Love a good conspiracy- wasn’t that where the QF72 had their autopilot glitch and the aircraft went into a dive injuring a number of crew and pax? Wasn’t there some weird theory going about at the time of navel or Air Force radar interference? I’ll do some digging unless anyone else recalls.

Updated - it was considered potential interference from the Harold Holt joint US/AU naval communication installation near Exmouth. However no cause was determined and Investigators found interference from the station unlikely. For those interested interesting history of the base back to the 60s but continuing into the 20s moving forward.
 
Boof
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 8:51 am

eta unknown wrote:
I'm not sure how many job cuts VA can make, although they could outsource the check-in function again. As for Virgin Village in BNE, that place already has high turnover and staff are paid less than QF.


I’m surprised that the costs VA carry are so high given how lean they operate. Could it be the lease costs of the fleet are high given they would be a higher risk than other comparable airlines? Surely the credit rating isn’t great?

There is/was whispers that TT might be wound down/shut a few weeks back as they are a distant fourth in the current four brands that operate under the duopoly. That would save on the duplicated costs the VA group have.

I wonder how much, if any, VA pay SQ to use the TT brand given they owned the Tiger branding? Or does anyone know if that’s been handed to TT as the other Tiger brands are folded into Scoot?

The Virgin brand and license fees aren’t cheap either from memory but not sure if they still pay them and if they do how much VA currently pay Virgin group for this.

zkncj wrote:
They could try get CASA to allow them to operate the 738s with an the more global 1-50 ratio rather than 1-36 ratio - but then again would probably be an likely expensive option to try get approved.


VA have had this for years (so do QF, JQ & TT although it was revoked for a while for TT when they had problems). CASA grant it via legislative measure to override the existing rules. The 1:50 ratio will come fully into effect in 2021.

VA’s approval is here: https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2018L00796
Bring back Virgin Blue!
 
User avatar
Velocity7
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 10:36 am

Boof wrote:

The Virgin brand and license fees aren’t cheap either from memory but not sure if they still pay them and if they do how much VA currently pay Virgin group for this.


I've always been curious about the royalty costs on what to me is a name that doesn't resonate well with anyone born in the last 25 years. VA could rebrand and I don't think the "Virgin" name would be greatly missed. It's just not a brand that I am highly attached too. If anything it feels bit tawdry and past its use by date. Keen to hear what others think.
 
SYDSpotter
Posts: 770
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:10 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 11:04 am

Boof wrote:
I wonder how much, if any, VA pay SQ to use the TT brand given they owned the Tiger branding? Or does anyone know if that’s been handed to TT as the other Tiger brands are folded into Scoot?

The Virgin brand and license fees aren’t cheap either from memory but not sure if they still pay them and if they do how much VA currently pay Virgin group for this.



VA paid $1.9m in 2018 for use of the Tigerair brand.

In terms of the royalty paid to Virgin, this is no longer disclosed in the financials. 2013 was the last time this was disclosed and they paid $18m that year (assumed to be roughly 0.5% of sales).

https://www.afr.com/business/transport/ ... 129-1316we
319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W_788_789
 
kriskim
Posts: 361
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:44 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 1:51 pm

Velocity7 wrote:
Boof wrote:

The Virgin brand and license fees aren’t cheap either from memory but not sure if they still pay them and if they do how much VA currently pay Virgin group for this.


I've always been curious about the royalty costs on what to me is a name that doesn't resonate well with anyone born in the last 25 years. VA could rebrand and I don't think the "Virgin" name would be greatly missed. It's just not a brand that I am highly attached too. If anything it feels bit tawdry and past its use by date. Keen to hear what others think.


The 'Virgin' name is dying in Australia, Virgin Mobile was the latest of the big ones to go, what's left is Virgin Australia, Virgin Active and Virgin Money.

Maybe a new 'one word' name, Australian's don't call the company Virgin Australia, they shorten it to 'Virgin', same with Tigerair, its typically "I'm flying with Tiger".
A world built upon connectivity.
 
User avatar
CraigAnderson
Posts: 255
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 11:12 pm

I always thought that JB swooping in to buy Tiger was a strange move. Yes it effectively mirrored the two-airline strategy of Qantas, but I never felt the very bottom end of the domestic travel market was large enough to sustain both Jetstar and Tiger, not when LCC margins are slim to start with. And Tiger has an even worse reputation than Jetstar.

It was yet another example of JB wanting to do what Qantas was doing, although this time doing it 'his' way because it's been well-documented how we wanted JQ to be a lot smaller than it was, compared to Joyce's vision and what JQ became. It was as if JB bought Tiger simply to have his own LCC and to stop JQ owning the market. I felt a smarter move would have been to say "Hey, those travellers who want the cheapest possible fares? They're not worth chasing" or "Let's create a low-cost Economy Basic fare down the back of our jets, sell a few dozen of those on each flight".

If Scurrah scrapped Tiger I reckon it would be a smart and strategic move. A lot of money saved right away, and one less distraction from the main game.
 
redroo
Posts: 491
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 11:19 pm

Velocity7 wrote:
Boof wrote:

The Virgin brand and license fees aren’t cheap either from memory but not sure if they still pay them and if they do how much VA currently pay Virgin group for this.


I've always been curious about the royalty costs on what to me is a name that doesn't resonate well with anyone born in the last 25 years. VA could rebrand and I don't think the "Virgin" name would be greatly missed. It's just not a brand that I am highly attached too. If anything it feels bit tawdry and past its use by date. Keen to hear what others think.


I will say it again, cause it’s worth bringing out of the cupboard - virgin (as a brand) is like your drunk auntie cracking onto your teenage mates at the family bbq. She has seen better days and all the red lipstick, flair, romance is a bit sad and cringe worthy.

If they rebranded tomorrow. It would not be missed. They had a strong brand 20 years ago but they don’t have one now. The brand hasn’t really changed.
 
redroo
Posts: 491
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Tue May 14, 2019 11:20 pm

Velocity7 wrote:
Boof wrote:

The Virgin brand and license fees aren’t cheap either from memory but not sure if they still pay them and if they do how much VA currently pay Virgin group for this.


I've always been curious about the royalty costs on what to me is a name that doesn't resonate well with anyone born in the last 25 years. VA could rebrand and I don't think the "Virgin" name would be greatly missed. It's just not a brand that I am highly attached too. If anything it feels bit tawdry and past its use by date. Keen to hear what others think.


I will say it again, cause it’s worth bringing out of the cupboard - virgin (as a brand) is like your drunk auntie cracking onto your teenage mates at the family bbq. She has seen better days and all the red lipstick, flair, romance is a bit sad and cringe worthy.

If they rebranded tomorrow. It would not be missed. They had a strong brand 20 years ago but they don’t have one now. The brand hasn’t really changed.
  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos