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edealinfo
Posts: 1336
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 12:58 am

devmapper wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
avier wrote:

AI is structured in a way where they never make any money even in the best of times. At most a breakeven operating margin, probably once in the last decade, but nothing more than that.
When professionally run airlines are struggling to have decent margins, what can one expect from one of the most inefficient and loss making company amongst the public sector units and also of the country.


Hasn’t Air India Express made money for several years? What differentiates it from its parent? Couldn’t the Government sell off AIX Spears from its parent? At least that one may find buyers


IX leases about 20-25 737's and utilizes multiple point-to-point flights to keep average utilization of its frames above 12 hours a day. Plus, being a relatively new entity, it does not have any significant pension obligations. It also helps that maintenance is outsourced to operators in the Gulf. AI on the other hand, foolishly bought 50 widebody jets (15 77W, 8 77L and 27 788) which it had to pay upfront for, especially considering AI has never been a large enough airline to be able to justify such a large fleet. Essentially, AI spent all its money and borrowed heavily to buy the frames, which left nothing to pay for the maintenance contracts and spares. That triggered another round of borrowing to meet its operational expenses. All this, in the 2000's when air travel was generally slow due to the terrorism and financial crises, means that AI today has such a large debt burden, it probably pays more to service the debt than to actually run itself. We'll know if this is true once the books are published end of June. Add to this the debt and the problems it inherited from absorbing IC along with its aging fleet, and its inability to borrow money from the international market with lower financing costs, alongside the GOI's insistence that it pay the interest to the banks first, inevitably leads to a situation where AI cannot meet its obligations from internal accruals. Consider this, why has AI, with all its problems, never been in the news for not paying back its loans, while IT and 9W went under?

The last GOI thought they could sell off AI as is, but they were proven wrong. The new GOI is trying to do split the airline into a "good" airline and a "bad" airline and sell it in parts. I hope they succeed, because anyone buying AI has a lot of working paring down the fleet (there aren't enough current and potential destinations to ever need 27 788s) and planning for the future (the 15 77Ws that could form the backbone for a very profitable North American market are nearly 10 years old on average, they'll need replacement in 2 years and resale values will not be good for these frames). They need to strategically cut their losses in the domestic market, and look to optimize arrival and departure banks to better facilitate connecting via DEL.

Thank you for deep and thoughtful analysis. Very insightful and nicely summarized. Much appreciated!
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1336
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 12:59 am

devmapper wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
avier wrote:

AI is structured in a way where they never make any money even in the best of times. At most a breakeven operating margin, probably once in the last decade, but nothing more than that.
When professionally run airlines are struggling to have decent margins, what can one expect from one of the most inefficient and loss making company amongst the public sector units and also of the country.


Hasn’t Air India Express made money for several years? What differentiates it from its parent? Couldn’t the Government sell off AIX Spears from its parent? At least that one may find buyers


IX leases about 20-25 737's and utilizes multiple point-to-point flights to keep average utilization of its frames above 12 hours a day. Plus, being a relatively new entity, it does not have any significant pension obligations. It also helps that maintenance is outsourced to operators in the Gulf. AI on the other hand, foolishly bought 50 widebody jets (15 77W, 8 77L and 27 788) which it had to pay upfront for, especially considering AI has never been a large enough airline to be able to justify such a large fleet. Essentially, AI spent all its money and borrowed heavily to buy the frames, which left nothing to pay for the maintenance contracts and spares. That triggered another round of borrowing to meet its operational expenses. All this, in the 2000's when air travel was generally slow due to the terrorism and financial crises, means that AI today has such a large debt burden, it probably pays more to service the debt than to actually run itself. We'll know if this is true once the books are published end of June. Add to this the debt and the problems it inherited from absorbing IC along with its aging fleet, and its inability to borrow money from the international market with lower financing costs, alongside the GOI's insistence that it pay the interest to the banks first, inevitably leads to a situation where AI cannot meet its obligations from internal accruals. Consider this, why has AI, with all its problems, never been in the news for not paying back its loans, while IT and 9W went under?

The last GOI thought they could sell off AI as is, but they were proven wrong. The new GOI is trying to do split the airline into a "good" airline and a "bad" airline and sell it in parts. I hope they succeed, because anyone buying AI has a lot of working paring down the fleet (there aren't enough current and potential destinations to ever need 27 788s) and planning for the future (the 15 77Ws that could form the backbone for a very profitable North American market are nearly 10 years old on average, they'll need replacement in 2 years and resale values will not be good for these frames). They need to strategically cut their losses in the domestic market, and look to optimize arrival and departure banks to better facilitate connecting via DEL.

Thank you for deep and thoughtful analysis. Very insightful and nicely summarized. Much appreciated!
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1336
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 1:15 am

SpiceJet to get 8 more ex-jet B 737 in the next 2 weeks, taking its tally to 30 ex-jet planes in 45 days. All these 30 ex-Jet planes are on a 24 month lease.


https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 14188.html
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1336
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 1:21 am

Indigo to switch from Pratt & Whitney engines to CFM engines; order to be announced at Paris Air show.

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 044_1.html
 
ameya
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:46 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 3:16 am

Indian aviation could be heading into another cycle of overcapacity and that is bad news for airlines

Charts and full article on the link

From hyper growth to negative growth, the last eight months have been a rollercoaster for Indian aviation. Capacity induction, led by IndiGo, had fuelled a 20 percent growth in passenger numbers, commensurate with the Available Seat Kilometers (ASK) growth each month. Buoyed by cheaper fares, airline after airline pushed for greater occupancy.
The collapse of Jet Airways has often been partially blamed on too much capacity being dumped in the Indian market. It has become a vicious cycle where quick induction of aircraft leads to over capacity in the market. This capacity has to be filled and to stimulate the market and attract passengers, airlines at times sell seats at low fares. While this generates demand and helps fill up the planes and increase load factors, seldom are such mechanisms profitable in the long run.
 
unnayan
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:57 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 4:36 am

AI IRROPS at LHR.. Consecutive 2 days flights to BOM delayed...

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 567999.cms
 
voxkel
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:17 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 1:05 pm

Looks like AI SFO-DEL is sometimes stopping in RKT. I suppose an 18.5hr flight is pushing the limits on even the 77L. I think this flight by time is actually longer than EWR-SIN.

It would be interesting to see how the economy experience is on a 19hr nonstop AIr India flight :lol: .
 
JOYA380B747
Posts: 768
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:31 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 1:09 pm

UK is inducting an all-Y A32N from Wow air (TF-NEO), already painted in UK colors. Wonder which route(s) will this be used.

https://www.instagram.com/p/ByE4Yg0hZkS ... 42zqt6a1uu
India's biggest loss w.r.t global aviation (so far) - Being an Australasia-Europe stopover.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1336
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 1:25 pm

JOYA380B747 wrote:
UK is inducting an all-Y A32N from Wow air (TF-NEO), already painted in UK colors. Wonder which route(s) will this be used.

https://www.instagram.com/p/ByE4Yg0hZkS ... 42zqt6a1uu

It looks like Vistara is joining SpiceJet in the free for all contest to add capacity. Not bad. If you can’t win ‘em, join ‘em. Go Vistara! Don’t let the second big bully grab all the BOM slots.
 
hohd
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Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 1:39 pm

ameya wrote:
Indian aviation could be heading into another cycle of overcapacity and that is bad news for airlines

Charts and full article on the link

From hyper growth to negative growth, the last eight months have been a rollercoaster for Indian aviation. Capacity induction, led by IndiGo, had fuelled a 20 percent growth in passenger numbers, commensurate with the Available Seat Kilometers (ASK) growth each month. Buoyed by cheaper fares, airline after airline pushed for greater occupancy.
The collapse of Jet Airways has often been partially blamed on too much capacity being dumped in the Indian market. It has become a vicious cycle where quick induction of aircraft leads to over capacity in the market. This capacity has to be filled and to stimulate the market and attract passengers, airlines at times sell seats at low fares. While this generates demand and helps fill up the planes and increase load factors, seldom are such mechanisms profitable in the long run.


Jet's demise offered a brief respite for Indian carriers to raise fares, but another round of capacity increases has diminished this effect. There is merit in offering increased services to/from BOM, but there was no urgent need to increase capacity on other sectors.

Also the constant increase in loads but at low fares is causing strains at the airport and air traffic controls and this calls for another round of airport expansions. May be airports have to impose higher fees on airlines on airport use for domestic sectors to keep capacity increase in line with demand at profitable prices.
 
yashk
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 1:50 pm

voxkel wrote:
Looks like AI SFO-DEL is sometimes stopping in RKT. I suppose an 18.5hr flight is pushing the limits on even the 77L. I think this flight by time is actually longer than EWR-SIN.

It would be interesting to see how the economy experience is on a 19hr nonstop AIr India flight :lol: .


AI is making a stop when the 77W subs in. 77L is always non-stop
 
VTCIE
Posts: 293
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 2:03 pm

SQ to fly the new A380 to DEL throughout August, then to BOM from September. https://onemileatatime.com/singapore-ai ... 380-india/
In grieving remembrance of the thousands of people who lost their lives on ET-AVJ, PK-LQP, XA-UHZ, S2-AGU, CP-2933, SU-GCC, EI-ETJ, D-AIPX, PK-AXC, 9M-MRD, VT-AXV and above all 9M-MRO, besides many more. Your deaths are not in vain. Safety first, always.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7069
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 2:52 pm

So, who is/are next CA minister(s). Looks like Jayant Sinha got the boot from the cabinet. There are conflicting reports about Suresh Prabhu.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1026
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 2:54 pm

ameya wrote:
Indian aviation could be heading into another cycle of overcapacity and that is bad news for airlines

Charts and full article on the link

From hyper growth to negative growth, the last eight months have been a rollercoaster for Indian aviation. Capacity induction, led by IndiGo, had fuelled a 20 percent growth in passenger numbers, commensurate with the Available Seat Kilometers (ASK) growth each month. Buoyed by cheaper fares, airline after airline pushed for greater occupancy.
The collapse of Jet Airways has often been partially blamed on too much capacity being dumped in the Indian market. It has become a vicious cycle where quick induction of aircraft leads to over capacity in the market. This capacity has to be filled and to stimulate the market and attract passengers, airlines at times sell seats at low fares. While this generates demand and helps fill up the planes and increase load factors, seldom are such mechanisms profitable in the long run.


And this is why the first come first serve policy was dumb. I still can't understand why people would think this was the best policy. They should have released half the slots and then let things shake out. Allowed airlines to make real plans and then picked routes that added to the portfolio of cities that were connected to BOM. Mark my word the number of city pairs connected to BOM will go down and capacity on trunk routes (like BOM-DEL/BLR/CCU) will go up. Yields will go further down. Plus airlines leased aircraft on the rush. Paid what ever rates and took aircraft/engine types they aren't familiar with - which raises costs. Great policy! Masterstroke. This is what crony capitalism gets you.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 3:25 pm

hohd wrote:
ameya wrote:
Indian aviation could be heading into another cycle of overcapacity and that is bad news for airlines

Charts and full article on the link

From hyper growth to negative growth, the last eight months have been a rollercoaster for Indian aviation. Capacity induction, led by IndiGo, had fuelled a 20 percent growth in passenger numbers, commensurate with the Available Seat Kilometers (ASK) growth each month. Buoyed by cheaper fares, airline after airline pushed for greater occupancy.
The collapse of Jet Airways has often been partially blamed on too much capacity being dumped in the Indian market. It has become a vicious cycle where quick induction of aircraft leads to over capacity in the market. This capacity has to be filled and to stimulate the market and attract passengers, airlines at times sell seats at low fares. While this generates demand and helps fill up the planes and increase load factors, seldom are such mechanisms profitable in the long run.


Jet's demise offered a brief respite for Indian carriers to raise fares, but another round of capacity increases has diminished this effect. There is merit in offering increased services to/from BOM, but there was no urgent need to increase capacity on other sectors.

Also the constant increase in loads but at low fares is causing strains at the airport and air traffic controls and this calls for another round of airport expansions. May be airports have to impose higher fees on airlines on airport use for domestic sectors to keep capacity increase in line with demand at profitable prices.

Facinating link that doesn't understand a growth industry.

In January, 1.42*10^11 ASK is too much
1.29*10^11 ASK in February is too little in low season.

Assuming the market continues to grow at 20%, that means India needs more than 1.55*10^11 ask in December.

The market should be under-served in 2019 assuming that chart is accurate for growth from ameya's link (quoted).

So unless the India economy really slows, the market is OK in 2019.

Lightsaber

Late edit:. My worst case estimate of India growth is 12%. So as long as ASK stays below 1.52*10^11 (average of too much and too little *1.12), which looks certain, the market is going to be fine.
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 3:32 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
ameya wrote:
Indian aviation could be heading into another cycle of overcapacity and that is bad news for airlines

Charts and full article on the link

From hyper growth to negative growth, the last eight months have been a rollercoaster for Indian aviation. Capacity induction, led by IndiGo, had fuelled a 20 percent growth in passenger numbers, commensurate with the Available Seat Kilometers (ASK) growth each month. Buoyed by cheaper fares, airline after airline pushed for greater occupancy.
The collapse of Jet Airways has often been partially blamed on too much capacity being dumped in the Indian market. It has become a vicious cycle where quick induction of aircraft leads to over capacity in the market. This capacity has to be filled and to stimulate the market and attract passengers, airlines at times sell seats at low fares. While this generates demand and helps fill up the planes and increase load factors, seldom are such mechanisms profitable in the long run.


And this is why the first come first serve policy was dumb. I still can't understand why people would think this was the best policy. They should have released half the slots and then let things shake out. Allowed airlines to make real plans and then picked routes that added to the portfolio of cities that were connected to BOM. Mark my word the number of city pairs connected to BOM will go down and capacity on trunk routes (like BOM-DEL/BLR/CCU) will go up. Yields will go further down. Plus airlines leased aircraft on the rush. Paid what ever rates and took aircraft/engine types they aren't familiar with - which raises costs. Great policy! Masterstroke. This is what crony capitalism gets you.

Agree with what you say but when crony capitalism is not going away, you eat or get eaten. If SpiceJet got all the BOM slots , things would have gone even worse for the other carriers, such as Vistara.

Jet’s collapse naturally favored SpiceJet that was operating the same aircraft. The Government could have framed rules to have ensured that slots could have been allocated in a fair manner as and when aircraft received their normal deliveries. But it couldn’t handle the temporary price spike during the election season and so we have a chaotic situation wherein it is truly a free for all.

I still think Vistara should go all in for the BOM slots regardless of aircraft type. As I said, it is better than to be eaten alive. (New Bombay airport will never come close to Mumbai airport as a preferred flying option for the wealthy)
 
CaliguyNYC
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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 4:30 pm

lightsaber wrote:
hohd wrote:
ameya wrote:
Indian aviation could be heading into another cycle of overcapacity and that is bad news for airlines

Charts and full article on the link

From hyper growth to negative growth, the last eight months have been a rollercoaster for Indian aviation. Capacity induction, led by IndiGo, had fuelled a 20 percent growth in passenger numbers, commensurate with the Available Seat Kilometers (ASK) growth each month. Buoyed by cheaper fares, airline after airline pushed for greater occupancy.
The collapse of Jet Airways has often been partially blamed on too much capacity being dumped in the Indian market. It has become a vicious cycle where quick induction of aircraft leads to over capacity in the market. This capacity has to be filled and to stimulate the market and attract passengers, airlines at times sell seats at low fares. While this generates demand and helps fill up the planes and increase load factors, seldom are such mechanisms profitable in the long run.


Jet's demise offered a brief respite for Indian carriers to raise fares, but another round of capacity increases has diminished this effect. There is merit in offering increased services to/from BOM, but there was no urgent need to increase capacity on other sectors.

Also the constant increase in loads but at low fares is causing strains at the airport and air traffic controls and this calls for another round of airport expansions. May be airports have to impose higher fees on airlines on airport use for domestic sectors to keep capacity increase in line with demand at profitable prices.

Facinating link that doesn't understand a growth industry.

In January, 1.42*10^11 ASK is too much
1.29*10^11 ASK in February is too little in low season.

Assuming the market continues to grow at 20%, that means India needs more than 1.55*10^11 ask in December.

The market should be under-served in 2019 assuming that chart is accurate for growth from ameya's link (quoted).

So unless the India economy really slows, the market is OK in 2019.

Lightsaber

Late edit:. My worst case estimate of India growth is 12%. So as long as ASK stays below 1.52*10^11 (average of too much and too little *1.12), which looks certain, the market is going to be fine.


But Lightsaber how are you estimating growth. Aviation might be growing at say 20% with prices 10% below cost. What would Indian aviation grow at with airfare 10% over cost (or whatever is a fair margin). Indian carriers are screwed both ways. Their domestic market is ultra competitive and low price and their international routes are all dominated by foreign carriers that have dumped capacity at just the right time (notice I say "just the right time") where they can never expand because yields are finally normal. There needs to be some balance. Stable aviation with broad connectivity grows a country (through trade, tourism). Indian aviation is has created a crazy employment market (in aviation) and lack of proper connectivity (be it domestic or international).
 
anshabhi
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 5:08 pm

lightsaber wrote:
hohd wrote:
ameya wrote:
Indian aviation could be heading into another cycle of overcapacity and that is bad news for airlines

Charts and full article on the link

From hyper growth to negative growth, the last eight months have been a rollercoaster for Indian aviation. Capacity induction, led by IndiGo, had fuelled a 20 percent growth in passenger numbers, commensurate with the Available Seat Kilometers (ASK) growth each month. Buoyed by cheaper fares, airline after airline pushed for greater occupancy.
The collapse of Jet Airways has often been partially blamed on too much capacity being dumped in the Indian market. It has become a vicious cycle where quick induction of aircraft leads to over capacity in the market. This capacity has to be filled and to stimulate the market and attract passengers, airlines at times sell seats at low fares. While this generates demand and helps fill up the planes and increase load factors, seldom are such mechanisms profitable in the long run.


Jet's demise offered a brief respite for Indian carriers to raise fares, but another round of capacity increases has diminished this effect. There is merit in offering increased services to/from BOM, but there was no urgent need to increase capacity on other sectors.

Also the constant increase in loads but at low fares is causing strains at the airport and air traffic controls and this calls for another round of airport expansions. May be airports have to impose higher fees on airlines on airport use for domestic sectors to keep capacity increase in line with demand at profitable prices.

Facinating link that doesn't understand a growth industry.

In January, 1.42*10^11 ASK is too much
1.29*10^11 ASK in February is too little in low season.

Assuming the market continues to grow at 20%, that means India needs more than 1.55*10^11 ask in December.

The market should be under-served in 2019 assuming that chart is accurate for growth from ameya's link (quoted).

So unless the India economy really slows, the market is OK in 2019.

Lightsaber

Late edit:. My worst case estimate of India growth is 12%. So as long as ASK stays below 1.52*10^11 (average of too much and too little *1.12), which looks certain, the market is going to be fine.


Hey lightsaber are you professionally involved in studying the Indian market?
Otherwise it's very rare to find a foreigner with no roots to India to be so deeply interested in the Indian market
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 5:28 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
But Lightsaber how are you estimating growth. Aviation might be growing at say 20% with prices 10% below cost. What would Indian aviation grow at with airfare 10% over cost (or whatever is a fair margin).

A very sensible argument indeed. Making money purely relying on SLB amortized lease and maintenance credits doesn't prove profitable operations of the airline. Also selling way below cost and talking of growth is like iPhone selling their devices at ₹1000 and talking of robust growth in India, calling it fastest growing iPhone market. Duh, it would be then.
Govt. needs to come into the picture regarding unreasonable fares. Just like they often interfere when fares go very high, they should do the same when fares go too low and set a base limit on that too. Ofcourse, many disagree on govt interference. But when they already are doing so, might as well do it for a good and healthy cause for the industry.

anshabhi wrote:
Hey lightsaber are you professionally involved in studying the Indian market?
Otherwise it's very rare to find a foreigner with no roots to India to be so deeply interested in the Indian market

Hey has some Indian roots in him, doesn't he?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 5:38 pm

avier wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
Aviation might be growing at say 20% with prices 10% below cost. What would Indian aviation grow at with airfare 10% over cost (or whatever is a fair margin).

Also selling way below cost and talking of growth is like iPhone selling their devices at ₹1000 and talking of robust growth in India


I think you guys missed the a.net storyline completely. 9W and AI were/are the only ones selling below cost. That was the primary reason for 9W's demise per JetDoom thread. AI bound to fail for the same reason. Both SG and 6E never sell below cost and have healthy margins.
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 5:45 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
I think you guys missed the a.net storyline completely. 9W and AI were/are the only ones selling below cost. That was the primary reason for 9W's demise per JetDoom thread. AI bound to fail for the same reason. Both SG and 6E never sell below cost and have healthy margins.


6E made a marginal profit for the year ending and SG reported a full yr loss. Not sure how can one claim healthy margins. I'm sure the other smaller carriers are along those lines.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 7:39 pm

Looks like both Jayant Sinha (very polished guy) and Suresh Prabhu (looks like a guy from the streets) both got shafted from the aviation ministry.
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 6:41 am

IndiGo's upcoming international destinations:
- Vnukovo, Moscow, Russia
- Beijing, China
- Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam
- Mandalay, Burma
- Manila, Philippines
- Bahrain.

Source: Tarun Shukla, ET aviation journo
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
anshabhi
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 7:41 am

Hareep Singh Puri is the new civil aviation minister

https://mobile.twitter.com/HardeepSPuri

I guess amritsar-london is coming in next 1 month or less!!

Or he's just a puppet of airline CEOs and has been chosen by them to prevent any interruption to them.
Last edited by anshabhi on Fri May 31, 2019 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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unrave
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 7:48 am

He is a Minister of State with independent charge of aviation. They are making Civil Av a very low key
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 11:32 am

unrave wrote:
IndiGo's upcoming international destinations:
- Vnukovo, Moscow, Russia
- Beijing, China
- Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam
- Mandalay, Burma
- Manila, Philippines
- Bahrain.

Source: Tarun Shukla, ET aviation journo


I haven't heard to Vnukovo and Mandalay, so I say wow to the opening of these "exotic" routes!
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 11:33 am

anshabhi wrote:
Or he's just a puppet of airline CEOs and has been chosen by them to prevent any interruption to them.


Yes, you couldn't rule that out.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 11:42 am

India needs to fix its ATF tax which places a higher burden on domestic flights than international ones.
“A four-five-day holiday from New Delhi to Thailand works out to approximately Rs 29,000-31,000 per person with airfare, making it even cheaper than holidaying in Kerala from New Delhi or the northern points.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 591917.cms

Update on the Jet Airways saga: SBI Chairman to meet Aviation Secretary. (Banks willing to take up to 90% cut on debt but Hindujas have yet to bite)
https://www.firstpost.com/business/jet- ... 32241.html

Air India chaos at london for IRROPS continues into 3rd day. (I think the issue with IRROPS at Air India is that they are too cheap to put you on alternate flights - that's why its a hellhole)

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/wor ... 588084.cms
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 12:18 pm

Interesting to see AI struggling at LHR, in the past, they could send a 744 relief plane.
 
TEMPO
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 12:21 pm

unrave wrote:
He is a Minister of State with independent charge of aviation. They are making Civil Av a very low key

Road And Rail Transport Ministries get cabinet level positions in PM Modi’s second government while a junior minister handles Civil Aviation. I wonder what that signals to the industry and the country.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 5:19 pm

I find it facinating the SpiceJet accelerated their growth to pull end 2021 to 2019.

https://www.bing.com/amp/s/www.livemint ... 14188.html

They were wise to only go for 2 year leases. In two years the MAX debacle will be forgotten by most (posted here as if everyone knew someone lost vs. say smoking).
https://www.bing.com/amp/s/www.livemint ... 14188.html

With India's 30% fuel tax, I calculate half the lease payment is saves, in high utilization duty, switching to the MAX from NG

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 14188.html

MAX ETA by end of July.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
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pushpakvimaan
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 5:36 pm

Most news channels are reporting a tweet from IAF_MCC that India has removed airspace restrictions imposed since Feb.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 600819.cms

Can some one share more information ? Was any NOTAM in place ? I could not locate one.
I always thought airspace was closed on Pakistani side and Indian airspace was made open very soon after air incursion incident.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 5:41 pm

pushpakvimaan wrote:
Most news channels are reporting a tweet from IAF_MCC that India has removed airspace restrictions imposed since Feb.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 600819.cms

Can some one share more information ? Was any NOTAM in place ? I could not locate one.
I always thought airspace was closed on Pakistani side and Indian airspace was made open very soon after air incursion incident.


I think India still closed airspace to planes going or coming from Pakistan with exceptions. I seem to remember 1X per week BKK-IST on Thai was allowed over flight. But I am not the expert here. Bigger question has Pakistan reciprocated and opened its airspace?
 
edealinfo
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 5:43 pm

The Aviation Ministry passes the air fare brought forward to Modi
All senior citizens of Indian nationality and permanently residing in India over 60 years of age get Air India Flight tickets at half the price for travel within INDIA.
Please inform Senior Citizens belonging to your families and friends

FYI they tried, and failed, to sell Air India. Maybe the rate at which they filled seats was the reason why. Enjoy it while it lasts ....


http://www.airindia.in/senior-citizen-concession.htm

Is airindia.in a genuine site? It is showing “not secure” but then many sites in India have this message as well
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1336
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 5:49 pm

Delete
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1336
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 6:06 pm

Poor Vinod Dube

A look out notice has been issued for him ( a professional working for Delta in a senior position he now has to face the Indian music for his decision to try to run Jet. What message is India trying to send????

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbctv ... 91.htm/amp
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1336
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 6:14 pm

GQ India raves about SpiceBiz
(Goes to show you how giving a free ticket can greatly aid marketing efforts)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gqindi ... ring%3Famp
 
Bhadra
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:21 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 9:58 pm

unrave wrote:
He is a Minister of State with independent charge of aviation. They are making Civil Av a very low key


I wouldn't draw that conclusion.
In 2014, Piyush Goyal was a minister of state, with independent charge of the power ministry. It did not mean that the administration treated power as a low key ministry back then. On the contrary, I've found that state ministers with Independent charge are usually more energetic and make quicker decisions.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:04 am

This article describes the fare wars. Most interestingly, it highlights the strategy of going after slots -- which is why I stated earlier in the thread that in the absence of a coherent government policy of allocation of slots, at this time (Jet's collapse), regardless of the aircraft, it is the "early bird that catches the worm" with regard to the BOM (and DEL, Pune, etc.) slots vacated by Jet

"The idea is to deny airport slots to the rivals. Airport slots are one of the most precious resources for airlines. Suppose, if an airline is bidding for Delhi-Pathankot route, it's primarily done to grab landing slot in Delhi even if the airline knows that this route is unlikely to be profitable for them. "It's resource hogging and resource denial. A landing slot gained is a slot denied to the competition. IndiGo is using its cash resources to bleed opponents with unsustainable losses," says a sector consultant."


https://www.businesstoday.in/bt-buzz/ne ... 52098.html

And another article (link below) shows how Spicejet ruthlessly went after Jet's slots:
“SpiceJet has added 23 planes and over a 100 new flights, most of them connecting the key metros of Mumbai and Delhi, in just over a month’s time,”

https://scroll.in/article/924947/aviati ... rways-loss
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1336
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:31 am

In a bizarre situation, Air India mortgaged some land banks, which it doesn't own, as security to public sector banks, which accepted the security. Now Air India hasn't paid back the loans so guess what happens

https://theprint.in/india/broke-air-ind ... se/242837/
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7069
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:10 am

edealinfo wrote:
Poor Vinod Dube

A look out notice has been issued for him ( a professional working for Delta in a senior position he now has to face the Indian music for his decision to try to run Jet. What message is India trying to send????

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbctv ... 91.htm/amp


I am sure he is a US citizen, maybe OCI. Issuing a lookout notice on American without charges... to be continued on non-av.
 
avier
Posts: 856
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:36 am

Vistara operated their first 737 flight using the ex-Jet aircraft on DEL-ATQ last night (31st May). Reg. is VT-TGB and still bears the 9W seats/config and livery - sans the Jet name and flying sun logo, same like how SpiceJet is operating those ex-9W aircrafts.
Funny how India's most premium airline (UK) and India's most shabby airline (SG) are now operating the exact same type of a fleet product, be it on the outside or inside.

https://twitter.com/airvistara/status/1134486506381299712
 
binayak
Posts: 953
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:59 am

avier wrote:
Vistara operated their first 737 flight using the ex-Jet aircraft on DEL-ATQ last night (31st May). Reg. is VT-TGB and still bears the 9W seats/config and livery - sans the Jet name and flying sun logo, same like how SpiceJet is operating those ex-9W aircrafts.
Funny how India's most premium airline (UK) and India's most shabby airline (SG) are now operating the exact same type of a fleet product, be it on the outside or inside.

https://twitter.com/airvistara/status/1134486506381299712


Not exactly the same product inside . SG has taken the oldest ones ( some pre 2006 frames too) and thus the product in those ones are outdated specially in J and surprisingly SG is trying to market that as a new product .
UK has on the other hand taken comparatively much newer ones in which the product is still competitive. If I ain't wrong, the 737s taken by Vistara have sky interior too.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
avier
Posts: 856
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:07 am

binayak wrote:
Not exactly the same product inside . SG has taken the oldest ones ( some pre 2006 frames too) and thus the product in those ones are outdated specially in J and surprisingly SG is trying to market that as a new product .
UK has on the other hand taken comparatively much newer ones in which the product is still competitive. If I ain't wrong, the 737s taken by Vistara have sky interior too.


Yes, i'm aware SG took the oldest birds from 9W fleet. However, 9W had refurbished all of their older fleet with the new seats when they made the switch from their old cloth fabric seats to the leather ones and had also standardised the seat count within each of the variants. So, even their old aircrafts have the newer seat style. That includes the ex-Sahara/Jetkonnect planes too.
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2080
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:14 am

avier wrote:
Vistara operated their first 737 flight using the ex-Jet aircraft on DEL-ATQ last night (31st May). Reg. is VT-TGB and still bears the 9W seats/config and livery - sans the Jet name and flying sun logo, same like how SpiceJet is operating those ex-9W aircrafts.
Funny how India's most premium airline (UK) and India's most shabby airline (SG) are now operating the exact same type of a fleet product, be it on the outside or inside.

https://twitter.com/airvistara/status/1134486506381299712


In flight service inside UK is miles ahead of SG any day, which is also the main thing that matters at the end of the day
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1336
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:23 am

avier wrote:
Vistara operated their first 737 flight using the ex-Jet aircraft on DEL-ATQ last night (31st May). Reg. is VT-TGB and still bears the 9W seats/config and livery - sans the Jet name and flying sun logo, same like how SpiceJet is operating those ex-9W aircrafts.
Funny how India's most premium airline (UK) and India's most shabby airline (SG) are now operating the exact same type of a fleet product, be it on the outside or inside.

https://twitter.com/airvistara/status/1134486506381299712


I am disappointed that Vistara didn't bother with the full painting on the aircraft exterior. My hunch is it is not the money involved but the time factor -- they want to grab the slots and the higher fares as capacity in the market is still short. What are the routes being operated by this 737 NG?
 
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qf789
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - May 2019

Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:10 pm

Please continue discussion in Indian Aviation Thread - June 2019

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