aaexecplat wrote:

Some context to a few points made here. I have hired and worked with outsourced talent (software engineering and call center) from India and the Philippines. There is nothing inherently wrong or bad with outsourcing. It can be a fantastic tool for companies to manage their cost for fairly modular business requirements.

With that out of the way...I have never outsourced any software enginneering to India or anywhere else at $9/hour. Not because it is not possible, but because it would be reckless. I had a good conversation with the CMO of Fidelity a few years ago and he shared with me that he keeps a teal of PHDs in India that manage and run analytics on all their data. Compensation for these folks was around $60k/yr. A bargain for folks of this skill level. $9/hr comes out to about $18k/yr. That means bottom of the barrel skill level. IMO, if that kind of skill level has no place in any company I work in, then it surely has no place in a company like Boeing.

The other item I have (lots of) experience with is media. Trust me when I tell you that the media, including the biggest newspapers in the US have zero ability to conspire against a company like Boeing. Here's how it works...media hires young people willing to do what it takes to find stories that sell. After that, each reporter is completely on their own (which is why resources like HARO exist) and editors merely turn down or accept stories based on their commercial appeal or legal implications. Given how thin all media is staffed these days, the amount of real analysis or cooperation is very limited.

So there is zero comparison between the resources Boeing has at its disposal (PR and legal) vs what a paper like the NYT or a media outlet has at its disposal.

speedking wrote:

737MAX: Made in the USA no more? Now Assembled in the USA. Designed in India?

https://eyelighting.com/made-vs-manufactured-in-usa

FluidFlow wrote:

I really wonder why people get so angry about outsourcing. Our company does it, we outsourced the cleaning, the accounting and the hosting. There is nothing bad in that because why hire a cleaner for 2h a week when you can outsource it. The same goes for big companies, you can buy in expertise for projects instead of hire and fire. You need to do your assessment to make sure you take the right company you want to outsource to but that is basic economics. If you fail there you can end up in deep shit.

FluidFlow wrote:

I really wonder why people get so angry about outsourcing. Our company does it, we outsourced the cleaning, the accounting and the hosting. There is nothing bad in that because why hire a cleaner for 2h a week when you can outsource it. The same goes for big companies, you can buy in expertise for projects instead of hire and fire. You need to do your assessment to make sure you take the right company you want to outsource to but that is basic economics. If you fail there you can end up in deep shit.

IndianicWorld wrote:

When it comes to safety, some things just shouldn’t be outsourced.

Revelation wrote:

aaexecplat wrote:

Some context to a few points made here. I have hired and worked with outsourced talent (software engineering and call center) from India and the Philippines. There is nothing inherently wrong or bad with outsourcing. It can be a fantastic tool for companies to manage their cost for fairly modular business requirements.

With that out of the way...I have never outsourced any software enginneering to India or anywhere else at $9/hour. Not because it is not possible, but because it would be reckless. I had a good conversation with the CMO of Fidelity a few years ago and he shared with me that he keeps a teal of PHDs in India that manage and run analytics on all their data. Compensation for these folks was around $60k/yr. A bargain for folks of this skill level. $9/hr comes out to about $18k/yr. That means bottom of the barrel skill level. IMO, if that kind of skill level has no place in any company I work in, then it surely has no place in a company like Boeing.

The other item I have (lots of) experience with is media. Trust me when I tell you that the media, including the biggest newspapers in the US have zero ability to conspire against a company like Boeing. Here's how it works...media hires young people willing to do what it takes to find stories that sell. After that, each reporter is completely on their own (which is why resources like HARO exist) and editors merely turn down or accept stories based on their commercial appeal or legal implications. Given how thin all media is staffed these days, the amount of real analysis or cooperation is very limited.

So there is zero comparison between the resources Boeing has at its disposal (PR and legal) vs what a paper like the NYT or a media outlet has at its disposal.

Given your statement about how thinly staffed today's media including NYT is, why the bleep are you willing to believe their characterization of Boeing's hiring practices???

As we see on this very forum, talk of outsourcing is a dog whistle that triggers lots of people.

Given how today's media is thinly staffed and gets paid by the click, it should be obvious that their work consists of finding a few tidbits that trigger people and projecting them as widely as possible.

Thus we get posts like:

speedking wrote:

737MAX: Made in the USA no more? Now Assembled in the USA. Designed in India?

https://eyelighting.com/made-vs-manufactured-in-usa

FluidFlow wrote:

I really wonder why people get so angry about outsourcing. Our company does it, we outsourced the cleaning, the accounting and the hosting. There is nothing bad in that because why hire a cleaner for 2h a week when you can outsource it. The same goes for big companies, you can buy in expertise for projects instead of hire and fire. You need to do your assessment to make sure you take the right company you want to outsource to but that is basic economics. If you fail there you can end up in deep shit.

unrave wrote:

$9/hr is excellent salary in India.

ArgentoSystems wrote:

FluidFlow wrote:

I really wonder why people get so angry about outsourcing. Our company does it, we outsourced the cleaning, the accounting and the hosting. There is nothing bad in that because why hire a cleaner for 2h a week when you can outsource it. The same goes for big companies, you can buy in expertise for projects instead of hire and fire. You need to do your assessment to make sure you take the right company you want to outsource to but that is basic economics. If you fail there you can end up in deep shit.

What your company outsources is services that other companies are vastly more efficient at. No one outsources in the area of their core expertise. You can be sure cleaning company does not hire outside help for cleaning, accounting company does their own accounting, and hosting company does not further outsource hosting.

If Boeing has to outsource critical s/w writing then it is exactly what I'm talking about - erosion of expertise.

ArgentoSystems wrote:

FluidFlow wrote:

I really wonder why people get so angry about outsourcing. Our company does it, we outsourced the cleaning, the accounting and the hosting. There is nothing bad in that because why hire a cleaner for 2h a week when you can outsource it. The same goes for big companies, you can buy in expertise for projects instead of hire and fire. You need to do your assessment to make sure you take the right company you want to outsource to but that is basic economics. If you fail there you can end up in deep shit.

What your company outsources is services that other companies are vastly more efficient at. No one outsources in the area of their core expertise. You can be sure cleaning company does not hire outside help for cleaning, accounting company does their own accounting, and hosting company does not further outsource hosting.

If Boeing has to outsource critical s/w writing then it is exactly what I'm talking about - erosion of expertise.

LDRA wrote:

With auto code generation from controls model, lot of flight control code writing is actually outsourced to computer already, not people...

Absynth wrote:

Revelation wrote:

PW100 wrote:

This makes me wonder how long Boeing will stay in denial and keep producion at 42 planes/m and 52 engines/m. I can see them willing to eat the cost of ordering excess engines from CFM just to prevent the opportunity for Airbus to jump into that gap and increase their 320 engine orders

Either way, the silver lining for Boeing will be they will be the first airplane manufacturer to break the 1000 deliveries a year milestone. I can see them deliver up to 1200 planes next year, a record Airbus probably wont be able to break for at least 10 years.

WesternDC6B wrote:

Absynth wrote:

Revelation wrote:

My question is: if they keep on producing that many airframes per month, not knowing when - or if - the Max will receive clearance to fly, where can they park them all?

ArgentoSystems wrote:

unrave wrote:

$9/hr is excellent salary in India.

Maybe so, but not for expert programmers. In fact s/w development in India became so expensive companies start to move development back to NA. 60K per year would be expected cost to hire programmer there.

The fact that boeing paid $9/h, means they were hiring desperate bottom of the barrel programmers.