Blerg
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Tue May 28, 2019 4:49 am

HeyTK wrote:
According to kokpit.aero Qatar "has pushed the button" to send the a380 to IST:)


So they will become the first A380 operator there?
 
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HeyTK
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Tue May 28, 2019 5:50 am

Blerg wrote:
HeyTK wrote:
According to kokpit.aero Qatar "has pushed the button" to send the a380 to IST:)


So they will become the first A380 operator there?


It guess seems like it!

Also this beauty was spotted in its wild habitat :)
Image
Last edited by HeyTK on Tue May 28, 2019 5:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
stylo777
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Tue May 28, 2019 5:51 am

That was very much expected; either them or EK, but with recent "cozyings" between Turkey and Qatar, nothing less would suit the egos *eyeroll*

Nevertheless, happy to see a new type at IST and one which is extremely rare to Turkey. Former IST only got the 380 twice: one time on a Lufthansa promo tour and the other time for the airshow in Airbus livery.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Tue May 28, 2019 8:25 pm

stylo777 wrote:
Sadly, only a few months after opening, the new airport has seen it's first incident.

A TK B77W on a domestic flight to ESB crashed an electric pole while taxiing out for departure.

https://youtu.be/gM72WYcz6NM

I am not sure if this is the same exact pole, but gives you an idea from inside the cabin on another flight: (First couple of minutes of the video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8GEc6pONs4
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Tue May 28, 2019 9:34 pm

No, that's not the pole that got smashed by that 77W. :shock:
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Wed May 29, 2019 1:13 pm

TK and Do&Co sign 15-year agreement to extend their catering joint venture.
TK will also purchase the Do&Co hotel property in Ortakoy.

https://investor.turkishairlines.com/en ... osures-380
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
1g
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 1:57 am

What does the future plan of IST look like right now?

I can only find construction plans going a quite a few years back but they don't resemble the current plan much anymore, so the airport's plan has obviously changed.

Do we know where the new terminal or runways are being built?
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 6:35 am

1g wrote:
What does the future plan of IST look like right now?

I can only find construction plans going a quite a few years back but they don't resemble the current plan much anymore, so the airport's plan has obviously changed.

Do we know where the new terminal or runways are being built?


Well, for the moment, those "old construction plans" are still valid for the public's knowledge (the ones you see in IGA's website). The current insider information that I can gather is pretty much different.
1) The 2nd Terminal is still planned to be built on the same location as that "small" terminal in the old plans. However, it is going to be the twin (or nearly twin) of the present big terminal, and at the same latitude. The midpoints of these two terminals should be like 1.750-2.000 mt. apart. They will be interconnected with an underground APM on the airside. Landside connection will be by underground rail (metro) or on the surface by wheeled vehicles.
2) They are planning for earth levelling operations to start by beginning 2020. This team will be relieved from their current work, which is the earth levelling process for the 3rd N/S runway. Once they finish with 2nd Terminal's work, they are expected to switch to the 4th rwy's (the sole East/West one...). However the overall construction of the second terminal will take longer: till the beginning of 2025. It's claimed that this will be a longer period but will be less costlier. ????
3) Consequently, the two remaining (yet unbuilt, the last to be built...) N/S rwys will be closer to one another. In the old plans they are 1.525 mt. apart which will be reduced to 850 mt. Still this is within ICAO's tolerances for most parallel and independent ops. Looks like these will be single rwys, both 3.750x60 mt. structures (without any emergency rwy) like the 3rd. N/S rwy presently under construction.

It goes without saying that all these plans are very very much dependent on IGA's financing. AFAIK, they will not have a penny left in their pockets once that 3rd. rwy will be completed.

If these plans workout as described, I expect that all domestic and international airline ops (except for TK & Star Alliance) will be moved out to the nd Terminal. In fact, I also foresee that TK's domestic operations will also be moved to the new terminal (to the west wing, looking at the current terminal's F & G piers).
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 11:00 am

Thanks for the detailed answer "mafaky". So, if they have no money left and still have to pay around 1B euro annually, how are they going to get financing for the rest of the construction? If TK international ops stay at the current terminal, is there really that much airlines/traffic to fill the second terminal without TK's international gates? Thank you.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 11:05 am

mafaky wrote:
No, that's not the pole that got smashed by that 77W. :shock:

But looks like there are more poles just like the one that got smashed, really close to taxiways. Are they just work lights??
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 12:05 pm

TK787 wrote:
Thanks for the detailed answer "mafaky". So, if they have no money left and still have to pay around 1B euro annually, how are they going to get financing for the rest of the construction? If TK international ops stay at the current terminal, is there really that much airlines/traffic to fill the second terminal without TK's international gates? Thank you.


If they can afford to sell their "shares" to a new third party, they should be able to raise the finance that will be needed. They have almost zero chance to obtain further credit from local and/or international banks and/or finance groups. They may not pay anything (that 1 billion plus €) to the State. The first payment should have been made on 01.11.2019 which already is deferred to the end of 25-year period. Plus a further 600-700 m € of the second due payment on 01.11.2020... You see, the ever-generous and very understanding State can always accept further deferments. :P

I agree with you about the traffic volumes. That's why I also predict that all domestic and non-TK international services will be shifted to the 2nd Terminal. Of course it may be possible to open the new terminal in several stages. But can they build it in a feasibly functional modular way? I don't know, that's way out from my expertise.

But looks like there are more poles just like the one that got smashed, really close to taxiways. Are they just work lights??

I'm not 100% sure but most (if not all) those poles which are not single cylinder poles (like the one smashed) have got anything to do with ligthing/illumination. The one that got smashed was to house surveillance cameras.
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
Jetty
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 12:54 pm

mafaky wrote:
As for Istanbul Airport "to be sold", that's a very big misinterpretation.

All the facilities and those to-be-built ones as well as the land itself belongs to the State. The four IGA partners (as of today) have the rights or a BOTS licence to operate this Airport for a period of 25 years, starting from 30th October 2018. What they can sell (in part, I suppose) is the said licence...

It's very clear that, as of today, IGA owns nearly 6 billion € to Banks. They are obliged to pay over 1 billion € per year to the State

So IGA financed construction works for an airport that doesn’t belong to them?

The 1 billion E seams a very high fee especially if they financed all construction themselves. It is more than the annual profit of Fraport, Aeroport des Paris and Schiphol Group i.e., who all operate multiple airports among which one of a similar size as IST. Also on a per passenger basis it seems unrealistic: more than E 10 per passenger which pays for nothing other than that the airport has the license to operate (as I understand).
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 1:31 pm

Jetty wrote:
mafaky wrote:
As for Istanbul Airport "to be sold", that's a very big misinterpretation.

All the facilities and those to-be-built ones as well as the land itself belongs to the State. The four IGA partners (as of today) have the rights or a BOTS licence to operate this Airport for a period of 25 years, starting from 30th October 2018. What they can sell (in part, I suppose) is the said licence...

It's very clear that, as of today, IGA owns nearly 6 billion € to Banks. They are obliged to pay over 1 billion € per year to the State

So IGA financed construction works for an airport that doesn’t belong to them?

The 1 billion E seams a very high fee especially if they financed all construction themselves. It is more than the annual profit of Fraport, Aeroport des Paris and Schiphol Group i.e., who all operate multiple airports among which one of a similar size as IST. Also on a per passenger basis it seems unrealistic: more than E 10 per passenger which pays for nothing other than that the airport has the license to operate (as I understand).

Well, it's not that simple as you describe:

First this is BOTS Project (Build-Operate-Transfer). The winner builds (and finances) everything, but also collects everything! That is, the Passenger Service Fees, Parking Fees, Terminal Sales (DF & F&B) Outlets' Rentals and the like are only a small part of it. They also collect all the other fees (simplest ones: airplane landing fees, parking fees, ground services fees) and they also lease the land to third parties. e.g. THY needs to build a cargo terminal, or a MRO facility, or a Crew Terminal/Ops Center. They lease the land to THY but THY finances the building of such facilities themselves. But they pay a rent for the land, to IGA, for 25 years. IGA basically builds the terminal(s), the runways (equipment like DME-VOR, ILS, Radar, etc. are provided by the State), an empty ATC Control Tower, a few other facilities. But they have to provide ground servicing (which they sub-lease mostly to third parties), provide the Fire Stations & Equipment... The Cargo Terminal/Warehouses are also excluded from the framework and responsibility of IGA. In return to all these multiple incomes, they only pay € 1 billion to the State, annually. And most of these collections are exempt from Income/Corporate Tax as the greater part of the facility is in the international (duty-free) territory. They are also provided with a State Guarantee for the lack of passenger traffic. Not enough pax: no sweat! State compensates for the unfulfilled part. :o
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
soups
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 4:59 pm

There seem to be a lot of diversions tonight at the new airport in istanbul. Anyone know why? I will passing by the new one next week (excited!!)
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 5:38 pm

soups wrote:
There seem to be a lot of diversions tonight at the new airport in istanbul. Anyone know why? I will passing by the new one next week (excited!!)

I see no diversions. The usual traffic, few holding patterns. Bon Voyage.
 
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TK105
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 7:48 pm

Actually above ESB, 10+ planes are holding right now and weather is just perfect. Most probably a presidential flight is planed.
The future is in the skies.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 8:08 pm

TK105 wrote:
Actually above ESB, 10+ planes are holding right now and weather is just perfect. Most probably a presidential flight is planed.

Most of the time I would say, that doesn't make sense. But, oh well, what does ????
 
B1168
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Thu May 30, 2019 8:39 pm

mercure1 wrote:
As previously posted by LAXIntl seems TK indeed launching service to Xi'an China

https://www.dailysabah.com/business/201 ... cotta-army

Story says Xiamen is next after Xi'an and total 8 new China cities under review.


I doubt if there are still flight rights left. If so they probably can consider the central-east China, as well as XIY. Seems insane, but nothing is impossible for XIY if they can get XIY-ATH work as granted.
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 4:56 am

B1168 wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
As previously posted by LAXIntl seems TK indeed launching service to Xi'an China

https://www.dailysabah.com/business/201 ... cotta-army

Story says Xiamen is next after Xi'an and total 8 new China cities under review.


I doubt if there are still flight rights left. If so they probably can consider the central-east China, as well as XIY. Seems insane, but nothing is impossible for XIY if they can get XIY-ATH work as granted.


Turkish carriers cannot obtain additional flight rights to airports like Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou & Hong Kong (these are the "primary airports"). They have totally used up what has been granted. But China may provide additional flight rights (like Xi'an) for their secondary airports. Chinese carriers have just recently started fling to Istanbul, or have plans to do within near future. Majority of these flights don't originate from the above mentioned primary Chinese airports.
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
B1168
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 12:43 pm

mafaky wrote:
B1168 wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
As previously posted by LAXIntl seems TK indeed launching service to Xi'an China

https://www.dailysabah.com/business/201 ... cotta-army

Story says Xiamen is next after Xi'an and total 8 new China cities under review.


I doubt if there are still flight rights left. If so they probably can consider the central-east China, as well as XIY. Seems insane, but nothing is impossible for XIY if they can get XIY-ATH work as granted.


Turkish carriers cannot obtain additional flight rights to airports like Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou & Hong Kong (these are the "primary airports"). They have totally used up what has been granted. But China may provide additional flight rights (like Xi'an) for their secondary airports. Chinese carriers have just recently started fling to Istanbul, or have plans to do within near future. Majority of these flights don't originate from the above mentioned primary Chinese airports.


With that said, it will be much more possible that they start flying some 2nd tier cities... I expect such flights be on 332, and that city should ideally be a star alliance (or connect) member’s hub or focus city.
 
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mafaky
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 12:53 pm

B1168 wrote:
With that said, it will be much more possible that they start flying some 2nd tier cities... I expect such flights be on 332, and that city should ideally be a star alliance (or connect) member’s hub or focus city.


The six 789s arriving within 2019 will definitely relieve the 5 (five) ER capable but now very much aging 332s (but these may also undergo some long time-taking major checks...) so these can be allocated to those new (2nd tier) China routes. Minimal J Class seating (18 seats after refurbishment), so TK should get concerned only as how to fill up the economy cabin...
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
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TK787
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Re: Turkish Aviation May 2019

Fri May 31, 2019 5:08 pm

Please continue here: Turkish Aviation June 2019
Moderators, please archive this thread, since I've started a new one. Thank you.

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