User avatar
flymco753
Topic Author
Posts: 3242
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Delta & MCO ...what next?

Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:22 pm

Data from Form 41 International by the DOT suggests the MCO/AMS city pair averaged a LF in the mid 80's. While LF isn't a complete measurement of a flights success, it speaks for itself with MCO being a regular out station.

A lot of RJ routes were cut last winter. IND & BDL are 717's and RDU is a mix of 717's and A320's.

MCO ranks high when it comes to ASM's for outstations and amount of daily flights.

I see MCO playing a key role in DL's network to come since many JV partners are using the airport and relocating to Airside 4. Still waiting on AM to move over.

Simply, what's next? Focus city? Hublet? I understand proximity to ATL plays a factor, but I think MCO has opportunity to play a more important role in this network.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
flyinghippo
Posts: 720
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:48 am

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:28 pm

I don't think it will amount to anything other than a leisure destination for DL. It's way too close to ATL to develop any meaningful connections and does not have enough O&D traffic to sustain any major expansion.
 
micstatic
Posts: 729
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 10:07 pm

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:28 pm

I don't see it. They used to have a focus city there. When I think of a low fare destination orlando is one of the first that comes to mind.
S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25659
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:33 pm

Nothing is net most likely.
a.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:42 pm

flymco753 wrote:

I see MCO playing a key role in DL's network to come since many JV partners are using the airport and relocating to Airside 4. Still waiting on AM to move over.


Do you want to explain your thoughts? MCO is an O&D play for DL and its partners. Why should it be anything different? LAS East.
 
EBiafore99
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:23 pm

My two cents:

1. Elimination of RJ services - that's been a common theme with DL throughout it's network. DL has been upgrading aircraft, especially the RJ200's.
2. Pulled DL flights for today (Tuesday):
AMS - 1
ATL - 16
BOS - 3
CVG - 2
DTW - 6
IND - 1
LAX - 3
JFK - 4
LGA - 6
RDU - 3
SLC - 2
SEA - 1
Everything, save IND, is to a hub or focus city. There's nothing to indicate that MCO is becoming a focus city

3. Skyteam, like the other alliances, want the members to be close. The moving is most likely for convenience and space was available rather than any special reason.
 
n2dru
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:02 am

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:24 pm

DL already tried a hub in the 90s and scaled it down. Flights to Central/South America were planned. DL realized those flights made more economic sense from ATL. Orlando's traffic is heavily leisure. However its a market the majors will serve & have a decent presence (regardless of the large LCC presence) not only for their FFs/clients but the sheer volume of traffic MCO receives much like LAS.
 
umichman
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:42 am

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:50 pm

EBiafore99 wrote:
My two cents:

1. Elimination of RJ services - that's been a common theme with DL throughout it's network. DL has been upgrading aircraft, especially the RJ200's.
2. Pulled DL flights for today (Tuesday):
AMS - 1
ATL - 16
BOS - 3
CVG - 2
DTW - 6
IND - 1
LAX - 3
JFK - 4
LGA - 6
RDU - 3
SLC - 2
SEA - 1
Everything, save IND, is to a hub or focus city. There's nothing to indicate that MCO is becoming a focus city

3. Skyteam, like the other alliances, want the members to be close. The moving is most likely for convenience and space was available rather than any special reason.



You left out 4x to MSP on 753's. At any rate, the days of the official airline of Disney are long past and the ULCC's are now fully entrenched at MCO (and SFB). DL will amount to nothing more than a fairly minor focus city at MCO. There's some decent biz traffic to MCO, but there's way too much competition for the leisure fare crowd to make it a viable hub.
 
Jaxman16
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:07 pm

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:58 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Data from Form 41 International by the DOT suggests the MCO/AMS city pair averaged a LF in the mid 80's. While LF isn't a complete measurement of a flights success, it speaks for itself with MCO being a regular out station.

MCO ranks high when it comes to ASM's for outstations and amount of daily flights..


Where do you get the data for ASM's rankings? Curious to see the top outstations according to your data.
 
NateGreat
Posts: 351
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:02 pm

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 12:17 am

umichman wrote:
EBiafore99 wrote:
My two cents:

1. Elimination of RJ services - that's been a common theme with DL throughout it's network. DL has been upgrading aircraft, especially the RJ200's.
2. Pulled DL flights for today (Tuesday):
AMS - 1
ATL - 16
BOS - 3
CVG - 2
DTW - 6
IND - 1
LAX - 3
JFK - 4
LGA - 6
RDU - 3
SLC - 2
SEA - 1
Everything, save IND, is to a hub or focus city. There's nothing to indicate that MCO is becoming a focus city

3. Skyteam, like the other alliances, want the members to be close. The moving is most likely for convenience and space was available rather than any special reason.



You left out 4x to MSP on 753's. At any rate, the days of the official airline of Disney are long past and the ULCC's are now fully entrenched at MCO (and SFB). DL will amount to nothing more than a fairly minor focus city at MCO. There's some decent biz traffic to MCO, but there's way too much competition for the leisure fare crowd to make it a viable hub.

I guess heavy leisure traffic, plus nearby MIA and ATL, is why there is no Orlando to London Heathrow service.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 3945
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 12:19 am

flymco753 wrote:
Data from Form 41 International by the DOT suggests the MCO/AMS city pair averaged a LF in the mid 80's. While LF isn't a complete measurement of a flights success, it speaks for itself with MCO being a regular out station.

A lot of RJ routes were cut last winter. IND & BDL are 717's and RDU is a mix of 717's and A320's.

MCO ranks high when it comes to ASM's for outstations and amount of daily flights.

I see MCO playing a key role in DL's network to come since many JV partners are using the airport and relocating to Airside 4. Still waiting on AM to move over.

Simply, what's next? Focus city? Hublet? I understand proximity to ATL plays a factor, but I think MCO has opportunity to play a more important role in this network.


EBiafore99 wrote:
My two cents:

1. Elimination of RJ services - that's been a common theme with DL throughout it's network. DL has been upgrading aircraft, especially the RJ200's.
2. Pulled DL flights for today (Tuesday):
AMS - 1
ATL - 16
BOS - 3
CVG - 2
DTW - 6
IND - 1
LAX - 3
JFK - 4
LGA - 6
RDU - 3
SLC - 2
SEA - 1
Everything, save IND, is to a hub or focus city. There's nothing to indicate that MCO is becoming a focus city

3. Skyteam, like the other alliances, want the members to be close. The moving is most likely for convenience and space was available rather than any special reason.


As mentioned above, the proximity to ATL is a problem in terms of expansion from MCO

Remember that MCO generates a ton of connecting traffic through ATL, and adding p2p flights that overfly ATL is not something DL is eager to do unless it provides substantial gain for the company.

The obvious point is the traveler profile of most MCO passengers, doesn't align with a focus city for DL. Most people going to MCO are families and convention goers, which means they likely aren't traveling to MCO more than once every 2-3 years. Therefore the market trends more towards B6, WN, and the ULCCs, because there isn't frequent high $$$ travel(ex. Consulting, Banking, Tech, e.t.c) from MCO that justify adding p2p flights

If you are DL you want to allocate your resources where they can provide the most return in the long-run, and in IMO MCO isn't going to provide the return on investment that other stations will.
Delta Diamond Medallion and AAdvantage Gold for 2019
 
gunnerman
Posts: 842
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 12:23 am

Several years ago DL tried MCO-LGW. Most of the traffic was into MCO and yields were horrible. DL couldn't compete with the UK charter airlines who filled their flights with passengers booked through tour operators.
 
NateGreat
Posts: 351
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:02 pm

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 12:32 am

Midwestindy wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Data from Form 41 International by the DOT suggests the MCO/AMS city pair averaged a LF in the mid 80's. While LF isn't a complete measurement of a flights success, it speaks for itself with MCO being a regular out station.

A lot of RJ routes were cut last winter. IND & BDL are 717's and RDU is a mix of 717's and A320's.

MCO ranks high when it comes to ASM's for outstations and amount of daily flights.

I see MCO playing a key role in DL's network to come since many JV partners are using the airport and relocating to Airside 4. Still waiting on AM to move over.

Simply, what's next? Focus city? Hublet? I understand proximity to ATL plays a factor, but I think MCO has opportunity to play a more important role in this network.


EBiafore99 wrote:
My two cents:

1. Elimination of RJ services - that's been a common theme with DL throughout it's network. DL has been upgrading aircraft, especially the RJ200's.
2. Pulled DL flights for today (Tuesday):
AMS - 1
ATL - 16
BOS - 3
CVG - 2
DTW - 6
IND - 1
LAX - 3
JFK - 4
LGA - 6
RDU - 3
SLC - 2
SEA - 1
Everything, save IND, is to a hub or focus city. There's nothing to indicate that MCO is becoming a focus city

3. Skyteam, like the other alliances, want the members to be close. The moving is most likely for convenience and space was available rather than any special reason.


As mentioned above, the proximity to ATL is a problem in terms of expansion from MCO

Remember that MCO generates a ton of connecting traffic through ATL, and adding p2p flights that overfly ATL is not something DL is eager to do unless it provides substantial gain for the company.

The obvious point is the traveler profile of most MCO passengers, doesn't align with a focus city for DL. Most people going to MCO are families and convention goers, which means they likely aren't traveling to MCO more than once every 2-3 years. Therefore the market trends more towards B6, WN, and the ULCCs, because there isn't frequent high $$$ travel(ex. Consulting, Banking, Tech, e.t.c) from MCO that justify adding p2p flights

If you are DL you want to allocate your resources where they can provide the most return in the long-run, and in IMO MCO isn't going to provide the return on investment that other stations will.

ATL is not only the busiest destination from MCO, but MCO is the busiest destination from ATL (the world’s busiest airport) and the route is dominated by well over a dozen Delta 757s daily, and the flights are always packed. In fact, ATL-MCO-ATL is Delta’s busiest route. IIRC, Delta is the second-largest carrier at MCO, and the largest of the US3 at MCO.
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 2060
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 12:51 am

NateGreat wrote:
ATL is not only the busiest destination from MCO, but MCO is the busiest destination from ATL (the world’s busiest airport) and the route is dominated by well over a dozen Delta 757s daily, and the flights are always packed. In fact, ATL-MCO-ATL is Delta’s busiest route. IIRC, Delta is the second-largest carrier at MCO, and the largest of the US3 at MCO.


I recall some of these DL ATL-MCO rounds were 777s a decade or so ago.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
tphuang
Posts: 2908
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 1:01 am

So I see quite a few threads about DL should turn MCO or LAS or MSY into focus cities. Of the three, MCO is clearly their strongest city. In all 3, you have a situation of WN being largest with a huge NK buildup coming. In this type of setup, there is simply no way for DL or any legacies to get to 35+% domestic market share + most of the international flying, which is needed for them to make a place profitable. You can look through all the legacy hubs and see which one falls below that threshold and is actually making money.

Of MCO, LAS and MSY, MCO is probably the one with the most corporate demand going forward given all the companies relocating there. So it could certainly become less dominated by leisure travel in 10 or 20 years. That's kind of the premise I guess B6 is going by in their future MCO plans. But in terms of premium traffic, it's still way behind the major east coast cities (even it's rival in South Florida). DL currently is possibly the strongest carrier in Orlando. There just doesn't seem to be any reason for them to try harder unless someone else starts to control point of sale there.
 
AirNovaBAe146
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:36 pm

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 1:56 am

flymco753 wrote:

MCO ranks high when it comes to ASM's for outstations and amount of daily flights.

I see MCO playing a key role in DL's network to come since many JV partners are using the airport and relocating to Airside 4. Still waiting on AM to move over.



AM is there. They usually park in the gates in the 90s. WestJet, another Delta partner, is also there, although I don't think much in the way of connecting passengers or even shared resources takes place. The Airside 4 90#s gates has an electic range of users, from the aforementioned AM & WJ, who have DL links to be there, to Air Canada, a couple other Mexican carriers, Sun Country, and Sunwing.
 
NateGreat
Posts: 351
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:02 pm

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 2:08 am

RDUDDJI wrote:
NateGreat wrote:
ATL is not only the busiest destination from MCO, but MCO is the busiest destination from ATL (the world’s busiest airport) and the route is dominated by well over a dozen Delta 757s daily, and the flights are always packed. In fact, ATL-MCO-ATL is Delta’s busiest route. IIRC, Delta is the second-largest carrier at MCO, and the largest of the US3 at MCO.


I recall some of these DL ATL-MCO rounds were 777s a decade or so ago.

Many different Delta widebodies have done the ATL-MCO flights through the years. L1011s, B777s, B764s before they became international birds, and recently the domestic 767-300 made regular appearances on the ATL-MCO hops. I remember flying the route on a Boeing 767 (-400 I believe) back in January 2009.
 
User avatar
flymco753
Topic Author
Posts: 3242
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 2:08 am

AirNovaBAe146 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:

MCO ranks high when it comes to ASM's for outstations and amount of daily flights.

I see MCO playing a key role in DL's network to come since many JV partners are using the airport and relocating to Airside 4. Still waiting on AM to move over.



AM is there. They usually park in the gates in the 90s. WestJet, another Delta partner, is also there, although I don't think much in the way of connecting passengers or even shared resources takes place. The Airside 4 90#s gates has an electic range of users, from the aforementioned AM & WJ, who have DL links to be there, to Air Canada, a couple other Mexican carriers, Sun Country, and Sunwing.
Good to see AM at 4 now. This must be new since they were at 1 a couple of weeks ago.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1427
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 2:19 am

When the South Terminal opens and most of the incumbent int'l players move there, Airside 4 will be sitting with a few extra gates.

MCO is quickly turning into a LAS-style operation where it will be dominated by LCCs and a growing ULCC base. Though I can see DL adding a few token LatAm/Caribbean routes to spite B6, and/or partner with G3 to do Brazil-Caribbean-MCO tag-ons.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 1170
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 2:25 am

RDUDDJI wrote:
NateGreat wrote:
ATL is not only the busiest destination from MCO, but MCO is the busiest destination from ATL (the world’s busiest airport) and the route is dominated by well over a dozen Delta 757s daily, and the flights are always packed. In fact, ATL-MCO-ATL is Delta’s busiest route. IIRC, Delta is the second-largest carrier at MCO, and the largest of the US3 at MCO.


I recall some of these DL ATL-MCO rounds were 777s a decade or so ago.


Yes at one point Delta operated everything from the CRJ-200 to a 777 on ATL-MCO.

I really miss heading down to the 60’s gates and jumping on a regional jet to FL cities. A lot of times I would fly MCO-FLL-ATL-final destination as a way to earn more miles. A lot of times it was cheaper booking it that way.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 346
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 3:41 am

gunnerman wrote:
Several years ago DL tried MCO-LGW. Most of the traffic was into MCO and yields were horrible. DL couldn't compete with the UK charter airlines who filled their flights with passengers booked through tour operators.


DL flew MCO-FRA also from 1988 to 1997 and I believe flew MCO-ORY one summer also in the early or mid 1990's. I don't recall the LGW service but it makes sense they tried it at some point.

Through the years DL has connected just about every decent sized airport in the country nonstop to MCO - just not at the same time. If you looked overall at nonstop destinations on DL from about 1987 to 2017 it would be a really impressive list. But in reality they stopped and started many of those destinations constantly through the years, also going through the Delta Express and Song experiments where MCO got major buildups with those airlines within airlines, only to be pulled down when those operations were folded back into mainline. Only consistent destinations throughout the period have been the hubs, NYC airports, BOS and LAX.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7229
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 4:15 am

The core of MCO's service is to hubs and focus cities. Outside of those markets its basically opportunistic utilization flying during peak spring break travel periods and/or Saturday only service using available aircraft time from reduced weekend service into business-heavy market.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 3945
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 5:11 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
The core of MCO's service is to hubs and focus cities. Outside of those markets its basically opportunistic utilization flying during peak spring break travel periods and/or Saturday only service using available aircraft time from reduced weekend service into business-heavy market.


They run IND-MCO daily year-round mainline from MCO, it doesn't seem too far fetched that another route non-hub/non-focus city could do the same
Delta Diamond Medallion and AAdvantage Gold for 2019
 
User avatar
flymco753
Topic Author
Posts: 3242
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 12:42 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
The core of MCO's service is to hubs and focus cities. Outside of those markets its basically opportunistic utilization flying during peak spring break travel periods and/or Saturday only service using available aircraft time from reduced weekend service into business-heavy market.


They run IND-MCO daily year-round mainline from MCO, it doesn't seem too far fetched that another route non-hub/non-focus city could do the same
That's why I think that some places like BDL, BNA, MSY, & AUS can all be added using 717's because they would run along the same lines as the IND route in terms of economics and market size.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
tphuang
Posts: 2908
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 12:49 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
The core of MCO's service is to hubs and focus cities. Outside of those markets its basically opportunistic utilization flying during peak spring break travel periods and/or Saturday only service using available aircraft time from reduced weekend service into business-heavy market.


They run IND-MCO daily year-round mainline from MCO, it doesn't seem too far fetched that another route non-hub/non-focus city could do the same
That's why I think that some places like BDL, BNA, MSY, & AUS can all be added using 717's because they would run along the same lines as the IND route in terms of economics and market size.

BNA is a possibility I guess, but the other 3 have way too much competition already. They simply don't have the cost or point of sale in those markets to sustain these markets. If they do add any other market, it would be as part of a larger buildup in that market.
 
alfa164
Posts: 2886
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 12:56 pm

gunnerman wrote:
Several years ago DL tried MCO-LGW. Most of the traffic was into MCO and yields were horrible. DL couldn't compete with the UK charter airlines who filled their flights with passengers booked through tour operators.


VS flies MCO-LGW now, and DL codeshares on that flight. There is no need for them to schedule their own service on that route.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
amc737
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:56 am

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 1:04 pm

As far as I am aware Delta never operated a non-stop Orlando-Gatwick, they did operate Miami to Gatwick briefly after buying Pan Ams European route network in 1991.

Delta have flown Gatwick to Atlanta, Boston, Cincinnati, Detroit, Miami, New York and Frankfurt

Amc737
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 13786
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 1:44 pm

tphuang wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

They run IND-MCO daily year-round mainline from MCO, it doesn't seem too far fetched that another route non-hub/non-focus city could do the same
That's why I think that some places like BDL, BNA, MSY, & AUS can all be added using 717's because they would run along the same lines as the IND route in terms of economics and market size.

BNA is a possibility I guess, but the other 3 have way too much competition already. They simply don't have the cost or point of sale in those markets to sustain these markets. If they do add any other market, it would be as part of a larger buildup in that market.


BNA has less competition as far as number of carriers, but it is also something approximating a hub-hub flight for WN, which makes things harder than they otherwise would be.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 1507
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 1:46 pm

flymco753 wrote:
Data from Form 41 International by the DOT suggests the MCO/AMS city pair averaged a LF in the mid 80's. While LF isn't a complete measurement of a flights success, it speaks for itself with MCO being a regular out station.

A lot of RJ routes were cut last winter. IND & BDL are 717's and RDU is a mix of 717's and A320's.

MCO ranks high when it comes to ASM's for outstations and amount of daily flights.

I see MCO playing a key role in DL's network to come since many JV partners are using the airport and relocating to Airside 4. Still waiting on AM to move over.

Simply, what's next? Focus city? Hublet? I understand proximity to ATL plays a factor, but I think MCO has opportunity to play a more important role in this network.


Delta used to have a large focus city in MCO until the mid to late 1990’s. They were the official carrier of Disney World for quite some time. You could find Disney logos all over their timetables. It was probably about 2/3 the size of their DFW operation if I recall correctly. They served just about every major city and had regional service all over Florida and into adjacent states. I think Nashville was as far as they flew for smaller markets. It died when they tried that whole Song thing and they were in that whole 7.5 program. I’ll look at one of my old time tables later and post a list.
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
Cunard
Posts: 2373
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 2:46 pm

alfa164 wrote:
gunnerman wrote:
Several years ago DL tried MCO-LGW. Most of the traffic was into MCO and yields were horrible. DL couldn't compete with the UK charter airlines who filled their flights with passengers booked through tour operators.


VS flies MCO-LGW now, and DL codeshares on that flight. There is no need for them to schedule their own service on that route.


Exactly your totally spot on :-)

One of Delta's twice daily Atlanta flights to LGW originated from MCO, on the arrival flight boards at LGW it always showed up as DL10 Orlando- Atlanta.

Delta operated a daily MCO-ATL-LGW flight with a L15 during the late eighties early nineties.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
User avatar
compensateme
Posts: 3280
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 3:28 pm

Cunard wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
gunnerman wrote:
Several years ago DL tried MCO-LGW. Most of the traffic was into MCO and yields were horrible. DL couldn't compete with the UK charter airlines who filled their flights with passengers booked through tour operators.


VS flies MCO-LGW now, and DL codeshares on that flight. There is no need for them to schedule their own service on that route.


Exactly your totally spot on :-)

One of Delta's twice daily Atlanta flights to LGW originated from MCO, on the arrival flight boards at LGW it always showed up as DL10 Orlando- Atlanta.

Delta operated a daily MCO-ATL-LGW flight with a L15 during the late eighties early nineties.


DL also briefly operated same plane MCO-DTW-LGW service in 1994. I was disappointed, because the flight to DTW featured upgraded hot lunch service in an era when most airlines served cold sandwiches... and my mom ordered me a kids meal that was supposed to be Disney-themed, but instead was "Dusty the Air Lion/Fantastic Flyer" themed and came with a hot dog that even a fifthly gas station would be ashamed to serve. DL sold the DTW-LGW route to NW late in the year, and ended DTW-MCO early in 1995 as part of the initial MCO hub dismantling.

DL would soon introduce "Delta Express" -- single-cabin 732 -- on many of its former MCO flights. That service ended shortly after 9-11; many of the flights were soon replaced with CRJ. I recall booking a (really cheap) flight via CVG specifically to fly on the 763. In the pre-smart phone days I didn't keep track of all my schedule changes and didn't realize until I got to CVG -- and was directed to the terminal DL stole from Greyhound -- that my flight had been downgauged to a CRJ. A morning flight from a 600+ flight hub into MCO on the then-largest airline into MCO... operated by a CRJ.

Nearly all of the CRJ service would later be cut during DL's bankruptcy. DL has since restored seasonal, Saturday-only service to numerous markets, but I doubt they'll expand beyond that. Ultimately, while MCO receives a lot of business travel, it's still a low-yielding market and DL is now chasing fare premiums. In the 1990s and 2000s, the legacies held onto as much MCO real estate as possible to prevent the LCC from expanding (MCO responded by opening ticket counters on the arrival level of the terminal). But in today's world, DL doesn't care if WN, B6, NK of F9 carry the persons who want to save a buck or two...
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
User avatar
spinotter
Posts: 488
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 4:12 pm

EBiafore99 wrote:
My two cents:

1. Elimination of RJ services - that's been a common theme with DL throughout it's network. DL has been upgrading aircraft, especially the RJ200's.
2. Pulled DL flights for today (Tuesday):
AMS - 1
ATL - 16
BOS - 3
CVG - 2
DTW - 6
IND - 1
LAX - 3
JFK - 4
LGA - 6
RDU - 3
SLC - 2
SEA - 1
Everything, save IND, is to a hub or focus city. There's nothing to indicate that MCO is becoming a focus city

3. Skyteam, like the other alliances, want the members to be close. The moving is most likely for convenience and space was available rather than any special reason.


None to MSP? Hard to believe.
 
Flyingstump
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:43 am

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 4:34 pm

flyinghippo wrote:
I don't think it will amount to anything other than a leisure destination for DL. It's way too close to ATL to develop any meaningful connections and does not have enough O&D traffic to sustain any major expansion.


Although you may be right about it being just a leisure destination for DL, could you explain your statement on O&D? MCO was the 10th busiest airport by passenger volume last year, edging out metro areas with 1 major airport such as CLT, PHX, BOS, MSP, DTW, and PHL, and MCO did this without the large amount of connecting traffic those areas enjoy. It may not be business traffic, but there is certainly a significant amount of O&D traffic. (And, yes, I'm aware of the competition any carrier would face in trying to establish MCO as a hub)
 
EBiafore99
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: Delta & MCO ...what next?

Wed May 01, 2019 5:04 pm

spinotter wrote:
EBiafore99 wrote:
My two cents:

1. Elimination of RJ services - that's been a common theme with DL throughout it's network. DL has been upgrading aircraft, especially the RJ200's.
2. Pulled DL flights for today (Tuesday):
AMS - 1
ATL - 16
BOS - 3
CVG - 2
DTW - 6
IND - 1
LAX - 3
JFK - 4
LGA - 6
RDU - 3
SLC - 2
SEA - 1
Everything, save IND, is to a hub or focus city. There's nothing to indicate that MCO is becoming a focus city

3. Skyteam, like the other alliances, want the members to be close. The moving is most likely for convenience and space was available rather than any special reason.


None to MSP? Hard to believe.


Forgot MSP -4 daily. Sorry!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos