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seabosdca
Posts: 6462
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

Re: DL, why no B77W?

Fri May 03, 2019 7:32 pm

Acquiring a few 77W as 744 replacements would have been easy enough, but the green eyeshades decided that the airline could make more money with A350s. That's pretty much it.

I'm sure the flexibility of smaller aircraft played a part in that calculation, but I'm also sure that attractive pricing from Airbus and the worse efficiency of the 77W factored into it.

Now, if Delta decides it really wants that sort of capacity, it can easily order some A350-1000 or convert its second tranche of A350s to the -1000.
 
WorldFlier
Posts: 307
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:10 pm

Re: DL, why no B77W?

Mon May 06, 2019 1:30 pm

Motorhussy wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:
Motorhussy wrote:
It’ll be interesting to see if they eventually find a fit for the A350-1000 in their fleet now the 77W is obsolete.


What? The 777-300ER is obsolete?

You may want to tell that to United. You know, I'm sure they like their brand new, ridiculously discounted*, 777-300ERs.

I would be shocked if the CASM advantage of the A350-1000 was that significant over the 777-300ER when you consider the purchase price disparity (i.e Airbus probably isn't deeply discounting the A350s). Also fleet and pilot commonality as well as the ability to swap 300s and 200s if your Front section either oversells or doesn't sell well...

*I have no proof that they are ridiculously discounted except for the fact that a) United always gets big discounts and b) Boeing was desperate to fill the gap so they wouldn't ridiculous money between now and 777X production


We’re talking about DL here not UA, and they already operate the A339 and A359. To them the 77W is obsolete now because of the option of the A351.



You implied the 77W was obsolete for everyone. Obsolete is the wrong word...you may want to consider using "redundant" or "not optimal"
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3584
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

Re: DL, why no B77W?

Mon May 06, 2019 7:05 pm

WorldFlier wrote:
Motorhussy wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:

What? The 777-300ER is obsolete?

You may want to tell that to United. You know, I'm sure they like their brand new, ridiculously discounted*, 777-300ERs.

I would be shocked if the CASM advantage of the A350-1000 was that significant over the 777-300ER when you consider the purchase price disparity (i.e Airbus probably isn't deeply discounting the A350s). Also fleet and pilot commonality as well as the ability to swap 300s and 200s if your Front section either oversells or doesn't sell well...

*I have no proof that they are ridiculously discounted except for the fact that a) United always gets big discounts and b) Boeing was desperate to fill the gap so they wouldn't ridiculous money between now and 777X production


We’re talking about DL here not UA, and they already operate the A339 and A359. To them the 77W is obsolete now because of the option of the A351.



You implied the 77W was obsolete for everyone. Obsolete is the wrong word...you may want to consider using "redundant" or "not optimal"


Is the 77W still being offered?
come visit the south pacific
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3812
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: DL, why no B77W?

Mon May 06, 2019 7:29 pm

StudiodeKadent wrote:
KFTG wrote:
How is the 77W (an aircraft currently in production and receiving warranty support through Boeing) "obsolete"?


Its obsolete in the sense that the A350-1000 can play the exact same role in a fleet, but at much lower cost.

and the A3510 is less expensive than a 77W? I think you need to prove that! I like Airbus and I can't buy that!!
 
hereandthere41
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:31 am

Re: DL, why no B77W?

Mon May 06, 2019 7:54 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
Just based on DLs route structure, they dont need anything bigger than a 777/A359. Their fortress hubs arent big international cities like IAH and DFW are. Yeah the likes of MSP and DTW are large in their own right, but DL loves to offer frequency. No other US airline hub has 4+ dailies to AMS like DLs biggest hubs do, yeah they have AF/KL on the other side, but compare that to UA which has really no more than 2 daily from their hubs (save LAX and EWR) on JV metal. AA squeaks by with multiple dailies from their hubs to LHR because of BA and Londons massive demand to anywhere.

If DL decides to go bigger, it will probably be the A35J; same category as the 77W but a generation newer, and DL isnt a big 777 operator to start with.

LAX-SYD is a matter of time. The true question is can the A350 do ATL-JNB without a relatively big payload hit or special tires like DLs 77Ls have.


UA has 5xdaily EWR-LHR, 3X IAD-LHR, 3X ORD-LHR, not to mention 2x IAH, 2x SFO, 1xLAX,1x DEN. And that's WITHOUT a JV on the other hand. Could DL manage 4x DTW-AMS without KL feed on the other end? Probably not.
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1535
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: DL, why no B77W?

Mon May 06, 2019 8:14 pm

IWMBH wrote:
On which route do you think that DL needs an aircraft like the 77W that can't be done via their partners?

ATL - LAX / SFO
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
User avatar
compensateme
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: DL, why no B77W?

Mon May 06, 2019 8:47 pm

hereandthere41 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Just based on DLs route structure, they dont need anything bigger than a 777/A359. Their fortress hubs arent big international cities like IAH and DFW are. Yeah the likes of MSP and DTW are large in their own right, but DL loves to offer frequency. No other US airline hub has 4+ dailies to AMS like DLs biggest hubs do, yeah they have AF/KL on the other side, but compare that to UA which has really no more than 2 daily from their hubs (save LAX and EWR) on JV metal. AA squeaks by with multiple dailies from their hubs to LHR because of BA and Londons massive demand to anywhere.

If DL decides to go bigger, it will probably be the A35J; same category as the 77W but a generation newer, and DL isnt a big 777 operator to start with.

LAX-SYD is a matter of time. The true question is can the A350 do ATL-JNB without a relatively big payload hit or special tires like DLs 77Ls have.


UA has 5xdaily EWR-LHR, 3X IAD-LHR, 3X ORD-LHR, not to mention 2x IAH, 2x SFO, 1xLAX,1x DEN. And that's WITHOUT a JV on the other hand. Could DL manage 4x DTW-AMS without KL feed on the other end? Probably not.


Go United! (But are we seriously comparing AMS to LHR?)
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
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seabosdca
Posts: 6462
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

Re: DL, why no B77W?

Mon May 06, 2019 8:51 pm

Motorhussy wrote:
Is the 77W still being offered?


They've sold a few so far in 2019, and I wouldn't think there would be any reason to quit offering them in the short term, while interior parts are still being made (there are still quite a few left on order). The 77F will be available for a while, too.

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