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mozart
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DPS as a hub for Indonesian airlines

Wed May 01, 2019 10:39 am

I wonder whether there are any Indonesian airlines operating scheduled commercial flights (so I am sort of excluding Susi Air) that do not serve DPS? But still DPS isn't really a hub for them, is it?

In fact I have the impression that the idea of "hub" with schedules that are set up in a way to allow for connections doesn't really exist in Indonesia, or am I wrong?
 
Motorhussy
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Re: DPS as a hub for Indonesian airlines

Wed May 01, 2019 10:56 am

Jakarta and Denpasar would both be domestic hubs for GA, supported with its international flights.
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BestWestern
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Re: DPS as a hub for Indonesian airlines

Wed May 01, 2019 11:13 am

Bali has little to no originating traffic, so very difficult to operate a profitable hub. Most of the five hour flying distance is ocean, especially east bound.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: DPS as a hub for Indonesian airlines

Wed May 01, 2019 11:32 am

Well, I would not say DPS is not a “hub” for the like of GA. DPS is definitely the gateway for the whole Lesser Sunda Islands chain.

Malindo Air, the Malaysia subsidiary of Lion Air, also use DPS as the gateway to all the Australian destinations (i.e. all the Australia flights are routed KUL-DPS-Australia).

Yes, CGK will be by far the largest hub no matter what. Indonesia is quite large geographically, though, and even domestic flights alone required a regional hub. UPG would be the other one - i.e. gateway to the rest of Sulawesi along with the Malukus.
 
dirk88
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Re: DPS as a hub for Indonesian airlines

Wed May 01, 2019 11:40 am

Garuda definitely has connecting traffic over Denpasar. While Makassar might play a bigger role in connecting traffic to east Indonesia, If you want to go from non-Jakarta Java to Lombok/Sumba/Flores/West Timor, it's likely you would be connecting over DPS.

DPS even gets a bit of Europe-Australia traffic. KLM sells tickets combining their AMS-SIN-DPS flight with Garuda flights from DPS to Sydney/Melbourne/Brisbane. Or search for flights Seoul-Sydney. Garuda sells ICN-DPS-SYD, and probably quite a few other North-east-asia <-> Australia combinations over DPS.
 
dirk88
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Re: DPS as a hub for Indonesian airlines

Wed May 01, 2019 11:52 am

BestWestern wrote:
Bali has little to no originating traffic, so very difficult to operate a profitable hub. Most of the five hour flying distance is ocean, especially east bound.


But shitloads of inbound traffic.

I would believe a more serious connecting hub than DPS is now would have a chance of success, O&D to all of these destinations exists, returns are possible within 24 hours and if you would leave Bali just before midnight you would have convenient flight times both ways from most of those destinations:

Image
 
BestWestern
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Re: DPS as a hub for Indonesian airlines

Wed May 01, 2019 11:57 am

Jakarta is the powerhouse of Indonesia. Surabaya next. DPS is a tourist destination and is a hub in the same way HNL is.

Asking if Bali should be a hub is the same as asking if TFS should be a hub. A city do lots of traffic and accidental international hub opportunities

GA do offer HKG - DPS - Australia connection, and its a superb way to get there, but the take up is marginal. Bali is strong enough internationally not to have to worry about building a hub schedule. The airport doesn’t have the Infrastructure for it either.
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Weatherwatcher1
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Re: DPS as a hub for Indonesian airlines

Wed May 01, 2019 1:02 pm

While theoretically possible, I believe airlines are better served focusing on fleet utilization and matching demand to DPS than creating a hub with departure banks.

Garuda has an extensive network, but inbound flights arrive at all times of the day. There is a decent departure bank for outbound redeye flights, but to try to coordinate the inbound flights would result in a significant drop in utilization. Connecting traffic is also lower yielding and takes up double the seats.

I believe Garuda is going to earn more selling ICN-DPS and SYD-DPS roundtrips than try to compete for ICN-SYD traffic. In general the fares for ICN/NRT/PEK/SYD-DPS are around $500-800 round trip with good advanced purchase. Connecting fares between Australia and China/Korea/Japan are similar in price. So to get that connecting traffic, Garuda would use up two seats to get the same revenue. It doesn’t make business sense to schedule flights around that market. Garuda can dump some excess capacity on the market to fill seats with connecting traffic on long layovers, but a hub is not likely to be profitable
 
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c933103
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Re: DPS as a hub for Indonesian airlines

Wed May 01, 2019 1:09 pm

With CGK, SIN, KUL, or even BKK, MNL, HKG, CAN only slightly further away, I can't see DPS attract that much more connecting traffic, especially when Australia and New Zealand doesn't have that much small cities to connect to that can only make work with narrowbodies, and smaller destination in the two countries are mostly leisure destinations that I don't think there are that much demand between different leisure destinations.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: DPS as a hub for Indonesian airlines

Wed May 01, 2019 1:20 pm

I will just concur with what a few people already said - if you're looking for a MUC-style hub (vs. FRA; much like how it's DPS vs. CGK for GA), then you're out of luck. DPS only has that single runway and is busy enough as-is due to the huge amount of inbound traffic.

dirk88 wrote:
Garuda definitely has connecting traffic over Denpasar. While Makassar might play a bigger role in connecting traffic to east Indonesia, If you want to go from non-Jakarta Java to Lombok/Sumba/Flores/West Timor, it's likely you would be connecting over DPS.


Or even when you're heading from Jakarta to some places in the Lesser Sunda Islands chain. Heading to BMU (Bima) or MOF (Maumere) or the entire Sumba Island? You'll have to connect at DPS. Hack, it's probably easier to just connect at DPS heading to places like LBJ (Labuanbajo, gateway to Komodo NP) than flying direct from CGK.
 
TheEuphorian
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Re: DPS as a hub for Indonesian airlines

Thu May 02, 2019 12:30 am

Well, even SUB or KNO has more hub possibilities for GA(and QG/SJ/IN) and JT(and IW/ID).
 
dirk88
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Re: DPS as a hub for Indonesian airlines

Thu May 02, 2019 8:22 am

TheEuphorian wrote:
Well, even SUB or KNO has more hub possibilities for GA(and QG/SJ/IN) and JT(and IW/ID).

Considering KNO, I find it really surprising no one, not even Air Asia or Lion, is offering a direct flight between Bali & Medan. North Sumatra has 14 million inhabitants, Bali 4 million, there's tons of Sumatrans living in Bali and tourists could combine Bali & a visit to the Toba region.The only way to travel between the two is by connecting (through CGK/YOG/KUL/SIN). I guess the airlines did the math, but still surprised there isn't enough demand for a daily direct.
 
mandala499
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Re: DPS as a hub for Indonesian airlines

Thu May 02, 2019 2:29 pm

mozart wrote:
I wonder whether there are any Indonesian airlines operating scheduled commercial flights (so I am sort of excluding Susi Air) that do not serve DPS? But still DPS isn't really a hub for them, is it?

Batik Air didn't serve Bali for a while, it didn't fit their initial strategy... but it was inevitable that they'd end up serving DPS and have flights to destinations other than CGK...

Bali is the connecting hub for south east Indonesia. Garuda and Lion has their ATR operations there connecting with the jet operations. However, the volume of that sector is not big, and the larger cities in the south east are traditionally connected by jets with CGK and Surabaya.

dirk88 wrote:
I would believe a more serious connecting hub than DPS is now would have a chance of success, O&D to all of these destinations exists, returns are possible within 24 hours and if you would leave Bali just before midnight you would have convenient flight times both ways from most of those destinations:

The problem is that Bali would have ran out of parking and runway slots end of last year if it wasn't for the apron expansion and accelerated runway repairs. However it's single runway is running out of convenient slots...

BestWestern wrote:
Jakarta is the powerhouse of Indonesia. Surabaya next. DPS is a tourist destination and is a hub in the same way HNL is

One anomaly is that yields to/from DPS is usually higher than SUB...
SUB is also running out of space, and a very ambitious expansion plan has been put forward, with the usual controversies.

Tourists hate going via Jakarta, and preferred going via Bali. Connecting in CGK can be a nightmare, and if you get a connection through HLP, you might aswell forget it. However, the new Yogyakarta Airport (WAHI/YIA) may provide tourists with a new gateway to go to various destinations within central and eastern Indonesia, and the non-tourist O&D demand is reasonably high. If the developments doesn't face any major screw ups, YIA may catch up with SUB or DPS... YIA and SUB has a better chance to developing into a MUC style hub rather than DPS...
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NZ321
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Re: DPS as a hub for Indonesian airlines

Thu May 02, 2019 3:58 pm

I sincerely hope Bali DPS doesn't become a hub. It is already overloaded on multiple levels. Just leave it as it is and look to a new airport in Surabaya.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: DPS as a hub for Indonesian airlines

Thu May 02, 2019 4:07 pm

NZ321 wrote:
I sincerely hope Bali DPS doesn't become a hub. It is already overloaded on multiple levels. Just leave it as it is and look to a new airport in Surabaya.


Or the new (planned) Bali Airport:
https://www.gapurabali.com/news/2019/01 ... 1546572674

With Indonesian aviation growing like crazy, perhaps we'll see an airport building boom similar to the one in PRC last decade (and still ongoing).
 
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lightsaber
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Re: DPS as a hub for Indonesian airlines

Thu May 02, 2019 4:13 pm

c933103 wrote:
With CGK, SIN, KUL, or even BKK, MNL, HKG, CAN only slightly further away, I can't see DPS attract that much more connecting traffic, especially when Australia and New Zealand doesn't have that much small cities to connect to that can only make work with narrowbodies, and smaller destination in the two countries are mostly leisure destinations that I don't think there are that much demand between different leisure destinations.

Agreed. Comparing to HNL is appropriate. They will connect, but only for a few destinations.

SUB and Jakarta (CGK) really need to expand

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BestWestern
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Re: DPS as a hub for Indonesian airlines

Thu May 02, 2019 5:45 pm

The new T3 in Jakarta is a real let down. Surprised that the building quality is so poor and the wayfinding is stuck in the ‘80s. I know the Koreans week involved in Jakarta, but not sure if they were there just to be blamed

Bali’s terminal is super in many regards. Surabaya is great, as is Balikpapan.
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BestWestern
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Re: DPS as a hub for Indonesian airlines

Thu May 02, 2019 5:46 pm

Surabaya has international traffic, but so much of it is low value migrant worker traffic.

The duty free went bankrupt due to the passenger mix. Not enough Bule to buy L’occitaine from the German Duty Free company.
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Guillaume787
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Re: DPS as a hub for Indonesian airlines

Sat May 04, 2019 2:28 am

NZ321 wrote:
I sincerely hope Bali DPS doesn't become a hub. It is already overloaded on multiple levels. Just leave it as it is and look to a new airport in Surabaya.


Agreed. I arrived 2:30pm on Thursday to DPS and it took me 3 hours to clear immigration. Only 4 agents working the desks for more than 500+ people arriving in multiple flights at that time. :banghead:

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