dcajet
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European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Wed May 01, 2019 4:18 pm

Air Europa, Air France and Iberia have cancelled their flights to Caracas today, May 1st. Iberia and Air Europa have also alerted their customers that flights for the upcoming days could also be cancelled.

Yesterday's Air France CDG-CCS made a u-turn over the ocean and returned to Paris.

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/statu ... 44/photo/1

Only AF, UX, IB, TK, TP, CM, CU, PU & BW continue to offer service to Venezuela from abroad.
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LH658
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Re: European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Wed May 01, 2019 6:15 pm

Why did AF turn around?
 
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spinkid
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Re: European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Wed May 01, 2019 6:27 pm

I'm surprised that many were still operating. Is anyone left overnighting their crew in CCS? We had a recent thread about this.

Maybe AF was still closer to Paris to just make a U Turn rather than divert. I would assume they returned due to security issues brought on by the current civil unrest in CCS. It was probably easier to reaccommodate those pax in Paris than take them to say FDF or PTP and put them up in hotels there.
 
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spinkid
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Re: European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Wed May 01, 2019 6:33 pm

Here is the other thread. Carriers were swapping crew in PUJ and HAV after an Air Europa crew was caught in gunfire.

https://simpleflying.com/air-europa-cre ... -gunpoint/


viewtopic.php?t=1417589&p=21168201
 
ScottB
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Re: European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Wed May 01, 2019 6:39 pm

LH658 wrote:
Why did AF turn around?


Because it's probably a better idea to just return home rather than potentially face a situation where the military has closed the airport and then try to figure out what to do with 250 passengers who are stuck in AUA/CUR/BON/POS after they've had to divert the aircraft. AF will have much better infrastructure for dealing with stranded passengers in Paris.

Plus you really don't want to send an aircraft worth 8 figures into an area where the military might start using weapons bigger than machine guns, and you certainly don't want to risk getting your crews stuck in the middle of a civil war/coup.
 
dcajet
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Re: European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Wed May 01, 2019 10:43 pm

spinkid wrote:
I'm surprised that many were still operating. Is anyone left overnighting their crew in CCS?


To the best of my recollection, only Turkish Airlines and Plus Ultra are the only airlines left whose flight crews layover at CCS. Mind you they do not stay in Caracas proper, but in beach resorts near the airport.

Today's situation is an extreme, but Caracas as a layover destination has been rough for at least a decade now. When the Aerolineas Argentinas crew overnighted there, until 2016, they did so at one of the Melia resorts there, and if they wanted to leave the property to go somewhere the Purser and the Captain had to know about it, etc.
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Alitalia744
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Re: European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Wed May 01, 2019 10:55 pm

dcajet wrote:
spinkid wrote:
I'm surprised that many were still operating. Is anyone left overnighting their crew in CCS?


To the best of my recollection, only Turkish Airlines and Plus Ultra are the only airlines left whose flight crews layover at CCS. Mind you they do not stay in Caracas proper, but in beach resorts near the airport.

Today's situation is an extreme, but Caracas as a layover destination has been rough for at least a decade now. When the Aerolineas Argentinas crew overnighted there, until 2016, they did so at one of the Melia resorts there, and if they wanted to leave the property to go somewhere the Purser and the Captain had to know about it, etc.


Where do AF people layover? The flight seems to originate in CCS...
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dcajet
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Re: European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Wed May 01, 2019 11:03 pm

Alitalia744 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
spinkid wrote:
I'm surprised that many were still operating. Is anyone left overnighting their crew in CCS?


To the best of my recollection, only Turkish Airlines and Plus Ultra are the only airlines left whose flight crews layover at CCS. Mind you they do not stay in Caracas proper, but in beach resorts near the airport.

Today's situation is an extreme, but Caracas as a layover destination has been rough for at least a decade now. When the Aerolineas Argentinas crew overnighted there, until 2016, they did so at one of the Melia resorts there, and if they wanted to leave the property to go somewhere the Purser and the Captain had to know about it, etc.


Where do AF people layover? The flight seems to originate in CCS...


Martinique; Iberia at Santo Domingo, Air Europa at Punta Cana and TAP at Curacao.
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LatinAirliner
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Re: European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Wed May 01, 2019 11:34 pm

dcajet wrote:
Alitalia744 wrote:
dcajet wrote:

To the best of my recollection, only Turkish Airlines and Plus Ultra are the only airlines left whose flight crews layover at CCS. Mind you they do not stay in Caracas proper, but in beach resorts near the airport.

Today's situation is an extreme, but Caracas as a layover destination has been rough for at least a decade now. When the Aerolineas Argentinas crew overnighted there, until 2016, they did so at one of the Melia resorts there, and if they wanted to leave the property to go somewhere the Purser and the Captain had to know about it, etc.


Where do AF people layover? The flight seems to originate in CCS...


Martinique; Iberia at Santo Domingo, Air Europa at Punta Cana and TAP at Curacao.


I don't know why those airlines insist on flying to CCS, for sure is because yields are high, I don't know. But with all those security issues, adding one stop to the flight, which increases their operational costs. Why do they keep trying?

They are really looking for some trouble pushing it too deep.
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dcajet
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Re: European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Wed May 01, 2019 11:51 pm

LatinAirliner wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Alitalia744 wrote:

Where do AF people layover? The flight seems to originate in CCS...


Martinique; Iberia at Santo Domingo, Air Europa at Punta Cana and TAP at Curacao.


I don't know why those airlines insist on flying to CCS, for sure is because yields are high, I don't know. But with all those security issues, adding one stop to the flight, which increases their operational costs. Why do they keep trying?

They are really looking for some trouble pushing it too deep.


1. Airlines like AF and IB have corporate security departments that assess risks associated with their operations. They have done their homework and concluded that it is still possible to operate at CCS within reasonable conditions. If conditions deteriorate further, you will see them cancel ops there in the blink of an eye.

2. Take IAG, Iberia's owner. Zero tolerance for losses. Do you think for a second that if they would be losing money in CCS they would still be there, out of charity to the Venezuelan people that may wish/need to travel or get the hell out of there? Supply is low, demand for travel from Venezuela (not to Venezuela) is high. What is not to like if they have the calculated tolerance to operate in the current Venezuela environment?

3. I don't include TK in the above as by most accounts there are a lot of politics surrounding TK's flight to CCS.
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marcoantona
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Re: European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Wed May 01, 2019 11:57 pm

LatinAirliner wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Alitalia744 wrote:

Where do AF people layover? The flight seems to originate in CCS...


Martinique; Iberia at Santo Domingo, Air Europa at Punta Cana and TAP at Curacao.


I don't know why those airlines insist on flying to CCS, for sure is because yields are high, I don't know. But with all those security issues, adding one stop to the flight, which increases their operational costs. Why do they keep trying?

They are really looking for some trouble pushing it too deep.


Doing a quick search for a round trip CCS-MAD with Air Europa in August the cheapest fare I find is €760; as a reference an EZE-MAD flight around same dates, is €699.

So I think there you have the reason why they insist on flying. Plus there are huge amount of no-shows on the return flights. So they are getting money for passengers they are not flying.
 
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spinkid
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Re: European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Thu May 02, 2019 12:07 am

and if there are NO flights in and out, how do people escape? or return to protect their family and property? Its obviously not a place most of us want to be right now, so people will pay what they need to travel there.

I'd guess very few people are weighing the pros and cons of Venezuela vs Colombia based on the attractions, exchange rate and cost of flight.
 
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WALmsp
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Re: European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Thu May 02, 2019 1:29 am

dcajet wrote:
LatinAirliner wrote:
dcajet wrote:

Martinique; Iberia at Santo Domingo, Air Europa at Punta Cana and TAP at Curacao.


I don't know why those airlines insist on flying to CCS, for sure is because yields are high, I don't know. But with all those security issues, adding one stop to the flight, which increases their operational costs. Why do they keep trying?

They are really looking for some trouble pushing it too deep.


3. I don't include TK in the above as by most accounts there are a lot of politics surrounding TK's flight to CCS.



I'm curious now. What's going on with TK and CCS?
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dcajet
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Re: European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Thu May 02, 2019 1:37 am

spinkid wrote:
and if there are NO flights in and out, how do people escape? or return to protect their family and property? Its obviously not a place most of us want to be right now, so people will pay what they need to travel there.

I'd guess very few people are weighing the pros and cons of Venezuela vs Colombia based on the attractions, exchange rate and cost of flight.


Flying out of Venezuela has long stopped being an option for many Venezuelans. They simply don't have the dollars or Euros to pay for the tickets nor access to foreign credit cards. International airlines stopped taking Bolivares a couple of years ago. Of course, there are still folks with plenty of money in Venezuela for which traveling is still not a problem. And surprisingly enough, the regime has not yet directly stopped people from freely leaving or entering the country. There were reports that getting a passport issued was a nightmare not that long ago but I am not sure where that currently stands.

So how do the less privileged leave? By road, bus, walking, combination of plane and bus if they go to Argentina via Brazil, etc. Or bus via Colombia and Ecuador to Peru or Chile. A real humanitarian crisis.
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dcajet
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Re: European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Thu May 02, 2019 1:43 am

WALmsp wrote:
dcajet wrote:
LatinAirliner wrote:

I don't know why those airlines insist on flying to CCS, for sure is because yields are high, I don't know. But with all those security issues, adding one stop to the flight, which increases their operational costs. Why do they keep trying?

They are really looking for some trouble pushing it too deep.


3. I don't include TK in the above as by most accounts there are a lot of politics surrounding TK's flight to CCS.



I'm curious now. What's going on with TK and CCS?


You are aware that Turkey, Russia and China are the main supporters of the regime. Word in the industry is that the flight is more a show of political support from Turkey than a sound commercial flight. It has also become chavismo's preferred method of transportation when it comes to intercontinental travel via Istanbul, where they won't be hassled (them or their ill-gotten gains) by the local authorities under Erdogan. Rather welcome.
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TWA772LR
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Re: European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Thu May 02, 2019 2:35 am

spinkid wrote:
and if there are NO flights in and out, how do people escape? or return to protect their family and property? Its obviously not a place most of us want to be right now, so people will pay what they need to travel there.

I'd guess very few people are weighing the pros and cons of Venezuela vs Colombia based on the attractions, exchange rate and cost of flight.

If people find ways to leave North Korea, they can sure as Hell find ways to leave Venezuela.

Back to the OP, it says that even though IB, AF, et al are leaving CCS, the OP still mentions that IB, AF, et al are the only airlines to take people abroad from CCS. Which is it?
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STLflyer
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Re: European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Thu May 02, 2019 3:35 am

dcajet wrote:
Alitalia744 wrote:
dcajet wrote:

To the best of my recollection, only Turkish Airlines and Plus Ultra are the only airlines left whose flight crews layover at CCS. Mind you they do not stay in Caracas proper, but in beach resorts near the airport.

Today's situation is an extreme, but Caracas as a layover destination has been rough for at least a decade now. When the Aerolineas Argentinas crew overnighted there, until 2016, they did so at one of the Melia resorts there, and if they wanted to leave the property to go somewhere the Purser and the Captain had to know about it, etc.


Where do AF people layover? The flight seems to originate in CCS...


Martinique; Iberia at Santo Domingo, Air Europa at Punta Cana and TAP at Curacao.

How are AF crews getting to Martinique? It looks like the plane does CDG-CCS-CDG
 
dcajet
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Re: European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Thu May 02, 2019 3:39 am

STLflyer wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Alitalia744 wrote:

Where do AF people layover? The flight seems to originate in CCS...


Martinique; Iberia at Santo Domingo, Air Europa at Punta Cana and TAP at Curacao.

How are AF crews getting to Martinique? It looks like the plane does CDG-CCS-CDG


Tech stop at FDF for crew change. Same as the others mentioned above.
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WALmsp
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Re: European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Thu May 02, 2019 4:56 am

dcajet wrote:
WALmsp wrote:
dcajet wrote:

3. I don't include TK in the above as by most accounts there are a lot of politics surrounding TK's flight to CCS.



I'm curious now. What's going on with TK and CCS?


You are aware that Turkey, Russia and China are the main supporters of the regime. Word in the industry is that the flight is more a show of political support from Turkey than a sound commercial flight. It has also become chavismo's preferred method of transportation when it comes to intercontinental travel via Istanbul, where they won't be hassled (them or their ill-gotten gains) by the local authorities under Erdogan. Rather welcome.


Got it, thanks
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ptwings
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Re: European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Thu May 02, 2019 7:31 am

Even Turkish Airlines probably change their crew in Havana, I doubt they stay in Caracas too. Not sure of course

TK183
IST-HAV-CCS-IST
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/tk183
 
MalevTU134
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Re: European airlines cancel CCS operations today

Thu May 02, 2019 11:19 am

ptwings wrote:
Even Turkish Airlines probably change their crew in Havana, I doubt they stay in Caracas too. Not sure of course

TK183
IST-HAV-CCS-IST
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/tk183

They stay at both HAV and CCS.

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