behramjee
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Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Wed May 01, 2019 4:34 pm

Etihad Airways announces LHR-AUH increased from 3 to 4 daily nonstop flights effective 26May on a permanent basis.

An additional 5th daily flight will operate only for the peak summer period ie 23Jun-28sep. Two flights will depart AUH 0200-0300, one at 0800 and the other two at 1300-1400.

So basically they have taken over the two ex 9W slots whilst the third one is leased out to Air Serbia.
 
jasoncrh
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Wed May 01, 2019 6:26 pm

good news - is there a link/ press release?
Also, this is changed a bit - they had had two departures in the 0800 bank - like a 0730 departure and an 0800/0830 departure, in the last few weeks. two at the 1300/1400 time seems tough, as there really is very little feed into that bank (besides India, which I guess could work?)
either way, thanks for the update
 
Armodeen
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Wed May 01, 2019 7:12 pm

What types are the new flights operated by?
 
jaysan
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Wed May 01, 2019 7:31 pm

Departures out of LHR:
09:30
09:35
1500
2045
2120

Departures out of AUH:
02:10
02:50
08:10
13:15
14:05

3 380s and 2 787, not the most ideal schedule.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Wed May 01, 2019 9:52 pm

Good use of the slots. They have months to plan for the winter slot use. Interesting.

Lightsaber
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a350lover
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Wed May 01, 2019 10:15 pm

Do you think we could see Etihad at some point launching any second airport in the area of London? In other words, Gatwick? Having up to 5 frequencies daily from Heathrow sounds good. However, being 2+2 of them pretty much within a timelapse of just 5-20mins don't know if it's ideal.
 
Turnhouse1
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Wed May 01, 2019 10:24 pm

a350lover wrote:
Do you think we could see Etihad at some point launching any second airport in the area of London? In other words, Gatwick? Having up to 5 frequencies daily from Heathrow sounds good. However, being 2+2 of them pretty much within a timelapse of just 5-20mins don't know if it's ideal.


The timing for all airlines in the Gulf is that there are essentially 3 slots per day where they connect with onward flights to Australia etc. So there isn't really any point in operating flights at other times as you would just be sitting around in AUH for hours.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Wed May 01, 2019 11:20 pm

That flight has been operating on and off since Christmas. Can’t just be the Jet Airways slots?
 
edealinfo
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Wed May 01, 2019 11:50 pm

lightsaber wrote:
They have months to plan for the winter slot use.
Lightsaber


Care to explain? If they are already using it for summer, what more do they need to plan for winter? And what planning would it involve. if you provide an example it will help.
 
myki
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Thu May 02, 2019 6:01 am

Still no press release / announcement on this, however it makes sense that it would happen ... especially with LHR's "use it or lose it" policy.
 
Andy33
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Thu May 02, 2019 6:51 am

edealinfo wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
They have months to plan for the winter slot use.
Lightsaber


Care to explain? If they are already using it for summer, what more do they need to plan for winter? And what planning would it involve. if you provide an example it will help.


Heathrow Airport slots are different in the IATA summer season and the IATA winter season. There was a real urgency to finding alternative flights once the 3 slot pairs being used by Jet Airways were repossessed by Etihad. If alternative flights had not been put in place by the end of this month, under LHR's use-it-or-lose-it rule the summer period slots would be forfeited permanently, without any compensation, so losing the capital value of the slots as shown in Etihad's accounts.

. So one pair is being used by JU and two pairs by EY itself. Now many airlines are interested in LHR slots, and for the winter period (and next summer onwards) there will be plenty of time to strike favourable deals with them, but few airlines would have been in a position to set up extra flights for the whole 2019 summer season at less than a month's notice. Etihad have done what they can with what was available. They may not actually want two extra flights a day between AUH and LHR at these particular timings, but they will get some revenue and keep the value of the slots.
In winter 2019/20 we may find that Etihad use all the slots, or some of the slots are leased to other airlines, or they use some of the ex-Jet slots and lease out ones that were EY already. They've bought time.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Thu May 02, 2019 6:59 am

slot sitting.....
 
myki
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Thu May 02, 2019 8:37 am

myki wrote:
Still no press release / announcement on this, however it makes sense that it would happen ... especially with LHR's "use it or lose it" policy.

... ok here we go :)

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -may-2019/
 
Dominion301
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Fri May 03, 2019 2:40 am

I’m guessing AC are getting an exemption from the use-it-or-lose-it policy for YYT & YHZ due to the MAX grounding?
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Fri May 03, 2019 7:35 am

Adding 2 more flights per day on London-Abu Dhabi at short notice sounds like a recipe to lose a load of money - I imagine that either yield or load factor will be lousy for the next few months

Would it be less of a loss-maker to subsidise Flybe to operate a flight from LHR on a much shorter route with a small aircraft (eg Dash 8) to maybe Exeter as a slot sitter for a few months instead ?
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Fri May 03, 2019 9:14 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Adding 2 more flights per day on London-Abu Dhabi at short notice sounds like a recipe to lose a load of money - I imagine that either yield or load factor will be lousy for the next few months

Would it be less of a loss-maker to subsidise Flybe to operate a flight from LHR on a much shorter route with a small aircraft (eg Dash 8) to maybe Exeter as a slot sitter for a few months instead ?


Etihad don't have anything to do with Flybe hence they need to use them along with the other slots going to Air Serbia. They probably haven't had time to negotiate with other airlines about leasing the slots. We might see that from the winter schedule.
 
EK770
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Fri May 03, 2019 9:51 am

I think we will see EY cancelling existing services here and there on a rotating basis i.e. their existing services only need to operate 80%(?) of the time to retain the slot, so they can cancel the EY10 and move pax onto EY 12 etc etc etc, I doubt we’ll actually see five services operating on a daily basis.
 
bhxalex
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Fri May 03, 2019 9:52 am

Purely a slot sitter. It's no secret LHR is one of the few better performers for them, 2 extra flights will kill any sort of high yield they had before, especially on the two 5 minutes apart.

Quite where the slots end up is open for debate, but the recent pattern suggests they'll find their way into a Chinese carriers hands, especially the evening slots.
 
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Aisak
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Fri May 03, 2019 10:53 am

EK770 wrote:
I think we will see EY cancelling existing services here and there on a rotating basis i.e. their existing services only need to operate 80%(?) of the time to retain the slot, so they can cancel the EY10 and move pax onto EY 12 etc etc etc, I doubt we’ll actually see five services operating on a daily basis.


They have to be really cautious doing that as departures from the UK could trigger the EC261 in case of missed connections at AUH. Of course, they can combine the LHR departures at 9:30 and 9:35 with no risk, but the 20:45 and 21:20... Safer to cancel the 21:20 departure and run the 20:45 late (keeping gate open till 21:00) but still....
 
airbazar
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Fri May 03, 2019 11:24 am

They could replace the A380's with 787''s in order to try and keep the total number of daily seats from going up substantially, and deploy the A380's somewhere else.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Fri May 03, 2019 11:42 am

edealinfo wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
They have months to plan for the winter slot use.
Lightsaber


Care to explain? If they are already using it for summer, what more do they need to plan for winter? And what planning would it involve. if you provide an example it will help.

Etihad is using the returned Jet slots to keep them from expiring. In Winter, there is less demand. With EY's existing flights and these added flights, I believe they have too many seats for winter. In the mid term I expect them to again lease the slots.


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lightsaber
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Fri May 03, 2019 11:45 am

airbazar wrote:
They could replace the A380's with 787''s in order to try and keep the total number of daily seats from going up substantially, and deploy the A380's somewhere else.

Where? For a boutique airline, only LHR, JFK, PEK, and SYD would be expected to fill the A380 with enough premium passengers. Note: I exclude many other cities as either the hometown airline or a competitor has captured too much of the premium market.

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Jetty
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Fri May 03, 2019 12:54 pm

EK770 wrote:
I think we will see EY cancelling existing services here and there on a rotating basis i.e. their existing services only need to operate 80%(?) of the time to retain the slot, so they can cancel the EY10 and move pax onto EY 12 etc etc etc, I doubt we’ll actually see five services operating on a daily basis.

EY has much less leeway than the 20% they normally don't have to fly to keep their slots, as there has been quite a while where no flight using the former 9W slots was operated at all.
 
airbazar
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Fri May 03, 2019 1:12 pm

lightsaber wrote:
airbazar wrote:
They could replace the A380's with 787''s in order to try and keep the total number of daily seats from going up substantially, and deploy the A380's somewhere else.

Where? For a boutique airline, only LHR, JFK, PEK, and SYD would be expected to fill the A380 with enough premium passengers. Note: I exclude many other cities as either the hometown airline or a competitor has captured too much of the premium market.

Lightsaber


Then they just need to learn how to compete :)
They operate a 77W to both SYD and LAX. Each of those alone would require 2 frames.
I guess it a compromise: Poor LF to LHR or poor LF to LAX/SYD.
Or they can park the A380's. It's not like they're short of aircraft with all the routes they recently terminated.
 
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PerfectGriffin
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Fri May 03, 2019 1:14 pm

hmmm, they can't even fill their existing 3x daily A380's. How do they expect to fill 5x daily? Especially with a shrinking network, this move doesn't make sense financially.
 
Bhoy
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Fri May 03, 2019 1:20 pm

PerfectGriffin wrote:
hmmm, they can't even fill their existing 3x daily A380's. How do they expect to fill 5x daily? Especially with a shrinking network, this move doesn't make sense financially.

there's a bigger financial hit if the slots expire through not being used and their value is thereby wiped off their Balance Sheet.
 
mutu
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Fri May 03, 2019 2:03 pm

Interesting move: Taking CAA data for Dec 18/Jan 19/Feb 19 and pax movements between LON (LHR, LGW, STN) and each of DOH, AUH and DXB gives the following year on year movements:
LON-DOH: Dec 18: +15%, Jan 19: +16%; Feb 19: +9%
LON-AUH: Dec 18: +2%; Jan 19: +5%; Feb 19: (11)%
LON-DXB: Dec 18; (8)%; Jan 19: (8)%; Feb 19; (10)%

DXB data is all pre the April 2019 runway closure. Looks to be a strong performance over DOH and a consistently disappointing performance over DXB....AUH holding its own, with FEB looking like an anomaly as that's a big swing down out of trend.
 
a320fan
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Fri May 03, 2019 3:15 pm

mutu wrote:
Interesting move: Taking CAA data for Dec 18/Jan 19/Feb 19 and pax movements between LON (LHR, LGW, STN) and each of DOH, AUH and DXB gives the following year on year movements:
LON-DOH: Dec 18: +15%, Jan 19: +16%; Feb 19: +9%
LON-AUH: Dec 18: +2%; Jan 19: +5%; Feb 19: (11)%
LON-DXB: Dec 18; (8)%; Jan 19: (8)%; Feb 19; (10)%

DXB data is all pre the April 2019 runway closure. Looks to be a strong performance over DOH and a consistently disappointing performance over DXB....AUH holding its own, with FEB looking like an anomaly as that's a big swing down out of trend.

QF removed two DXB A380 flights last year in favour of PER and SIN stopovers, could have an effect on the numbers.
A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A380, 737-700, 737-800, 777-200ER, 777-300, 777-300ER, 787-8, Q300
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Fri May 03, 2019 5:05 pm

Bhoy wrote:
PerfectGriffin wrote:
hmmm, they can't even fill their existing 3x daily A380's. How do they expect to fill 5x daily? Especially with a shrinking network, this move doesn't make sense financially.

there's a bigger financial hit if the slots expire through not being used and their value is thereby wiped off their Balance Sheet.

I see this as short term filler to hold the slots. With the shrinking network, I assume EY really cannot profit off the A380 due to the high fraction of low margin connections.

Lightsaber
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PerfectGriffin
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Fri May 03, 2019 5:06 pm

a320fan wrote:
mutu wrote:
Interesting move: Taking CAA data for Dec 18/Jan 19/Feb 19 and pax movements between LON (LHR, LGW, STN) and each of DOH, AUH and DXB gives the following year on year movements:
LON-DOH: Dec 18: +15%, Jan 19: +16%; Feb 19: +9%
LON-AUH: Dec 18: +2%; Jan 19: +5%; Feb 19: (11)%
LON-DXB: Dec 18; (8)%; Jan 19: (8)%; Feb 19; (10)%

DXB data is all pre the April 2019 runway closure. Looks to be a strong performance over DOH and a consistently disappointing performance over DXB....AUH holding its own, with FEB looking like an anomaly as that's a big swing down out of trend.

QF removed two DXB A380 flights last year in favour of PER and SIN stopovers, could have an effect on the numbers.


Yes, that is the biggest factor. There have been significant reductions from London - DXB in 2018: 2x daily QF A380 dropped in April, 1x daily BI B787 dropped in October, and VS dropped in March 2019. EK has somewhat offset this reduction by starting a 1x daily flight to STN.
 
behramjee
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Fri May 03, 2019 6:02 pm

jaysan wrote:
Departures out of LHR:
09:30
09:35
1500
2045
2120

Departures out of AUH:
02:10
02:50
08:10
13:15
14:05

3 380s and 2 787, not the most ideal schedule.


Filling the 0210/0250 + 0930/0935 departures out of AUH and LHR respectively I don’t foresee being an issue for EY in summer season. However year round even in peak summer filling especially the 1305/1415 departures from AUH shall definitely be.

For W19 season I won’t be surprised if EY maintain 4 daily flights by doing double duty with the 0200/0930 departures.

They should approach Air India and work out a way to lease the other evening slot to them using a B77W especially now that DL is launching JFK-BOm nonstop so no need for AI to operate both BOM-EWR and BOM-JFK (which btw has done very poorly). One B77W is dedicated to operate 3 weekly BOM-JFK so they should suspend that service, focus on EWR, and use the frees up B77W to boost their own BOM-LHR service to double daily year round effective W19 season.
 
stylo777
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Fri May 03, 2019 11:16 pm

are all the comments here regarding the "inability of EY to fill 3x A380 on daily basis" or "the flights are not profitable" or similar actual proven facts or just comments thrown in?!?

and if so, of course it is not the most favorable situation to "own" a few pair of slots just minutes apart, but worth millions. nevertheless, I'm sure they'll find a suitable solution.
as some already suggested, switching aircraft types would be one solution (maybe send the A380 to places like BKK, NRT, JNB, JED, FRA, IST instead) or bringing in more Air Serbia flights on EY metal and do the slot-sitting that way.
 
myki
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Sat May 04, 2019 3:12 am

PerfectGriffin wrote:
a320fan wrote:
mutu wrote:
Interesting move: Taking CAA data for Dec 18/Jan 19/Feb 19 and pax movements between LON (LHR, LGW, STN) and each of DOH, AUH and DXB gives the following year on year movements:
LON-DOH: Dec 18: +15%, Jan 19: +16%; Feb 19: +9%
LON-AUH: Dec 18: +2%; Jan 19: +5%; Feb 19: (11)%
LON-DXB: Dec 18; (8)%; Jan 19: (8)%; Feb 19; (10)%

DXB data is all pre the April 2019 runway closure. Looks to be a strong performance over DOH and a consistently disappointing performance over DXB....AUH holding its own, with FEB looking like an anomaly as that's a big swing down out of trend.

QF removed two DXB A380 flights last year in favour of PER and SIN stopovers, could have an effect on the numbers.


Yes, that is the biggest factor. There have been significant reductions from London - DXB in 2018: 2x daily QF A380 dropped in April, 1x daily BI B787 dropped in October, and VS dropped in March 2019. EK has somewhat offset this reduction by starting a 1x daily flight to STN.

BA have also reduced LHR-AUH from daily down to 5 a week
 
airbazar
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Re: Etihad increases London Heathrow services

Sat May 04, 2019 12:36 pm

stylo777 wrote:
are all the comments here regarding the "inability of EY to fill 3x A380 on daily basis" or "the flights are not profitable" or similar actual proven facts or just comments thrown in?!?

You be the judge:
https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-u ... ed38ef8fbc
https://onemileatatime.com/etihad-2018-losses/
Massive losses and decreasing LF. Whether that applies to the LHR route we don't know but it's fair to assume that it's an across-the-board problem.

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