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Boeing74741R
Posts: 1236
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Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Fri May 03, 2019 11:20 am

Nickd92 wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
As I said earlier - goodbye to the last scheduled pax 757 and 767 service in Europe.


Jet2 still have 757's. They're getting rid of 3 this year at the end of the summer season, but the other 5 look set to continue in service for a bit longer.


There will be 8 in service. Not 5. 11 757 currently, 3 removed = 8.

Oh and whilst we are on the subject of Jet2 you need to look at their history. They've got to where they are by not buying airlines, investing in airlines that are failing, but rather letting them fail so that they can pick up the slack. XL Airways, Fly Globespan, BMI Baby, Monarch. I doubt they'll pick up a vested interest in Thomas Cook when they could just let them go and pick up the slack themselves without any of the risk.



That was a typo on my part - serves me right for not proofreading before clicking 'Submit'!

I agree with your analysis about Jet2. They have organically grown since their inception and have become a serious player in the markets they serve, particularly the holiday routes where they also have Jet2Holidays taking market share from the long-established players and can claim to be a true nationwide player if they ever choose to open a base in SW England/Wales having initially focused their business and expansion in Northern England, Northern Ireland and Scotland. This is a testament to their strategy and their success speaks for itself. I for one haven't had a bad experience flying with Jet2.

I also don't think they will swoop in for Thomas Cook and would probably prefer to pick up the slack on their own terms if it became available both in terms of seats and package holidays.Then again, some folk thought they would never buy brand new planes until they placed the order with Boeing a few years ago for some end-of-the-line 737-800's, so time will tell. My comments about Jet2 was in response to 1989worstyear's claim that Thomas Cook Group's demise from the skies (if it came to that) would automatically mean the end of 757/767 flying across Europe when in fact Jet2 still have 757's in their fleet.
Last edited by SQ22 on Tue May 07, 2019 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
f4f3a
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Re: Thomas Cook set deadline for interest in Airline.

Fri May 03, 2019 11:47 am

Personally It would be interesting if easyjet took them over . I think the It could be a really interesting to see if they would keep the wide bodies for Lh leisure routes and short haul capacity in summer . they could put the 330 on the commuter rush into ams !
 
NG263
Posts: 229
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:10 pm

Re: Lufthansa looking to (re)acquire Condor

Fri May 03, 2019 12:03 pm

FreitaMa wrote:
Hopefully they wont sell it to LH. For Condor it would be the worst case, because LH just wants the slots for Eurowings.
But nevertheless our German authority "Bundeskartellamt" wouldn't allow a takeover.


I don't think that that is the case! Spohr knows that Condor's brand name is quite strong in Germany and associated with THE leisure airline ever since. I believe that he would put Condor's strong name on the leisure long haul market of the LH Group. Condor is well known outside Europe so why not get rid of EW long haul and let them do solely the European market?! I think that this is most likely to happen if the deal gets through. But I'm with you that it will be quite a challenge to work out a deal in concern to the cartel office.
 
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Aisak
Posts: 885
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Re: Thomas Cook set deadline for interest in Airline.

Fri May 03, 2019 12:17 pm

f4f3a wrote:
Personally It would be interesting if easyjet took them over


Interesting, sure. Likely? Mmmm.

Thomas Cook Airlines are in fact several AOCs (and of course companies)
UK (British) with long haul operation
Balearics (Spanish)
Scandinavia (Danish) with long haul operation
Condor (German) with long haul operation.

Easyjet buying it... the 30ish British 321 could come in handy... but they would face serious competition issues specially at LGW... they practically own half the airport ops... they would “merge” the other short haul planes from other countries into Easyjet Europe in Austria... but what would they do with the long haul flying?

Too many ... :D
 
FreitaMa
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Re: Lufthansa looking to (re)acquire Condor

Fri May 03, 2019 12:27 pm

GalebG4 wrote:
"Bundeskartellamt" would probably not allow SEA, CUN, MLE, CPT, MRU, BGI, YYC*, YYZ*, YVR* and that is 9 of 39 long haul Condor destinations. None of the destinations are major Condor destinations from FRA except CUN which is slightly bigger than the rest. So “YES” in theory Lufthansa could take over Condor long haul unit and there is also MUC, DUS from which Condor also flies long haul.

"Bundeskartellamt" IS THERE TO PROTECT MARKET, NOT LUFTHANSA OR ANYBODY ELSE!


As TC only wants to sell the whole company SH and LH Lufthansa wouldn't allowed to take over Condor. Lufthansa is not good for the german market and anybody knows that.

Lufthansa had the possibility to take over Condor once and decided to go the Eurowings way, so I am pretty sure that they will erase the brand Condor. Also the pilots and cabin crews are ways to expensive for Lufthansa as they want to drop every pay to a minimum: Cityline, Eurowings, Brussels, Jump etc. Lufthansa are cutting pays everywhere.

A strong, independent (from Lufthansa) Condor with a modern fleet is really needed in Germany.
 
f4f3a
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Re: Thomas Cook set deadline for interest in Airline.

Fri May 03, 2019 12:43 pm

I don’t think lgw would be an issue as there is loads of competition from ba Norwegian and tui etc .
The long haul although not in their current business plan is still their target passengers . I’d holiday sun pax . No premium pax.
I however agree that it’s unlikely they will want to spend all that money with so much uncertainty at the moment, you don’t want to spend all your cash.
I think if they come into this it will be as part of a dissection with others .
How about a joint venture with jet blue ? Easy take short haul and jet blue can get slots into the main airports of Europe ?
Although I would imagine as part of the sale of the airline there would be a seats agreement for whoever buys the rest of the business
 
FatCat
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Re: Lufthansa looking to (re)acquire Condor

Fri May 03, 2019 2:06 pm

But Condor isn't a leisure & charter carrier? (like TUI / Thomas Cook, Neos, etc)
I don't think that Condor really can compete with Lufthansa, better, they do not have the same market, right? By the way flights on Condor are scheduled & bookable but AFAIK the majority of passengers are booked by travel agencies / tour operators, or am I wrong?
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mattyfitzg
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Re: Thomas Cook set deadline for interest in Airline.

Fri May 03, 2019 5:50 pm

Bets on Wizzair taking over the entire operation, including the 330's and launching themselves across the Atlantic with them and their NEOs to compete with Norwegian (and later on JetBlue)
 
f4f3a
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Re: Thomas Cook set deadline for interest in Airline.

Fri May 03, 2019 7:45 pm

I think that if indigo are involved I’m not sure whether they would merge brand into Wizz. Especially in Germany condor has a known reputation and loyal following . Tc tried rebranding them and it was a total failure . It would be much better to keep it like Ryanair did with Lauda
 
marcogr12
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Re: Thomas Cook set deadline for interest in Airline.

Fri May 03, 2019 7:52 pm

Condor is a strong brand with a long history in leisure flights/packages in Germany..Then again so was Monarch and we saw what happened..I never quite understood why LH let DE go and went the EW way,when in fact DE could have worked as both (leisure and LCC)..The fleet is already LCC-configured, the market short-haul market resembles a lot the one of LCC-sea/sun destinations, plus at one point they did the city-trip thing (like AB did)..And with their long-haul fleet Lufthansa would have,as it did in the past,a lower-cost operation of lesser profitable markets or not as high-yield as LH needs them to be..Now they are doing the same with EW..So what's the difference?

The Thomas Cook fleet (A321s,763s,A332/A333s),can't we assume it could be sold off to other leisure (and not) airlines,like Easy,Wizz,Jet2,TUI or spanish charters like Wamos,Evelop etc? The A333s are really badly wanted in SE Asia and Canada..Thomas Cook A321s i don't think would have a problem been taken up by a number of other operators..Condor also has a lot of 753s which can be either sold to Icelandair that badly wants more 757s until the NMA goes into EIS,the 763s could also work for US operators?
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
eagles94
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Re: Thomas Cook set deadline for interest in Airline.

Fri May 03, 2019 8:13 pm

Lots of thought for Slots and Aircraft and very little thought for employees. Thomas Cooks flight and cabin crews are very highly regarded and I’d imagine an airline like EasyJet or Wizz would welcome them with open arms. Likewise for the Ops staff and facilities.
I’d imagine the best outcome for the employees would be an outright acquisition by another airline as there’s a higher chance of continued employment.
 
NG263
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Re: Lufthansa looking to (re)acquire Condor

Fri May 03, 2019 9:24 pm

FatCat wrote:
But Condor isn't a leisure & charter carrier? (like TUI / Thomas Cook, Neos, etc)
I don't think that Condor really can compete with Lufthansa, better, they do not have the same market, right? By the way flights on Condor are scheduled & bookable but AFAIK the majority of passengers are booked by travel agencies / tour operators, or am I wrong?


You are in fact with your last part wrong. Condor has transformed from the full charter business in the last decades. While they still operate full charters for certain tour operators, especially for ship cruises in the Caribbean, their main business is similar to a scheduled carrier. Many of their destinations have nothing to do with the tour business, e.g. many, if not all, of the US destination (besides a few yearly JFK charters).
 
f4f3a
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Re: Thomas Cook set deadline for interest in Airline.

Sat May 04, 2019 2:20 pm

Well if iAg by the airlines that would be a foot in the German market . Whether in low cost form like level or as a full service carrier . It would put them in a strong position
 
MCTSET
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Re: Thomas Cook set deadline for interest in Airline.

Mon May 06, 2019 10:09 pm

Today is the deadline for expression of interest. Do you think there will be any news or will they do an Alitalia and push back the date to infinity.
 
FatCat
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Re: Lufthansa looking to (re)acquire Condor

Tue May 07, 2019 6:56 am

NG263 wrote:
FatCat wrote:
But Condor isn't a leisure & charter carrier? (like TUI / Thomas Cook, Neos, etc)
I don't think that Condor really can compete with Lufthansa, better, they do not have the same market, right? By the way flights on Condor are scheduled & bookable but AFAIK the majority of passengers are booked by travel agencies / tour operators, or am I wrong?


You are in fact with your last part wrong. Condor has transformed from the full charter business in the last decades. While they still operate full charters for certain tour operators, especially for ship cruises in the Caribbean, their main business is similar to a scheduled carrier. Many of their destinations have nothing to do with the tour business, e.g. many, if not all, of the US destination (besides a few yearly JFK charters).

thanks
Aeroplane flies high
Turns left, looks right
 
A3801000
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LH ready to take over DE

Tue May 07, 2019 9:24 am

LH officially announced interest to take over Condor 100%.
They even are considering taking over all the Thomas Cook airlines.

I only have a link in German for now: https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unter ... 66132.html
Last edited by A3801000 on Tue May 07, 2019 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Jetter330
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Re: LH ready to take over DE

Tue May 07, 2019 9:27 am

A3801000 wrote:
LH officially announced interest to take over Condor 100%.
They even are considering taking over all the TUI airlines.

I only have a link in German for now: https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unter ... 66132.html



You most probably mean all the Thomas Cook Airlines?
 
mxaxai
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Re: LH ready to take over DE

Tue May 07, 2019 9:28 am

All of the Thomas Cook airlines. No hint of any interest in TUI so far.

Lufthansa accepts that Condor's short haul network would be subject to anti-trust regulations if LH takes over DE.
 
sprite86
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Re: Thomas Cook set deadline for interest in Airline.

Tue May 07, 2019 9:28 am

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/ ... an-carrier

Lufthansa to bid for condor, nothing about the rest of the airlines as yet the deadline is today, would Lufthansa get the approval to buy condor?

in other news Thomas cook are asking there lenders for a further £400 million to keep the company going, large losses expected this year, I get the feeling they will sell the airline(s) at any cost to keep the tour operation going.


I personally feel this is a very bad decision on Thomas cooks part to sell the airline business they are expending their hotel portfolio but will have no control of how to get passengers to these hotels, no control over cost of the seats, I can see more people booking with TUI and Jet2
 
A3801000
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Re: LH ready to take over DE

Tue May 07, 2019 9:36 am

Jetter330 wrote:
A3801000 wrote:
LH officially announced interest to take over Condor 100%.
They even are considering taking over all the TUI airlines.

I only have a link in German for now: https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unter ... 66132.html



You most probably mean all the Thomas Cook Airlines?


Yes, my apologies, I corrected it
 
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conaly
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Re: Thomas Cook set deadline for interest in Airline.

Tue May 07, 2019 9:42 am

Lufthansa now plans to fully take over Condor, including the short- and medium-haul fleet and routes, even though they expect to get terms and conditions from the EU anti trust divisions. They already made an non-binding offer to Thomas Cook for Condor. There are even thoughts to take over ALL Thomas Cook airlines.
According to the source, WizzAir/Indigo, Ryanair, Easyjet and IAG are also interested in some of the TC-airlines, while it is not said which ones exactly.

https://www.aero.de/news-31594/Lufthans ... ondor.html (German)

Wishful thinking: drop the Eurowings name and use "Condor" for all long-range flights outside of Mainline-LH's route network. The brand is so much more popular in Germany.
Airports 2019: ADB, ALG, AMD, ATL, BOS, CTS, DEL, DTW, DUS, EWR, FRA, FUK, HAM, HIJ, HND, IST, JFK, MUC, NGO, NUE, OKA, PHL, SIN, STN, YYZ
Planned 2019: BOG, CDG, FRA, HFT, HVG, MUC, NUE, TOS, ZRH
 
AaronPGH
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Re: LH ready to take over DE

Tue May 07, 2019 10:13 am

 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: LH ready to take over DE

Tue May 07, 2019 10:23 am

"The long-haul route to tourist destinations from Frankfurt and Munich, which could be connected to the Lufthansa subsidiary Eurowings, appears particularly attractive."
From the german magazine.
 
speedbird52
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Re: LH ready to take over DE

Tue May 07, 2019 10:31 am

Wouldn't this leave Lufthansa as the sole airline in Germany?
 
BrianDromey
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Re: LH ready to take over DE

Tue May 07, 2019 10:38 am

The sole German airline of size, yes. But not the sole airline in Germany. easyJet and Lauda/Ryanair have sizeable presence. It seems this is mainly about long-haul. Condor has 25 narrow bodies (A320/321/753) flying to holiday destinations around the med. Not somewhere LH has massive presence or a shortage of competition.
 
juliuswong
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Re: LH ready to take over DE

Tue May 07, 2019 10:43 am

I suppose Thomas Cook and Condor brands will not survive the culling, for the sake of Eurowings, if they are allowed to buy both?
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
speedbird52
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Re: LH ready to take over DE

Tue May 07, 2019 10:53 am

BrianDromey wrote:
The sole German airline of size, yes. But not the sole airline in Germany. easyJet and Lauda/Ryanair have sizeable presence. It seems this is mainly about long-haul. Condor has 25 narrow bodies (A320/321/753) flying to holiday destinations around the med. Not somewhere LH has massive presence or a shortage of competition.

How long will it be before Europe just has Ryanair EasyJet IAG and Lufthansa group?
 
marcogr12
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Tue May 07, 2019 11:38 am

The 757-300s don't "fit" the fleet profile of neither LH nor EW...What will happen to them? Condor has about 11..Would per chance other airlines using 757s be interested in them, i.e. Icelandair, Jet2, United, Delta?
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
ktof
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Tue May 07, 2019 11:52 am

So out of curiosity, I have a return set of Thomas Cook flights booked MAN - MCO next May (2020) as part of a package. All booked directly with Thomas Cook.

The chances of these flights now being operated by Thomas Cook, or at least under the Thomas Cook name are slim I assume.

Will my booking be safe and still operated, albeit by whoever buys TC?
 
by738
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Tue May 07, 2019 12:27 pm

ktof wrote:
Will my booking be safe and still operated, albeit by whoever buys TC?

I don't think this would be guaranteed so far out. What can be guaranteed is there will either be no change and booking goes ahead as-is, you get an alternative or a full refund. I am guessing a lot will be hesitant to book now, though often general public don't realise whats going on.
 
ktof
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Tue May 07, 2019 12:45 pm

by738 wrote:
ktof wrote:
Will my booking be safe and still operated, albeit by whoever buys TC?

I don't think this would be guaranteed so far out. What can be guaranteed is there will either be no change and booking goes ahead as-is, you get an alternative or a full refund. I am guessing a lot will be hesitant to book now, though often general public don't realise whats going on.


Thank you by738 - I'm not too concerned as the alternatives are fine, no big deal if I have to rebook elsewhere this far out.

Thanks for the insightful response!
 
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seahawk
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Tue May 07, 2019 12:47 pm

ktof wrote:
So out of curiosity, I have a return set of Thomas Cook flights booked MAN - MCO next May (2020) as part of a package. All booked directly with Thomas Cook.

The chances of these flights now being operated by Thomas Cook, or at least under the Thomas Cook name are slim I assume.

Will my booking be safe and still operated, albeit by whoever buys TC?


You have a package booked with Thomas Cook, so it up to them to find an alternative for you.
 
baje427
Posts: 707
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Tue May 07, 2019 1:26 pm

It will be sad seeing Thomas Cook go I used them once they were way cheaper than VS and BA.
 
mutu
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Re: Thomas Cook set deadline for interest in Airline.

Tue May 07, 2019 1:31 pm

eagles94 wrote:
I don’t think Virgin are in any position to make a second acquisition in a year. The bean counters will be kicking themselves.


VS contribution to the conglomerate that took over Flybe is very modest in the scheme of things and shouldn't impact on this. However they might be kicking themselves that Flybe came up before Thomas Cook - which would be of more strategic value to them
 
vandoc
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Re: LH ready to take over DE

Tue May 07, 2019 1:50 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
The sole German airline of size, yes. But not the sole airline in Germany. easyJet and Lauda/Ryanair have sizeable presence. It seems this is mainly about long-haul. Condor has 25 narrow bodies (A320/321/753) flying to holiday destinations around the med. Not somewhere LH has massive presence or a shortage of competition.


Well, one can argue about the impact of easyJet and Ryanair. Lufthansa (+German part of EW) and Condor would´ve ~540 aircrafts based in Germany. EZY and FR togehter have only based around 50 aircrafts in Germany. In addition there is only TUIfly (36 acs, 7 opf. LH), LGW (17 Dashs, all operated for EW) and Sundair with 4 aircrafts left.
 
eagles94
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Tue May 07, 2019 1:58 pm

Indigo Partners, with their MoU with Airbus of 430 aircraft would make a lot of sense in terms of updating the TCUK fleet.
Those NEOs would look superb in that livery.
 
mxaxai
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Re: LH ready to take over DE

Tue May 07, 2019 3:14 pm

juliuswong wrote:
I suppose Thomas Cook and Condor brands will not survive the culling, for the sake of Eurowings, if they are allowed to buy both?

Condor is a reasonably strong brand name in Germany. Strong enough to stay separate from Thomas Cook, even though both used the same livery (sans titles). Definitely stronger than Eurowings. I could imagine Eurowings long haul to become renamed to Condor in the long run, if this takeover happens.
marcogr12 wrote:
The 757-300s don't "fit" the fleet profile of neither LH nor EW...What will happen to them? Condor has about 11..Would per chance other airlines using 757s be interested in them, i.e. Icelandair, Jet2, United, Delta?

Doubt that Icelandair needs that much additional capacity. United has its narrowbody replacement in full swing (disregarding the MAX grounding) so probably little interest either.
... too bad there is no 757-300 freighter conversion.
 
NG263
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Re: LH ready to take over DE

Tue May 07, 2019 3:28 pm

I can't say it too often, Thomas Cook is just the parent company behind Condor and that's it. Everybody in Germany knows Condor but not Thomas Cook. They operated for dozen years without Thomas Cook, so of course they are more than strong enough to be separate from TC. And sorry, it all got worse with Thomas Cook... I really hope that the deal with LH gets through
 
NormanDLandings
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Tue May 07, 2019 4:03 pm

Sure, apart from the fact that the UK and Scandinavia arms of TCX kept the group going last year DESPITE Condor’s terrible results!
 
AAMDanny
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Tue May 07, 2019 4:09 pm

NormanDLandings wrote:
Sure, apart from the fact that the UK and Scandinavia arms of TCX kept the group going last year DESPITE Condor’s terrible results!


Exactly!! The UK side has down especially well
 
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LuxuryTravelled
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Re: Thomas Cook set deadline for interest in Airline.

Tue May 07, 2019 5:01 pm

sprite86 wrote:
http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/331110/lufthansa-to-bid-for-thomas-cooks-german-carrier

Lufthansa to bid for condor, nothing about the rest of the airlines as yet the deadline is today, would Lufthansa get the approval to buy condor?

in other news Thomas cook are asking there lenders for a further £400 million to keep the company going, large losses expected this year, I get the feeling they will sell the airline(s) at any cost to keep the tour operation going.


I personally feel this is a very bad decision on Thomas cooks part to sell the airline business they are expending their hotel portfolio but will have no control of how to get passengers to these hotels, no control over cost of the seats, I can see more people booking with TUI and Jet2


Thomas Cook could very easily buy all the seats back off another airline operator - or operators, which could actually put them in a stronger position. Given, they would also be able to finance the growth parts of the business - and the ability to flex airlift capacity up/down depending on demand, something they can't really do at the moment.
 
eagles94
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Thu May 09, 2019 4:25 pm

Would be interesting if LH did actually take over TCUK, since their offer “extends to the UK airline” too.
What on earth would they do with it? Turn it into Eurowings? Or Condor? Or something new
 
flyhi
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Thu May 09, 2019 4:28 pm

and now it seems Virgin's interest in Thomas Cook's UK longhaul operation has come to light

https://news.sky.com/story/virgin-atlan ... e-11715547
 
by738
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Thu May 09, 2019 4:32 pm

VS would be best fit for the UK longhaul.
 
User001
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Thu May 09, 2019 5:05 pm

Well, buying the long haul operation would certainly give the prospect of a MAN hub more credibility. This would literally double the VS long haul operation at MAN overnight.

Back when VS took the stake in FlyBe, it was rumoured it was all to build a hub at MAN, with a small feed operation at LHR. The fact VS is now bidding for what is essentially a very MAN centric operation, it certainly gives that rumour credinance.
 
eagles94
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Thu May 09, 2019 5:44 pm

So VS take the long-haul from MAN. What happens with the rest of TCUK????

Can’t help but feel for the staff right now.
 
Mullion
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Thu May 09, 2019 7:25 pm

Rumours either Indigo or Easyjet for short haul
 
LGAviation
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Thu May 09, 2019 7:33 pm

How long do you guys reckon a sale process would take to become effective. I assume neither party would be interested in disrupting the profitable and already booked out summer operations at this stage and with antitrust clearances necessary I assume that even if do see a decision on a potential buyer soon, we won't see any schedule changes that passengers will notice until at least the winter schedule or do you guys see a way in which this summer might be affected?
2018: ADD CPH DAR DEN DME DUB FRA HAH HAM IST JIB KEF LYR MEL OSL PEK PKC PVG RAK STN SVO SYD YVR
 
jomur
Posts: 235
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Thu May 09, 2019 8:00 pm

flyhi wrote:
and now it seems Virgin's interest in Thomas Cook's UK longhaul operation has come to light

https://news.sky.com/story/virgin-atlan ... e-11715547


I suspect it could fall foul of competiton rules as Virgin already flies to most of the destinations TC long haul does.
 
azz767
Posts: 138
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Thu May 09, 2019 8:22 pm

Good move for VS.

In the short term it gives them slots at MAN and more flexibility to develop their network. It also gives them more A/C that they have experience of operating (all be it with different engines) that are the right size to open new markets.

The only question I would have is what will they do re terminals at MAN? MT in T1, VS in T2 and BE in T3. I know the plan will be all T2 when it’s all finished but still in the short term it could get a tad messy if all goes through
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