mxaxai
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Tue May 14, 2019 3:13 pm

mattyfitzg wrote:
KlimaBXsst wrote:
Anything happening on the other side of the Atlantic lately?
Westjet Air, Transat, and Thomas Cooke are companies to watch.

I pity any employee of Westjet right now with the pure horror of uncertainty a Private Equity firm take over brings


More pity for the Thomas Cook employees, who don't know whether any takeover will actually include further employment.
Since VS want the Long Haul and LH want Condor, the UK Short Haul cabin and flight crews are left in the middle picking up the pieces.

EDIT: On the subject of a VS take-over of Long-Haul, surely Unite will put up a hell of a fight in regards to employment of staff and contracts. I don't think a union like Unite will let it quietly slip under the radar

Except that LH is only really interested in the long haul branch of Condor. They acknowledge that the short haul fleet will likely cause a problem with competition regulations. So Condor's short haul employees should be just as worried. And still no mention of bidders for Thomas Cook Scandinavia.
 
f4f3a
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Tue May 14, 2019 6:20 pm

How many short haul jets have condor got ?
I wonder whether a deal with easyJet where they split it might be an option .
 
marcogr12
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Tue May 14, 2019 6:59 pm

f4f3a wrote:
How many short haul jets have condor got ?
I wonder whether a deal with easyJet where they split it might be an option .


According to their site they have 7 A320s,5 A321 and 13 753s..Easy could get the Airbuses but the 753s would have to find another operator..Mind you they carry up to 275pax!
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
mxaxai
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Tue May 14, 2019 7:00 pm

f4f3a wrote:
How many short haul jets have condor got ?
I wonder whether a deal with easyJet where they split it might be an option .

A quick look on Wikipedia reveals 8 A320, 9+2 A321 and 15+1 753. (+"to be delivered")
So a medium sized fleet. Could be a nize little addition to Easyjet or Wizzair.
 
f4f3a
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Tue May 14, 2019 7:51 pm

If easyJet could move into Frankfurt that would be good for them . I also think Lufthansa would rather easyJet than wizz or Ryanair . Has anyone shown any interest in the Scandinavian op or the pmi operation ?
 
TC957
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Thu May 16, 2019 6:44 am

Just announced on the BBC breakfast news - Thomas Cook have announced a £1.45B loss. Yikes ! Doesn't seem the £400M they are trying to raise will go very far...
Of course, this result is for the Europe-wide group but it doesn't bode well for the future of Thomas Cook Airlines and Condor in their present format.
 
NG263
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Thu May 16, 2019 7:25 am

Wikipedia, the most reliable source on the planet... 7 A320's, 3 A321's (+1 coming from Wow Air ex TF-GMA) & 15 757's (+1 eventually coming from Arkia, although it is not clear if this is still going to happen). Additionally TC Aviation operates 6 A321's for Condor (+2 coming from Germania/Germania Flug)
 
lee757
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Thu May 16, 2019 7:38 am

TC957 wrote:
Just announced on the BBC breakfast news - Thomas Cook have announced a £1.45B loss. Yikes ! Doesn't seem the £400M they are trying to raise will go very far...
Of course, this result is for the Europe-wide group but it doesn't bode well for the future of Thomas Cook Airlines and Condor in their present format.


1.1bn is related to the write down of my travel as mentioned by BBC news and in their published results.


https://www.thomascookgroup.com/news/16 ... sults-2019

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48292318
 
f4f3a
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Thu May 16, 2019 8:01 am

In one source says multiple bids for part and whole of airline . We know Lufthansa and virgin have bid for definite . I guess after share holder meeting we’ll find out who the others are . I imagine indigo is in the mix
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Thu May 16, 2019 9:03 am

I think you can make a reasonably educated guess as to which parties are interested in which bits of the TCX business:

TCX short haul: EasyJet, Ryanair, Jet2, Indigo.

TCX long haul: Virgin Atlantic.

Condor short haul: EasyJet, Ryanair, Indigo (Lufthansa I’m sure would be save for competition pressures).

Condor long haul: Lufthansa

The Scandinavian business is a puzzle. You could see EasyJet et al looking at short haul, but the long haul... I’m not so sure anyone has expressed an interest.

Im sure there are bits of information I’ve missed or overlooked but I think that is a reasonable summary.
 
by738
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Thu May 16, 2019 12:23 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
TCX short haul: EasyJet, Ryanair, Jet2, Indigo

Where did Jet2 come from? Have they expressed any interest?
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Thu May 16, 2019 12:35 pm

by738 wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
TCX short haul: EasyJet, Ryanair, Jet2, Indigo

Where did Jet2 come from? Have they expressed any interest?


I don’t know - a mix of educated guesswork and information in the public domain.

I don’t think there is any obligation on any of the parties to make their intentions public so I suspect some interested parties will have slipped in under the radar (so to speak).
 
f4f3a
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Thu May 16, 2019 12:58 pm

The big question are they going to get more money or favour a sale of the whole or is it more likely to be split and sold separately
 
azz767
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Thu May 16, 2019 1:53 pm

I think it would be better long term for it to be sold in bits.

LH will succeed with DE long haul
VS will succeed with MT long haul
EZY will succeed with any of or all three short haul

Im not sure Jet2 would be interested purely from a fleet perspective. They would be gaining A321's, and whilst ok on a summer lease, its a whole other thing operating a different type full time. One wild theory however, as Jet 2 are looking for bigger a/c. I wonder if they would be interested in DE's 753's? Firstly they already operate the -200. Secondly they purchase and maintain second hand aircraft to an excellent standard. Thirdly the -200's are really getting on, and there has been rumours of Jet2 looking at a bigger a/c hence the 2 now full time leased Air Tanker A330's, but with no intention as yet of going long haul, thus suggesting these are merely people movers. Surely the 753's capacity would benefit them for this reason as they clearly don't need the range.
 
A321200
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Thu May 16, 2019 2:25 pm

Are there any examples of airlines being carved up like this before? Dividing up the aircraft is simple, but what about the rest? Any pension deficit, debt, staff, customer base, slots, engineering support, (and many other bits an pieces I'm sure...) Sounds very complicated. In terms of timescale, have TCX indicated when they'd like this all to happen? Before this winter?
 
f4f3a
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Thu May 16, 2019 3:05 pm

Air Berlin niki ? That was carved up by Lufthansa easyJet and Ryanair
 
NG263
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Fri May 17, 2019 7:18 am

There is something different between buying an airline and buying assets of an airline. These are all working airlines, some when bought may just operate as always just under another parent company. Air Berlin was bankrupt, of course they were split up.
 
uta999
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Fri May 17, 2019 11:38 am

Your computer just got better
 
f4f3a
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Fri May 17, 2019 12:05 pm

That’s not going to help them at all . I think if tc isn’t sold off the whole group could struggle this winter . If these sales go through especially the fosun deal could be worth buying shares !
 
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LuxuryTravelled
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Fri May 17, 2019 3:58 pm

The difference between Air Berlin and Thomas Cook Airlines/Condor is they are actually making a profit (as a unit).
 
eagles94
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Fri May 17, 2019 4:31 pm

The Chinese whispers going around internally right now seems to be that Indigo Partners are going to take TCUK as a package.
 
mattyfitzg
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Fri May 17, 2019 4:34 pm

eagles94 wrote:
The Chinese whispers going around internally right now seems to be that Indigo Partners are going to take TCUK as a package.


Would Indigo keep the airline running as it is? Would they merge it Wizz, or even Frontier??

Strange one.
 
f4f3a
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Fri May 17, 2019 4:47 pm

Do mean the UK airline or the whole holiday UK business ?

If I was then I would keep separate and merge wizz UK into same AOC . It’s still a strong brand in the uk . They could even sell flights on different brand websites . This would quadruple their UK interests .
 
MCTSET
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Fri May 17, 2019 5:03 pm

I don’t think a merger with wizz is the right decision. One is a ULCC that flies to Eastern Europe with mainly VFR traffic and a small and increasing city break market. The other is a holiday/leisure operator. They are 2 markets and don’t really overlap. The only real value TCUK has too wizz is slots. The fleet is not valuable the 13 year old 320s equipped with cfms while wizz use iae. The 330s are off no value, I could see indigo purchasing and maintaining TCUK in its current form, but not wizz. The market for Mediterranean holidays is full and only profitable in the summer.
 
mattyfitzg
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Fri May 17, 2019 5:28 pm

MCTSET wrote:
I don’t think a merger with wizz is the right decision. One is a ULCC that flies to Eastern Europe with mainly VFR traffic and a small and increasing city break market. The other is a holiday/leisure operator. They are 2 markets and don’t really overlap. The only real value TCUK has too wizz is slots. The fleet is not valuable the 13 year old 320s equipped with cfms while wizz use iae. The 330s are off no value, I could see indigo purchasing and maintaining TCUK in its current form, but not wizz. The market for Mediterranean holidays is full and only profitable in the summer.


You're forgetting TCUK's many Winter ski flights, as well as their many winter only ops (BJL, SID, RMF, CPT to name a few), all of which are incredibly popular, CPT in particular.

I wouldn't say the 330's are of no value, being the only operator from the UK to CCC, VRA & HOG, some may say they have a monopoly on Cuban routes, which is becoming increasingly popular ex-UK.
Also, the MAN ops to JFK LAX & SFO seem to be in high-demand.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Fri May 17, 2019 5:32 pm

mattyfitzg wrote:
MCTSET wrote:
I don’t think a merger with wizz is the right decision. One is a ULCC that flies to Eastern Europe with mainly VFR traffic and a small and increasing city break market. The other is a holiday/leisure operator. They are 2 markets and don’t really overlap. The only real value TCUK has too wizz is slots. The fleet is not valuable the 13 year old 320s equipped with cfms while wizz use iae. The 330s are off no value, I could see indigo purchasing and maintaining TCUK in its current form, but not wizz. The market for Mediterranean holidays is full and only profitable in the summer.


You're forgetting TCUK's many Winter ski flights, as well as their many winter only ops (BJL, SID, RMF, CPT to name a few), all of which are incredibly popular, CPT in particular.

I wouldn't say the 330's are of no value, being the only operator from the UK to CCC, VRA & HOG, some may say they have a monopoly on Cuban routes, which is becoming increasingly popular ex-UK.
Also, the MAN ops to JFK LAX & SFO seem to be in high-demand.


I could see a hive off of the long haul business to VS irrespective of who buys the group (or bits of the group). What the value is of that part I’ve got no idea.
 
AAMDanny
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Fri May 17, 2019 5:38 pm

*Takes deep breath*

Joining in on the Armchair CEO brigade here.

In my humblest of opinion..... the Thomas Cook Group would not sell their Airlines to a buyer that wouldn't benefit Thomas Cook. Thomas Cook will still need seats on flights as part of their package holiday business. I know in recent years TC has been expanding its flight options with 'flexible trips' allowing packages to be booked with airlines other than it's own however low-cost airlines like easyJet also have their own in-house inclusive tour options and moving towards securing all the business for themselves. Take a look at Jet2 which started off as a low-cost airline and now has the second biggest package tour operator in the UK.... Jet2Holidays. Not bad for a industry that 10 years ago was deemed a dead industry on the dawn of low-cost airlines dominating the web with direct fares to the Med.

Bottom line they will want seat capacity on the bread and butter bucket and spade destinations that is at the core of the Tour Operators business model.

IMHO best buyer for the Airline divisions would be the Lufthansa Group - Integrate it into Eurowings, gives Eurowings a launchpad into the UK/Scandinavian-Leisure market and UK-Longhaul to the US and beyond. For some bizzare reason the Condor brand is beloved by the consumers in Germany so keep Condor for longhaul and integrate Condor SH into EW or rebrand EW as Condor? - Whatever works for them. I'm pretty sure package holiday customers of Thomas Cook wouldn't mind their flight being on 'Eurowings UK' or whatever it gets called. Ultimately it is just to get them from A to B. And back in the day before the tour operators vertically integrated the airlines in-house it was common to book, for example, an Airtours Holiday with a flight on Spanair.... ahhh, back when flying was interesting!! And the MD-83 would take you on your annual holiday to Majorca, but that's another thread.

Moving on, Virgin Atlantic have the opportunity to create a mini-hub at MAN with BE and the MT long-haul op at MAN (alongside their own Op that they have at MAN) but it has to be asked, should they not be focusing themselves on their current situation as they have only turned a profit a handful of times even with DL/KL/AF pulling the strings now? Although resurrecting the Virgin Sun brand would be absolutely amazing, should they want to take on all of the TC Airline divisions.

It's just a shame that the Thomas Cook group is sinking under its own weight, and Manny Fontenla-Novoa who was at the helm of the group in the economic crisis decided to spend money opening more shops rather than investing in the product and improving the website and online distribution. Both Harriett Green and Peter Fankhauser have had their work cut out for them un-doing that idiots poor decision making which has ultimately led the company down the garden path to where it is today. If there is a finger to point the blame at for all this, it is Manny.

I hope something good comes out the next few weeks and days for all the wonderful and professional staff involved at Thomas Cook both in tour-ops and the Airline. All this negative press is puts burdens on those loyal and hard working employees.

I look forward to thoughts/replies/insults as always.

AAMDanny
Fellow Armchair CEO
 
MCTSET
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Fri May 17, 2019 6:40 pm

mattyfitzg wrote:
MCTSET wrote:
I don’t think a merger with wizz is the right decision. One is a ULCC that flies to Eastern Europe with mainly VFR traffic and a small and increasing city break market. The other is a holiday/leisure operator. They are 2 markets and don’t really overlap. The only real value TCUK has too wizz is slots. The fleet is not valuable the 13 year old 320s equipped with cfms while wizz use iae. The 330s are off no value, I could see indigo purchasing and maintaining TCUK in its current form, but not wizz. The market for Mediterranean holidays is full and only profitable in the summer.


You're forgetting TCUK's many Winter ski flights, as well as their many winter only ops (BJL, SID, RMF, CPT to name a few), all of which are incredibly popular, CPT in particular.

I wouldn't say the 330's are of no value, being the only operator from the UK to CCC, VRA & HOG, some may say they have a monopoly on Cuban routes, which is becoming increasingly popular ex-UK.
Also, the MAN ops to JFK LAX & SFO seem to be in high-demand.



Your completely correct, however I am referring to usefulness to wizz, these aircraft and operations are far from wizzes core operations.
 
mattyfitzg
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Fri May 17, 2019 6:48 pm

MCTSET wrote:
mattyfitzg wrote:
MCTSET wrote:
I don’t think a merger with wizz is the right decision. One is a ULCC that flies to Eastern Europe with mainly VFR traffic and a small and increasing city break market. The other is a holiday/leisure operator. They are 2 markets and don’t really overlap. The only real value TCUK has too wizz is slots. The fleet is not valuable the 13 year old 320s equipped with cfms while wizz use iae. The 330s are off no value, I could see indigo purchasing and maintaining TCUK in its current form, but not wizz. The market for Mediterranean holidays is full and only profitable in the summer.


You're forgetting TCUK's many Winter ski flights, as well as their many winter only ops (BJL, SID, RMF, CPT to name a few), all of which are incredibly popular, CPT in particular.

I wouldn't say the 330's are of no value, being the only operator from the UK to CCC, VRA & HOG, some may say they have a monopoly on Cuban routes, which is becoming increasingly popular ex-UK.
Also, the MAN ops to JFK LAX & SFO seem to be in high-demand.



Your completely correct, however I am referring to usefulness to wizz, these aircraft and operations are far from wizzes core operations.



Ah my mistake, I must have misinterpreted your comment.
However, Wizz are finding themselves edging towards Sun routes ex-LTN lately, with the introduction of Athens, Bari, Catania, Larnaca, Lisbon, Tel Aviv and Thessaloniki. So maybe it might not be that crazy for TCX/W6 to merge together and combine networks, and there we have a purple carrier to throw into the blue & orange mix.
 
f4f3a
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Fri May 17, 2019 7:04 pm

The question is how much is it worth easyJet or Ryanair buying tc UK to stop wizz expanding is another question .
Also if the aviation sector is possibly about to encounter weak economy/ recession and poor exchange rates and rising fuel prices . Is taking on such capacity a huge risk ?
 
eagles94
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Fri May 17, 2019 7:08 pm

What about a big shot in the dark, and Indigo merge TCX with F9. Same type of fleet, relatively similar leisure-type network.
They could beat B6 to the punch on the NEO TRATL if they get in there first.
 
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LuxuryTravelled
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Fri May 17, 2019 7:46 pm

I am assuming that of course the whole Thomas Cook group doesn’t go under in the meantime, which changes the picture somewhat.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Fri May 17, 2019 8:14 pm

eagles94 wrote:
What about a big shot in the dark, and Indigo merge TCX with F9. Same type of fleet, relatively similar leisure-type network.
They could beat B6 to the punch on the NEO TRATL if they get in there first.

No. US and EU airlines cannot operate domestic flights within the others territory. Thats not going to change on the US side anytime soon.

What do the Indigo airlines have in common, other than they operate the same type of narrowbody? So do half the airlines in the world. What marketing, logistics, managerial, operational or crewing synergies could be had by combining TCX with Frontier, or any of the other Indigo Partners investments? Why do people keep suggesting this merger madness? Of the Indigo airlines only Frontier and Volaris codeshare with each other, on routes between their home markets. This makes sense, but a pan-global airline is a ridiculous proposal - look at the trouble Virgin America had.

I don’t think the short-to-medium term outlook for the MT/DE group of airlines looks much different. TC will want seats for their holidays,so keeping the group intact would be a favourable outcome for them, at least for now. A commercial relationship between the airline and Thomas Cook would reduce the new owners risk and achieve a better price for Thomas Cook. The outcome is very difficult to predict, a vertically integrated leisure company of this size has never been broken-up like this while a going concern. Various trade entities are obviouly interested in various parts, but I suspect TC would prefer to sell as a single entity, possibly to private equity.
 
eagles94
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Sat May 18, 2019 11:52 pm

Seems like customer confidence has taken a good kicking. For all staff involved let’s hope a sale of the airline can go through ASAP and get rid of some of this uncertainty both for the consumer, and for the staff.

I hope to see the sunny hearts taking off and landing this time next year.
 
goosebayguy
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Sun May 19, 2019 9:27 am

The way things are going with TCG events may overtake the sale of the airline and it could quickly go bust. Then it will be a case of picking over the carcass. No doubt a lot of airlines with grounded or non-arrived B737MAXs will be looking to use any aircraft returned to leasing companies.
 
mattyfitzg
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Sun May 19, 2019 9:50 am

goosebayguy wrote:
The way things are going with TCG events may overtake the sale of the airline and it could quickly go bust. Then it will be a case of picking over the carcass. No doubt a lot of airlines with grounded or non-arrived B737MAXs will be looking to use any aircraft returned to leasing companies.


I highly doubt that's the case. Don't jump onboard the tabloid scaremongering.
TCG have bridging loans which are subject to the sale of the airline. For everybody's sake, TCG needs to offload the airline as soon as humanly possible, whether it's for a few million or for a £1.

Well over 25,000 jobs on the line around Europe, not what the economy needs really.
 
bennett123
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Sun May 19, 2019 10:18 am

I understand that the airline is profitable.

Why would they sell for £1.
 
mattyfitzg
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Sun May 19, 2019 10:23 am

bennett123 wrote:
I understand that the airline is profitable.

Why would they sell for £1.


Not strictly saying they would sell the airline for a £1, just more stating the fact that I think TCG would go to whatever measures they have to, to sell the airline as quickly as possible.
 
TC957
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Sun May 19, 2019 10:33 am

I'm baffled by why such a huge chunk of the report loss should stem from the 2007 MyTravel merger.
Why does this go into the financial melting pot some 12 years later and not at the time ?
 
f4f3a
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Sun May 19, 2019 10:36 am

The fact remains that tc is still a great brand with lots of loyal customers . I’m sure with the right investment and restructure this company can be turned round
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Sun May 19, 2019 11:17 am

TC957 wrote:
I'm baffled by why such a huge chunk of the report loss should stem from the 2007 MyTravel merger.
Why does this go into the financial melting pot some 12 years later and not at the time ?


In 2007, it probably seemed like a reasonable deal for both sides - maybe people thought that Thomas Cook was paying slightly more a fair price in 2007 but not drastically so. The annual accounts for Thomas Cook have recorded MyTravel as having been worth the purchase price ever since. With the passage of time, it has become much clearer that Thomas Cook massively overpaid for a company whose business has subsequently undergone significant decline for various reasons - this might include the 2008 credit crunch, unbundling (i.e. ordinary people can look at tripadvisor and put together their own holiday by combining the like of Easyjet, a hotel and car hire over the Internet without needing to pay an additional fee to a travel agent) and possibly also due to mismanagement by Thomas Cook.

I suspect that Thomas Cook's management have been trying to avoid admitting they overpaid for MyTravel for many many years. The people currently on the board were (I presume) not in senior roles in 2007 so cannot be accused personally of screwing up in 2007 - and perhaps are now obliged under accountancy standards to come clean about Thomas Cook overpaying in 2007. Thomas Cook should probably have admitted in their accounts several years ago that they overpaid for MyTravel - but until recently somehow managed to avoid doing so
 
bennett123
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Sun May 19, 2019 11:44 am

Not sure I agree that they are a great brand.

Had two trips to Athens with them.

Trip 1 there was a Public Sector strike. Flight was with OA and 2 x B737 flights were combined into 1x A300. My flight was 12 hours earlier than expected. I was told 24 hours before.

Once there was a Public Sector strike, OA was going to be affected.
Passengers should have been told that flights could be affected much sooner. It was in the English Language newspaper in Athens a week earlier.

Trip 2, the day I was due to return was a Papal visit. During the week I was there were frequent protests about it. As a result, there were police roadblocks everywhere and it took over 2 hours to get to the Airport. Again no contact from Thomas Cook about possible problems.

If I am travelling long haul then the Tour Operator needs to have their finger on the pulse.

There was also a case a couple of hours ago where several guests died of Carbon Monoxide poisoning.

The Tour Operator is supposed to check the Hotel. In any accommodation, Carbon Monoxide is the biggest single concealed killer.

So I would NOT view them as a great brand. I would probably say that they WERE a great brand.
 
bennett123
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Sun May 19, 2019 11:48 am

Unless this massive overvaluation for MyTravel was discovered in the last 12 months, then the BOD have some tricky questions to answer.
 
mattyfitzg
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Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Sun May 19, 2019 12:04 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Not sure I agree that they are a great brand.

Had two trips to Athens with them.

Trip 1 there was a Public Sector strike. Flight was with OA and 2 x B737 flights were combined into 1x A300. My flight was 12 hours earlier than expected. I was told 24 hours before.

Once there was a Public Sector strike, OA was going to be affected.
Passengers should have been told that flights could be affected much sooner. It was in the English Language newspaper in Athens a week earlier.

Trip 2, the day I was due to return was a Papal visit. During the week I was there were frequent protests about it. As a result, there were police roadblocks everywhere and it took over 2 hours to get to the Airport. Again no contact from Thomas Cook about possible problems.

If I am travelling long haul then the Tour Operator needs to have their finger on the pulse.

There was also a case a couple of hours ago where several guests died of Carbon Monoxide poisoning.

The Tour Operator is supposed to check the Hotel. In any accommodation, Carbon Monoxide is the biggest single concealed killer.

So I would NOT view them as a great brand. I would probably say that they WERE a great brand.


You're describing a trip from what I can only imagine as over 15/16 years ago judging by the info you've posted. You can't judge a tour operator on an experience nearly 2 decades ago!
The case of carbon monoxide poisoning was around a year ago I believe.

There is no denying that TC has a loyal customer base, it's a company which draws either very negative or very positive feedback and no happy medium, so the opinion of whether it is a great brand or not, could be a long debate.
Personally, I think TC are a fantastic brand, especially for those travelling with families, an opinion which I share with hundreds of thousands of others.
 
bennett123
Posts: 8667
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Sun May 19, 2019 1:07 pm

The first trip was about then, the second about ten years later.

My point is that they have reps on site or local partners. Both issues were reasonably predictable. Either they were unaware of these potential issues or did not communicate them.

Either way, I might as well book through the internet.

IMO, if you are taking the family then sudden, unadvised issues are an even bigger problem.
 
3AWM
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:01 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Sun May 19, 2019 1:52 pm

Difficulty for any airline buying into TCX is seat sales rely on Thomas Cook the travel business continuing to be in existence. It makes a lot more sense to be sold as bits as this spreads the risk around buyers of different parts.

The fact that everyone knows Thomas Cook need to sell the airline to raise cash will negatively effect what they can get for it.
 
eagles94
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Sun May 19, 2019 1:58 pm

3AWM wrote:
Difficulty for any airline buying into TCX is seat sales rely on Thomas Cook the travel business continuing to be in existence. It makes a lot more sense to be sold as bits as this spreads the risk around buyers of different parts.

The fact that everyone knows Thomas Cook need to sell the airline to raise cash will negatively effect what they can get for it.


Not necessarily. From LGW in particular the flights have more seat-only pax than holiday pax(Turkey/Egypt/Tunisia all exceptions to this). MAN LH routes to the U.S(bar MCO) are the same.
 
3AWM
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:01 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Sun May 19, 2019 2:21 pm

I take your point but Thomas Cook is still the major customer on all routes. Are there any routes that would still be profitable if you took all of Thomas Cook's seats out?

Also half of the seats might still only add up to 35% of Load Factor if existing Load Factor is only 70%.
 
eagles94
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Sun May 19, 2019 2:35 pm

3AWM wrote:
I take your point but Thomas Cook is still the major customer on all routes. Are there any routes that would still be profitable if you took all of Thomas Cook's seats out?

Also half of the seats might still only add up to 35% of Load Factor if existing Load Factor is only 70%.


I’d guess there would be profitable routes, routes like the Canaries, Naples, Malta, certain Greek islands, are heavily seat-only flights with high load factors, which would likely be able to survive without Thomas Cook Holidays pax.
Yes, certain routes would probably not have the demand for it, Turkey and Egypt for example.
But should TCUK go solo with an investment group surely they can scrap these routes in favour of others.
Since the TCUK network focuses around the needs of TCG, they might be able to become an actual independent airline and fly based on the demand the general public and not TCG.
Ex-LGW especially there are routes in high demand which TCX doesn’t fly to, in favour of going to places like Izmir and Bodrum, where demand is extraordinarily low and the aircraft is only full because of TCG holiday customers.

The same certainly applies for the long haul routes, Cayo Coco and Holguin, Varadero, Goa - all with a distinct lack of seat-only pax.
Compare these to their successful launch of Cape Town, Los Angeles, San Francisco, JFK & Seattle, which are entirely seat-only passengers.
They could well be successful on their own, without the need for the tour operator to supply seats.
Last edited by eagles94 on Sun May 19, 2019 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
eagles94
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:51 pm

Re: Thomas Cook Airlines Selling Discussion Thread

Sun May 19, 2019 2:38 pm

Double post. Please delete.

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