Will any other A380s be involved, or possibly A350/789s?

Some ME3’s should have a few spare. Could get interesting, but I still feel for the TC staff.

Thomas Cook begs lenders to slash £200m demand

Card acquirers are being asked to release £50m of cash as part of an eleventh-hour rescue deal, Sky News learns.

Thomas Cook Group has issued a last-gasp plea to its lenders to reduce a £200m funding demand with Britain’s oldest travel agent just hours away from possible insolvency.

Sky News has learnt that the company has asked its syndicate of lenders to substantially cut the standby funding they require - or amend its structure - to see Thomas Cook through the winter period.

https://news.sky.com/story/thomas-cook- ... d-11817027

uta999 wrote:

Will any other A380s be involved, or possibly A350/789s?

Some ME3’s should have a few spare. Could get interesting, but I still feel for the TC staff.

So as long as we get some interesting aircraft out of it, then that’s ok??? Really - I think that it peoples last thoughts at this time. Especially for the employees, for which I hope a rescue is found but it’s going to go to the wire tonight I think.

Reality is so much more damage has been done in the last few days and I would not like to see there trading figures for the last few days. I would imagine that a lot more is going out than coming in - hence some analysts fears that the 200m safety net would soon be burnt through.

bluefrog wrote:

why bring in a plane from KUL ,surely they could use planes nearer to britain ,also why did the TCflights leave this morning knowing it will fold ?
by the way MH8490 is over the arabian sea as we speak
https://www.flightradar24.com/MAS8490/2232ec78 ( hope link works )

Probably because it will be cheaper and move people in bulk if the worst comes. Not sure of capacity on the Malaysian 380 but probably cheaper to use the 380 on one flight than charter 3 x 320 etc.

bluefrog wrote:

why bring in a plane from KUL ,surely they could use planes nearer to britain ,also why did the TCflights leave this morning knowing it will fold ?
by the way MH8490 is over the arabian sea as we speak
https://www.flightradar24.com/MAS8490/2232ec78 ( hope link works )

Probably because it will be cheaper and move people in bulk if the worst comes. Not sure of capacity on the Malaysian 380 but probably cheaper to use the 380 on one flight than charter 3 x 320 etc.

After 178 years, a real shame that Britain may lose one of its most iconic and back bone brands, another empty shell on our high streets.

Here's hoping there is a miracle.

N1KE wrote:

bluefrog wrote:

why bring in a plane from KUL ,surely they could use planes nearer to britain ,also why did the TCflights leave this morning knowing it will fold ?
by the way MH8490 is over the arabian sea as we speak
https://www.flightradar24.com/MAS8490/2232ec78 ( hope link works )

Probably because it will be cheaper and move people in bulk if the worst comes. Not sure of capacity on the Malaysian 380 but probably cheaper to use the 380 on one flight than charter 3 x 320 etc.

Narrowbody capacity is already stretched thin due to MAX groundings and Neo delays, not a lot of quick spare capacity out there.

Polot wrote:

N1KE wrote:

bluefrog wrote:

why bring in a plane from KUL ,surely they could use planes nearer to britain ,also why did the TCflights leave this morning knowing it will fold ?
by the way MH8490 is over the arabian sea as we speak
https://www.flightradar24.com/MAS8490/2232ec78 ( hope link works )

Probably because it will be cheaper and move people in bulk if the worst comes. Not sure of capacity on the Malaysian 380 but probably cheaper to use the 380 on one flight than charter 3 x 320 etc.

Narrowbody capacity is already stretched thin due to MAX groundings and Neo delays, not a lot of quick spare capacity out there.

Yes and given that several TCX A330's departed the UK this morning to Florida alone, you could bring lots of those people back to the UK, dropping at GLA, MAN and LGW.

KingB123 wrote:

After 178 years, a real shame that Britain may lose one of its most iconic and back bone brands, another empty shell on our high streets.

Here's hoping there is a miracle.

Yes it so sad to see another british travel firm end like this.

Meanwhile German owned TUI is doing well, as far as I know!

Flight plans are still being filed, but at a noticeably slower pace than usual. The Las Vegas A330 has filed about 15 mins ago for its return to MAN according to my source. Still nothing filed for anything due to depart tomorrow, but that may change later. Things seem to be operating 'as normal' at least for now.

In other news, there are 2x Eastern 763s sat at Shannon and a 3rd frame due to arrive in the early hours tomorrow, all under ferry numbers from Miami. 2+2 = ?

The Hi-fly A380 mentioned up thread was never planned to LGW. It was always due to go to CDG. Maybe to cover for Air Austral or Air Madagascar again, as they have both used their A380s for cover in the past. Just guessing here though.

The LGW-DLM tonight 8.25 pm and return flight tomorrow are both now filed on G-TCDV (some guy above flying on it).

All what I have now read in last hours, I do not any more believe, Thomas Cook will get out alive. They will not get the 200 million. So few hours left and than....and than we will have to see, if all other international companies of the TC group will follow and when.

I really hope, I will be wrong. But I fear I am not.

As others have said, the brand name is tainted now, going forward people will be very reluctant to book with them again and at the other end suppliers will be very carefull about credit they offer. Very sad for the staff but maybe better to have it die now.

My sister and family are due to go on a package to Gran Canaria on 30th so they are waiting quite nervously. Liuckily they can just about scrimp enough to book another last minute deal if needed unitl they get money back under the ATOL scheme.

Is the lack of flight plans for tomorrow confirmed or another rumour?

RobK wrote:

The LGW-DLM tonight 8.25 pm and return flight tomorrow are both now filed on G-TCDV (some guy above flying on it).

LGW DLM tonight is at 21:45

Sorry got my UTCs mixed up. Off blocks planned 2045Z with departure expected 2125Z.

The company’s board will then meet in the early evening to decide the company’s fate, with it potentially going into administration in the early hours of Monday.

Now it is early evening, so the meeting is already started?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-thomas-cook-grp-investment/travel-group-thomas-cook-battles-for-survival-ahead-of-monday-deadline-idUSKBN1W70A9

N1KE wrote:

bluefrog wrote:

why bring in a plane from KUL ,surely they could use planes nearer to britain ,also why did the TCflights leave this morning knowing it will fold ?
by the way MH8490 is over the arabian sea as we speak
https://www.flightradar24.com/MAS8490/2232ec78 ( hope link works )

Probably because it will be cheaper and move people in bulk if the worst comes. Not sure of capacity on the Malaysian 380 but probably cheaper to use the 380 on one flight than charter 3 x 320 etc.

Malaysia Airlines A380 configuration is 494 seats with 8F, 66J and 420Y. There are no special amenities on board except snack bar for upper deck J pax.

N1KE wrote:

uta999 wrote:

Will any other A380s be involved, or possibly A350/789s?

Some ME3’s should have a few spare. Could get interesting, but I still feel for the TC staff.

So as long as we get some interesting aircraft out of it, then that’s ok??? Really - I think that it peoples last thoughts at this time. Especially for the employees, for which I hope a rescue is found but it’s going to go to the wire tonight I think.

Reality is so much more damage has been done in the last few days and I would not like to see there trading figures for the last few days. I would imagine that a lot more is going out than coming in - hence some analysts fears that the 200m safety net would soon be burnt through.

I completely agree. Maybe uta999 didn't mean it like the way it reads. But still... I really don't get the interest in what "aircraft types" will be repatriating when thousands of people's livelihoods are at stake + a significant British brand. A380s, A330s seriously who cares? Britain sees them everyday anyway?!

mandyhaslott wrote:

N1KE wrote:

uta999 wrote:

Will any other A380s be involved, or possibly A350/789s?

Some ME3’s should have a few spare. Could get interesting, but I still feel for the TC staff.

So as long as we get some interesting aircraft out of it, then that’s ok??? Really - I think that it peoples last thoughts at this time. Especially for the employees, for which I hope a rescue is found but it’s going to go to the wire tonight I think.

Reality is so much more damage has been done in the last few days and I would not like to see there trading figures for the last few days. I would imagine that a lot more is going out than coming in - hence some analysts fears that the 200m safety net would soon be burnt through.

I completely agree. Maybe uta999 didn't mean it like the way it reads. But still... I really don't get the interest in what "aircraft types" will be repatriating when thousands of people's livelihoods are at stake + a significant British brand. A380s, A330s seriously who cares? Britain sees them everyday anyway?!

It's an aircraft enthusiast forum and website! Of course it is to be expected and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Please stop with the drama and being all offended.

Clearly everyone here wants it to work out for Thomas Cook.

However, the other information is also of interest. Both in terms of aircraft not normally seen in the UK, and of assessing the steps taken by the CAA.

Will the TCX fleet be split up between TUI and Jet2 where the B757s and A330 are concerned and between the rest of the interested parties for their A321s? Given the scarcity of B737s because of the MAX situation and the constant demand for A321s, i think the A321s will be snapped up in a jiffy..Then again Condor's 753s could go to Icelandair to help it gap the bridge between the 752s and 763s or to UA/DL for transcon and Hawaii services

ooh we're divvying up the fleet already!

marcogr12 wrote:

Will the TCX fleet be split up between TUI and Jet2 where the B757s and A330 are concerned and between the rest of the interested parties for their A321s? Given the scarcity of B737s because of the MAX situation and the constant demand for A321s, i think the A321s will be snapped up in a jiffy..Then again Condor's 753s could go to Icelandair to help it gap the bridge between the 752s and 763s or to UA/DL for transcon and Hawaii services

Have a day off mate

marcogr12 wrote:

Will the TCX fleet be split up between TUI and Jet2 where the B757s and A330 are concerned and between the rest of the interested parties for their A321s? Given the scarcity of B737s because of the MAX situation and the constant demand for A321s, i think the A321s will be snapped up in a jiffy..Then again Condor's 753s could go to Icelandair to help it gap the bridge between the 752s and 763s or to UA/DL for transcon and Hawaii services

The 757's are -300 models, which are rare these days. Not sure how well that would fit with TUI/Jet2, especially as TUI would only want them for a short period of time and lease companies may want to lease them out for longer. TUI's own 757's were supposed to have be retired over coming months.

Virgin Atlantic may be able to pick up some A330's like they did from Air Berlin. Some of them are getting on a bit now though. 20+ years old.

Easyjet may be very interested in the A321's. Although likely be heavy demand to pick these up from lots of Airlines, especially for those Airlines that operate Airbus and Max. That will be up to the leasing companies.

Aren't the A330's Jet2 had leased from other Airlines? Do Jet2 provide full crew or just cabin crew?

The boss don't seem too optimistic sadly.
https://mobile.twitter.com/itvnews/stat ... 8560032769

Condor will probably get spun off and maintain its separate identity - so I doubt those planes are going anywhere. I think Condor may fare the best out of a TCX shut down.

The Crewing/Ops teams at TC are in the hangar in Manchester and deal with all group airlines, what happens to them? If Condor or Scandi get spun off do they stay? All could become very confusing.

How come they didn't profit more from Monarch's demise or was the situation so bad that it barely helped? Who filled the void left by Monarch?

readytotaxi wrote:

As others have said, the brand name is tainted now, going forward people will be very reluctant to book with them again and at the other end suppliers will be very carefull about credit they offer. .

Thats very true. Once these things hit the headlines of people being locked in hotels due to non payment and the perception is that your money is not safe then people will not risk it. Even if they make it past the next week or so the damage will take a while to settle down.

usxguy wrote:

Condor will probably get spun off and maintain its separate identity - so I doubt those planes are going anywhere. I think Condor may fare the best out of a TCX shut down.

I really hope so..I've flown with them quite a few times and i always liked their service and professionalism..But i think it will be extremely hard for them to survive on their own-unless they return to mama-LH like in the ..good old days..

usxguy wrote:

Condor will probably get spun off and maintain its separate identity - so I doubt those planes are going anywhere. I think Condor may fare the best out of a TCX shut down.

The German short haul market is in a period of extreme over capacity. Even with Germania and Air Berlin leaving the market, Condor short haul capacity can be absorbed through more profitable operations.

BestWestern wrote:

The German short haul market is in a period of extreme over capacity. Even with Germania and Air Berlin leaving the market, Condor short haul capacity can be absorbed through more profitable operations.

That is the result of extremely aggressive competition. Ever since Air Berlin collapsed, airlines started fighting for market share. They all know that this game is a battle royale. The fares of Ryanair, Easyjet and Wizzair simply cannot be profitable; the only goal is to be the least-lossmaking airline.
Once enough competitors leave, expect fares to jump.

Blerg wrote:

How come they didn't profit more from Monarch's demise or was the situation so bad that it barely helped? Who filled the void left by Monarch?

British Airways at Gatwick - they bought the Monarch slots.
At Manchester and Birmingham, Jet2 did best out of it. These were the main bases by the end.

caaardiff wrote:

marcogr12 wrote:

Will the TCX fleet be split up between TUI and Jet2 where the B757s and A330 are concerned and between the rest of the interested parties for their A321s? Given the scarcity of B737s because of the MAX situation and the constant demand for A321s, i think the A321s will be snapped up in a jiffy..Then again Condor's 753s could go to Icelandair to help it gap the bridge between the 752s and 763s or to UA/DL for transcon and Hawaii services

The 757's are -300 models, which are rare these days. Not sure how well that would fit with TUI/Jet2, especially as TUI would only want them for a short period of time and lease companies may want to lease them out for longer. TUI's own 757's were supposed to have be retired over coming months.

Virgin Atlantic may be able to pick up some A330's like they did from Air Berlin. Some of them are getting on a bit now though. 20+ years old.

Easyjet may be very interested in the A321's. Although likely be heavy demand to pick these up from lots of Airlines, especially for those Airlines that operate Airbus and Max. That will be up to the leasing companies.

Aren't the A330's Jet2 had leased from other Airlines? Do Jet2 provide full crew or just cabin crew?

Not sure how Jet2 or TUI UK would end up with the 757s as they're all with Condor now. Thomas Cook UK is an all-Airbus airline, just A321s and A330s.

Not sure how Jet2 or TUI UK would end up with the 757s as they're all with Condor now. Thomas Cook UK is an all-Airbus airline, just A321s and A330s.[/quote]

Isn't Condor part of the Thomas Cook group?

BestWestern wrote:

usxguy wrote:

Condor will probably get spun off and maintain its separate identity - so I doubt those planes are going anywhere. I think Condor may fare the best out of a TCX shut down.

The German short haul market is in a period of extreme over capacity. Even with Germania and Air Berlin leaving the market, Condor short haul capacity can be absorbed through more profitable operations.

Sad to say, but it seems, Lufthansa was interested in Condor and willed to buy them: was! It seems as TC had changed the mind and did not want to sell them any more, it has changed. LH is not any more interested in Condor, even worse, they are not any more interested, that Condor survives (this was different to Air Berlin, as LH had tried everything, that Air Berlin would survive, till the German Anti monopoly office, "Kartellamt" has ended it). They had few month ago already started, to send Eurowings jets on the same routes, Condor is flying. They will just replace Condor by their own airline/s, Eurowings (and some other of the LH group, but primary by Eurowings)..

T4thH wrote:

LH is not any more interested in Condor ..

I'm not sure thats true. The Condor brand alone is very powerful and appealing in Germany, probably more than Eurowings. So LH could now pick up it all for a bargain. If they did I think they'd continue to do something with the name. Eurowings hasn't exactly been a success, esp Longhaul

by738 wrote:

T4thH wrote:

LH is not any more interested in Condor ..

I'm not sure thats true. The Condor brand alone is very powerful and appealing in Germany, probably more than Eurowings. So LH could now pick up it all for a bargain. If they did I think they'd continue to do something with the name. Eurowings hasn't exactly been a success, esp Longhaul

LTU, LTL, Condor...these are names. and they are already gone (or will, I fear). The LH group has now perhaps 20 jets to much, they do not need the Condor jets and pretty sure, they will not get the brand name without the airline. When TC breaks away, it will be hard to fill up all these Condor jets.

Do not overestimate the value of the Brand name "Condor".

As I mentioned earlier, somebody on another forum is crew for TC and is flying Lgw-DLM-LGW tonight and has just checked in, maybe it’s not the doomsday scenario we al think as if I remember correctly Monarch cancelled all of their night flights

eagles94 wrote:

As I mentioned earlier, somebody on another forum is crew for TC and is flying Lgw-DLM-LGW tonight and has just checked in, maybe it’s not the doomsday scenario we al think as if I remember correctly Monarch cancelled all of their night flights

If they already know its not doomsday wouldn't they make an announcement so that future bookings will be made and deposits paid?

eagles94 wrote:

As I mentioned earlier, somebody on another forum is crew for TC and is flying Lgw-DLM-LGW tonight and has just checked in, maybe it’s not the doomsday scenario we al think as if I remember correctly Monarch cancelled all of their night flights

Maybe, but ZB had an aircraft boarding when they declared insolvency.

I remember the night before ZB went bust all they're prices went up by crazy amounts. Anyone seen this happen with MT?

eagles94 wrote:

As I mentioned earlier, somebody on another forum is crew for TC and is flying Lgw-DLM-LGW tonight and has just checked in, maybe it’s not the doomsday scenario we al think as if I remember correctly Monarch cancelled all of their night flights

Sadly, that flight was just cancelled. (Delayed till 17:30 tomorrow)

I hope that we are not seeing the end of a great company.

Apparently the LGW-DLM has been delayed until 17:30 tomorrow.

BestWestern wrote:

eagles94 wrote:

As I mentioned earlier, somebody on another forum is crew for TC and is flying Lgw-DLM-LGW tonight and has just checked in, maybe it’s not the doomsday scenario we al think as if I remember correctly Monarch cancelled all of their night flights

Sadly, that flight was just cancelled. (Delayed till 17:30 tomorrow)

I hope that we are not seeing the end of a great company.

Yep, he/she and their crew have been stood down.

eagles94 wrote:

As I mentioned earlier, somebody on another forum is crew for TC and is flying Lgw-DLM-LGW tonight and has just checked in, maybe it’s not the doomsday scenario we al think as if I remember correctly Monarch cancelled all of their night flights

Check with him again. TCX3W (MT508) and TCX8AG (MT509) flight plans both now cancelled.... ho-hum. All the TCX G- registered flights filed for tomorrow have disappeared and the only TCX ones are the LY-VE* frames. Something afoot behind the scenes?

CWL757 wrote:

Apparently the LGW-DLM has been delayed until 17:30 tomorrow.

I‘d call this a „soft cancellation“ in order not to have to announce that it’s over before the fleet has come home to their bases. All evidence we see lets me assume that the end has come.

Apparently the CAA have called it

Will the Avion Express ones continue tomorrow? They have a full chute flights filed for the full day with TCX IDs. Maybe the government/CAA will sign a contract to say that they'll pay them to continue service to get everyone home or will they cancel and ferry out back to Lithuania or wherever they are normally based?